Taking off the Hijab
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Peace Wakas,
Just reading Asad?s notes
The specific, time-bound formulation of the above verse (evident in the reference to the wives and daughters of the Prophet), as well as the deliberate vagueness of the recommendation that women "should draw upon themselves some of their outer garments min jalabibihinna)" when in public, makes it clear that this verse was not meant to be an injunction (hukm) in the general, timeless sense of this term but, rather, a moral guideline to be observed against the ever-changing background of time and social environment. This finding is reinforced by the concluding reference to God?s forgiveness and grace.(Quran Ref 3359 )
Anyway I think we are assuming harm is taking place.. I didn?t take that assumption. I just understood it as it?s more suitable to be recognised.. so if you?re out in the city take that precaution if you wish to or/and if there is harm.
I agree with Asad how it?s not an injunction because why would God be forgiving of someone intentionally going against the law? So I see it as a preference not necessarily a specific hukm.
what?s interesting is these women aren?t properly recognised so there is a need for recognition. The recognition would protect them and not confuse the perpetrator..
I dunno but I feel more inclined that it?s a general preferred rule than a situation of harm specific rule..
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Yah I did away go to University, and do now live in my own place. But oh i fought so hard for everything in this life. My parents were just the kind of people who made it a big deal if I wanted to go to the mall or movies.
They were aghast at me living in my own place now, but fights are easier now. My intention was not to hurt my family, but I feel held back when I am home. I want to grow as a person, not get stuck at one point.
Also, I paid full expenses for when I was at away at University, Tuition, Rent, Food etc. Even now I am paying my own rent. Money is not the only issue, but being financially independent does help.
Inshallah you will get to a place as well where you do not feel like your freedom is restricted. That may be close to your family or away. We don't know what the future holds eh.
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welcome to the forum and thanks for the compliment about our Humor. ;D
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Q3359 is about married women & daughters of the prophet - not all women! If we notice it the verse is very clear.
Okay okay Omeiza. I think it's common across the board that we don't believe it's obligatory! The girls are not onto the topic of HOW to take it off appropriately Okay )
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You know if I had not gone away for University, I may have still been wearing a Hijab. So I know how difficult it is for you. I would never judge you, or make a comment like what's the big deal, just take it off. All I can do is give advice, and taking the slow approach seems to work. I did get looks about my hijab bandanna, but no actual comments to my face. But I have always been known as radical/eccentric, won't go with the flow, so I don't know if that made it easier.
As for my family being liberal, I dont know. Their values change depending on the context, and can even change from day to day. My family is complicated, just like any other family is. They may drop dead if they knew half the things that went through my head, especially on my beliefs.
At the same time, while I did not feel the hijab represented who I was a person, its not like i want to deck out all in lululemon either, like every other 20 something female here seems to. I am still stuck as an " in between" person, and I have decided I am going to embrace it, not just with my clothes (not hijab, not lululemon, but my own unique style) but with my beliefs, my interests, the way I interact with people etc. etc. We will see how it goes.
Do you feel the same way, that along with taking off the hijab (one change), there are other changes you want to implement too?
I'm just waiting patiently to get to University soon enough. I think my personality will shift with it. I've become incredible reclusive since I began to wear it. I think I can identify with you about the fact that it might be something that you can identify with at a phase in your life, and I don't knock those who wear it or wouldn't consider taking it off, there are many reasons in favour of it and you know, I slightly admire them too. But for me personally, it doesn't represent what is within me any more. I'll take it off when I can make a fresh start and I'll be making some steps to return to my old self again, I miss being me and hijab doesn't represent me anymore.
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My relationship with hijab is a weird one.
I used to wear it in my early 20's as I thought it was required. Then I started using my own eyes and brain and came to the conclusion that it wasnt obligatory, so I took it off. I was lucky in that I didnt have any pressures either way from family on whether I wore it or not. Then I got married and wore it when living with my inlaws as they are Sunni.
Now Im in my own place and wear what I please so I dont wear a headscarf. However, I miss it because I think I look better with it on. D
You can buy some nice scarves these days and sometimes I feel like wearing it because it looks nice and not because of the meaning behind it. But, if I do wear it, I feel like Im cheating on my 'Quran alone' beliefs..Weird huh?
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peace Sarah,
Anyway I think we are assuming harm is taking place.. I didn?t take that assumption.
But the sequence is
3358 says "and those who harm believing men/women......."
3359 discusses modification of jilbab for women
3360 says "and if they (perpetrators) do not cease/desist/refrain..."Is the harm mentioned in 3358 then an unrelated coincidence, and general statement not related to 3359?
Also, what do you make of the Arabic word "yantahi"?If it means "cease/desist/refrain" then it definitely means harm was taking place, this will be a fact.
The recognition would protect them and not confuse the perpetrator..
That is not strictly true. That is why Asad uses "more conducive", because the Arabic literally says "that is more suitable/better that they be recognised and not harmed" NOT "modify jilbab so then they will not be harmed", as we all know a modification in jilbab does not guarantee no harm.
There are other problems for this non situation-specific view, as mentioned in the other thread, but remained unanswered.
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Peace all
Thanks for the welcome Munzir.
I don't think your relationship with the hijab is weird, Halihan. Many people wear it as a fashion statement. I personally think my main reason for wearing one, was my pride in being Muslim. After donning it, I came to realize, I was not really like any of the other hijab wearers.
My last year in highschool, I was with 2 muslim friends. One that wore a hijab, and one that did not. The one that did not said "I don't understand the reasons for wearing the hijab". Neither me or my other friend said anything to her. I always respected other people's beliefs, regardless of my outfits. But I remember thinking then, that this friend would never pray without hijab, or enter a mosque without hijab. You cannot have it both ways, if its obligatory, then its obligatory all the time, prayer or otherwise.
However, now that I no longer wear the hijab, I still pray wearing one, not because I believe that God won't accept my prayer without it. But its hard to break habits that have been formed since birth. While rituals may have little meaning, there is a degree of comfort in them.
What are your thoughts in this matter ?
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Even though I dont wear a headscarf outside, I wear a huge chador type head covering while praying. ( The ones that are cut in a half circle that go from the head to just above the knee)
The reason I wear it for prayer is because it helps me to focus and when I pull it low over myself, it gives me a feeling of spirituality and I feel like Im in a kind of meditative state to pray.
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Peace all
Thanks Kukumber
My parents were just the kind of people who made it a big deal if I wanted to go to the mall or movies.
I might have to get some tips from you haha
Omeiza interesting thought however ?nisa almumineen? can be seen as women who are mumineen.
Halihan
It doesn?t seem weird, at least i don't think so. Sometimes I think if I took it off I bet I?d wanna wear it again.. sometimes.I think I look better in it too D haha
I don?t think you?re cheating if you wear it. it?s not ?haram?
Wakas
I guess you?re right, I paid little attention to 3358Yeh yantahi is stop/cease etc.
That is not strictly true. That is why Asad uses "more conducive", because the Arabic literally says "that is more suitable/better that they be recognised and not harmed" NOT "modify jilbab so then they will not be harmed", as we all know a modification in jilbab does not guarantee no harm.
Not strictly but partly, the aim is to be identified and thus this identification would aim to protect (assumption) but then we know later that the perpetrator may continue to harm. I guess I took it as less likely to but yes it is possible as you have pointed out.
Thanks for that
Kukumber
However, now that I no longer wear the hijab, I still pray wearing one, not because I believe that God won't accept my prayer without it. But its hard to break habits that have been formed since birth. While rituals may have little meaning, there is a degree of comfort in them.
What are your thoughts in this matter ?
Well I don?t think it?s ?haram?, it?s just something that comforts you. At least you recognise the difference between doing it for comfort or doing it out of religious obligation.
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peace
kinda, not exactly it's subjective and different with everything...whatever agrees with them.
In regards to my Quranic views they're not known just slightly hinted through discussions. i don't believe anyone would take my side in that regard. my sis might but i hate the idea of relying on others for support.
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Oh Sarah, I didnt mean your religious views per se.
I was more thinking in terms of you obtaining more freedom, if you and siblings were in agreement, you could with solidarity, make it easier for your parents to loosen up a bit, rather than each sibling tackling their issues alone.
But then, I know very little about your family. I know with mine if we lived in the same house, our relationship would have soured to the point of not even talking to each other, so I am happy with the way things are now. Close but not too close.
I also don't know what you really want, but you could when you graduate, try for jobs in a different city. If you go away for even 1 year, and come back, you would be able to explore your faith, without their restrictions. Also your family may then find it easier to treat you as an independent adult.
Haha, I have probably gone way off topic, but it always scares me when I see Muslim girls live exclusively with their parents, until marriage, and then live with a husband. While most parents have the best of intentions, it doesn't change the fact that these girls are missing out on a part of life.
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My bro?s are quite traditional and overly protective. They would rather be my chaperone at the shopping centre than me being alone without a mahram. So it?s not exactly easy probably if I went shopping everyday and took hours and hours they?d get so fed up and give up. But I don?t like to cause problems.
I?m dominated by males so it?s kinda difficult but it?s ok I?ve dealt with it forever it?s nothing new. The only good thing with freedom would be to have space on my own with peace and quiet, when uni starts I can have that so I?m not fussed I can wait, I?m just wishful
I also don't know what you really want, but you could when you graduate, try for jobs in a different city. If you go away for even 1 year, and come back, you would be able to explore your faith, without their restrictions. Also your family may then find it easier to treat you as an independent adult
It?s a possibility but unlikely, I don?t wanna create more problems for myself. I still explore my faith Alhamdulillah.
thanks for the idea
Peace
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Wow just followed this discussion now... I also wear the hijab, but have been debating it with myself for maybe over 3 years now... like many have said, I used to wear it covering my neck etc... then I went to Spain and the Spanish muslims wear it in a gorgeous way, so copied their style (ish) and so now my neck shows (has been that way for over a couple of years) but I always have a thin polo top on so only half a neck really... then in the winter i wear beanies which are great for just running out to the shops or something... about taking it off completely... i did it once but felt guilty about it.... i dont want to take it off out of arrogance because im bored of wearing it... but at the same time i know its not in the quran... then again... it has helped me a lot... i dont think i would be so confident in dressing modestly if i wasnt wearing it... i have friends who took it off and the backlast was huge from the community but also i look at the way they dress now and the sleeves and pants get shorter and shorter as more time without hijab go by till they end up in spagetti tops and mini skirts... i dont want to end up that extreme either and im worried that if i take it off, a few years down the line thats what will happen because its so easy to get sucked into fashion and finding "solutions" to revealing clothes (eg. ill keep a cardigan over the spagetti top.. then that comes off / ill wear tights under my skirt ... they they go)
Does that make sense? I think many people on this site hate hijab and have a very negative attitude towards it, but really i dont hate it... i just dont believe in it anymore...I think when someone has worn it for a while it becomes so hard to take it off... also im not looking forward to the extra morning time ill have to spend sorting my hair out before work.... lol
