How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran
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To marry or have sex with a married woman is not allowed excep she becomes a slave. Two words can be used for a thing.
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you suggesting that MMA has two meanings?
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Take your time to study Q3350-52. A woman that offered herself is not MMA. Prophet should not marry anymore except MMA.
That which is decreed for the prophet in this case is different to us. He has rights that we don't in this case. We cannot relate those verses to us.
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Read the verses before 2233. It refers to divorced mothers.
I had done.
From 2226 onwards all verses are linked in a way to marriage. 2226 is at first unclear whether it's talking of marriage but because the next verse refers to the previous verse with the word talagh, it makes it clear that it is related. From there on all other verses upto 2233 have some clear implication of marriage. But 2333 has no signs of it being a marital relationship. It emphasises all mothers and all fathers "no mother shall be harmed....." and deliberately does not use the word talagh when talking of seperation.I know that you said that it is sandwiched between verses which talk of marriage but two things i want to point out
- 2233 could have used divorce mothers in place of just mothers but it did not do this for a reason.
- There are other exmaples of unrelated verses sandwiched in a topic. Look at 2238-239. The verses suddenly stop talking of marriage related issues and spends 2 verses talking of Salat before returning again to marriage related issues.
So the fact that it's sandwiched in marriage related verses does not make it exclusive to marriages. The words of 2333 IMO are clear on talking of all mothers and all fathers. Perhaps this could be that it is considering that the divorce has already happened and thus they are no longer husband or wife but again if anyone gets pregnant or anyone becomes a father wether within or outside a marriage that verse 2233 will surely apply to them.
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Whatever the circumstances in this verse, it doesn't mean that sex (which lead to the birth of a child) is allowed outside marriage. It could be rape or a one night stand. So other verses need to be taken into account.
In regards to 2238-239, maybe the definition of salat in these verses needs to be revised.
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235 And they keep covered their private parts.
236 Except around their spouses (azwaaj), or those who are maintained by their oaths (ma malakat aymanukum), they are free from blame.
237 But whoever seeks anything beyond this, then these are the transgressors.From these verses, it is clear that none should have access to the private parts except the following two categories Spouses (Azwaaj) and those who are committed to you by oaths (ma malakat aymanukum) Thus SO FAR sex can only be done with those two categories of people.
That's only one kind of person. Marriage is an oath.
As to the morality of casual sex, it is never harmless
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AUSrmWlGJs
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Whatever the circumstances in this verse, it doesn't mean that sex (which lead to the birth of a child) is allowed outside marriage. It could be rape or a one night stand. So other verses need to be taken into account.
In regards to 2238-239, maybe the definition of salat in these verses needs to be revised.
Are you suggesting that 2238-239 may possibly be related to marriage? Like the word salat to mean bond like a marriage bond?
About your point about rape or a one night stand. What happens if a husband rapes his wife? In all cases the father is responsible for the provisions. A father who has commited the crime of rape whether within or outside marriage will most likely not have the character to take such responsibility. Equally one night stands. AQ is not likely to appeal to those who uphold irresponsible one night stands. -
Are you suggesting that 2238-239 may possibly be related to marriage? Like the word salat to mean bond like a marriage bond?
About your point about rape or a one night stand. What happens if a husband rapes his wife? In all cases the father is responsible for the provisions. A father who has commited the crime of rape whether within or outside marriage will most likely not have the character to take such responsibility. Equally one night stands. AQ is not likely to appeal to those who uphold irresponsible one night stands.I'm not sure about what the 2 verses mean just yet but salat can mean different things so it could mean something in relation to marriage.
That's what I meant. The father is always responsible for the child no matter how the child was conceived whether its within marriage, rape or a one night stand. But of course, like you said, those who are irresponsible or immoral to have a one night stand or rape might not follow the Quran, thus refuse to take responsibility.
The advantage of marriage is that the woman and child are protected and the man will be held equally responsible if a woman gets pregnant.
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That's only one kind of person. Marriage is an oath.
As to the morality of casual sex, it is never harmless
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AUSrmWlGJs
How can they be the same when MMA are part of the group that are permitted for marriage? Once you marry them they are no longer MMA.
Thank you for the video. We should keep these things in mind. -
I'm not sure about what the 2 verses mean just yet but salat can mean different things so it could mean something in relation to marriage.
That's what I meant. The father is always responsible for the child no matter how the child was conceived whether its within marriage, rape or a one night stand. But of course, like you said, those who are irresponsible or immoral to have a one night stand or rape might not follow the Quran, thus refuse to take responsibility.
The advantage of marriage is that the woman and child are protected and the man will be held equally responsible if a woman gets pregnant.
There is clear advantages to a relationship which has become a marriage but how is this advantage of marriage which you point to related to 2233? On the part about the fathers, it does not go beyond talking about him being responsible for provisions of the child. It could be that the father of a relationship outside of a marriage is a much better father and takes much responsibility then another father who is in a marriage.
Marriage as far as i know, does not bring an advantage to this.
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There is clear advantages to a relationship which has become a marriage but how is this advantage of marriage which you point to related to 2233? On the part about the fathers, it does not go beyond talking about him being responsible for provisions of the child. It could be that the father of a relationship outside of a marriage is a much better father and takes much responsibility then another father who is in a marriage.
Marriage as far as i know, does not bring an advantage to this.
I meant if there was a legal contract between them or at least they are known to the public as a couple, then the father can't flee from his responsibilities. You might think this won't happen but it does and single mothers are left to take care of their child on their own with no financial help from the father.
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I meant if there was a legal contract between them or at least they are known to the public as a couple, then the father can't flee from his responsibilities. You might think this won't happen but it does and single mothers are left to take care of their child on their own with no financial help from the father.
well put bravo
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13800.0
Noah tried to help the then poor ladies but now the law of the land, in the west anyway, does help greatly.
peace
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Peace all
peaceThe purpose of this article is to argue against the widely accepted belief that the Quran prohibits sex before marriage. I intend to do this by using the Quran to justify a case of pre-marital sex where it is acceptable in the light of the Quran.
I have had a similar view for a while now. From my perception, the Quran advises against casual sex but not against premarital sex. One does not share a bond with a one night stand, it is just sex. However, a gf and bf are committed to each other by oath. They have developed a bond and care about each other deeply. Is a gf or bf not whom your right hand possesses?
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Hi, nimnimak!
A very interesting thread, i must say.
If you've made up your mind about this--maybe the only thing left to do is ... practice? Because i can't help but notice so many could be's in this thread. So why not just let it be? Or at least, maybe steal other ppl's experiences for more insights? Maybe friends, relatives who've been there done that. Just maybe...
Also, anyone noticed the youngest age we've known yet of two human beings having sex (by their own will)? Or youngest mothers to give birth ever?
What i mean is, what is/are the boundary/ies for sex then, if not marriage--age? biology? psychology/emotion? self-control? economy? supply/availability? An oath? Oral or written? And how binding is this oath? One-to-one relationship only, or something more than that? (if there's any limit, where in AQ do we have that reMMA?)
I'm in for good discussions )
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Looks like John Edwards and wife are split
Edwards Admits Fathering Love Child, Reportedly Separates From Wife
Former presidential candidate John Edwards has admitted fathering his former campaign videographer's child.
Former Sen. John Edwards arrives with his wife Elizabeth for the late Sen. Edward Kennedy's memorial service in Boston Aug. 28, 2009. (AP Photo)
Former presidential candidate John Edwards has admitted fathering his former campaign videographer's child.In a statement released to NBC News, Edwards said, "I am Quinn?s father. ... It was wrong for me ever to deny she was my daughter and hopefully one day, when she understands, she will forgive me."
Friends of the family said that Edwards and wife, Elizabeth, have separated, NBC reported.
The admission comes after months of denials from Edwards that he fathered former mistress Rielle Hunter's daughter, Frances Quinn. The revelation also comes a week before his former campaign aide, Andrew Young, is set to appear in an ABC News interview saying he posed as the father when the scandal first broke as a favor to Edwards.
The two-time presidential candidate also admitted to providing financial support to the child and said in the statement that he has "reached an agreement with her mother to continue providing support in the future."
"To all those I have disappointed and hurt these words will never be enough, but I am truly sorry," Edwards said.
Young's interview is scheduled to air on ABC next Friday, but may be pushed forward.
Previous reports have claimed that a secret DNA test proved Edwards' paternity to the child.
The test was taken after Hunter tried to get financial help from Edwards for Frances.
Edwards admitted in August 2008 to an affair with Hunter that he says ended in 2006. That year, Edwards' political action committee paid Hunter's video production firm $100,000 for work. Then the committee paid another $14,086 on April 1, 2007.
A federal grand jury last year investigated whether Edwards broke campaign finance law by paying "hush" money to Hunter and Young over the affair.
http//www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/21/report-john-edwards-set-admit-paternity-love-child/
Thats what happens elektro
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Peace nimnimak,
Let us look at it like this
The post basically was meant to prove a point, which is non prohibition of premarital sex by quran and the argument essentially was based on the understanding that MMA are among the group we can have sex with yet they are not our spouse/wives.Ref 424But if we understand MMA to mean slaves, the argument for premarital sex is arrested.
Now,an argument against MMA = those possessed by your oath/those you have bond with is that, In 3350-52, the merciful lord mentioned woman that offered herself to the prophet.This woman offered herself, a bond, yet not label as MMA, still and more importantly,in the same verse the prophet was told not to mary any more except MMA. This to me is proving that MMA is not = those you have a bond with.Note, I am not unaware of the fact that the provision therein was meant for the prophet alone.
Meanwhile, with the understanding that MMA means slaves, the interpretation for 424 is this ..and not allowed are muhsanat except that they become your slaves, in which case, their status as married becomes null and void.
You have argued that in 2221, a different label was used for slaves, you see, language is our invention,and the lord spoke to us in that language,In any human language, we have words/labels representing a thing and sometimes,a word/label represent more than a thing.Infact, this is the basis of ambiguity in our languages.
Therefore, the fact that a different label was used for slaves is not enough to conclude that MMA can't be taken to mean slaves.THINK ABOUT IT.
ZUBAIRUS
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Peace nimnimak,
Let us look at it like this
The post basically was meant to prove a point, which is non prohibition of premarital sex by quran and the argument essentially was based on the understanding that MMA are among the group we can have sex with yet they are not our spouse/wives.Ref 424But if we understand MMA to mean slaves, the argument for premarital sex is arrested.
Now,an argument against MMA = those possessed by your oath/those you have bond with is that, In 3350-52, the merciful lord mentioned woman that offered herself to the prophet.This woman offered herself, a bond, yet not label as MMA, still and more importantly,in the same verse the prophet was told not to mary any more except MMA. This to me is proving that MMA is not = those you have a bond with.Note, I am not unaware of the fact that the provision therein was meant for the prophet alone.
Meanwhile, with the understanding that MMA means slaves, the interpretation for 424 is this ..and not allowed are muhsanat except that they become your slaves, in which case, their status as married becomes null and void.
You have argued that in 2221, a different label was used for slaves, you see, language is our invention,and the lord spoke to us in that language,In any human language, we have words/labels representing a thing and sometimes,a word/label represent more than a thing.Infact, this is the basis of ambiguity in our languages.
Therefore, the fact that a different label was used for slaves is not enough to conclude that MMA can't be taken to mean slaves.THINK ABOUT IT.
ZUBAIRUS
Great that is what i understand handshake
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(1) THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.
(2) THOU SHALT NOT MAKE UNTO THEE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, VISITING THE INIQUITY (SINS) OF THE FATHERS UPON THE CHILDREN UNTO THE THIRD AND FOURTH GENERATION of them that hate Me. And showing MERCY unto thousands of them that love me, and KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.
(3) THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
(4) REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; But the Seventh Day (not the first) is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the Seventh day; wherefore the Lord BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY and HALLOWED IT.
(5) HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER; that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
(6) THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
(7) THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.
( THOU SHALT NOT STEAL.
(9) THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS (LIE) against thy neighbour.
(10) THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOUR'S HOUSE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOUR'S WIFE, NOR HIS MANSERVANT, NOR HIS MAIDSERVANT, NOR HIS OX, NOR HIS ASS, NOR ANY THING THAT IS THY NEIGHBOUR'S."
.
Genesis 209 "a great sin"
Genesis 347 "which thing ought not to be done"
2 Samuel 1312
Jeremiah 1327
Ezekiel 163-22
1 Corinthians 618
2 Corinthians 1221II. What is the difference between fornication and adultery?
A. Fornication is the illicit sexual intercourse of unmarried persons.
1 Corinthians 69, 18
B. To commit adultery is to have sexual relations with someone other
than one's own spouse (husband or wife).Jeremiah 2923; 57-8
Proverbs 629, 32; etc.- The scriptures also consider remarriage after divorce to be adultery.
Matthew 532; 199
- Even looking at someone with a lustful heart is adultery.
Matthew 528
III. The Bible is not silent on the subject of premarital relations.
A. Sexual intercourse is to be confined to marriage.
Genesis 341-7, 31
B. Marriage is God's provision for the release of sexual desire.
1 Corinthians 72
Hebrews 134C. Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 522-23). If a couple
cannot restrain themselves, Paul said that they should go ahead and
marry (1 Corinthians 79, 36-37).D. Consider the following accounts of fornication in Scripture.
- Schechem and Dinah
Genesis chapter 34
- Tamar and Amnon
2 Samuel chapter 13
IV. Fornication and adultery are absolutely forbidden by God.
Genesis 209
Exodus 2014 (Deuteronomy 518; Matthew 5;27; 1918;
Mark 1019; Luke 1820; Romans 139; James 211)
Leviticus 1820
Deuteronomy 2317-18
2 Samuel 1312
Matthew 1434 (Mark 617-1
1 Corinthians 615; 108A. These sins are exceedingly "evil" and "wicked" in God's sight.
Genesis 399
Leviticus 1929
Deuteronomy 2222-24, etc.
1 Samuel 222-23
1 Corinthians 513B. They greatly displease God (Hosea 41-2, 11) and provoke Him to
anger (Numbers 251, 3; Ezekiel 1626; Colossians 35-6).C. God abhors them.
Proverbs 2214
D. "For this is a heinous crime" (Job 311, 9-12), "villainy" (Jeremiah
2922-23) and filthiness (Revelation 174).E. "They know not the light" but "are in the terrors of the shadow of death"
(Job 2415-17). It is "the way of hell;" "the dead are there" (Proverbs 727;
913-1.F. The words of anyone who defends such "unfruitful works of darkness"
(Ephesians 53, 11-12) are "contrary to sound doctrine" (1 Timothy 19-10).V. Adultery and fornication are serious offenses.
A. Under the law, such acts were counted worthy of death.
Genesis 203, 7, 17; 2611
Leviticus 2010-12
2 Samuel 12
Proverbs 216-19; 75-27
Romans 129, 32- Burned.
Genesis 3815, 24
Leviticus 219- Stoned.
Deuteronomy 2213-21, cp. John 84-5
B. In the days of the early church, fornication was considered just cause
for excommunication from the fellowship of believers.1 Corinthians 51-2, 9-12
C. Fornication justifies divorce.
Deuteronomy 2213-21
Matthew 532; 199 (Mark 1012)D. In the Old Testament, fornication and adultery symbolized unfaithfulness to God,
either by idolatry or backsliding in general.Jeremiah 31, 6, 8, 9, 14, etc.
Ezekiel 69; 1636, etc.
Hosea 12;411-12; 31
Acts 1529E. Such offenses are self-defiling (Leviticus 1820, 24, 30; 1 Corinthians 618-20)
and can lead to one's own spiritual destruction.Proverbs 216, 18-19 "unto death"
Proverbs 627-29, 32 "destroyeth his own soul"
Proverbs 913-18 "the dead are there ... in the depths of hell"
Genesis 203, 7 "thou art but a dead man ... for she is a man's wife"F. Scripture lists fornication and adultery with such sins as murder, witchcraft, robbery, idolatry, etc.
Hosea 42
Romans 221
Acts 1529; 2125
1 Corinthians 69-10
Revelation 921G. The offense shall be met with severe judgment.
Proverbs 627-29, 32
Ezekiel 1638, 40-41
Malachi 35
Hebrews 134- Fornicators and adulterers shall not be allowed in the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 69-10, 18
Galatians 519, 21
Ephesians 55-6
Revelation 2215- They shall be tormented eternally in the lake of fire.
Jude 7
Revelation 218VI. Why is this considered such a serious offense?
A. "Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth
fornication sinneth against his own body."1 Corinthians 615-20, esp. verse 18
B. God desires a walk of consecration and holiness within His people.
Leviticus 217, 13-14
2 Corinthians 61
1 Thessalonians 43
Titus 211-12C. Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 316-17; 613-20
D. The sin is self-defiling.
Ezekiel 23
Matthew 1519-20
Mark 720-23
1 Corinthians 615-20E. It influences others by bad example.
2 Samuel 1214
Nahum 34
Romans 132
Revelation 214, 20F. An attitude of sexual permissiveness pollutes the entire nation.
Leviticus 1824-28; 1929
Jeremiah 32, 9
Nahum 34
Revelation 192VII. Fornication and adultery should especially have no place among the people of God.
2 Samuel 1312
Romans 221-22
1 Corinthians 51-5, 9-13
Ephesians 417-20
Hebrews 1216A. Such a way of life was expected of us before we were saved.
Ephesians 22-3
Colossians 37, 5-6
Titus 33-5- In describing the extent of moral corruption among unbelievers, the
Bible says, "the land is full of adulterers." "...they committed adultery,
and assembled themselves by troops in the harlot's houses."
Jeremiah 2310; 57
- The world has hardened their hearts to the extent that they actually
feel no guilt or shame for such wrongdoing.
Proverbs 3018-20 "She saith, I have done no wickedness."
B. Christians are commanded to "flee," "avoid," and "abstain from fornication."
Acts 1520, 29
1 Corinthians 618 (cp. Genesis 3912); 72
1 Thessalonians 43
2 Timothy 222- "Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed,
and fell in one day three and twenty thousand."
1 Corinthians 108
- "But fornication, and all uncleanness ... let it not be once named among
you, as becometh saints ... For ye know that no whoremonger, nor
unclean person ... hath any inheritance in the kingdom..."
Ephesians 53, 5
- "For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should
abstain from fornication that every one of you should know how to
possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of
concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God ... For
God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness."
1 Thessalonians 43-7
C. When a person gives his life to Jesus, he is expected to put aside the
evil practices of his former way of life.2 Corinthians 1221
Ephesians 417-20D. We are forbidden even to fellowship with those who do such acts.
1 Corinthians 51-5, 9-13
Ephesians 311-12; 511VIII. Scripture describes fornication and adultery as "a deep ditch" and
"narrow pit" (Proverbs 2214; 2327-2, because the lustful intentions
behind them are deadly (Proverbs 726; James 115) and deceitful
(2 Samuel 133-5, etc.; Proverbs 53-4; 710).A. They are works of the flesh.
Galatians 519-21
- They originate in the heart.
Matthew 528; 1519
Mark 721; 1011
Luke 1618- They spring from an evil lust.
1 Corinthians 106
1 Thessalonians 43-5, 7- Because lust is especially aroused by the sight of the eyes (Matthew
52, the Word of God specifically exhorts Christians to "adorn
themselves in modest apparel" (1 Timothy 28-9; cp. 1 Peter 33;
Isaiah 316-24).
Genesis 342 "saw"
Genesis 381-24 "saw"
Genesis 397-12 "cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said,
'Lie with me'"
Judges 161 "saw"
2 Samuel 111-5 "he saw a woman washing herself, and the
woman was very beautiful to look upon"B. There is a great difference between love and lust.
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"Love is of God" (1 John 47) and gives (John 316; 1 Corinthians
135). Lust is evil and seeks its own satisfaction (2 Samuel 1312, 14). -
While love is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 522-23), fornication and
adultery are works of the flesh (Galatians 519-21). -
Love can wait; lust cannot.
2 Samuel 1313-14
C. The result of yielding to fleshly lusts is corruption.
1 Corinthians 316-17; 108
Galatians 68
James 115- Murder.
2 Samuel 111-5
- Rape.
2 Samuel 131-20
D. God can provide victory over lustful temptations (Romans 611-14;
Galatians 516, 24-25; 2 Peter 29-10, 14), but it takes an act of our will.- "Cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light."
Romans 1312
- "Mortify therefore ..."
Colossians 35
- "Flee youthful lusts."
1 Corinthians 618
2 Timothy 222- "Put off ... the old man ... put on the new ..."
Ephesians 422-24
IX. Fornication and adultery are not unforgivable sins, if repented.
Matthew 2131-32
Titus 33-5
Revelation 221A. Some examples in scripture (in which God forgave the offense)
- Rahab the harlot.
Joshua 21; 617, cp. Hebrews 1131 and James 225
- King David.
2 Samuel 1213, cp. 114
- The prodigal son.
Luke 1530, 32
- The woman in the temple.
John 83-11
- Early church believers.
1 Corinthians 69-11 "such were (past tense) some of you but ye are washed..."
B. However, we sometimes must face punishing consequences in this life
(according to the law of sowing and reaping).2 Samuel 1211-14
C. Many will never repent of the offense and for them there can be no forgiveness.
2 Corinthians 1221
Revelation 921- "Being past feeling," and having a "seared conscience," they gave
"them selves over unto lasciviousness (Lit., sensuality; erotic lust)."
Ephesians 419
- Therefore, "God gave them up" (they became reprobate).
Romans 128-29, 32
http//www.dianedew.com/adulforn.htm
elektro