How masturbation is against the quran let alone sex before marriage
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Apparently this is just your delusion since no one actually said this. In fact what was actually said was the exact opposite by "RA"
" I believe that When you Marry and have a Child, it is Probabily one of the Greatest Spiritual/Physical Rituals you can have partake in, and it will help get you to a Higher level in Spiritual Evolution."
So "RA" believes that having more children merits you more grace from God, of course as he himself admitted, this is just his own personal opinion, with zero scriptual support. He also claimed that the life of chastity was "ridiculous", no one said married life was ridiculous though.
No one's running away, all this is in your head. All that has been said is that some people don't feel the need to run towards marriage and children.
Can you understand? One's mind and soul might be more inclined to less worldly endeavours.
Nice catch phrase, but our Lord would disagree, see 2433 and especially the second half of 425, where the virginal state is superior to certain lawful marriages.
So you say. In contrast, see what our Lord says about obstinately clinging to family at 923-24 and see the stories of Abraham and his father, as well as Noah and his son.
More delusions, the word seclusion has not appeared in this thread in any way. Well we see where your mind is, don't we? Don't say sorry to me, your problem is with God and what He has revealed.
Riiight it's "shyness"...it's not the verses cited from sacred scipture.
I said don't be "of the world". not don't live in it. Maybe you should try reading the thread.
Maybe you should forget about your "spiritual teachers" and focus on the only One who can guide to truth and read His word.
So some people just might be saved outside of marriage, well how generous of you! It's clear you and others are just too arrogant to accept what our Lord has said.
Oh wait you mean like being satisfied/contented outside of the marriage state (2433)??
"5720 KNOW that the life of this world is but a play and a passing delight, and a beautiful show, and your boastful vying with one another, and greed for more and more riches and children."
awww how nice, after a paragraph of pure venom and lies.
Anyone who is honest can see that all I ever said was that there were valid, scriptural reasons to remain chaste; and that it makes perfect sense to choose this route for spiritual reasons. This was in response to "RA" who ridiculed chastity and could not understand why anyone would not want to marry. It remains obvious and indisputable that marriage and children are worldly goods and a fitna see 6414-15. Moreover, our Lord has given detailed guidelines on who we can and cannot marry. If marriage were spiritually superior, in and of itself, He would not have given us these restrictions. As it stands the virginal state is superior to everything, except marriage to a believer. The sanctified marriage is righteous befor the Lord and so is that state of chastity that is done with taqwa.
It is not that being married and having children gives you points automatically, it is that what you go through forces you to change and become more conscious of God, if you want, and sometimes in spite of your not wanting to.
And, Hoppean, do not kid yourself that I have noticed you so much as to want to put any venom or whatever or do any of the wonders which you attribute to me. This I say as not to overwork yourself tryingo to put me down. I am down all by myself. So on that count you can make some better use of your energy an time and also spare some fits.
Salaam
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The word is yughniyahumu (Ghayn-Noon-Ya); and a better translation would be satisfied/content imo. Wehr's has as the first definition "to be free from want" "to not need". I think content/satisfied is more appropriate in this context, it's the IV entry in Wehr's.
So I take it is related to quran 424... which makes it clear that man is supposed to has the responsibility to provide for women.
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fftopic why get out our attention falsely for masturbation and the quran???
Anywho.. I married for love, I married the most righteous mate for myself. BELIEVING MEN ARE FOR BELIEVING WOMEN. We did not marry for the money, we met and we were both going through some rough times. We did not marry for looks, he had some skin problems(acne etc...) and I had a few extra pounds and scars. We kept each other going by our faith, beliefs, values and we have came up from almost nothing together. I am one of the lucky ones to have a wonderful mate.
BECAUSE masturbation is one of the results of where men are told to be chaste as well look at women... but as well as those who have little to do. I call this type of masturbation... inducing oneself to pleasure. We see this in the form of gangs, drugs, porn, all to get away from the boredom of not doing anything.
I myself know that when a man has no job, he becomes more sexually aggressive, demand more pleasure from his woman of whatever sorts.
You married for yourselves... we marry for the god.
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Starting with the topic, the qur'an did not talk about masturbation (solitary sex) - it is at our discretion.
I disagree, this verse is key to understanding masturbation, as well as the cause of masturbation, as well as the cures for those men who cannot find partners
The word is yughniyahumu (Ghayn-Noon-Ya); and a better translation would be satisfied/content imo. Wehr's has as the first definition "to be free from want" "to not need". I think content/satisfied is more appropriate in this context, it's the IV entry in Wehr's.
That's an interesting look.
"And as for those who are unable to marry, let them live in continence"
What I'm after is why M Asad translates walyastafifi as "and ....live in continence"
http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=%2824337%29
Back to the "unable to marry" such as nikan, what is the requirement from the quran other than quran 424 that of responsibility to provide for women's needs?
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So "RA" believes that having more children merits you more grace from God, of course as he himself admitted, this is just his own personal opinion, with zero scriptual support. He also claimed that the life of chastity was "ridiculous", no one said married life was ridiculous though.
I actually did not say that....If you want to be technical. In fact this is just a Conclusion tha you yourself have come to.
Lets Look at my Quote again that you posted." I believe that When you Marry and have a Child, it is Probabily one of the Greatest Spiritual/Physical Rituals you can have partake in, and it will help get you to a Higher level in Spiritual Evolution."
I NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER Said that IT IS or that IT WILL....
I said that It is "PROBABILY ONE OF" and "HELP" Key word...."HELP" get you to a higher level of "SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION".To be even more technical for you..."SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION" is not the word "GRACE FROM GOD" that you have posted. I NEVER said It was GRACE FROM GOD....Rather I used the Phrase "Spiritual Evolution". NOT GRACE FROM GOD.
So to be Technical....You say users are Delusional yet....You yourself have proven that you Take what I write...and then RE-Make it according to your own view.
I NEVER said IT IS or WAS Grace from God.I used the Words Probabily, ONE OF, and Spiritual Evolution....(and Personal Opinion).
And I think you are Guilty of Generalizing....Because I DONT AND NEVER SAID that Chasity was Rediculous. I HAVE NOTHING against Chasity...Since Chasity is actually an Islamic Concept in the Quran. Rather I was speaking more about CELLEBACY...which is Remotly CLOSE to Chasity or contains Chasity however is NOT the EXACT same as CHASITY since CHASITY is a Broad Word with a Broad Meaning.
I DO NOT think CELLEBACY is Rediculous...RATHER, I said that CELLEBACY FOR INVALID REASONS is Consittered Rediculous in MY BELIEF.
KEY WORD INVALID. I think that ONLY INVALID REASONS for Cellebacy is Rediculous.
A VALID REASON for Cellebacy in my opinion would be a Severe Handicap. (as I stated before)...
JUST trying to clarify for you to avoid any further Confusion.
PEace/Salaam ;D D
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I actually did not say that....If you want to be technical. In fact this is just a Conclusion tha you yourself have come to. Lets Look at my Quote again that you posted.
" I believe that When you Marry and have a Child, it is Probabily one of the Greatest Spiritual/Physical Rituals you can have partake in, and it will help get you to a Higher level in Spiritual Evolution."
I NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER Said that IT IS or that IT WILL....
I said that It is "PROBABILY ONE OF" and "HELP" Key word...."HELP" get you to a higher level of "SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION".
To be even more technical for you..."SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION" is not the word "GRACE FROM GOD" that you have posted. I NEVER said It was GRACE FROM GOD....Rather I used the Phrase "Spiritual Evolution". NOT GRACE FROM GOD.
This is amazing dishonesty! You clearly describe marriage/having children as "probably one of the greatest spiritual/physical rituals". As in, "it might not be the greatest spiritual/physical ritual, but more than likely (probable) it is one of the greatest". Then you said "it will help get you to..." as in future indicative, not conditional. The use of the third person indicative future tense "it will help" without a conditional clause denotes certainty.
Moreover, in this context "spiritual evolution" can have no other meaning than God's grace; since it is God's grace alone that can allow one to believe and act righteously. Unless of course you mean spiritually "evolve" into a devil? What does "spiritual evolution" mean other than coming closer to God? You have conveniently failed to provide an alternative definition for "spiritual evolution" which would show that it has nothing to do with God's grace.So to be Technical....You say users are Delusional yet....You yourself have proven that you Take what I write...and then RE-Make it according to your own view.
I NEVER said IT IS or WAS Grace from God.I used the Words Probabily, ONE OF, and Spiritual Evolution....(and Personal Opinion).
Your words are clear for everyone to see. If you do not know how to express yourself in the proper tense then my apologies. You used "spiritual evolution" as a twisted metaphor for getting closer to God (and since I assumed you at least have some knowledge of sacred scripture, this closeness can only come by grace); or are you going to tell me that marriage and having children "spiritually evolve" you away from God?? Give me a break, why are you lying?
And I think you are Guilty of Generalizing....Because I DONT AND NEVER SAID that Chasity was Rediculous.
You said "It would seem rather rediculous NOT to marry someone." What does that imply? Clearly, if you're not married then you are chaste! There is no other justified state for a believer to be in. Since our Lord does not give believers the option of having casual sex, it is ipso facto chastity. You're saying if someone "chooses" not to marry, it is "ridiculous".
I HAVE NOTHING against Chasity...Since Chasity is actually an Islamic Concept in the Quran. Rather I was speaking more about CELLEBACY...which is Remotly CLOSE to Chasity or contains Chasity however is NOT the EXACT same as CHASITY since CHASITY is a Broad Word with a Broad Meaning.
To summarise You basically said it is "ridiculous" for someone to choose not to marry, except if they're handicap; all other reasons are to you "invalid". God does not say this! He gives clear instructions on who is, and who is not lawful for marriage, He says if we cannot find a spouse to remain satisfied, that is chaste. He says it is better to be patient/chaste than to marry in some cases, even though the marriage would be lawful. He tells us that family/children/wealth are worldly goods which are a fitna/trial. You are unable to deal with these passages. 2433 tells us to be satisfied/content outside of the marriage state, which is chastity. There is thus no difference between chastity and celibacy in this context; one chooses to be satisfied in the state of chastity, and one uses one's time to focus on more spiritual matters and to ignore temporal matters, such as marriage.
I DO NOT think CELLEBACY is Rediculous...RATHER, I said that CELLEBACY FOR INVALID REASONS is Consittered Rediculous in MY BELIEF.
KEY WORD INVALID. I think that ONLY INVALID REASONS for Cellebacy is Rediculous.
A VALID REASON for Cellebacy in my opinion would be a Severe Handicap. (as I stated before)...What's the difference?? You think celibacy is "ridiculous" unless you're handicapped somehow, our Lord says different. Since I disagreed, I provided you with scriptural based reasons why one might prefer celibacy. Your are unable to deal with scripture! There is no positive commandment enjoining one to desire marriage, thus a desire for chastity (that is celibacy) is not inferior in anyway. We have positive examples of this in Yahya (339) and Mary (2191, 6612); she is described as ahsanat farjaha (lit.guarding her private parts). It doesn't say she "guarded her private parts, but was desperately looking for a man to marry so she could have a family". Rather we're told she was more concerned with the life of prayer (1916).
JUST trying to clarify for you to avoid any further Confusion.
There never was any confusion. You said something with no scriptual basis and I refuted it. All you have to do is be honest and say "well I'm sticking to my opinion, no matter what" or "I will re-examine my personal beliefs in light of the scripture".
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I disagree, this verse is key to understanding masturbation, as well as the cause of masturbation, as well as the cures for those men who cannot find partners
The cause is giving in to lust. Lust is something to be tempered not encouraged, on that see 2223. In my opinion, it is difficult to reconcile this act with the tenor of scripture.
What I'm after is why M Asad translates walyastafifi as "and ....live in continence"
Sorry I misunderstood, WalyastaAAfifi (and they abstain). Ayn Fa Fa just means to abstain from something that is unlawful/unseemly.
Back to the "unable to marry" such as nikan, what is the requirement from the quran other than quran 424 that of responsibility to provide for women's needs?
Not sure I understand your question.
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It took me some time to come back...Ive been busy D....
Hoppean What I was trying to say was that I personnaly have never met anyone who has NO DESIRE to get with a mate.
Even the most Lonliest people I know or have seen Deep down still wish they could have a Companion/Mate.
That is why I believe that ALL people then probabily have a Natureal Desire to get with a Mate.However, I acknowledge that this is a Logical Fallacy, since I am basing my Assuption on personal expereince. So if we want to be technical I am Guilty of supporting a Logical Fallacy of Generalization.
I think that Since we are told in Tradition and Religious Scripture that the Prophets had wives and family...it would seem Ideal that this is what we too should have.
Is it a matter of Haraam or Halal? No I dont think so. Jesus is the only known prophet I can think of that is not mentioned to getting married and having children however, I personnally have some conspiracy thories behind that. Alot of his message has been tainted and it would seem a little Odd that He wouldnt have married or have children. Perhaps Someone Erased his personal Life?Anyways, If One wishes to have Cellebacy then more power to them. I still think its rediculous because I have never met any individual who Truely feels that way.
I've met priests and Still think they wish to have mates.It just seems so Forein to me to accept Cellebacy especially after reading the Quran. The Quran seems to be to be the Epitomy of How the family/Society should be. It gives Specific Moral Outlines for both individuals and Community, and Cares about the Interests of the family. There is SO much Emphasis on rasing a Family Both at a Biological Level AND at an Orphan Level. It would then seem to me that all this Emphasis is for a Reason.
Im sure that Having a Mate and Rasing Children either Bilogical or Not is a very very Good thing to do both physically and Spiritually.
If One wishes to Live in a Small Cave a Million Miles away from ALL civilization and ONLY intereact with his OWN mind and Serve GOD and Life a Rightious Lifestyle and So be it. But I just think that One who lives in a Community with a Mate is much more enjoyable and benifital in certain aspects then the Cellabaced Preist/Monk who lives alone in the Mountains.Pershaps I may be wrong, but ...I think that life style is rather Selfish. One may Grow in PERSONAL aspects but will Never Grow in the other socital aspects. One may never know what its like to raise children, have a mate, etc...
Perhaps I just dont understand and thats why I sound like an A**hole. I feel that I would be VERY unhappy living as a Priest/Monk who is Cellabace.
Id much rather live as a Muslim who has children and has a wife and lives in Society.Which one is Better or has More Grace from GOD?
I cannot answer that. One GOD knows the True answer, It could be that Cellebased Priest is greater in Rightiousness than the Family man. or vise versa.
I just go with my Gut feeling. -
The cause is giving in to lust. Lust is something to be tempered not encouraged, on that see 2223. In my opinion, it is difficult to reconcile this act with the tenor of scripture.
Sorry I misunderstood, WalyastaAAfifi (and they abstain). Ayn Fa Fa just means to abstain from something that is unlawful/unseemly.
Not sure I understand your question.
Statement not question.
The question was why did asad use continence, as well as the old translators. Because continence means "to keep in" as well as abstinence. Does that arabic term refer to "keeping it in"?
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I think that to believe that one can attain more spiritual life by keeping off marriage and procreation is a might delusion.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/038.%20Suad/38.48a.gif
And they all are amongst the Best Chosen Persons.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/038.%20Suad/038.%20C%20Suad.htm
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/013.%20Ar%20Raad/13.38.gif
And indeed We had certainly sent Messengers before you, the Messenger and We had appointed for them as wives and progeny.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/013.%20Ar%20Raad/013.%20B%20Ar%20Raad.htm
Someone mentioned that "masterbation" is not talked about in Qur'aan.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.033.gif
You the Messenger pronounce/let it be known, "Indeed my Sustainer Lord has prohibited illicit sexual acts which is manifest/evident or which is done secretively/in privacy .http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/007.%20Al%20Airaaf%20C.htm
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Thanks Mazhar, Salaam
Here is something for Everyone in Reguards to the Preist Monk debate....
Celibacy-Islamic Prospective from Wikipeida
Islamic perspective
Islam does not promote celibacy; rather it promotes marriage. In fact, according to Islam, the purpose of marriage enables one to attain the highest form of righteousness within this sacred spiritual bond. It disagrees with the concept that marriage acts as a form of distraction in attaining nearness to God. The Qur'an (5727) states, "They devised monasticism as a means of seeking Allah?s pleasure. We did not prescribe it for them."
There have been people who have come to the prophet and explained how they love to be engaged in prayer and fasting for the sake of God. However, the Prophet Mohammed told them that despite this being good it is also a blessing to raise a family, to remain moderate and not to concentrate too much on one aspect as not only can this be unhealthy upon an individual as well as upon society, it may also take one away from God.The fact that there is no compulsion in Islam for one to live this way simply questions the practicality of employing this on a large scale. Through good deeds one can attain as high a righteousness as that of one who is celibate.
I think that in My Understanding and Intrepretation, Islam Encourages All to Get Married with a Companion(s) of the Opposite Sex in order to recieve a tranquil Blessing from Allah in whatever form that may come in, whether it be in Physical Such as Children or Homes to dwell in, or it be Emotional Nourishment, or it be some sort of metaphysical blessing from Allah.
Islam also encourges us to expand our minds,research, and follow True Submission to Allah wherever that may be. So, I cannot Compell others to Get Married if they feel ultimate Submission is in a Cellebate way of Life, nor can they Compell me to live that life by stating that is better in blessings and in rightiousness.
For me is what I believe and them what they believe.I am however, Rest Assured that a Cellebaced/Priest/Monk/Nun way of life is NOT for me since I have not seen ANY Scripture encoruage it, but rather Encourage the Opposite. My Reasoning also rests upon the verse The Qur'an (5727) states, "They devised monasticism as a means of seeking Allah?s pleasure. We did not prescribe it for them.", Therefore If Allah Did not Prescribe this style of Life, why would I choose to follow it?
Side Note-I like the Movie "Into the Wild", I think that there is a lot of underlaying truth in that movie in reguards to a Life of Solitude. Perhaps the Best Novelists, Poets, and thinkers were in constant pleasureful Solitude....However, They also were some of the most Nihilistic and Depressed people around.
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I think that in My Understanding and Intrepretation, Islam Encourages All to Get Married with a Companion(s) of the Opposite Sex in order to recieve a tranquil Blessing from Allah in whatever form that may come in
Hi RA786, you say "Get Married with a Companion(s)" - are you a believer in polygamy?
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fftopic why get out our attention falsely for masturbation and the quran???
Anywho.. I married for love, I married the most righteous mate for myself. BELIEVING MEN ARE FOR BELIEVING WOMEN. We did not marry for the money, we met and we were both going through some rough times. We did not marry for looks, he had some skin problems(acne etc...) and I had a few extra pounds and scars. We kept each other going by our faith, beliefs, values and we have came up from almost nothing together. I am one of the lucky ones to have a wonderful mate.
I do not do falsities. But it got your attention. Masturbation is in that verse told to be avoided. Specifically the terms used.
Stop ranting!
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Hi RA786, you say "Get Married with a Companion(s)" - are you a believer in polygamy?
QuranicallyYes
PersonallyNoI believe it is only an option for the muslims however given the condition that justice would be served...however, I choose not to because I fell i would not be best suited for bringing justice. 1 wife is hard enough
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I think seeing things that way is problematic, because it makes it then really hard to argue against other forms of sexual deviancy and you totally lose the argument that real Islam is about equal rights. I like to try and link Islamic morality with natural justice, which means to say we are naturally monogamous, and the feelings we have of sexual jealousy are natural and given by God to make us protect our partners from sinning.
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Well, no where that I've been able to find does the Quran satisfactorily define what it means by marriage, so I don't find it sensible to treat it as a mandate for polygamy in that sense. On the worldly side of things, do you really think that a society where rich people can marry multiple wives is can be one in which people treat each other, male and female, with respect as equals? I think it encourages the opposite, institutionalises both gender inequality and inequality between rich and poor.
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Does the Quran Allow Men to have more than 1 wife? YES
Does the Quran Allow Women to Divorce man? YESSome Can do it some cant. There are those who can be monagomistic and some who can have more than 1 wife.
Age also changes allot of things aswell.Does the quran allow financially unfit men to marry? No.