Defining Shirk(polytheism) and its theological concepts
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Polytheism believes in a metadivine realm, an existince prior to the existence of the gods(water, smoke, fire, fate etc) that the gods were under the domain of and under the decree of and under the dependence of. This is the supreme and ultimate realm and it transcends the deities who are under the laws and power of this metadivine realm. So the gods are limited, there is no absolute divine will and authority. They are not all knowing and all wise since this medadivine realm which is often mysterious and all too powerfull for the gods. The gods can also be limited by the activities of other gods, spirits or natural forces.
Polytheism relies on mytholgy, the stories of the gods. The gods have a begining where they are born and can die and even re-born. Theogony(the stories of the birth of the gods) is a common concept among paganism. Usually the metadivine realm is where the gods are born or emerge and usually this is where all life forms and natural existence came into existence.
Polytheism therefore has a fluid boundary between the divine, human and natural world since they all emerge from the same primordial(before existence) material, the metadivine realm that was in existence before everything. The gods are like exaggerated human beings. Therefore gods and nature are very similar and intertwine with one another such as the god of fire or the god of fertility or war or the god of the ocean or moon etc. So not much difference between the worshiping of god or the worshiping of nature. Hence gods can form or become humans and vice versa since there is a commonality between the gods and nature and humans. Often after death certain humans can become gods and some gods can becomee humans or spirits and so on. There is a fluid relationship between them.
Divine power according to paganism is conceived on material things usually the stuff the primordial existence is made of. Power can thus be attained by manipulating these material things connected to the metadivine realm such as fire, smoke, water etc. These divine powers can be attained through magic or rituals and humans can tap into these divine powers. This power can then be used to circumvent the gods and force them to do what they otherwise wouldn't do. So being able to manipulate these natural or material forces can influence the behavior of the gods since the gods themselves are under the domain of these primordial forces. These powers of manipulation can also protect humans from the gods and the evil spirits etc. Its the metadivine realm that contains the ultimate power and the gods can be used as a medium in some cases to tap into the metadivine realm. Blood, flesh and water and all this material forces that have some connection with the metadivine realm can be used and manipulated to influence the gods and seek protection from harm.
Pagan rituals and festivals often are reenactments of the death or birth of the gods or battles and major events in the life of the gods. This will bring about the powers of the gods and can be used to continue the birth and fertility of life and bring about victories in battles and so on. These reenactments were a way to continue the divine powers and favors.
Since the primordial forces(metadivine realm) is what everything, including the gods, emerge from, the primordial forces are resposnsible for all good and bad. So there are good gods and evil gods that often battle one another and interact with one another. Death and disease are confined to these evil spirits who are like sibblings of the good gods. Humans can only rely on magic and rituals to reach the powers of the metadivine to protect them against these evil gods and spirits. Once again the need to circumvent these gods and spirits by connecting with the metadivine where all powers finnaly rests.
As far as monotheism, well you know that better than I do.
That God is absolute, all knowing, a force of only good, and is supreme over all others and things and is complete distinct from nature and eternal and was always is. Everything fall under His will and nature is an expression of His will and there is no blurring between God, nature and man. God is completely distinct yet in full command.
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7359195828637989025&ei=TCMOS-3xIYH8wQPSloz0Aw&q=old+testament&hl=en&view=1&dur=3#
Of course this is an academic view point but it does give us an understanding of the theological logic and concepts of polytheism which is based primarily on the limitation of the Divine.
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The gods were basically invention of human fantasy to explain things which were unexplainable during that time.
I've seen in many occurrences, even in current / modern period, that human in despair tends to believe anything, including ridiculous stories and myth, as long as it offers them hope.Just like what King Julian did in Madagascar 2..
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUCENHqr7b4"The gods eat my sacrifice, they're grateful, they give me some of their water, and I give it to you".
"Quick, to the volcano, before we all come to our senses!"
-- King Julian The Lemurrotfl man.... those who wrote Madagascar 2 lines are genius!
Salam / Peace
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Salaam,
false belief is a universal constant for humanity, I'm sure the volcano God worshipers laugh at the sun Worships, just as the Christian God worshipers laugh at the Muslim God worshipers,and vice-versa.
I have written a definition of the concept of Shirk if anyone is interested, the link below
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/60/90/
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Polytheism believes in a metadivine realm, an existince prior to the existence of the gods(water, smoke, fire, fate etc) that the gods were under the domain of and under the decree of and under the dependence of. This is the supreme and ultimate realm and it transcends the deities who are under the laws and power of this metadivine realm. So the gods are limited, there is no absolute divine will and authority. They are not all knowing and all wise since this medadivine realm which is often mysterious and all too powerfull for the gods. The gods can also be limited by the activities of other gods, spirits or natural forces.
Polytheism relies on mytholgy, the stories of the gods. The gods have a begining where they are born and can die and even re-born. Theogony(the stories of the birth of the gods) is a common concept among paganism. Usually the metadivine realm is where the gods are born or emerge and usually this is where all life forms and natural existence came into existence.
Polytheism therefore has a fluid boundary between the divine, human and natural world since they all emerge from the same primordial(before existence) material, the metadivine realm that was in existence before everything. The gods are like exaggerated human beings. Therefore gods and nature are very similar and intertwine with one another such as the god of fire or the god of fertility or war or the god of the ocean or moon etc. So not much difference between the worshiping of god or the worshiping of nature. Hence gods can form or become humans and vice versa since there is a commonality between the gods and nature and humans. Often after death certain humans can become gods and some gods can becomee humans or spirits and so on. There is a fluid relationship between them.
Divine power according to paganism is conceived on material things usually the stuff the primordial existence is made of. Power can thus be attained by manipulating these material things connected to the metadivine realm such as fire, smoke, water etc. These divine powers can be attained through magic or rituals and humans can tap into these divine powers. This power can then be used to circumvent the gods and force them to do what they otherwise wouldn't do. So being able to manipulate these natural or material forces can influence the behavior of the gods since the gods themselves are under the domain of these primordial forces. These powers of manipulation can also protect humans from the gods and the evil spirits etc. Its the metadivine realm that contains the ultimate power and the gods can be used as a medium in some cases to tap into the metadivine realm. Blood, flesh and water and all this material forces that have some connection with the metadivine realm can be used and manipulated to influence the gods and seek protection from harm.
Pagan rituals and festivals often are reenactments of the death or birth of the gods or battles and major events in the life of the gods. This will bring about the powers of the gods and can be used to continue the birth and fertility of life and bring about victories in battles and so on. These reenactments were a way to continue the divine powers and favors.
Since the primordial forces(metadivine realm) is what everything, including the gods, emerge from, the primordial forces are resposnsible for all good and bad. So there are good gods and evil gods that often battle one another and interact with one another. Death and disease are confined to these evil spirits who are like sibblings of the good gods. Humans can only rely on magic and rituals to reach the powers of the metadivine to protect them against these evil gods and spirits. Once again the need to circumvent these gods and spirits by connecting with the metadivine where all powers finnaly rests.
As far as monotheism, well you know that better than I do.
That God is absolute, all knowing, a force of only good, and is supreme over all others and things and is complete distinct from nature and eternal and was always is. Everything fall under His will and nature is an expression of His will and there is no blurring between God, nature and man. God is completely distinct yet in full command.
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7359195828637989025&ei=TCMOS-3xIYH8wQPSloz0Aw&q=old+testament&hl=en&view=1&dur=3#
Of course this is an academic view point but it does give us an understanding of the theological logic and concepts of polytheism which is based primarily on the limitation of the Divine.
Great Article! bravo
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Salaam,
false belief is a universal constant for humanity, I'm sure the volcano God worshipers laugh at the sun Worships, just as the Christian God worshipers laugh at the Muslim God worshipers,and vice-versa.
While actually "Christian God" and "Muslim God" is actually the same God.
One of the key drivers which shapes "Polytheisms" is the 'ego' of the priestly class.
They need to invent gods, as each of the specific god shall drive the need of its own specific priests, temples and rites.Thus the debates, among those group of priests will then be 'whose god is better'.
The debate which is common even today between "Islam Priest" and "Christian Priest".
The debate which also usually resulted in conflicts.The 'polytheists' folks make an efforts to reconcile those priestly conflict by establishing 'power sharing among gods (and its priest)'.
Thus born the god of war, the god of love, the god of harvest, the water god, the volcano god, the sea god etc...
All had their own specific priests, temples and rites..Salam / Peace
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Salaam Jafar,
that's a strange perspective for a Muslim, to believe Allah could be a human being as the Christian do, I can only assume you must be a Christian, in which case, you are mistaken, as a true Muslim could never conceive of Allah as having a son, nor a division, as the foundation of Islam is the utter unity of all, the personification of the Christians is again in direct opposition to the concept of Allah, they view a God in the sky, a force controlling the universe from the outside, and so they must worship and pray to supplicate the God in the sky, who they envision as having a human form, again in opposition to the concepts of the Qur'an.
Allah manifests all reality instant by instant from the inside out, and so is closer than your jugular vein.
Islam is not a religion, it is a Deen, a guide and code of conduct, a way to exist, it does not require the Christian, Zoroastrian, Jewish, implanted rituals and religious ignorance, and it also expressly rejects priests, monks, imams, mullahs, ayatollah etc. as the most Usurious of all men, for they will not only take all your wealth, but through the confusion they spread, will steal any hope of correct belief, so any hope of success.
Therefore to acknowledge a priestly class in existence within Islam condemns that version of Islam as completely against the Qur'an, so in fact it is a form of Christianity not a form of Islam, the Christian Muslims you might say.
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Salam oops sorry.. Shalom Abdnun
And thank you... you're the first person who said that I'm a christian..
I'm being used to be called; murtaad, kuffur, bid'ah, Yehudi/jews, mutazillites...
But christian?? well this is my first time.. thank you for that...Anyway, how's that matter who the heck I am?
Christianity, as also Islamism and also Hinduism or other sectarion groups is not a 'unified religion / sects'.
There are thousands of sects within Christianism, and speaking about God concepts in Christianity is a very very complex matter..But anyway to simplify and put it in the context of this discussion..
When the christians refer to an entity they called "Father", is actually the same entity which the jews called "Adonai" or the arabs called "Allah".You say that "priestly" class is not in existence within Islam?
Come on, I'm a very religious (read sectarian) sunni for approximately the first 20 years of my life!
Hv you heard about the "Ulema waratsatul anbiya" dogma?Salam oops sorry Shalom / Peace
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Salamun alaikum,
Nice words Jafar...
Thus the debates, among those group of priests will then be 'whose god is better'.
The debate which is common even today between "Islam Priest" and "Christian Priest".
The debate which also usually resulted in conflicts.This 'whose god is better' is clearly evidenced by people choosing any one of the following (substitute any of the following for g-o-d)
- Prophet e.g. Muhammad (S) over Isa (S)
- Pir/ Shaykh e.g. Abdul Qadir Jilani or Ilyas Attar Qadri
- Books e.g. Fatuwa-e-Rizvya or Sahih x vs Sahih y
- Naatkhawans (singers) e.g. Owais Raza Qadri vs Syed Chishti
- Sufi Tariqa e.g. Naqshbandi vs Chishti
- Madhab e.g. Hanafi vs Shafee
- Taqleed vs non-taqleed (blind following)
- Scripture e.g. Quran vs Bible
The forum I got banned from (oh here you go again you groan!) had these sorts of conflicts all the time. Theres a post on there at the moment talking about how the person responsible for the Brelwis believed that the universe revolved around the sun, and that his followers MUST believe him to be infallible, the guy couldn't make a mistake, I mean at the age of 6 he issued his first fatwa and was promptly accepted as the greatest muslim revivalist that ever lived! Yet, some can't see that the heliocentric model has been proven correct...
At the end of the day it all depends upon what you can rationalise (if there is such a thing for some). The last one (point 8 ) is the most interesting one, because scripture is scripture. The Quran is my Criterion hence I personally place it above other books and it is logical to say so, but it can be a slippery slope if I start the better-than-debate, much rather all the true scriptures have the same essential beliefs so they are all on a par in that level, but the Quran=Criterion still places it above those. Must not make scripture my god... It's the tool I keep telling myself.
Peace
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Salaam Jafar,
well that is my point, they are in fact not referring to Allah, I myself would hate to be a Christianised Muslim, but you seem pleased, what you call Islam in it Christianised, Zoroastrianised manifestation, is not the Qur'anic Islam.
If you want to consider the Qur'anic concepts of Allah you should read, 'God and Allah' on my website.
I say the priestly class could never be existent within Islam, only in a religion to prevent Islam from existing, a Christianised Islam, so in effect not Islam at all.
As for whose God is better, the foundation of Islam is There is No God.
Until this simple concept is again understood Islam will continue to be a powerless and illusive ghost, a world driven deeper and deeper into the death cults of Christianity and Judaism, as the name of Islam is shamed by the religious using its title while removing truth, reason and security from the lives of humanity.