Can salat method be derived from Quran....
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Peace every one.
In this short video Khalid Zaheer talks about why the method of salat is not there in Quran (at minute 5). Off course, he is not refering to hadees books.
http//khalidzaheer.com/video/16
It sounds convincing to me. More convincing than trying to find the salat method in Quran by twisting and turning meanings of Arabic words.
Any opinions?
Regards
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I watched that video. It is one of the common views, i.e. refers to an existing practice. The other common view is that prophet Muhammad purified it and taught it.
If it refers to an existing practice, it is highly likely there were several forms of prayer (what he calls salat) at the time, thus it is highly unlikely God would have been sanctioning a continuation of this practice, whatever the form. Thus the latter common view is more plausible.
The problem then of course is that The Quran says no such thing, and ALL information goes against salat=prayer. dua is prayer/petition.
This is one of the hardest things to accept when people switch to 'Quran based islam', and it takes time. Quite simply, I am not aware of any long term member who thinks salat=prayer (except perhaps progod and edip), but even they have differing views, i.e. no-traditional-form, some-traditional-form. But in any case, no-one, as far as I'm aware, who supports salat=prayer has ever been able to write a logical/coherent article on this and refute the points brought up. People can make of that what they will.
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I watched that video. It is one of the common views, i.e. refers to an existing practice. The other common view is that prophet Muhammad purified it and taught it.
If it refers to an existing practice, it is highly likely there were several forms of prayer (what he calls salat) at the time, thus it is highly unlikely God would have been sanctioning a continuation of this practice, whatever the form. Thus the latter common view is more plausible.
The problem then of course is that The Quran says no such thing, and ALL information goes against salat=prayer. dua is prayer/petition.
This is one of the hardest things to accept when people switch to 'Quran based islam', and it takes time. Quite simply, I am not aware of any long term member who thinks salat=prayer (except perhaps progod and edip), but even they have differing views, i.e. no-traditional-form, some-traditional-form. But in any case, no-one, as far as I'm aware, who supports salat=prayer has ever been able to write a logical/coherent article on this and refute the points brought up. People can make of that what they will.
Peace all
Quran is revealed in the language of Qureshi people. All the words in Quran are used in the same context as Qureshi people would use them.
The meaning of the word salat should be understood the same way as it was understood by those people --> Salat = worship method.
What I dont understand is
Why do some thinkers at free-minds give some other meaning to the word salat. (By digging deep into dictionaries and roots etc).
Why do we think Quran would describe each word it has used? (Quran is not a dictionary) I dont see any description of salat method in Quran (yes I have read almost all articles where people are trying to derive salat method from Quran). If Qureshi already knew what salat is then why would Quran describe it. Quran is not the first book of religion. It is the last book.God knows the best.
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i agree that salat is not some ritual prayer...
i think ones who agree have already talked about it here very much it should be clear by now but ok...Yes that is what worries me because God-Only-Thinkers have given a new meaning to the word salat just because Quran does not describe this word and we refuse to take its meaning from the general usage of the term in crowd, as everything has to be understood solely from Quran.
My take is that worship methods are coming down to us from generation to generation through the crowd (just like Quran has reached us through people). Quran does not prohibit us to follow such worship methods and assumes that we are already aware of such rituals. God-Only-Thinkers have created difficulties by making Quran a sole source of rituals and have forgotten that Quran is the last book of guidance, not the first. Quran does not define the rituals that were already in place.
Peace
PS No, I dont think we can derive religion from hadees books, so dont get me wrong. -
Yes that is what worries me because God-Only-Thinkers have given a new meaning to the word salat just because Quran does not describe this word and we refuse to take its meaning from the general usage of the term in crowd, as everything has to be understood solely from Quran.
My take is that worship methods are coming down to us from generation to generation through the crowd (just like Quran has reached us through people). Quran does not prohibit us to follow such worship methods and assumes that we are already aware of such rituals. God-Only-Thinkers have created difficulties by making Quran a sole source of rituals and have forgotten that Quran is the last book of guidance, not the first. Quran does not define the rituals that were already in place.
Peace
PS No, I dont think we can derive religion from hadees books, so dont get me wrong.i wouldn't say everything is understood solely from quran, believe it or not, but even quran doesn't focus on itself, rather it points us elsewhere... to travel the world, explore/study the nature...
it's like in school we learn many things, one might think, they will never need this, and they won't, it's not about that, it's about learning to think a certain way, to expand one's horizons... no offense to hadithfollowers but most seem to be focused and learning only hadith and are very narrowminded as a result...worship methods are not prohibited either, you can do it, do whatever you want, but what i've seen from quran is that it focuses more on beneficial things... i mean the fact that it describes inheritance more in detail shows that any type of ritual is of less importance... even whom to marry/not to marry is described more in detail...
so i don't get why there's still people soooo obsessed with this ritual?????it's not a 'new meaning' it's one of the meanings anyway, who's to say the traditional translation is correct one?
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Yes that is what worries me because God-Only-Thinkers have given a new meaning to the word salat just because Quran does not describe this word and we refuse to take its meaning from the general usage of the term in crowd, as everything has to be understood solely from Quran.
In my opinion - "God-Aloners" are not members of any sect. We're all just Muslims without a self-proclaimed leader to tells us what to think. Therefor we don't follow a specific agenda - other than the Quran. So if you're God-aloner you have every right to pray the "classic" way without being any different from all the other God-aloners, Quranic/Koranic Muslim, real Muslims or whatever y'all wanna identify yourselves as.
Some God-aloners don't even want to be labeled or have a title because they think it turns them into just another sect, and I agree.Peace!
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In my opinion - "God-Aloners" are not members of any sect. We're all just Muslims without a self-proclaimed leader to tells us what to think. Therefor we don't follow a specific agenda - other than the Quran. So if you're God-aloner you have every right to pray the "classic" way without being any different from all the other God-aloners, Quranic/Koranic Muslim, real Muslims or whatever y'all wanna identify yourselves as.
Some God-aloners don't even want to be labeled or have a title because they think it turns them into just another sect, and I agree.Peace!
By God-Only-People I meant those who derive the whole religion from Quran. I know they dont want to be called Quran-Only-People. That is why I was using this term in respect.
Peace
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I'm pretty sure the Quran describes how you pray, anyone else?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-6uPfKxk60
Very sure.
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Well the Quran tells us how to perform Wudu, so im sure it should also tell us how to pray to our lord
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If the QURAN doesnt tell us how to pray, then where are we possibly going to look? MANMADE scriptures?? we are going to let the currupt words of MAN tell us how to worshipp our lord so we can enter paradise??? shiirrkkkkkkk! not to mention HOW the hadith tells us how to pray.. there are soo many contradictions in it that its basically begging me NOT to follow a word of it.
the Quran tells us to not come to salat prayer without understanding a word that we speak
the Quran tells us to recite ayats from the Quran to pray
the quran continuously mentions 'bow down' and 'prostrate' and 'start from the standing position' so we can definately take advantage of them.I am sure there is more in the Quran. inshallah we will find it and be guided from it.
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Salam all,
salat does not mean "prayer".
1440Dou3a means prayer.
see 7218, 7220, 2114, 2436, 17110,What do do in a prayer? Just speak to God alone, He is the hearer.
338, 1088, 1089How, what positions?
3191, 1012Salat is "quran reading session" and means link/bond (for meditation).
Peace
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Peace everyone,
What do do in a prayer? Just speak to God alone, He is the hearer.
338, 1088, 1089Thought i want to chirp in . I just hope that people don't get themselves trapped in the 'wish and let happen', for merely "speaking" does not work miracles.
So herbman's right, du'a is "call", i.e., "speak". The process, however, implies more than just speaking (2186). There are also "respond". The call is ours, the respond is God's, and then at that exact same moment, the ball's passed back to us, so the respond is now ours. Something extraordinary happen in your mind when you "speak" up your prayer, the answer forms itself within the space of your mind. Forgetting that the ultimate respond is ours might lead one to think that the respond is still waiting on the other side, as though the "God" you knew are doing back orders. Which leads to nothing happen. On football terms, it's like you're waiting for a pass while the ball is under your feet -\ (yeh right, someone will come to steal the ball off you)
I don't know how to put it into a single word, but "prayer" as i understand it is a continuous process in the mind (of course that means "actions included".
That's all i need to chirp about. thanks for your attention. ooh, that looks delicious
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Salam,
It is interesting to note that no where in any current form do we have today has God ever described how to pray physically. God does give us guidance on what to say. All through the Quran are little snippets of prayer and Jesus gave us the Lord's Prayer when asked how to pray. So perhaps it does not matter what we physically do during our time of prayer but what is in our hearts and minds and the intention of having a moment with our Creator. Humbling ourselves in prostration puts on a good show but it means nothing if the intention from within does not exist.
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I do think it gives a general description.
Peace,
Respectfully.7320 Your Lord knows that you rise a little less than two thirds of the night, and half of it, and one third of it; and a group of those who are with you. And God measures the night and the day. He knows that you will not be able to keep-up, so He pardons you. So read what is made easy of the Qur?an. He knows that there will be sick among you, and others that go forth in the land seeking from the bounty of God, and others who are fighting in the cause of God, so read what you can of it. And hold the contact prayer and contribute towards purification and lend God a loan of righteousness. And whatever you put forth yourselves, you will find it with God, for it is better and a greater reward. And seek the forgiveness of God, for God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Have you checked this page?
http//www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/al-salat_(P1192).htmlPeace.
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Peace,
Respectfully.7320 Your Lord knows that you rise a little less than two thirds of the night, and half of it, and one third of it; and a group of those who are with you. And God measures the night and the day. He knows that you will not be able to keep-up, so He pardons you. So read what is made easy of the Qur?an. He knows that there will be sick among you, and others that go forth in the land seeking from the bounty of God, and others who are fighting in the cause of God, so read what you can of it. And hold the contact prayer and contribute towards purification and lend God a loan of righteousness. And whatever you put forth yourselves, you will find it with God, for it is better and a greater reward. And seek the forgiveness of God, for God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Have you checked this page?
http//www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/al-salat_(P1192).htmlPeace.
Selam Alen
Could 7320 also be read as such?
7320 Your Lord knows that you rise a little less than two thirds of the
night, and half of it, and one third of it; and a group of those who
are with you. And God measures the night and the day. He knows
that you will not be able to keep-up, so He pardons you. So read
what is made easy of the Reading. He knows that there will be sick
among you, and others that go forth in the land seeking from the
bounty of God, and others who are fighting in the cause of God,
so read what you can of it. And hold the bond and contribute
towards purification and lend God a loan of righteousness. And
whatever you put forth yourselves, you will find it with God, for
it is better and a greater reward. And seek the forgiveness of God,
for God is Forgiving, Merciful.In red reads 'hold the bond' rather than 'contact prayer'. Another alternative 'And uphold your commitments and keep them pure'. Reason for the later
243 God tells us that He instructed the Children of Israel Waaqeemoo alssalata waatoo alzzakata.
Some translations of this are
Khalifa 243 You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat),
Yusuf Ali 243 And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity
Message 243 And hold the bond, and contribute towards purification,
AIDID SAFAR 243 Uphold the commitments and keep them pure
The same instruction is given in 7320 so my question here is does 'Waaqeemoo alssalata waatoo alzzakata' mention any sort of ritual prayer? Some help with those who have knowledge of arabic (or logical thinkers with good tools to research) maybe of some help.
Peace
