A Challenge to all Arab Linguists arround the Globe
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Peace,
So your point in posting all that was what? I never said in any of that that nisaa' does not mean 'women' and I never contradicted myself. So what was your point in posting all that. I did decide on what I wanted to say and i said it. So why is all of that not crystal clear for you. Why are you confused by what I have been saying to the point of thinking that I said that nisaa' does not mean women or that I am not clear on the Quraysh's use of hamza. The word 'lack' does not mean 'complete omission'.
In that same passage where I say I agree with you about the lack of hamza's (I should have said lack of pronunciation of hamza's and not lack of hamza's which might be what i confusing you) I also said
But as far as I know there was not an absolute omission of all hamzas. There was actually a consistent pattern to this from what I understood, a pattern that the Quraysh as children intuitively learned from older Quraysh about which hamzas would be omitted in the Quraysh dialect and how.
So again why are you not understanding what I am saying, and posting what I have said as if it is some sort of proof against me?
Since there is no body speaking that language anymore, Bro.
ON this I can somewhat agree. But those who learn tajweed and recite the Quran, hadeeths and du'as with this sort of tajweed ARE still speaking this language. Tajweed does not mean reciting the Quran well, it means speaking Classical Arabic well, like the original Arabs around and during the time of the prophet (God bless him). And there when you open up Wright, Lane, other lexicons, grammatical books (zamakhshari and sibawayah) and you learn tajweed you are learning the various pronunciations of Old Classical Arabic of that time. So no, it is no longer spoken as a native tongue and only remnants of of it (large and small) remain in Modern Standard Arabic (a large remnant), and all of the modern 'arabic' dialects. But the knowledge has not been lost, it has just been shelved away by most of us (Muslms and modern 'Arabs', and hence obscured. Relegated to books that few people are willing to read or have ever heard of.
And this is why so many Muslims (including Quranists) understand the Quran so poorly.
Godbless,
Anwar -
I am a little confused now. But please pardom me.
As I am understanding, it is as follows, regarding Nissa.Is Brother Badar suggesting that above word does not mean women as on the previous page, and as per his explanation on the last page?
Is Brother Anwar suggesting that Nissa on the previous page means women?Please correct me if I have confused it more.
But then how do I explain the following
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000039.pdf
Salam
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Peace,
Nisaa' means women. Always has and always will. I was discussing the grammatical form of the word, that was it. I have always believed the word to mean women AND/OR the meaning of the verbal noun of the 3rd measure of root noon, seen, waw/ya/alif.
But I have NEVER said that it does not mean 'women'. It DOES mean women. One more time, Nisaa' means women. I was just discussing the peculiar grammatical form of the word.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace to all. Here is my question in pure learning spirit and not trying to point out mistakes in Qur?an. AlrRiba commonly understood or misunderstood as ?interest?/usury. My question is. How this word should be spelled in Arabic? One finds written in Qur?an as (from www.openburhan.com site), (in, Holy Quran by Taj company LTD. English Translation by Pickthall and Urdu by Maulana Fatheh Mohhammed Jallendhri certified by Hafiz Abdul Rauf, no year of publication given). Finally, Lane says it is also or with lots of references (Lane part 3 page 1023).
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000189.pdf
Very sincerely,
Badar -
Peace,
It should be spelled as Lane says. Both ways. I would venture to even say that an alif maqsoorah could be used, unconventional but not wrong. Wright explain this phenomenon of spelling where it occurs with zakat, salat and other words.
Godbless,
Anwar -
So no one is able to find the root for this word so far. Can we accept the truth that we do not understand a bit of message due lack of knowledge of said language? Let us take this first step, in order to have the doors opened from our Rabb, towards enhance understanding of the message. In addition, let us join hands to establish a team of people sincerely devoted to this cause.
Badar
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Peace,
I didn't answer this question because I believed that you would be able to anticipate my answer. I also believe that you were capable of figuring out the root on your own. Was I incorrect? Or is it that you have some sort of alternative agenda? Why don't you answer your own question for all to see. Honestly I think you can answer your own question.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
I didn't answer this question because I believed that you would be able to anticipate my answer. I also believe that you were capable of figuring out the root on your own. Was I incorrect? Or is it that you have some sort of alternative agenda? Why don't you answer your own question for all to see. Honestly I think you can answer your own question.
Godbless,
AnwarHonestly, your belief is correct. I want people who are wasting their energies in vain argumentation; lasting numerous pages on this very forum, to realize to get the basis in order first. Spend energy where it could and would produce some fruit. In due course, I shall bring up the real root and meanings as well. However, in the meantime people should try to spend some energy on something fruitful. Do not you think, this is not an unreasonable request?
May Rabb bless all.
Badar
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Dear all, I am working on this compound from AlKitab. . This has been repeated several times. Let me give you, my take on it so far. This is to invite people for sake of enhancement of mutual knowledge.
problematic is part in red. This is a three letter word. However, it can not be from a root. This is due to jezm/sukoon on Haa. Hence Alif here is likely Hamza tul Wasal, due Haa being Sakiin for easy of reading. Hence, this Alif would not contribute any thing to meanings of word. This leaves us only with . Please comment.
May Rabb bless all.
Badar
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Your conclusions are wrong. Hamzatul-wasl or alif-al-wasl are not prosthetic. They belong to the word. If you cannot find alif, haa and lam in the dicitonary you need to get another dictionary and look a little harder because it is in there.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Dear all, I am working on this compound from AlKitab. . This has been repeated several times. Let me give you, my take on it so far. This is to invite people for sake of enhancement of mutual knowledge.
problematic is part in red. This is a three letter word. However, it can not be from a root. This is due to jezm/sukoon on Haa. Hence Alif here is likely Hamza tul Wasal, due Haa being Sakiin for easy of reading. Hence, this Alif would not contribute any thing to meanings of word. This leaves us only with . Please comment.
May Rabb bless all.
Badar
Ahli kitab mean the torah or the injeel owners.
The words ahli also used on verse425 to describe about slave owner
and on 1225 on the same mean. -
Your conclusions are wrong. Hamzatul-wasl or alif-al-wasl are not prosthetic. They belong to the word. If you cannot find alif, haa and lam in the dicitonary you need to get another dictionary and look a little harder because it is in there.
Godbless,
AnwarThanks and peace, let us talk about more well know case and word. For example and . Please see referance below from Wright if does not open go to page 19 and Lane's page. Which last time you thought was still authentic referances.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000159.pdf
http//www.ghazali.org/arabic/WrightArabicGrammarVol1.pdfPeace
Badar
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Ism and ahl are different. Ism is known to be a special case. However what applies to ism does not apply to ahl. This can be seen more in the verbs that they are associated with. ism is associated with samaa and ahl with ahala. Also you should understand that there are many strange occurrences in Arabic (they are however a minority in the language) that are associated with and can be traced back to archaic verbal forms or archaic known forms. Sometimes even loan words.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Thanks again and peace. How about ? When one says . This Alif disappears again. If it were not Alif of ease of pronunciation i.e., Alif required at the beginning of words starting with two consonants and first being sakin; which could not be pronounced in Arabic without adding Alif or Hamza tul wasal. It would not disappear like it does with out altering the meanings of the words. The meanings still remains the same, with or without Alif. It is not rare a phenomenon; in fact it is the rule and there are so many other words as an example. E.H. Palmer makes it adundantly clear in his book of Arabic Grammar.
Peace.
Badar
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Ism and ahl are different. Ism is known to be a special case. However what applies to ism does not apply to ahl. This can be seen more in the verbs that they are associated with. ism is associated with samaa and ahl with ahala. Also you should understand that there are many strange occurrences in Arabic (they are however a minority in the language) that are associated with and can be traced back to archaic verbal forms or archaic known forms. Sometimes even loan words.
Godbless,
AnwarIf Im not mistaken ism mean is name. Have a look at asma ulhusna (good name, ismi-hasan).
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Peace,
Farabi, don't waste your time with these simplicities. I and everyone involved in this conversation knows that. Badar, the alif is a funny creature. In many cases when it follows a vowel from a previous word or pronunciation it will be swallowed up. I believe this is part of the rules of idgham. It happens When you say muhammad ibn abdullah it is pronounced muhammadinibni 'abdillaahi. The noon on the nunation is followed by a kasrah which is is why the alif is swallowed up. This happens in the case of alif maddah and in other cases. It has just become the custom to drop the alif out of the text. I'm sure this has a name as well but this is the basic concept. Before being quick to respond back think about what I said. Yes this phenomena has a name and I am not giving the name here, but I am explaining what happens and why. Please understand this, depsite the fact that I have not given a categorized name for it.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
Farabi, don't waste your time with these simplicities. I and everyone involved in this conversation knows that. Badar, the alif is a funny creature. In many cases when it follows a vowel from a previous word or pronunciation it will be swallowed up. I believe this is part of the rules of idgham. It happens When you say muhammad ibn abdullah it is pronounced muhammadinibni 'abdillaahi. The noon on the nunation is followed by a kasrah which is is why the alif is swallowed up. This happens in the case of alif maddah and in other cases. It has just become the custom to drop the alif out of the text. I'm sure this has a name as well but this is the basic concept. Before being quick to respond back think about what I said. Yes this phenomena has a name and I am not giving the name here, but I am explaining what happens and why. Please understand this, depsite the fact that I have not given a categorized name for it.
Godbless,
AnwarSo now please tell then in our word of intrest. It has nun before it. . I agree alif has lots of purposes and uses. Why is this alif here for? If this is not a hamza til wasl.
Badar