modesty in quran
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I know the feeling, people automatically think hijabi = pious but it's just material. Also people are so picky about it, shes wearing pants oh no, shes wearing colours oh no fitnah this, fitnah that, disgrace, disgrace. it's never ending, in ways i think hijabi girls are objectified more than the non hijabi.
Nice try RA786, men must be modest besides if your married have girls, know believing women etc etc you'd need to pass on the message so def you'd need to worry or at least you'd have something to say )The forcing of it is bad definitely. Either way forcing on/ forcing off, everyone agrees with that.
Hahah Nothing Gets Passed you! )
Yeah I know, I used to Take off my shirt wheather to work or at the beach, but as me and my wife converted to Islam, We've decided its best to always cover these since the Quran gives us Both that Verse.
Allot of my friends Make fun of me and call me an "Extremist" because Me and her Wear Surf T-Shirts at the Beach instead of No shirt and a Bikini...
But they are actually pretty cool and Cozy... ) I dont care... Im cool like that. O0
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/neosportrashguard.jpg
(no thats not me) ;D -
Too bad so many traditional Muslims (including in my country) consider the headscarf as some kind of indicator to see how strong their political influence is.
So sad, isn't it? Also, there has been a movement to hand out free headscarves to women who don't wear it... I think they're aiming to raise money enough to obtain 10, 000 headscarves. If only the money they are raising is used to feed the poor... that can provide a decent meal for about 20, 000 people (. People sometimes get their priorities wrong...
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Hahah Nothing Gets Passed you!
Yeah I know, I used to Take off my shirt wheather to work or at the beach, but as me and my wife converted to Islam, We've decided its best to always cover these since the Quran gives us Both that Verse.
Allot of my friends Make fun of me and call me an "Extremist" because Me and her Wear Surf T-Shirts at the Beach instead of No shirt and a Bikini...
But they are actually pretty cool and Cozy... I dont care... Im cool like that. O0
It's always good to be sure
cool, they call them rash shirts here or rashie. You can get them in short sleeve also. Funny how they call you extremists anything to get you copying them. besides it plays 2-3 roles covers the fat, protects skin from the sun and reflects modest nature.
So sad, isn't it? Also, there has been a movement to hand out free headscarves to women who don't wear it... I think they're aiming to raise money enough to obtain 10, 000 headscarves. If only the money they are raising is used to feed the poor... that can provide a decent meal for about 20, 000 people . People sometimes get their priorities wrong...
Serious? well, there are activists of all kinds. at least people stand up for their rights. you never know maybe some of those people participate in different fundraisers of different types of support.. everyone does different things some do more
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I know the feeling, people automatically think hijabi = pious but it's just material. Also people are so picky about it, shes wearing pants oh no, shes wearing colours oh no fitnah this, fitnah that, disgrace, disgrace. it's never ending, in ways i think hijabi girls are objectified more than the non hijabi.
Nice try RA786, men must be modest besides if your married have girls, know believing women etc etc you'd need to pass on the message so def you'd need to worry or at least you'd have something to say )The forcing of it is bad definitely. Either way forcing on/ forcing off, everyone agrees with that.
That automatic stereotype of hijabi = pious does make me frustrated, but oh well. There are some people in my closest in-law family that I've heard the first question they ask of a Muslim girl is "is she covered".
Yes that was something I think about, if I do someday wear hijab then even if I show a tiny bit of arm or wear jeans or something I'll be slammed. -
That automatic stereotype of hijabi = pious does make me frustrated, but oh well. There are some people in my closest in-law family that I've heard the first question they ask of a Muslim girl is "is she covered".
Yes that was something I think about, if I do someday wear hijab then even if I show a tiny bit of arm or wear jeans or something I'll be slammed.my family do the same "is she covered?" it's like a check list to see how good she is..
It frustrates me too though you gotta think of it from their perspective. They think it's a big deal, they think it's an obligation. being in a western country and doing it is like WOW look at that. so they associate it with being pious though we know a material isn't everything. about being slammed, she gets slammed from the non muslims and from the muslims it's like..why bother?
anyway regardless of all that it's a cultural reflection of modesty and i guess it does it's purpose.
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You can Wear Hijab Cover your entire Face and Body...and still be the Biggest Un-pious person in the world...
It is not only a Material "Physical" thing, but Spiritual as well.
A Balance of the two.Just because she Covers up doesn't make her the Best wife.
Thats what they should Realize.
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Its so true, the university I attend is full of girls who wear a head scarf but really really revealing outfits aswell which is confusing to me and they are constantly flirting with guys and fighting with each other over guys and gossip and yet ill hear them make nast comments on others who show hair!!!!
We also have a few girls who dress in black jilbab and scarf and cover their face. Being aquainted with a number of them im shocked at how they treat/speak about others. (not all the girls behave like this im just making a point about those who are)
On the other hand I think you should have the choice and do know wonderful people inside and out, who wear hijab and dont judge those who dont....
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You can Wear Hijab Cover your entire Face and Body...and still be the Biggest Un-pious person in the world...
It is not only a Material "Physical" thing, but Spiritual as well.
A Balance of the two.Just because she Covers up doesn't make her the Best wife.
Thats what they should Realize.
You may also be surprised to see that underneath those coverings that often look like a black plastic garbage bag are genuine expensive jewelries, signature clothes, accessories and bags( source)
Will religious women wear outrageous stilletos so they can't walk in them, showing she won't leave her husband and her god - a type of self inflicted hobbling and a sign of her religious devotion?
But are all of them are pious nope the truth is that most of them are not wearing that because it is religious. Sorryeat
But this hadith is funny ;D
"A woman is like a private part. When she goes out the devil casts a glance at her"Al-Hadis, trans. Al-Haj Maulana Fazlul Karim, vol. 2, p. 692, from Mishkat al-Masabih, by Waliuddin Abu Abdullah Mahmud Tabrizi
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being in a western country and doing it is like WOW look at that. so they associate it with being pious though we know a material isn't everything.
Just want to comment on the statement... I live in a Western country and I sometimes wear the headscarf. Anyway, I actually get more guys approaching me and trying to hit on me when I wear the headscarf than when I don't. Maybe it's just that they are trying to get a 'pious' woman but it makes me feel that the whole argument that the headscarf protects women from being harassed is not necessarily true (in my case that is) .
Its so true, the university I attend is full of girls who wear a head scarf but really really revealing outfits aswell which is confusing to me and they are constantly flirting with guys and fighting with each other over guys and gossip and yet ill hear them make nast comments on others who show hair!!!!
It reminds me of several occasions where I have weird conversation with some of my friends who wear the headscarves. Oh boy, I was surprised to know what things that ran through their minds; they must be really frustrated .
In the country where I came from, headscarf is more like fashion statement and its meaning is reduced to a means to covering one head, rather than a means to guard their chastity. I mean really, what's the point of wearing a head-scarf adorned with big eye-catching ribbons/flowers, tucked inside your outer garment while wearing tight pants and extremely thick make-up. But I fully respect those who wear the headscarves because they do want to wear them and act modestly according to how they dress .
You may also be surprised to see that underneath those coverings that often look like a black plastic garbage bag are genuine expensive jewelries, signature clothes, accessories and bags( source)
That's the sad part. The 'hijab' or 'Islamic clothing' industry is getting a lot of money from it. I remember going to an Islamic Clothing shop and the price tag attached is ridiculous! A jilbab/long dress costs 5x more than the cost of a separate long sleeve + skirt nope. And that's what they call modesty? Modesty is not only about how you appear, but also how you act and how you spend your money.
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I Feel so sorry for you My sisters in this deen.
Whether you Believe it or not...This Is the age of the So-called "dajjal".
dajjal meaning the great deceiver, the "False" the "Liar" and Evil "System".
I feel today this is very true. There are many Negative Paradoxes in which you women are in because of this Evil System.
The Problem is that...Many Traditionalist Muslims Lack the understanding that You dont have to be Extreamist in forcing Women to Wear "Hijab"...and that doesnt make her a Pious Woman. Hijab Doesnt End with Clothing. It Continues on to Manner, Behavior, Thought, and Action.
Also, the other side...You have many "Trendy Westernized Muslims" who feel the need to Not only Take off Hijab, But Get totally butt-naked and dress WORSE THAN THE KAFFIRS ( &! Yes, I have seen some... Some of these so-called "Muslims" take it to the extream of being totally "Western" and Lose all Moral and Modest teachings/Principals.
No two Extremes are good. Dress Modest. But BE Modest. Be yourself. Be you. Know Yourself....and Know Allah.
Both the "Traditionalist Muslims" and the Newly Westernizes Micky Mouse Muslims have lacked in that Department.
May Allah Protect us from them both. ;D
I know this may be a little fftopic but I have wrote a small Presentation on "Feminism" on Another Muslim-Forum.
You can look at it here if you like. It contains Pictures, Video, and a lil some some.
RA786- the Complex Issue of Feminism- http//www.wakeupproject.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7687
and RA786-A Very Important Problem in Islam http//www.wakeupproject.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8393
Discussion/Debate on Hijab -Cover my Face. http//www.wakeupproject.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8626
Salam/Shalom/Peace
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May be if men did not spend so much effort and energy in dressing and undressing women, women would not need to think so much about dressing and undressing. This seems to be an unending subject where it is as if the destiny of humanity is being decided, when it is something so simple that men do it all the time and do not make an issue of it. When is this explotiation of women for the sake of burdening them unwarrantedly with requirements that lack foundation and common sense going to stop?
Just recommend modesty and common sense for all and the job is done. And let every person mind his or her own morals and modesty. Adn of course stop making self serving use of the Quran to make it say the opposite of what it says. The morals of the men ARE NOT the departement of women. The morals of every person are the departmen of that person, man or woman.
Salaam
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May be if men did not spend so much effort and energy in dressing and undressing women, women would not need to think so much about dressing and undressing. This seems to be an unending subject where it is as if the destiny of humanity is being decided, when it is something so simple that men do it all the time and do not make an issue of it. When is this explotiation of women for the sake of burdening them unwarrantedly with requirements that lack foundation and common sense going to stop?
Just recommend modesty and common sense for all and the job is done. And let every person mind his or her own morals and modesty. Adn of course stop making self serving use of the Quran to make it say the opposite of what it says. The morals of the men ARE NOT the departement of women. The morals of every person are the departmen of that person, man or woman.
Salaam
Wow huruf that is so sexist. Men don?t walk around dressing and undressing women, that?s for sure. Just look at the fashion industry or actresses who get naked out of their own free will. Same with pornography.
Common sense ain?t so common because it ain?t innate.
People use the Quran as they know it so when they make claims it?s either because so and so said or because of some understanding they have gathered.
Modesty has requirements the whole point of this is trying to understand what they are.
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For those who want to be unmodest and for those who value lack of modesty verbal dressing and undressing of women done by men is completely redundant. For those who mean to be modest verbal dressing and undressing of women done by men is completely redundant. To preach to the convinced is not much of a feat, unless you want to convince somebody that they must be more than modest or more modest than
And both ways it seems that it is always women who are ordered to to dress or undress. It is insane. Just let them be.
Salaam
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I think it is an Order.
There has to be Order.
The shaytan is the "Author of Chaos". remember that.
Women Must Cover their Breasts and their "Sexual Organ", and what is near to those area's. (thighs and cleavage/Navel).
We live in a messed up world. A World of Much Paradox.
If The Goal of the shyatan, Dajjal, or NWO, or whatever you would like to call it...(i.e. Negative Influence) is to Destroy the family structure and Connection to Allah and what is Holy.
One of the easiest ways to do this, is to Convince the "Slaves" that Slavery is acceptable and in fact much more benefiting to them.
Pornography and Prostitution in the western world...(my Area), has been made appealing for young girls. The Elite have Successfully Convinced Women that it is a Legitimate and Honorable Profession and is a Human Right. They have Successfully, Convinced them that As a Feminist, You should be allowed to willfully Be "Objectified".
And to be honest, it is to a degree, it is True. BUT
We must understand the Core of Feminism, and its Original Intention. Feminism's Original Goal was Equal human rights for Strong women based on "MORALS and PRINCIPALS"..... Again... "MORALS"....
Original Feminists Faught against Sexploitation and Sexualization of Women. They Faught to be Modest, and respected for their Intellect NOT for their Simple Physical Sex Organs.[/color
One must then ask himself. How does a Movement based on Morals and Genuine Principals get turned 360'degress around to being a Movment now about Sex rights that Purposely willfully objectify yourselves?
You see, For a chauvinistic sexualized Male...It works out Perfectly. It means not only is it Okay to engage in female Prostate activities and Pornography, BUT...Now WOMEN are "Cool with it".
but then we find, these Chauvinistic Sexualized males are Too victims of this sinister plan. They (Males) are Conditioned to be Overly Obsessed with Sex and Non-misogynistic things...They are Conditioned to submit to Immoral sexual lustful things. They are Conditioned to Submit to this Sexualized system.
Then in turn, The women who are Also Conditioned, are therefore given to these men easily.
This is a VERY deeply rooted problem, with MANY complications and Many Branches. It would take a long time to explain thoroughly and Does consist of many Parts dealing with the "Elite" the shaytan, and the "Dajjalic system". It is Very very Deep.
But My point is, If we are to make Progress in our Society as Muslims... (Meaning.... Children of Adam. Human beings who serve Allah. Dependents of the One who Knew ALL of the Angles Names!.....)....we as Muslims need to guard our Modesty.
And about this Whole..."women dont need to be forced to cover up"...
I am sorry. I am not very lenient in that Aspect.
I think ALL MEN AND WOMEN NEED (Forced) to Cover their Private parts. If they want to live in a Progressive Modern "Good Society"...They need to cover by Law. Otherwise...They can move to the middle of nowhere and make their own nudist camp if thats what they want. There must be some Order. -
Its so true, the university I attend is full of girls who wear a head scarf but really really revealing outfits aswell which is confusing to me and they are constantly flirting with guys and fighting with each other over guys and gossip and yet ill hear them make nast comments on others who show hair!!!!
We also have a few girls who dress in black jilbab and scarf and cover their face. Being aquainted with a number of them im shocked at how they treat/speak about others. (not all the girls behave like this im just making a point about those who are)
On the other hand I think you should have the choice and do know wonderful people inside and out, who wear hijab and dont judge those who dont....
Wow that sounds alot like where i'm from (uk)
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I am in the UK ......I wonder if this is typical of most unis? I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who was saying she had felt humiliated by the comments of a certain girl who wears headscarf and jilbab (always in black as she does not agree with colourful displays) I felt sad for her and had only been speaking to another girl in the same year who has also had issues with the girl making nasty comments. Listening to both girls stories it occured to me that the girl who is giving the other two hassle clearly feels superior.
I wonder if this girl realises that wearing hijab is her choice and if she even realises that she has adopted this air of superiority and tendency to be intimidating to others which is upsetting her sisters?
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I am in the UK ......I wonder if this is typical of most unis? I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who was saying she had felt humiliated by the comments of a certain girl who wears headscarf and jilbab (always in black as she does not agree with colourful displays) I felt sad for her and had only been speaking to another girl in the same year who has also had issues with the girl making nasty comments. Listening to both girls stories it occured to me that the girl who is giving the other two hassle clearly feels superior.
I wonder if this girl realises that wearing hijab is her choice and if she even realises that she has adopted this air of superiority and tendency to be intimidating to others which is upsetting her sisters?
I wonder whether people who do that, in this case wanting to impose hiyab and jilbab or to dminish those who do not wear them, whether they are really convinced that this is the right thing. If they are, why do they need to make other people corroborate that that is the right thing to do or do the same? I tmay also be that they have a craving to order others around and "being superior" gives them the needed motive to impose on others. At any rate, not very satisfied people seems to me.
Salam
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But My point is, If we are to make Progress in our Society as Muslims... (Meaning.... Children of Adam. Human beings who serve Allah. Dependents of the One who Knew ALL of the Angles Names!.....)....we as Muslims need to guard our Modesty.
And about this Whole..."women dont need to be forced to cover up"...
I am sorry. I am not very lenient in that Aspect.
I think ALL MEN AND WOMEN NEED (Forced) to Cover their Private parts. If they want to live in a Progressive Modern "Good Society"...They need to cover by Law. Otherwise...They can move to the middle of nowhere and make their own nudist camp if thats what they want. There must be some Order.Well I'm all for covering my breasts/my cleavage, lengthening my garments and guarding my private parts. Of course I don't want to walk around wearing tank top and mini skirt or stroll at the beach wearing bikini, I'll wear what I deem modest in the area where I live in (meaning, I don't dress to sexually attract men on purpose).
Covering up my private parts and breasts? Yes. Covering up every inch of my body? No.