Alif; Laam and Meem with ancillary glyph/prolongation sign
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Salam Mazhar, all
i read all this discussion from the begining and i can tell you this1 - You didn't answer any of the logical questions Ayman and others have raised in this topic. But instead, you ended insulting people and calling names like "idiot" and "mentally under aged".
2 - You did not give a single proof (archeological or historical ) of mecca being known as a famous city before 8th century. the burden of proof is upon you.
3 - Quoting from your colorful website didn't help in any way the purpose of this discussion.
4 - Do you really believe that a muslim should circumvulate around a stone cube and kiss a black piece of meteorite ?? if so, you'll have a lot of trouble with your (sunni/shiaa) religion.Salam all
Read this and answer if you are truthful
Quote from ayman on August 20, 2009, 072609 PM
Peace Mazhar,You don't even understand a single word from the above. Any idiot can mindlessly copy and paste verses. If you undertand anything them please translate the above passages and I will show you where the location is. There is no point in giving the location if you don't even understand the basics.
Good so like you translated this passage, translate the above. In your translation you say "make this valley/locality a place of peace". Is Mecca a place of peace? How many people get trampled to death every year while they get pushed and shoved by people trying to kiss a Black Stone or stone three oblisks? Hundreds of people died in an armed rebellion in Mecca back in the seventies. In the eightees thousands of Iranian pilgrims were trapped and killed by security forces. Etc. Etc. Doesn't sound like a safe place.
Also, you say whoever enters it is safe. Did you or anyone you know ever entered it? Please don't lie.
Peace,
Ayman
I thought I was in duscussion with a literary person.
And when We appointed/declared/made "The House" the place of pilgrimage/return/assembly for people
and a place of safety/shelter/amnesty;
and for them to adopt the standing place of Iebra'heim as a standing/assembly place of sa'laat;
and We enjoined/imposed a pledge/duty upon Iebra'heim and Iesma'eile
that they should maintain/manage the cleanliness/sanctity of My House for those people who circle around it, and stay around it, and for the purpose of bowing and prostration of people.
Allah has appointed/declared the Sanctified House Al-Ka'abata enduringly a place of assembly/stay/congregation for the people.
If you find time you may find that it is not mindlessly copy and paste by an idiot, please see the translation by me here
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.01.A.htmI would be happy if you point out mistakes or anyhypothetical assertions therein. Now can you tell me which one is "My House" and in which city it is located?
Quote from ayman on August 20, 2009, 072609 PM
Peace Mazhar,You don't even understand a single word from the above. Any idiot can mindlessly copy and paste verses. If you undertand anything them please translate the above passages and I will show you where the location is. There is no point in giving the location if you don't even understand the basics.
Good so like you translated this passage, translate the above. In your translation you say "make this valley/locality a place of peace". Is Mecca a place of peace? How many people get trampled to death every year while they get pushed and shoved by people trying to kiss a Black Stone or stone three oblisks? Hundreds of people died in an armed rebellion in Mecca back in the seventies. In the eightees thousands of Iranian pilgrims were trapped and killed by security forces. Etc. Etc. Doesn't sound like a safe place.
Also, you say whoever enters it is safe. Did you or anyone you know ever entered it? Please don't lie.
Peace,
Ayman
I thought I was in duscussion with a literary person.
And when We appointed/declared/made "The House" the place of pilgrimage/return/assembly for people
and a place of safety/shelter/amnesty;
and for them to adopt the standing place of Iebra'heim as a standing/assembly place of sa'laat;
and We enjoined/imposed a pledge/duty upon Iebra'heim and Iesma'eile
that they should maintain/manage the cleanliness/sanctity of My House for those people who circle around it, and stay around it, and for the purpose of bowing and prostration of people.
Allah has appointed/declared the Sanctified House Al-Ka'abata enduringly a place of assembly/stay/congregation for the people.
If you find time you may find that it is not mindlessly copy and paste by an idiot, please see the translation by me here
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.01.A.htmI would be happy if you point out mistakes or anyhypothetical assertions therein.
Now can you tell me which one is "My House" and in which city it is located?Now can you tell me which one is "My House" and in which city it is located?
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Peace,
1 - It is YOU who understand/translate " " as meaning House !!
Try to be honest with yourself don't you see that "bayt/ " means something else than a physical house ??
we you read all the occurences of this word in the quran, not a single time do you find that it doesn't mean a physical house ?
2 - if you understand that the stone cube in Mecca is the house of God (read it again at loud to see how it's ringing in your ear) then, why should one circle it from outside ?? why aren't we invited INside ?? if you invited me at your house, should i have dinner outside ??
And the most important.... Why the hell should GOD have a house ???????? does He hate Hotels ?? rotflthink of it again and again, it's not very hard to wash yourself from the sunni/shiaa/pagan dirt ...
salam
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Peace,
1 - It is YOU who understand/translate " " as meaning House !!
Try to be honest with yourself don't you see that "bayt/ " means something else than a physical house ??
we you read all the occurences of this word in the quran, not a single time do you find that it doesn't mean a physical house ?
2 - if you understand that the stone cube in Mecca is the house of God (read it again at loud to see how it's ringing in your ear) then, why should one circle it from outside ?? why aren't we invited INside ?? if you invited me at your house, should i have dinner outside ??
And the most important.... Why the hell should GOD have a house ???????? does He hate Hotels ?? rotflthink of it again and again, it's not very hard to wash yourself from the sunni/shiaa/pagan dirt ...
salam
Evasive answer as pagans do.
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I cannot give an answer that you'll like because you are asking the wrong questions .
You want to know where is the "house of god" and in which city !!??
Okay here's my answer again
"house of god" is not a location, it's an institution, a principle,... it's monotheisme
salam
Evasive answer as pagans do.
you know far better than me what pagans do rotfl
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"house of god" it's monotheisme- but then it is restrictively located in a particular locality, which is that town?
quickduck and mazhar were arguing about what would be that black animal 2 miles away far from them..
mazhar said i bet it's a cow !
quickduck no , it's a crow !
Mazhar i'm sure it's a cow !
quickduck open your eyes dude, it's a crow !
Mazhar NO , it's a cow i said !!!!!
suddenly, this black thing took off , spread wings and flew in the sky...
quickduck you see ? i was right
Mazhar Altough it flies, it's a cow !!!!!!!!!!!!!Salam all ,
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quickduck and mazhar were arguing about what would be that black animal 2 miles away far from them..
mazhar said i bet it's a cow !
quickduck no , it's a crow !
Mazhar i'm sure it's a cow !
quickduck open your eyes dude, it's a crow !
Mazhar NO , it's a cow i said !!!!!
suddenly, this black thing took off , spread wings and flew in the sky...
quickduck you see ? i was right
Mazhar Altough it flies, it's a cow !!!!!!!!!!!!!Salam all ,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/Temp%2001%2022.26.gif
And when We earmarked for Iebra'heim the site/plot of the House ,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/22.26c.gif
that " You never associate with Me anything,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/022.%20A4.gif
and you maintain/manage the cleanliness/sanctity of My House for those people who circle around it/"circum gyration" and stay around it, and for the purpose of bowing and prostration of people.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/22.27.gif
And you pronounce amongst the people for Hajj ,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/22.27a.gif
they will come to you on foot and upon each and every ride, they coming from every deep and distant mountain highways;http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/022.C%20%20Al%20Hajj.htm
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/Temp%2001%2022.26.gif
And when We earmarked for Iebra'heim the site/plot of the House ,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/22.26c.gif
that " You never associate with Me anything,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/022.%20A4.gif
and you maintain/manage the cleanliness/sanctity of My House for those people who circle around it/"circum gyration" and stay around it, and for the purpose of bowing and prostration of people.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/22.27.gif
And you pronounce amongst the people for Hajj ,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/22.27a.gif
they will come to you on foot and upon each and every ride, they coming from every deep and distant mountain highways;http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/022.C%20%20Al%20Hajj.htm
From where did you get the translation that "hajj" means ''pilgrimage to kaaba'' ??
can you bring proofs that all the prophets after Abraham ever did this pilgrimage ??
Salam
P.S i'm pretty sure you will not answer except evasively ... nope
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they will come to you on foot and upon each and every ride, they coming from every deep and distant mountain highways
Where/which place would they come? Can you point out at which place was he where people were to come to him?
I say it was obviously the place where people are required to go for Hajj of the Bait, and that is Ka'aba. If you do not agree then you answer the question above.
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Where/which place would they come? Can you point out at which place was he where people were to come to him?
I say it was obviously the place where people are required to go for Hajj of the Bait, and that is Ka'aba. If you do not agree then you answer the question above.
as i expected, no real answer !
here are the questions again , pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase answer1- From where did you get the translation that "hajj" means ''pilgrimage to kaaba'' ??
(i mean is there any word for it in previous religions, since this "hajj" thing started from the era of Abraham ?)2 - can you bring proofs that all the prophets after Abraham ever did this pilgrimage ??
( i mean archelogical, historical, etc...proofs that Abraham and all the prophets after Him, as well as the "people" who he called on, really came to "your" Mecca and did pigrimage to ''your'' Kaaba Before islamic era ? )If you don't know the answer, be brave and tell everybody and yourself that you're following nothing but conjectures .
Moreover, these "conjectures" seems to be more related to paganism than to real "monotheism" . you cannot ignore that !
Salam
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/03.92-7.gif
Indeed/undoubtedly the FIRST House which was appointed/ built/placed on the Earth for the mankind is undoubtedly that one which is at Becca/Mecca; its peculiarity/prominent characteristic is its permanence/stability and is apparent/raised above the ground emblem of guidance for the mankind.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/03.92-8.gif
In its peculiar distinct features is the place of Iebra'heim and whoever entered therein he gets secure/amnesty.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/03.92-9.gif
And it is obligation from Allah for the one who has the capacity and wherewithal for travel he should decide to visit/perform Huj of The House.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/03.92-11.gif
And whoever refused the discharge of this obligation,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/03.92-10.gif
then indeed Allah is the Absolutely Independent, free from any need from the known and existing worlds/all that exists.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/03.92--.htm
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@quickduck 1- From where did you get the translation that "hajj" means ''pilgrimage to kaaba'' ??
(i mean is there any word for it in previous religions, since this "hajj" thing started from the era of Abraham ?)I have to say that's a very interesting question. What do you think the word "hajj" denotes?
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I have to say that's a very interesting question. What do you think the word "hajj" denotes?
i'm still working on it
in classical arabic "hajj" would mean some kind of debate.
in hebrew there's a similar word "hagg" that means an annual feast.But what i am absolutly sure of is that it doesn't mean "circling half-naked around a gold decorated stone cube, kissing a black fragment of meteorit and kill each other while stoning some pillars representing ibliss !!! " end of the story !!!
Salam;
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@quickduck in classical arabic "hajj" would mean some kind of debate.
Is that all you found in classical arabic?
@ in hebrew there's a similar word "hagg" that means an annual feast.
Could you provide the concordance you have referred to for that "annual feast"?
@But what i am absolutly sure of is that it doesn't mean "circling half-naked around a gold decorated stone cube, kissing a black fragment of meteorit and kill each other while stoning some pillars representing ibliss !!! "
Ha ha....that's true. Also, it's a line every non-Muslim has learned to parrot when have nothing to contribute.
@end of the story !!!
Figures.
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@quickduck in classical arabic "hajj" would mean some kind of debate.
Is that all you found in classical arabic?
@ in hebrew there's a similar word "hagg" that means an annual feast.
Could you provide the concordance you have referred to for that "annual feast"?
@But what i am absolutly sure of is that it doesn't mean "circling half-naked around a gold decorated stone cube, kissing a black fragment of meteorit and kill each other while stoning some pillars representing ibliss !!! "
Ha ha....that's true. Also, it's a line every non-Muslim has learned to parrot when have nothing to contribute.
@end of the story !!!
Figures.
No, it's not "all" i found in classical arabic, ...
i don't have time to write long poster, so i just wanted to share a sidenote...
Why don't you contribute to let us know what "hajj" means to you ?
Salam
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@But what i am absolutly sure of is that it doesn't mean "circling half-naked around a gold decorated stone cube, kissing a black fragment of meteorit and kill each other while stoning some pillars representing ibliss !!! "
Ha ha....that's true. Also, it's a line every non-Muslim has learned to parrot when have nothing to contribute.
Actually what is happening in Mecca in terms of walking half naked around some stone and kissing a stone is exactly what non-muslims do. Notice that you guys even wear the same uniform
http//img689.imageshack.us/img689/2799/hindupilgrims01.jpg
http//img209.imageshack.us/img209/1758/56766902.jpg
You have your stones and they have theirs. You can walk half-naked and venerate and kiss stones if you want but don't claim that it has anything to do with "islam".
Peace,
Ayman
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If that is not all you found then why did you make a selective submission? Any reason? Looking at some of your posts, brevity is certainly not to be one of them.
I have posted a writeup 'Hajj in the Bible,' which covers pilgrimage in the Bible and also the word 'chagag'. It's in the general section.
And what about your understanding of Hebraic 'hagg' as 'annual feast'? Did you find a reference to that?
Ha ha....hang on to your petticoat and put behind your ostensible bravado. My idea of 'hajj' I have already put up. And I have also thrown light on why many Jews and Christians mistranslate it as 'feast/festival/sacrifice'. And I have quoted your own book (Exodus, to be precise) to show the correct usage.
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If that is not all you found then why did you make a selective submission? Any reason? Looking at some of your posts, brevity is certainly not to be one of them.
I have posted a writeup 'Hajj in the Bible,' which covers pilgrimage in the Bible and also the word 'chagag'. It's in the general section.
And what about your understanding of Hebraic 'hagg' as 'annual feast'? Did you find a reference to that?
Ha ha....hang on to your petticoat and put behind your ostensible bravado. My idea of 'hajj' I have already put up. And I have also thrown light on why many Jews and Christians mistranslate it as 'feast/festival/sacrifice'. And I have quoted your own book (Exodus, to be precise) to show the correct usage.
I had not read that ealier. This took me there. Very good work done. Butwhat you can do in the presence of this fact
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/021.%20Al%20Anmbia/21.02.gif
They do not listen attentively whatever comes to them anew from the Zikr/Grand Qur'aan from their Sustainer Lord except that they listened it in a playful mood,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/021.%20Al%20Anmbia/21.03.gif
while their hearts are distracted in other thoughts.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/021.%20Al%20Anmbia/021.%20Al%20Anmbia.htm