What is the value of a human life, viewed as a Muslim?
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not the point... why does it say 'believer' and not simply generalize it by saying any human... this would imply that one who believes is somewhat higher in some status
That is the point. any human life is valuable (532) and then our individual value differs. One who believes has a higher value based on their actions. It's not simply thoughts of belief.. belief encompasses actions. Is the one who sits the same as the one who strives? off course not.
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not the point... why does it say 'believer' and not simply generalize it by saying any human... this would imply that one who believes is somewhat higher in some status
yeah, but why is it distinct regarding killing... is killing a nonbeliever any different from killing a believer...
Easy. Who's really able to distinct a believer from nonbeliever? you? me? anyone else here? That's why the next verse (494) becomes critical.
After all,
1733 And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in taking life. Indeed, he has been supported.
Food for thought
3316 Say, "Never will fleeing benefit you if you should flee from death or killing; and then, you would not be given enjoyment except for a little."
And let's not miss an important point of 532
Because of that, (background?)
We decreed upon the Children of Israel (contextobservant?)
that whoever kills a soul by other than (exception)• a soul or
• corruption in the land -
it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.
And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.
And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs.
Then indeed many of them, after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.Weren't the exceptions above refer to a person who has killed/caused death of someone else unjustly, or who has done corruption to a degree of severity in the earth? As for the context, i think there are other AQ verses explaining this matter (1733 among them), so maybe we should take this verse as a precedence.
Peace
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Human life is precious, Glory to God. So precious that oppression of human rights is the only justification for war.
The unbeleivers are for the most part the ones who will oppress others and that is why the Quran mentions fighting unbelievers in particular if they wage war instead of peace treaties. One a small level though, and for me personally it can feel tough, but even people you can't stand to be around, it's very importan to respect that God created them and will guide or misguide them as He wills. I know a few people in my life where it would seem like it would feel great for me to unload what I really think about them and tell them mean things. But their life is worth my respect because God created them and chose to let me experience their personality. This is the verse I often remember in situations like this Not equal is the good response and the bad response. You shall resort to the nicest possible response. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend. -
Salaam,
do you believe the Qur'an directs a state, or each individual Muslim to fight against Riba (Usury), slavery, exploitation, subjugation, etc.?
When, as a Muslim you can have no sovereign, not even the Rusul Muhammad could have been your sovereign, no human being can be your sovereign, or enforce sovereignty over you, as a Muslim, yet those professing to be Muslims are utterly subjugated?
This means you can have no sovereign state as a Muslim.
Do you think the state is responsible for your actions, or the lack of action, in the removal of Riba (Usury), slavery, prostitution, poor education, genocide,etc.; or you personally as a Muslim?
If you invest your saving within a Rothschild bank, the founders of the Israeli state, are you responsible for that act, or have you no choice?
If you pay into a pension every month, that then invests your labours into Motorola, the largest manufacturer of land mines on earth, is that your fault?
If you pay taxes to a sovereign state, who then uses you labour to exterminate the population of its neighbour, it that your fault?
If you vote for a sovereign to subjugate you, and so empower them to subjugate those around you, is that your fault?
If you invest in the stock market and earn money from the fruits of others without any effort yourself, is that your fault?
If you see a child starving and beaten and walk by without a second thought, is that your fault?
If you hear of a child being abused, if you suspect a child is being abused, and do nothing, is that your fault?
If you buy from a monopoly, empowering the restrictive nature of their fraud, such as diamonds, is that your fault?
If you rent properties to others as their permanent home, a form of Riba (Usury), is that your fault?
If you force you daughter to marry a man you have chosen, is that your fault?
If you stand silent while others suffer hardship, brutality, poverty, disease, genocide, starvation, slavery or deep depravity at the hands of others, is that your fault?
What is the price to you, of a human life?
Millions and millions of human beings are dieing every year from the neglect of Religious Muslim, from the encouragement given to the companies, institutions and establishments patronized by Religious Muslims, from the support through investments, and consumption by Religious Muslims, from the active involvement of Muslims participating in the very structures of extermination; the world has suffered enough from religion, the time has arrived for Muslims to return to the world.
What is the price to you, of a human life?
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I haven't read all the replies yet. I will later and maybe respond to those. But right now I'll just say that I've thought about this myself and it's a very difficult question.
I don't know if human life is worth that much, or if every human life is worth the same. I tend to act based on the rule that if I want to be treated a certain way then I must treat others the same way. Or if I want something from the world I must give the world that first. So if I value my life, I have to value all others the same because I am not any different from anyone else.
BUT, there is also the fact that some people are just BETTER than others. Isn't a good person worth more than an evil person? Or a smarter person who has more to offer the world than a mentally handicapped one who will contribute little if anything? Is it okay to look at it like that or should we consider their sentimental value? -
Salaam,
it seems everyone wishes to avoid the answer to the question, it is you who establish the value of a human life, every day you make choices that impact positively or negatively upon the lives of others; will I buy this, will I invest in that, will I donate something to help this, will I help those around me, those close and far, will I educate myself in all things to spread knowledge, will I give of myself freely to all who need my help, will I make a stand and become an example of truth to those around me, will I refuse oppression, hatred, ignorance and usury (Riba)?
And the answer is always No.
Religious Muslims tell themselves, I am powerless, what can I do?
And the answer is always Nothing.
Religious Muslims tell themselves, it is not wrong, Riba is not Usury, so usury is ok in most situations, its only for the destitute it applies, I don't think about the suffering of those my Usury kills, impoverishes, corrupts, enslaves and degrades, I have no choice, what can I do?
And the answer is always nothing.
Just like a stake anchored deep in the earth their love of nothing holds them to the ground; will you help? What can I do? Is the answering voice of Religious Islam in the modern world.
Subjugated willingly, is that a Muslim?
Enslaved to the will of another, it can be a Mullah, an Iman, a state, a idol of any description, and you are not a Muslim, as you can have absolutely no sovereign, only Allah has sovereignty.
Enslaved to the laws of man, it can be Admiralty Law, corporate structure, eminent domain upon the land, so a form of ownership that is usury, Riba, and so you can not be a Muslim, only Allah has ownership of the land and its fruits.
Enslaved to the traditions of your ancestors, superstitions, rituals and dogma, conjecture and confusion, and so you can not be a Muslim, Allah expressed a complete guide, you need no other guide.
A believer is not a Religious person of any description, a believer is a believer in truth, no matter the cost, whatever the hardship, what ever the loss, the truth is the foundation of all creation, the opposite of the truth is nothing, are you a believer in the truth, only your actions will demonstrate that, pray all you wish, it does not make you Muslim, a Muslim is defined purely upon their actions within this life, ritual is not involved.
So as I said earlier within this thread, as an example, if you buy a can of coke, you are in support of the Zionist genocide of the Palestinian people, a simple act buying a can of coke, do you think Allah would not have noticed?
Modern life is filled with actions detrimental to human life, but what can a Muslim do?
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Who's really able to distinct a believer from nonbeliever? you? me? anyone else here?
Valid point san. Wherever God uses the word "believer" in the Quran, there will always be people who think they know what a believer is and decide from their own foolishness. My first thought is like your's. Who am I to judge the deep corners of a person's heart? Maybe God uses the word "believer" because He knows very well there are/will be people who make that decision... Therefore exposing them as people who are misguided. Because of the fact we can never really know for sure, maybe God is actually trying to tell us in 493 not to kill anyone. Just my thoughts!
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It could be that 532 is misunderstood. I used to think that 532 tells us that killing one person is as sinful as killing every person on Earth, but there's a problem with that understanding of 532. According to such an understanding of 532, the value of human life depends on the number of people on Earth so if you killed a person a thousand years ago, it wouldn't have been as bad as killing a person today because there are many more people now. This understanding of 532 contradicts verses of the quran in which the god tells us that there can be no change in the god's system. I think what 532 is really telling us that the rights of one person are equal to the rights of every other person; that the rights of a majority don't trump the rights of a minority. 532 makes it perfectly clear that the quran's moral philosophy is a completely individualistic one since it emphasizes the inviolability of the rights of an individual using the example of the most foundational individual right the right not to be killed.
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I think my understanding of 532 answers Abdun Nur's question. The quran tells us that Cain willfully killed Abel. It does not say Cain let Abel die, which I think is very important because it informs us of the inviolability of the right not to be killed. It doesn't tell us that we have the right to live because we don't really have the right to live. The right to live would mean that we have the right to do whatever we want to ensure we live, like getting people in power to tax the rich for our benefit in case we're poor. The right not to be killed simply means that we have the right not to have others actively put an end to our life. It means that we can't be justified in stopping others from letting us die. So human life is valuable, but not so valuable that other rights can be violated to protect it.
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Salaam,
my question is not about the murder of an individual, but the responsibility to your fellow human beings.
If through your action, apathy, contempt, disregard, arrogance or hatred you aid in the misery of those around you, are you not responsible for your actions.
Have you not read this thread?
Small actions can have cumulative effect upon humanity, just as the pollution of a river, if each factory along a river adds just a little poison to the water, the river becomes death, so destroys all that use it.
Who is responsible for the river, if each factory argues that the amount of poison it discharged could never hurt such a huge flow of water?
Are you responsible for your actions?
Or are your actions so insignificant in the flow of such a huge river they have no effect?
This is the question, what is a human life worth to you, how much effort will you exert to prevent the river from poisons?
What is a human life worth to you?
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What can a muslim do?
I live in the united states. I know this country is responsible for taking millions of lives. But I can't leave. I have too many responsibilities here. My family and friends are here. I can't change much by myself either. So it may be that I'm part of the machine that is responsible for violence all over the world but at this point in time there is nothing I can do to change that.
There was this woman on the news today. Her cousin and his family is dying in Haiti, they don't have water to drink, but there is nothing she can do. She was crying and asking for help. That's all she can do.
There are a lot of people who value human life greatly, but a lot of times we are restricted, handicapped by our immediate responsibilities and our limited power, even if we let go completely of our desires.
What people can do to make things better is work to change peoples' thinking, which is the only way to bring about lasting improvement. Nothing can change unless peoples' thinking changes.
For example President Carter called for energy conservation. Back then, no one cared, so his ideas were ignored.
Today, that idea has been drilled into peoples' heads by the media (tv, movies, books), celebrities, policitians, and by other people. Environmentalism has become a culture. So now those same ideas that people ridiculed back then make so much sense to them today.
Same thing with slavery. -
What can a muslim do?
I live in the united states. I know this country is responsible for taking millions of lives. But I can't leave. I have too many responsibilities here. My family and friends are here. I can't change much by myself either. So it may be that I'm part of the machine that is responsible for violence all over the world but at this point in time there is nothing I can do to change that.
There was this woman on the news today. Her cousin and his family is dying in Haiti, they don't have water to drink, but there is nothing she can do. She was crying and asking for help. That's all she can do.
There are a lot of people who value human life greatly, but a lot of times we are restricted, handicapped by our immediate responsibilities and our limited power, even if we let go completely of our desires.
What people can do to make things better is work to change peoples' thinking, which is the only way to bring about lasting improvement. Nothing can change unless peoples' thinking changes.
For example President Carter called for energy conservation. Back then, no one cared, so his ideas were ignored.
Today, that idea has been drilled into peoples' heads by the media (tv, movies, books), celebrities, policitians, and by other people. Environmentalism has become a culture. So now those same ideas that people ridiculed back then make so much sense to them today.
Same thing with slavery.Exactly. Very good post. bravo
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Salaam Lobster,
you have not understood my point, I don't know if this is an intentional or unintentional act, but I will explain it clearly.
Responsibility for the world around us is, within the confines of Islam, a very hard path, one religious Muslims refuse to take, partly because they can not see it, if they did take this path it would cause them enormous problems, but take it they must, the answer is not in killing and violence, but in choices.
You as a Muslim can have no sovereign, absolutely and without equivocation, so this being the case cannot accept the dictates of a sovereign that conflict with any and all Islamic models, so for example you can not pay any taxes, as these would be a form of usury.
You could not use any bank as they are usurious, or even the currency itself, you could not buy shares, stocks or bonds, again usurious, you could not invest or trade in the pension or futures or currency or the insurance markets, both usurious and gambling, you could not buy chemical laced foods now predominant within the industrialised nations, you couldn't drink fluoridated water, as drinking rat poison is against Islam, you couldn't vote for any sovereign, a sovereign state is against Islam, as much as a sovereign government, in the Islamic model, no nations or borders exist.
You are required to stand in defense of the weak, even at the cost of your own life, you are required to support and nurture the destitute and infirm, you are required to take no help from your enemy, so could not accept government aid, as this is always with strings attached, and results in far more hardship over time than it solves in the short term.
The world has been taken so far away from the Islamic models it is hard to recognise them any longer, people attempt to make the Islamic models compatible with the usury and sovereign models, they are not, and can not exist together.
The world is in the misery we see because Islam has been removed from the world, and it is time for it to return.
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Salaam nsws1988,
as I said it is only our choices that allow the system we suffer, these choices can be understood as a subjugated mind, that means a mind that is subservient to the will and dictates of another person or group, a subjugated mind will enforce the will of their sovereign upon those around them. So the answer is simple, people have to realise the situation, recognize that they are subjugated and refuse that subjugation, this will change the world.
It can be done, but not alone, the critical mass of the number of people it takes to change a system is quiet small, possibly between 1 and 5% of the local population, a percentage various people have suggested in historical example, if we take the top figure of 5%, I have written an oath to refuse sovereignty posted on my website, if this oath was sworn to, upon reaching the critical mass it would be enacted, and the power of sovereignty would be removed, the systems presented within the Qur'an are explained on my website, Qur'anic Caliphate, a sovereign free system could be established.