Who is responsible, the pig farmer or the pork eater?
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Hello.
The pork eater may be at fault too. It is basically supply and demand. Just like they say,"when the buying stops the killings stop too". (WWF-the animal protection)There are so many things that we do not buy or consume..even though we can afford them...
peace...
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Hello.
The pork eater may be at fault too. It is basically supply and demand. Just like they say,"when the buying stops the killings stop too". (WWF-the animal protection)There are so many things that we do not buy or consume..even though we can afford them...
peace...
A Revolution like this has to be Realistic and Rational.
People cant just Simply STOP BUYING Products that Support Israel or Imperialism or Evilness.
People cant just Simply STOP BUYING Products that are daily Necessities...
People cant just Simply START Buying Expensive Products that are Organic, Good, and Wholesome.There needs to be an Established Meeting place, an Institution if you will, That would Provide these things.
A Collective or Like-minded individuals.Its Like...a bunch of People Stuck in the Bottom of a Pit. Alone...They cant get out.
But If One Bends over, Another on top of him, then another on top of him, They can Act as a Ladder and get the others Out of the Pit and on the Surface.
Then the Ones on the Surface can then Help the rest out...Similar to Ants and how they form a Ant Ladder.What I mean by this ...is...
Perhaps A Muslim Trade Site where Muslims can Post their goods and trade with each other.
If there is a Muslim Electrician, He can provide his services to his Community, Then the other Muslim who makes Shoes...will provide his good to him.Whats Ironic is that Muslims Now Dont see each other as Brothers...They see Nations and Citizens of those Nations Instead.
Wile the Masons, are the Ones who Build Brotherhood, and Will actually Unite together to Help one another in Business,Politics,and Necessities.What ever happened to Fisabilillah?
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There is one problem I see in your analogy
If I borrow money at interest, I am the metaphoric pork eater, who then blames the pig farmer for the problem.
I don?t know much about finance but what options do you have other than money at interest? Other than borrowing from a rich friend?
Pig isn?t the only meat out there but borrowing money?
How can you shift a whole nation/society to stop borrowing money from banks/institutes? I don?t think that is possible.
The pig farmer is just doing a job to their consumers. The pig farmer isn?t the problem either because s/he needs the revenue. At least if another farmer has cattle consumers can go to that farmer but what options does a consumer have with money?
I don't know who is responsible, not all questions have an easy simple answer. the system is responsible possibly, so who runs the system? communities? i don't know.
Salam
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Banking and farming are two different terms.
If the only source of food was pigs... and the only source of finance was interest... then this analogy would be appropriate.
But for now the are many sources of food, but there aren't many sources of finance. But when it comes to farming pigs... there is no statement in the quran that I know of that forbids people to farm pigs... but rather to eat them is forbidden. But there are statements against lending, recording, and taking interest based finance.
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Salamun alaikum,
I work in the finance industry ensuring businesses get the finance they need in order to grow or buy new premises in order to make more money.
I see myself as being responsible to a certain extent that these people are given money at interest.
In the UK, the Islamic Bank of Britain 'lends' money to people and charges money for doing so, technically (according to the principles of transaction based on Sunni Shariah Law) the transaction is valid and no 'interest' is being consumed or entered into. The problem they have is that the criteria for lending is so tight that 95% of people do not qualify for said finance.
At the present time there is no viable option to take out 'halal' finance for most people, so for their businesses to grow they borrow money. Remember that this money doesn't just stay in one person's pocket, it helps feed back into the economy, so is good for the country over all.
There is no easy exit out of this, as the world works in this way (for the time being). A society where there is no currency has no need for interest - but that's not going to happen any time soon, not for maybe another 200 odd years if the Star Trek hadiths are to be believed...
Peace
d -
Banking and farming are two different terms.
If the only source of food was pigs... and the only source of finance was interest... then this analogy would be appropriate.
But for now the are many sources of food, but there aren't many sources of finance. But when it comes to farming pigs... there is no statement in the quran that I know of that forbids people to farm pigs... but rather to eat them is forbidden. But there are statements against lending, recording, and taking interest based finance.
Well, I dont think it is "Bad" to Farm Pigs...if they are for Personal Reasons and NOT for Consumption.
Pigs Do not have any Pores in their skin, They do not get Sick, and are one of the animals that Eat Rotting Flesh.
That is why It would be Great to Farm pigs in order to keep your Farm clean of rotting flesh. Pigs are Cleaners.But if you are a PIG FARMER who is Intentionally Farming Pigs that are to be Consumed...then I think thats BAD.
Its like, If you are making Drugs...If you are Not Consuming it...and No one around you is not going to consume it...then I dont really think its bad....(but then...that would mean there would be no use for it so, you shouldnt make it at all)...But If you are going to Intentionally make Drugs that You or Others are going to consume...that is bad.
You cant Sell Crack, and be all like "Hey man...Blame the system not me...I am only trying to make some money."
It is still bad, and you'll still get a punishment. Allah has givin us examples of better Jobs to do even in hardship. -
In the UK, the Islamic Bank of Britain 'lends' money to people and charges money for doing so, technically (according to the principles of transaction based on Sunni Shariah Law) the transaction is valid and no 'interest' is being consumed or entered into. The problem they have is that the criteria for lending is so tight that 95% of people do not qualify for said finance.
When I looked into "Islamic lending" here in the U.S. a few years ago, and did an estimate to how much we'd have to pay back on our house with such a loan, it came to almost exactly the same amount over the life of the loan versus a conventional "interest" loan. I'm not sure why that is. ??? Seems a little fishy. It's like interest is being charged on the Islamic loan, it just isn't called "interest".
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Salamun alaikum,
The shariah compliant finance houses take their lead from conventional banks when working out profits. In most cases they actually make more.
In at least a year I should be starting university again in order to go into teaching. I've had enough of the finance world, teaching is the way to go I think. At least it's a halal occupation!
Peace
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Salaam,
the Islamic Banks are as Islamic as an halal Brothel, with all good Muslim girls, in truth these criminals and those who pervert the message of the Qur'an are far worse than the Jewish/ Roman Catholic bankers, they dress their usury in the clothes of piety and the word of Allah, a punishment I would not care to witness awaits such utter contempt for the Islamic concepts, as Allah is at war with these criminals.
A simple way to conceive of what is and what is not Riba, or usury in English, is if it conforms to this concept 'The premeditated theft of the fruits of someone else's labour.'
The problem after establishing you can not use these institution, not wanting to be a pork eater, is what should be established to conform to the concepts of the Qur'an?
I have an explanation of the correct model, based firstly on the understanding of ownership, without this understanding you can never grasp Riba.
All the Earth is allodial (Cannot be owned as it belongs solely to Allah), as are the fruits of the Earth, for example if I plant a field of watermelons, the watermelons are the bounty of Allah, grown from the earth and out of the seed, and from the design of Allah, but the physical labour you invested in the planting of the seed, the preparing of the land, the harvesting and marketing of the watermelons, is what you have honestly earned and deserve in reward of your labour, so when you sell the watermelon, the watermelon itself is free, as it is the bounty of Allah, but the labour it took to reach its end user and consumer must be paid by the end user and consumer.
This is in contrast to usury, if I lent you a watermelon, and expect you to repay me two watermelons in return, I have laboured in the creation of the one watermelon, but I expect a second watermelon in return for no labour, I have extorted the fruits of your labour from you, because to create the second watermelon I must labour twice as much as you laboured in the creation of just one watermelon, and surrender that labour to you in reward for no effort on your part, this is usury.
Or if I demanded 10% of your crop in exchange for insuring it against loss, so I gambled you would have a good harvest, when the odds maybe only 1% of the time a crop is lost. This is a form of usury.
The Islamic model, protecting yourself from the hardship of a crop failure is simple. A group of farmers would join together, each committing a share of their crop into the collective pot, proportionate to the size of their holdings, only if a farm failed would any burden be extracted from the collective, otherwise the insurance would cost nothing. This loss burden sharing insurance could be linked across large group collectives of farmers, so reducing theburden through scale of any potential losses.
To sell a crop of watermelons at a discounted price before you have planted the seeds, and harvested, jumping straight to market, as is now commonly practiced through the futures market, is selling something you do not have, and may never have, you may only sell what you posses, to sell a potential is a form of usury, you are selling nothing now for the fruits of someone?s labour, for a price that if you deliver in the future would be for less than you have earned.
If you would like to read a more indepth understanding of these concepts you should visit my website.
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So my question is who is really responsible for the universal usury (Riba in Arabic) system of the modern world, is it the bankers, the pig farmers, or the borrowers, the pork eaters?
Salam,
Just a couple of months ago , I was ok about using banks for everyday transactions , keeping money in deposits ,using credit cards .....any service that banks provide that has nothing to do with interest. But now I have doubts.
After reading some articles and watching some documentaries about economy I reached a clear understanding of what usuary is and its effects on society . I know the reason why God forbids usuary now and my whole perception of modern life and related concepts of it, has changed.
I am aware of what is going on now and I feel responsible . Becouse the price of knowledge is responsibility.After learning the real scheme of modern era financing system , I don't want to have any kind of contribution to that system .
But at this point the real problem arises . How am I going to achive not having any contribution to their system? Everything is so interrelated.
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Salamun alaikum,
I work in the finance industry ensuring businesses get the finance they need in order to grow or buy new premises in order to make more money.
I see myself as being responsible to a certain extent that these people are given money at interest.
In the UK, the Islamic Bank of Britain 'lends' money to people and charges money for doing so, technically (according to the principles of transaction based on Sunni Shariah Law) the transaction is valid and no 'interest' is being consumed or entered into. The problem they have is that the criteria for lending is so tight that 95% of people do not qualify for said finance.
At the present time there is no viable option to take out 'halal' finance for most people, so for their businesses to grow they borrow money. Remember that this money doesn't just stay in one person's pocket, it helps feed back into the economy, so is good for the country over all.
There is no easy exit out of this, as the world works in this way (for the time being). A society where there is no currency has no need for interest - but that's not going to happen any time soon, not for maybe another 200 odd years if the Star Trek hadiths are to be believed...
Peace
dThat is why when the economy of the early muslims expanded through zakat and sadaqa.
You want halal finance... destroy the interest
And since you see yourself responsible for recording interest (and earning money from the interest directly) quran 2275-281... you're technically not classified as a muslim, there's your ticket to hell then.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqmKZ7ezKMM
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Salaam Far,
if you have a wrong belief and so act against the concepts of the Qur'an, you are not a Muslim, as action defines being Muslim, however if you realise your belief was wrong, you address your belief and establish a new Islamic understanding, in so altering your actions from that point on, you are a Muslim, the wrong actions are disregarded.
If you would like to read an explanation of an Islamic financial model
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/9/30/
Ownership
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/68/98/
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Salamun alaikum FAR,
2275-281 are indeed scary ones for me. However I must eat and take care of my family. At least for the moment my choices are severely limited as I have been working in the finance industry for the last 9 years. I cannot just leave my job - will I be able to find another which pays what I get - I have looked and not been successful. So, I plod on.
To be specific, my role is that of application preparation, so I facilitate people to get commercial finance. My salary (no bonus) is paid at the end of each month and I live my life as best I can. It is a meagre existence hand to mouth, but an existence it is. I hope to start university in September to do my PGCE and then I'm out for good.
What do I do in the meantime?
Peace
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Salaam Darcus,
we are all judged on intention, we should judge others through this same method, your intention is true, you have recognized your situation, you have established a purpose and a desire to achieve that purpose, and you will in the fullness of time, carry out your desire and achieve the result that will free you from the present situation.
No one could ask for more, I wish you success in your efforts.
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Salamun alaikum FAR,
2275-281 are indeed scary ones for me. However I must eat and take care of my family. At least for the moment my choices are severely limited as I have been working in the finance industry for the last 9 years. I cannot just leave my job - will I be able to find another which pays what I get - I have looked and not been successful. So, I plod on.
To be specific, my role is that of application preparation, so I facilitate people to get commercial finance. My salary (no bonus) is paid at the end of each month and I live my life as best I can. It is a meagre existence hand to mouth, but an existence it is. I hope to start university in September to do my PGCE and then I'm out for good.
What do I do in the meantime?
Peace
dYou'd be better off getting your own home business, providing people services. Your PGCE... well... http//www.learnerade.com/index.html
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In the UK, the Islamic Bank of Britain 'lends' money to people and charges money for doing so, technically (according to the principles of transaction based on Sunni Shariah Law) the transaction is valid and no 'interest' is being consumed or entered into.
Peace
dcall it interest its wrong, call it a charge its ok. brought from the idea that trade is acceptable and interest is not. its the same thing by another name thats all. IMHO if one enters into a contractual loan where the interest/charge is stated at the time then there is no harm done. If one enters into a contractual loan where the interest/charge is NOT stated thats when it becomes 'usery'.
banks use our money we deposit with them and pay us interst/a charge for that TRADE the same as we borrow to TRADE and pay a charge for that use. ???
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Salaam Ayisha,
banks do not use deposits as you describe, they use a system call fractional reserve, in effect they create the fiction of money out of nothing, simply an entry within a computer system, this fictional debt is then paid over twenty years or so, by the indebted person with real money, so rob them of their physical efforts for their own advantage.
The banks have worked hard to confuse Muslims into thinking you could have such a thing as an Islamic bank, an impossible establishment, they find corrupt or confused mullas, imans or muftis to rubber stamp their Usury Islamic banking model.
The problem with Muslim is they do not understand Riba, as you must first understand ownership.
Usury The premeditated theft of the fruits of someone else's labour.
Ownership
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/68/98/