Why does the Quran matter?
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You asked me to see physics, chemistry, biology for books on the "truth". And immediately after you stated these books arechanged all the time....is actually false. On this argument how can you be sure that what is written in those today will not be discarded as false? If not why you wish to cheat yourself by the opinionated "truth" of today and falsity of tomorrow.
Do you differentiate between opinion, truth and fact?
Exactly, how do you know what is true today will not be false tomorrow? Well obviously certain things are evident. Man once believed the world was flat. this was true until man circled the globe. books and maps which contained maps of a flat world were immediately declared wrong and changed accordingly. Man once believed that the earth was the centre of the universe. Once discovered to be false, all books and sources of knowledge were changed.
Man once believed that God created man in his own image, and created Adam as the first man. Subsequently, we have discovered that man evolved from an ape like species in a process known as evolution, over millions of years. Evidence of this is given by the existance of dinosaurs 65 millions years before man. Therefore, it is impossible that god created man for there were dinosaurs and other beings before man. Those who invented the story of Adam could not have know about dinosaurs for surely they would have mentioned this in their fantasy books.
Now we know that the books which talk about Adam and not evolution and dinosaurs is wrong. Can we change that book? Can the book be changed? The book which considers itself to be the ultimate source of truth and way of life for humans to follow, has been proven to be wrong. Why would man still believe in it? we no longer believe in the book which says the world is flat, why believe in the book which says that man was created by God in his own image, disproved by evolution?
Logical, rational and intelligent man, given his consciousness by God. Why would he believe in something which has been proven wrong? Surely, it is because these words in the book are imperfect, for only the word of God could be perfect, and God has not spoken for he want
s us to find the truth for ourself. If the book does not contain the word of God, why would you follow it? Aesops fables and it`s stories of morality would surely be a better read than the verses. -
We have the law to govern how we live. And the difference between the law and your Quran is that people actually agreed on the law, society accepts the law as necessary otherwise it would fall apart. But the law is subject to change, the law is always subject to change depending on new developments, while the Quran can never be changed,
The quran gives us a set of principles to live by, like do not kill exept in self defence and others like the ten commandments, appart from this all it says is to obey the law-law which you people set up by agreement, which is also what you are saying.
even when it is blatantly wrong.
things that seem wrong are actualy mistranslations or changes to the original quran-like people changing into apes and pigs in the quran or Abraham killing his son and as you are also saying shouldn't be accepted at all.
This is why the Quran can never be a source for law and order, because there is no room for improvement.
you can make your own personal adjustments who minds?
There is no compromise, there is no arguement, there is no debate, there is no changing circumstances. IF I wish to eat pork, drink alcohol, change to another religion, marry a non muslim man(if a was a woman), I cannot do this. This is wrong.
That is what people here are doing and finding there own ways to live their lives.
It is basic human rights to chose for myself what I wish to do.
absolutely.
Your book can never allow this for it is intolerant.
well don't follow it-It's so simple! No?
The people who can't or don't realise that it's there loss.Isn't it?
No matter how this website tries to spin it, the arguement falls flat. What we consider to be true and right must always be subject to challenge and it must be able to change.
And that is what the people here are saying and doing.
Evolution is a constant, everything changes. How can you ask anybody to base their life on a 1500 year old book which remains unchanged?
Absolutely right.
peace
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Hi simple, I think you might be talking about the wrong religion. I
m too lazy to think for myself here, and fortunately I wont need to. There is so much anti islamic literature on the internet which is easily copied and pasted. Well, if you can copy and paste scripture, perhaps it would be better to copy and paste something which is based on a reaction to 1500 years of scripture in action, in substance. I wonder why its so hard to find this kind of literature and writing about Buddhism, or Shintoism, despite being pagan worship which is hated by your religion. maybe its because these religions are actually tolerant and genuinely peaceful, instead of just claiming to be?Given that the message of the Koran is so clear regarding the blasphemy of Christians, and the need for Muslims to dominate them, it is a bit odd why any Islamic scholars would be calling for peace or dialog with Christians today. In fact, such Muslims are violating the commands of their own Koran, which they believe are given directly from God, pure and without error. The Koran is clear Muslims are not to dialog with Christians, they are to condemn them and dominate them, forcing them into submission.
The Surah clearly disproves anyone who would claim that Islam is a religion of peace or tolerance. After a bit of a vague start in the first three verses, it gets right to the point
614 ?Truly Allah loves those who fight in his cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.? Couldn?t be more clear, could it? Allah is a god of war, one who likes a well-disciplined fighting force.
The Koran then goes on to teach that Jesus prophesied the coming of Muhammad, literally by name. Sounds too crazy to believe, I know, but here it is
616 ?And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said ?O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah sent to you, confirming the Law which came before me, and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.??
Those Christians who would deny that Jesus ever said such a thing are liars, inventing falsehoods, as described in the next verses
617-8 ?Who does greater wrong than one who invents falsehood against Allah, even as he is being invited to Islam? And Allah guides not those who do wrong. Their intention is to extinguish Allah?s light by blowing with their mouths But Allah will complete the revelation of his light, even though the unbelievers may detest it.?
On numerous occasions in the Koran, it is stated that Islam must be the dominant religion, as in the very next verse, following up on how the Christians are liars for denying that Jesus prophesied Muhammad
619 ?It is he who has sent his messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that he may make it a conqueror of all religion, even though the idolaters may detest it.?
How are Muslims to respond to the Christians and other idolaters who would deny these truths? In the very next verses, the Koran answers clearly jihad, holy war.
6110-11 ?O you who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a painful doom? That you believe in Allah and his messenger, and that you strive your utmost in the cause of Allah with your money and your lives. That will be best for you, if you but knew!?
The reward for laying down your money and life in holy war? Wiping out your sins and a ticket to eternal paradise, as explained in the subsequent verse
6112 ?He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in gardens of eternity that is indeed the supreme achievement.?
Jumping back to Surah nine to see what else it says about how Muslims should treat Christians
929 ?Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the tribute tax with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.?
There are two seemingly positive and tolerant passage about Christianity in the Koran, but they both turn out to be shams
547-48 ?Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by the light of what Allah has revealed, they are no better than those who rebel. To you We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that has come to you. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but His plan is to test you in what He has given you so vie with one another in good works. The goal of you all is to Allah. It is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute.?
However, this passage is actually a sham tolerance, a mockery of tolerance. Verses 47-48 affirm the true Gospel as Allah revealed it. But the Koran is clear in condemning what we know as Christianity as a blasphemy, a corruption of the Gospel that was truly revealed from the Book of Allah. The Koran condemns Christianity as a blasphemy to be fought against, because they assert that Christianity is not based on the Gospel as Jesus proclaimed it.
Thus, there is tolerance for Christianity as the Muslims approve it, which is a Christianity that denies Christ was the Son of God, but there is no tolerance for Christianity as Christians actually practice it, venerating Jesus as the Son. The tolerant verse above only affirms tolerance for the Gospel according to Islam, which of course makes the whole concept of tolerance a total sham.
The one other passage in the Koran that is supposedly also tolerant (2256 ?Let there be no compulsion in religion Truth stands out clear from Error whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks.?) is also a sham. According to Islam, there are only three religions in the world, being the religions based on God?s revelation from the true Book the Koran, the Gospel, and the Torah. However, as we have seen, they do not believe that Christianity or Judaism are based on the true Gospel and Torah. According to the Koran, Christianity and Judaism as they exist in the world are actually corruptions of the true revelations found in the Gospel and the Torah. Thus, the idea that ?there shall be no compulsion in religion,? doesn?t apply, since the religions of Judaism and Christianity are not based on ?Truth,? as it says in 2256, but are actually based on blasphemous error.
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peace
The quran doesn't even disrespect the christians let alone killing them- unless they start killing you first, the quran is mistranslated to make it a book of millitants, that is how people where enrgised in to war and even the concubines don't exist but in the mistranslation- the original quran is all about love , peace harmony, law, order, charity e.t.c This mistranslation came about long time after the prophet who loved all people irrespective of their religion to my knowledge.
but as you are rightly saying the majority of the world Muslims follow the screwed up version - some don't even follow that but in name only, they actualy follow the hadiths which is where most of the currant Islam being practissed is coming from.
The quran has some solid principles of life some of which you have shown yourself and may be others which you follow aswell, most likely.
But irrespective of books, education is what Muslims in the world lack and their tendacy to follow others-their millitant leaders is their downfall.
Can they ever get away from their millitant leaders - not a chance to my knowledge.
&
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Sorry but it is a book of war. The prophet himself was a warlord who killed and took slaves among the Quraish. How do you think your religion spread across the continent within 20 or so years? Jihad, convert or die. You can keep saying the religion was hijacked but the reality cannot be changed. It is an ideology of power and force and this is reflected in it`s actions and the actions of its followers. either that or it is too perfect for mankind, cannot be used by mankind except for evil and therefore should be removed from our world.
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Sorry but it is a book of war. The prophet himself was a warlord who killed and took slaves among the Quraish. How do you think your religion spread across the continent within 20 or so years? Jihad, convert or die. You can keep saying the religion was hijacked but the reality cannot be changed. It is an ideology of power and force and this is reflected in it`s actions and the actions of its followers. either that or it is too perfect for mankind, cannot be used by mankind except for evil and therefore should be removed from our world.
Even i don't like the present day Islam. Saying that most of the people here arn't Muslim at all, but they are peace loving individuals or quranicaly muslim. D
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Evolution is a constant, everything changes. How can you ask anybody to base their life on a 1500 year old book which remains unchanged?
Absolutely right.
This misunderstanding/misconception comes to minds only because people do not make a distinction between "truth/true" and "fact". Truth is with relation to time and space; but "the fact" is not effected by time and space and neither needs reference of it. Grand Qur'aan is "Al Haqqo" A Statement of Fact.
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Man was created as Man from its day one.
with respects Mazhar, do you live in Pakistan?
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Jumping back to Surah nine to see what else it says about how Muslims should treat Christians
929 ?Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the tribute tax with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.?
Many translators might have translated what is highlighted but they put "even if they" in parentheses . What is said in the Book is totally opposite of their perception.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/9.29.gif
You people confront war, with those who do not believe in Allah, and nor believe in the Last Day;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/9.29a.gif
and nor they make that unlawful what Allah and His Messenger has declared unlawful
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/9.29b.gif
and nor they acknowledge the Prescribed Truthful Code from those who were given the Book,http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/9.29c.gif
until they pay the protection charges/tax compliantly while they are subdued/defeated.Here the confronting party of war is only one who apart from other things also do not acknowledge the code of the people of book, Christians and Jews.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/009.%20At%20Tauba.htm
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Peace,
I
m too lazy to think for myself here, and fortunately I wont need to.You might want to add closed-mindedness.
Given that the message of the Koran is so clear regarding the blasphemy of Christians, and the need for Muslims to dominate them, it is a bit odd why any Islamic scholars would be calling for peace or dialog with Christians today. In fact, such Muslims are violating the commands of their own Koran, which they believe are given directly from God, pure and without error. The Koran is clear Muslims are not to dialog with Christians, they are to condemn them and dominate them, forcing them into submission.
You seem to be clueless of the term "muslim". It means "one who is peaceful". In fact, according to The Quran (Reading), all who believe in God, do righteous deeds and believe in the hereafter are deemed "muslims". Those who follow and uphold The Quran are called "mumineen" (those who trust/believe).
I recommend this article http//www.free-minds.org/node/10
How can you be telling us about "the message of the Koran" when you yourself have not read it and/or are totally clueless about it's teachings/concepts/contents? BTW, the word "Christian" does not appear in The Quran. The word used is "nasara", meaning "supporters", namely the supporters/followers of Jesus.
Some principles/commands/teachings of The Quran and it's message
16125 Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones.
So, in fact, "the Islamc scholars that call for peace and dialog with Christians today" are doing the right thing. It is what is commanded in The Quran.
2563 The servants of the Almihgty are the ones who walk on the earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they say, "Peace."
The Surah clearly disproves anyone who would claim that Islam is a religion of peace or tolerance. After a bit of a vague start in the first three verses, it gets right to the point
FYI, "islam" means "peacefulness". I recommend reading this article
Also, war is only allowed in self-defense and against aggressors/oppressors2190 Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress. God does not love the aggressors.
I also recommend http//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/fighting-war-terrorism.htm
On numerous occasions in the Koran, it is stated that Islam must be the dominant religion,
"Deen" does not mean "religion". It means "obligation", "debt", "system", etc. And yes, peacefulness ("islam" should prevail. Unfortunately, not all people are upholders of peacefulness...
How are Muslims to respond to the Christians and other idolaters who would deny these truths? In the very next verses, the Koran answers clearly jihad, holy war.
"Jihad" means "strife", "effort", etc. It is used in other contexts, which have nothing to do with armed combat.
See http//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/jihad-holy-war.htm929 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the tribute tax with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
"Jizya" literally means "compensation", "recompense", etc.
I recommend reading the part on "jizya" at http//www.yuksel.org/e/books/rtq.htm -
the word "Christian" does not appear in The Quran. The word used is "nasara", meaning "supporters", namely the supporters/followers of Jesus.
Qur'aan has not given them name nasara either. It says those who identify themselves as Nisara , and in English they have chosen word "christian" for themselves. They are called by this identity accordingly.
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Yes dear, Pakistan, city Islamabad/Rawalpindi.
How do you know humans were made as they are now?
i just tried your link http//haqeeqat.org.pk
was surprised, have seen this....
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11105.0
and Aidid's video link......
http//www.aididsafar.com/video.html
peace
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Qur'aan has not given them name nasara either. It says those who identify themselves as Nisara , and in English they have chosen word "christian" for themselves. They are called by this identity accordingly.
262 Inna allatheena amanoo wa allatheena hadoo wa al nasara...
262 Surely those who trust, and those who are Jewish, and the "Nasara"..."Nasara" is the name of a group of people given in The Quran, namely the followers of Jesus. My point was that "Masihiyyun", which means "Christians", is not used in The Quran.
352 So when Jesus felt their rejection, he said, "Who are my supporters ("ansaree" towards God?" The disciples said, "We are God's supporters ("ansaru", we acknowledge God and we bear witness that we are ones who are peaceful."
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Hi humanists
I disagree with your ideologies of islam
The greatest power a human has is the ability to think. Islam is just another paradigm which limits the ability of your thoughts to reach outside of the box to find the truth. Think about it. Why do you need to care about what the Quran or even the bible wants? If you truly are a free mind, then why do you need to restrict your life? You know what is right and wrong, not from the Quran but from common sense, from what your parents teach you. Conscience is the highest form of justice, not some book. Your heart will tell you whether your actions are right or wrong. Your conscience will guide you over whether you have done the right or wrong thing. If you feel that eating pork is wrong, then it is wrong. If you feel that eating chicken is wrong, then it is wrong. What do you need the Quran for?
Why does islam limit your ability? I rather believe it does the opposite. Islam is a choice being muslim is a choice.
Why do you restrict your life with laws, common sense or what your parents teach you?
Your conscious can also be fooled to believe in what is bad as good and what is good as bad.
Where did ?commonsense, morals and education? come from? Just by thinking, living? Ever heard of ?Essentialism?? you seem to take that approach.
My God my God why do you keep replying with scripture which is utter rubbish and makes no sense? Tell me, if a man is virtous, lives a good life and worships God in his own way, will he go to heaven?
Curious how do you know if a man is virtuous? Lives a good life? And worships God his own way? how do you know his own way isn't conflicting?
A thought, you said
We have the law to govern how we live. And the difference between the law and your Quran is that people actually agreed on the law, society accepts the law as necessary otherwise it would fall apart. But the law is subject to change, the law is always subject to change depending on new developments, while the Quran can never be changed, even when it is blatantly wrong
And the laws we live in are not 100% the same or equally fair/just. Why is it a man who rapes or kills get charged with different law sentences? 2 man can rape a girl and both men get different sentences, why? Where?s the logic? The fairness? The justice?
Laws bend and change cos of number cos of consensus (even unchallenged consensus) that doesn?t necessarily mean it is right. Even with numbers, if a government wants to do something it will. Such as America going to war. Ok the war wasn?t a law but where is the justice in that? Isn?t that government abusing power? Is that a safe not falling apart society?
You said ?
IF I wish to eat pork, drink alcohol, change to another religion, marry a non muslim man(if a was a woman), I cannot do this.
?Let me tell you something ?you actually can!?. Why can?t you do it? Who is stopping you? I know a muslim lady who married a non muslim man, I know muslims who drink alcohol though I?m yet to meet a muslim who wishes to eat pork. But if you choose to do an action you have that choice.
I skipped a few posts what are you trying to say? That islam is intolerable? You mention why do we need Quran? I'll share my view..Quran is a guide and its underlying message can be found in different ways even without the Quran. However to attain a better level, following the guide would be necessary to further gain God consciousness. If you believe in the Quran and didn?t adhere to it, well I guess that would be a fault.
If you don?t follow the Quran I would ask why? Because you feel it unnecessary because you feel your morals/common sense/ parental guidance are just and right and above all but how do you know that for sure? You seem to repulse Quran and include cultural traditions as part of muslim/Islamic practices, so the question is by what guide/translation/understanding do you know the Quran? You?ve read it and a lot of people have and a lot of people, myself included have misunderstood verses. So what makes you think you read it with the right understanding?
Anyway I?ve asked many questions and you don?t need to answer them but at least think about it.
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Hi humanists
I disagree with your ideologies of islam
Why does islam limit your ability? I rather believe it does the opposite. Islam is a choice being muslim is a choice.
Really? So why did Muhammad write in threats of horrible fires of Hell for non believers in practically each page? Threats of how trinitarians, idolators, non believers in God, or in Hell etc will burn eternally? I know a friend who had the courage to leave Islam recently, she had unfortunately been held back many years due to threats of Hellfire.
Why do you restrict your life with laws, common sense or what your parents teach you?
Your conscious can also be fooled to believe in what is bad as good and what is good as bad.
Where did ?commonsense, morals and education? come from? Just by thinking, living? Ever heard of ?Essentialism?? you seem to take that approach.
Commonsense,morals etc certainly didn't come with Islam, they existed for millennia prior to Islam, indeed many religious books & many people who claimed to be Prophets-like Buddha, Jesus, Zarathushtra etc had taught excellent morals.
And the laws we live in are not 100% the same or equally fair/just. Why is it a man who rapes or kills get charged with different law sentences? 2 man can rape a girl and both men get different sentences, why? Where?s the logic? The fairness? The justice?
Laws bend and change cos of number cos of consensus (even unchallenged consensus) that doesn?t necessarily mean it is right. Even with numbers, if a government wants to do something it will. Such as America going to war. Ok the war wasn?t a law but where is the justice in that? Isn?t that government abusing power? Is that a safe not falling apart society?
Sure, laws bend & change, & religions sooner rather than later accept such changes. Islam is the slowest to adopt most often, but even it does.
Like the abolition of slavery, Muslim nations were the last to abandon slavery-Saudi outlawed it only in 1963, a millennia after USA & at Trinitarian Catholic Kennedy's request, but it finally did.
Positive changes more often than not come last in Islam, but come they do.
Or equal inheritance rights for women, currently Turkey has it, even other modern Muslim nations like Tunisia don't. Many non Muslim nations do.
Islam does retard these progress, but sooner rather than later, they happen.
I skipped a few posts what are you trying to say? That islam is intolerable? You mention why do we need Quran? I'll share my view..Quran is a guide and its underlying message can be found in different ways even without the Quran. However to attain a better level, following the guide would be necessary to further gain God consciousness. If you believe in the Quran and didn?t adhere to it, well I guess that would be a fault.
The Quran is a guide sure, but its incapability to be a good guide is amply demonstrated with all the societies which tried to adhere to it. Thats why we see so many Muslims, even from never colonized nations like Iran, or a past colonizer like Turkey moving to Western nations, thats why we see so many conflicts, & so much backwardness wherever the Quran is applied. Every sort of progress, from the abolition of slavery to equal inheritance of women happens last.
Let me tell you something ?you actually can!?. Why can?t you do it? Who is stopping you? I know a muslim lady who married a non muslim man, I know muslims who drink alcohol though I?m yet to meet a muslim who wishes to eat pork. But if you choose to do an action you have that choice.
No when Quranic laws are enforced, you don't. There are laws in multiple Muslim nations forbidding Muslim women from marrying non Muslim men, laws forbidding alcohol etc. Choice usually exists as long Muslims are not the majority, or if Quran & Islam is suppressed in favor of man made laws by the state.
If you don?t follow the Quran I would ask why? Because you feel it unnecessary because you feel your morals/common sense/ parental guidance are just and right and above all but how do you know that for sure? You seem to repulse Quran and include cultural traditions as part of muslim/Islamic practices, so the question is by what guide/translation/understanding do you know the Quran? You?ve read it and a lot of people have and a lot of people, myself included have misunderstood verses. So what makes you think you read it with the right understanding?
Not "cultural traditions" a common excuse amongst Muslims, but the Quran words itself show its not a great guide. It can always be excused if some people misunderstand verses, but if the majority of people who take up this guide do so, that really proves how poor a guide it is, especially is their non Muslim neighbours in similar circumstances don't.
Everywhere I see places which have tried to read it with the "right understanding" have ended up with messed up societies, only by sufficiently marginalizing it has any progress been made. I can easily compare the Muslims I see in Iran with the Bahais & Zoroastrians & see for myself.
Muslims escape from the poverty, social & economic problems in Islamic nations but still carry Islam with them coz they fail to realize that it was Islam which was responsible for those troubles.
Anyway I?ve asked many questions and you don?t need to answer them but at least think about it.
Thought about it. laugh I'm reminded of all the Muslims I met from various Islamic nations who often try to blame every problem in Islam on "Oh its culture, not religion," or, "They don't understand the real Quran," but conveniently escape to various non Muslim nations to settle down in places which don't follow the Quran as guidance, & try to give dawah to the people who've created these much better societies by not following the Quran! laugh
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Why does the quran matter? What if a person believes in God and not in any of the other requirements of Islam? what if I believe in God, live a virtous life, eat pork and drink alcohol (but don`t commit crimes).. Am I not as good a person as any Muslim?
I would actually say you're as good as a Muslim - a real muslim that is, please don't mistake us muslims for those extremist conservative gun crazed "muslims".
Not to be picky but it's spelled virtuous with a U.
Hatred of the infidel
Hatred of anybody who does not belive in the Quran
Disrespect for anybody who does not belive in what the Quran wants
Disregard for the beliefs of any person who has an opinion different to the QuranI don't think you read the Quran. Either you "read" the Quran by watching news segments about the extremist or you've accidentally read the hadith.
Live your lives in peace and live well.
I live my life in peace and wellness through Islam.
I read some of your post, not all of them, because it felt a bit redundant. It's like there was no real thought behind them.
Are you a troll or something? Instead of analyzing and keeping up an intellectual discussion you just kept knocking on anything anyone says, and any verses quoted by users for you to read.You're obviously not looking for answers, and you're not here to learn anything new. You're just here to push your opinions on us, and to tell us how wrong we are for believing. Does that make you any better than all the other extremist - trying to make everyone think like them?
If you're in peace with yourself and your beliefs then all I have to say is God bless you! But don't feel it's your duty to convert us to whatever it is you call yourself.
I'm happy as a Muslim, Islam gives me answers. If I had Islam taken away from me I wouldn't be happy anymore, I would be sad. Are you trying to make me sad, Humanist?
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Really? So why did Muhammad write in threats of horrible fires of Hell for non believers in practically each page? Threats of how trinitarians, idolators, non believers in God, or in Hell etc will burn eternally? I know a friend who had the courage to leave Islam recently, she had unfortunately been held back many years due to threats of Hellfire.
Remove the threat of punishment through application of law for twentyfour hours in America or any other society and see what happens and really the people are virtuous? Even when there was chance not to be caught in the darkness what happened?
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Fawzia
Really? So why did Muhammad write in threats of horrible fires of Hell for non believers in practically each page? Threats of how trinitarians, idolators, non believers in God, or in Hell etc will burn eternally? I know a friend who had the courage to leave Islam recently, she had unfortunately been held back many years due to threats of Hellfire.
What does this have to do with any limiting ability? She held back because of threats of hellfire? If she don?t believe in hell then why would it hold her back? Her concern is illogical. so is your thought
Obviously you just wanna pick an argument these questions weren't directed to you but you decided to put your 2cents in and be evasive to suit your need. at least have some courtesy.
BTW they?re not threats, they're warnings for those who wish to take heed and for the non muslims who don't believe in it,why should they be concerned they will have no problems for their mental/psychological state, unless off course they're doubting their beliefs and actually think hell fire exists for them.
Commonsense,morals etc certainly didn't come with Islam, they existed for millennia prior to Islam, indeed many religious books & many people who claimed to be Prophets-like Buddha, Jesus, Zarathushtra etc had taught excellent morals.
I didn?t say morals came with islam. Besides islam isn?t a religion as you may think, it?s a deen and there is a difference. Besides all, this islam confirms things of the past, things that are useful for us things that are on truth. It?s not like, hey this book is a new invention of how to make a wheel, the wheel was already invented the Quran just tells us how to go about using it in the best way. This isn?t the point but obviously you seem to think that muslim think, Quran is the only book that teaches morals. Common sense is an ideology people fail to realise that.
Sure, laws bend & change, & religions sooner rather than later accept such changes. Islam is the slowest to adopt most often, but even it does.
Like the abolition of slavery, Muslim nations were the last to abandon slavery-Saudi outlawed it only in 1963, a millennia after USA & at Trinitarian Catholic Kennedy's request, but it finally did.
Positive changes more often than not come last in Islam, but come they do.
Or equal inheritance rights for women, currently Turkey has it, even other modern Muslim nations like Tunisia don't. Many non Muslim nations do.
Islam does retard these progress, but sooner rather than later, they happen.
Islam retards nothing, people retard the world. If you had half a brain you'd realise the history of Saudi and know it's not a true representation of islam, Turkey is not much better nor Tunisia.
The Quran is a guide sure, but its incapability to be a good guide is amply demonstrated with all the societies which tried to adhere to it. Thats why we see so many Muslims, even from never colonized nations like Iran, or a past colonizer like Turkey moving to Western nations, thats why we see so many conflicts, & so much backwardness wherever the Quran is applied. Every sort of progress, from the abolition of slavery to equal inheritance of women happens last.
The countries you mention are pathetic examples. No country represents islam, the land is for all. The only thing that represents islam is Quran and people ?try? to adhere to it the way they know.
So the demonstration of the societies are not a reflection of Quran but rather peoples ideologies. Pity your thoughts are stuck with what you see.
No when Quranic laws are enforced, you don't. There are laws in multiple Muslim nations forbidding Muslim women from marrying non Muslim men, laws forbidding alcohol etc. Choice usually exists as long Muslims are not the majority, or if Quran & Islam is suppressed in favor of man made laws by the state.
Quranic laws are enforced? By who and what? Quranic law is a persons choice to take, force has no link with islam.
Not "cultural traditions" a common excuse amongst Muslims, but the Quran words itself show its not a great guide. It can always be excused if some people misunderstand verses, but if the majority of people who take up this guide do so, that really proves how poor a guide it is, especially is their non Muslim neighbours in similar circumstances don't.
no fawzia it proves peoples lack of ability to try and understand it. How many people learn Arabic to understand Quran and not just recite it like a parrot? The guide is there for people who wish to take it, if people don?t take it seriously or rely on others for guidance that?s their problem and possibly a problem for others to tolerate and deal with ignorance.
Everywhere I see places which have tried to read it with the "right understanding" have ended up with messed up societies, only by sufficiently marginalizing it has any progress been made. I can easily compare the Muslims I see in Iran with the Bahais & Zoroastrians & see for myself.
just because people try to do something it doesn't mean they do it right. your comparison of such muslims means nothing.
Thought about it. I'm reminded of all the Muslims I met from various Islamic nations who often try to blame every problem in Islam on "Oh its culture, not religion," or, "They don't understand the real Quran," but conveniently escape to various non Muslim nations to settle down in places which don't follow the Quran as guidance, & try to give dawah to the people who've created these much better societies by not following the Quran!
So all these people say its culture not religion, then maybe you should think twice about accusing something as Islamic or muslim, rather than accepting what the sheep tell you or the sheep you read.
Muslims escape from the poverty, social & economic problems in Islamic nations but still carry Islam with them coz they fail to realize that it was Islam which was responsible for those troubles.
Escape to non muslim nations? A lot of people migrate due to war or a better quality life and here you are bashing muslims?
Societies are built over time and injustices will break down.
Some people follow principles of Quran without even knowing it.Your malice to muslims and Quran is so strong it makes one wonder what are you doing here?