From Malaysia: Still searching but here?s my story?
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welcome welcome
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Thank god i FINALLY found a fellow malaysian who has the same views as I do! Reciting arabic surahs that you didnt know the meaning of, the right leg first in the door , dogs arent alowed in the house because angels will go away (and all sorts of stuff espacially stoning) never made any sense growing up!! and whenever i tell my friends about how theyre in the hadiths and not actually from god and get in debates with them, they all say i cant use my own mind to think i need the help of a religious scholar!! (I also get in debates with my parents like you) and i feel the same exact way as you do in how i just want to know the truth and im willing to be corrected, if it convinces me otherwise! We are the people who are sincere in finding truth, we should definitely keep connected so... can you give me your email somehow? maybe through priveate message? im so happy that a malaysian besides me has the same views! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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By the way have you ever heard of this one hadith where muhammad threatened to burn down the homes of people who did not pray 5 times a day in jamaah at the mosque?(meaning as a group). Well I used to pray all my prayers at the mosque when i read that hadith! lol i mean the very notion of muhammad threatening to burn down peoples houses..how can a prophet do such a thing? it didnt make sense even back then. but i just accepted it. why? because islam's concept of god makes super sense.so everything else (supposedly islamic) had to be right no matter what. if only i knew that all thses wierd stuff tht didnt make sense were not in the quran.. btw u okay giving me ur email? or are u on facebook? handshake
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By the way have you ever heard of this one hadith where muhammad threatened to burn down the homes of people who did not pray 5 times a day in jamaah at the mosque?(meaning as a group). Well I used to pray all my prayers at the mosque when i read that hadith! lol i mean the very notion of muhammad threatening to burn down peoples houses..how can a prophet do such a thing? it didnt make sense even back then. but i just accepted it. why? because islam's concept of god makes super sense.so everything else (supposedly islamic) had to be right no matter what. if only i knew that all thses wierd stuff tht didnt make sense were not in the quran.. btw u okay giving me ur email? or are u on facebook? handshake
Hello noshield30..my apologies for the late reply. I have been tied up with work and havent been on this forum for a bit.
I'm glad to meet a fellow malaysian here too. This country is heading from bad to worse no? And its all because of religion/their interpretation of religion. No, I havent heard that particular hadith, but I can imagine THAT being a hadith! And its not only the hadith, its everything else, all their so called ijma and ijtihad. Ulama's here have too much power, and paid well too. Why do they have to be paid? They dont add value to the economy at all, they are just a cost. Hence they have to justify their existence with all these funky fatwas' with have no basis. I mean cmon, how can practising yoga be 'haram'? And coming out for guidelines to pray in space? Sigh..
Anyway, enough b*tching, . My email address is at [email protected] . Do drop me a line sometime.
Take care, Salam bro.
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Thank god i FINALLY found a fellow malaysian who has the same views as I do! Reciting arabic surahs that you didnt know the meaning of, the right leg first in the door , dogs arent alowed in the house because angels will go away (and all sorts of stuff espacially stoning) never made any sense growing up!! and whenever i tell my friends about how theyre in the hadiths and not actually from god and get in debates with them, they all say i cant use my own mind to think i need the help of a religious scholar!! (I also get in debates with my parents like you) and i feel the same exact way as you do in how i just want to know the truth and im willing to be corrected, if it convinces me otherwise! We are the people who are sincere in finding truth, we should definitely keep connected so... can you give me your email somehow? maybe through priveate message? im so happy that a malaysian besides me has the same views! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yeah, the sunnis can't even answer simple questions because of their lack of knowledge, mainly due to relying on scholars all the time. laugh
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By the way have you ever heard of this one hadith where muhammad threatened to burn down the homes of people who did not pray 5 times a day in jamaah at the mosque?(meaning as a group). Well I used to pray all my prayers at the mosque when i read that hadith! lol i mean the very notion of muhammad threatening to burn down peoples houses..how can a prophet do such a thing? it didnt make sense even back then. but i just accepted it. why? because islam's concept of god makes super sense.so everything else (supposedly islamic) had to be right no matter what. if only i knew that all thses wierd stuff tht didnt make sense were not in the quran.. btw u okay giving me ur email? or are u on facebook? handshake
That's like a contradiction to the koran and probably a very weak hadith yaa?
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Salam Maxthecat80,
Apa khabar? .....President Obama also can speak "Apa khabar" at some visitors in White House, because he had been in Indonesia during his younger days.
Back to your life experience. I think most of us feel the same way.
In Malaysia, the mindset of traditional muslims are die hard fans, so called Imam Syafiee followers, much much better than other mazhab thinking.
Example
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After performing Haj, they will put Haji before their names. So some people feel (not all) they were guranteed to enter paradise, as if non-Haj are low rank people.
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Most muslims said reading Quran in Arabic is full of fragrance, but reading the tafseer or translation is only an option. How do we know the message of Quran if we don't know the message.
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In the TV programmes most of the Islamic programmes are mainly on how to recite Quran in correct way and how to sing beautifully, but not even one in what's the message of the Quran in terms of science, technology and other subjects.
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The chaos regarding "Allah" names is so great that is sensitive to muslims in Malaysia. The word Allah were used even before Muhammad's time.
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Beard is good in Islam because sunnah of Muhammad. If say Jews have more thicker beard?
There are many other set of thinking that really makes me wonder about the beliefs of the traditional muslims if not confused, make us so tired of their style. So contradict with our human aspects of life. nope
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Hello noshield30..my apologies for the late reply. I have been tied up with work and havent been on this forum for a bit.
I'm glad to meet a fellow malaysian here too. This country is heading from bad to worse no? And its all because of religion/their interpretation of religion. No, I havent heard that particular hadith, but I can imagine THAT being a hadith! And its not only the hadith, its everything else, all their so called ijma and ijtihad. Ulama's here have too much power, and paid well too. Why do they have to be paid? They dont add value to the economy at all, they are just a cost. Hence they have to justify their existence with all these funky fatwas' with have no basis. I mean cmon, how can practising yoga be 'haram'? And coming out for guidelines to pray in space? Sigh..
Anyway, enough b*tching, . My email address is at [email protected] . Do drop me a line sometime.
Take care, Salam bro.
Hey Max,
welcome, I too am a fellow Malaysian. Been in FM for some time, note of caution, exercise your views with care now that you're back in our tanah air, Malaysia. We are considered deviant elektro . People here, I'm sure you're aware have generally forfeited their right to think on religious matters to thier unelected officials who hold religious office in the country.
Rumi
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Hey Max,
welcome, I too am a fellow Malaysian. Been in FM for some time, note of caution, exercise your views with care now that you're back in our tanah air, Malaysia. We are considered deviant elektro . People here, I'm sure you're aware have generally forfeited their right to think on religious matters to thier unelected officials who hold religious office in the country.
Rumi
Peace
I really loved Malaysia when I went there for the first time. I was sort of conned (by the twin towers, the tube, the airport, Putrajaya) into believing it was a modern well-governed country. The more I find out (Anwar Ibrahim, nepotism, bumiputra, the Chinese, that lady who wanted to be a Christian, putting your religion on your passport, Christians using 'Allah', the more I feel bad about Malaysia.
I used to love Mahatir too. I have read two or three of his books!
Having said this, I have found the people are genuinely very nice and trusting.
Roshan
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Hi!
i'm from Malaysia also!
org johor
its so nice to find Malaysians here
i feel so alone when i first started to believe in Quran Alone(QA)
but, my new brother in law has the same believe, when we first found out that we share the same thought, we end up talking till the restaurant close, hehehe ;D
now i'm spreading it to my best friend, she is very open and slowly getting into QA also
me also, i'm still learning and have a long way to goMay Allah guide us to the right path
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Thank you IronSKy
feel great to be able to express your thought freely herelike Max, i'm mix also, my mum is a convert, chinese buddha to Chinese Muslim when she married my dad
as i'm still learning, and have a LOOOONG way to go, i still dont know how to tell my parents especially my dad as he spent his whole life following sunnis sect
Max, how you even brought up the subject regarding your QA believes?i've hinted a little bit to my dad, when he said that women on their mestruation cannot enter mosque and i question him why a few times, but all he said that its was the fatwa and we should not question it
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Salam all,
Message 1114,
Agreed, its amazing how most Muslims in Malaysia tend to get emotional about 4, which is due to the fact that most don?t read Quran translations.
Rumi,
Yes, Ive got funny stares before whenever I try to mildly insinuate that the hadith contradicts the Quran. I think its sad that we here have elevated the imams/muftis/pak hajis to God-like status. Only 2 days ago, I read in one of the major newspapers a scholar saying that 'Insults to the authoritative religious scholarship is tantamount to rejection of religious knowledge itself. It implies that the Revelation is untruthful, implicating the Prophet and ultimately Almighty God.' (http//thestar.com.my/columnists/story.asp?file=/2010/5/25/columnists/ikimviews/6328509&sec=IKIM%20Views)
And mind you, the title of that article is "Blasphemy can lead to apostasy". Errr, isnt equating one to God itself blasphemy???
The situation here reminds me of a saying by Karl Marx- religion is the opium of the masses. And that?s exactly what 'religion' has become here, a tool to control and influence the masses. Sad.
Roshan,
Maybe that's the problem, the people are too nice and too trusting. And they believe everything people of 'authority' say. The worse thing is, I do not see this changing anytime soon.
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Max, how you even brought up the subject regarding your QA believes?
i've hinted a little bit to my dad, when he said that women on their mestruation cannot enter mosque and i question him why a few times, but all he said that its was the fatwa and we should not question it
Salam Dalia,
Well, it wasn?t easy I must say. But I think I back then, I foolishly convinced myself to go ahead and discuss this with my parents because to me the logic behind this was crystal clear, so much so I thought that anyone who would take some time to think this through will come to the same rational conclusion I did. It?s only after that initial backlash and many other backlashes (perhaps I am lousy at explaining things) that I realized that it is not easy.
Accepting that Quran alone is to be the sole guide for a traditional Muslim would also mean rejecting everything he/she has been practicing everyday of his/her life and admitting that they were wrong (sesat). So, this is not only about logic/reason, it?s also about ego. And confronting that with your dad head on, is not a good idea.
My two cents- Bide your time. Do not rush into telling your dad what you believe. Instead ask leading questions so that he can ?arrive? at the conclusion you have. A simple example is ?Why is the shahadah not in the Quran?? ?How come there are so many madhabs?? ?Isn?t stoning cruel??etc. The goal is to get him to read the Quran himself. Once he realizes that a lot of what we practice as ?Muslims? are really not from the Quran, you?ve won maybe 25% of the battle.
Take as much time as you need before confronting him about it. Most people will try to counter with logic and when they fail (as most surely they will), they will react angrily, saying that we are not learned enough compared to the ulama?s etc. They may even get an uztaz to meet and talk to you. That is to be expected.
But there is no way we can convince someone if that person hasn?t read the Quran. So that should be your first goal. And even then, it?s not easy, in my experience. It?ll take time, and patience. Even today, my parents and my fianc?e are still very much traditional Muslims, but the difference is they accept me the way I am and they are beginning to open up and start questioning tradition. I see this as a step forward.
I wish you all the best?
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Salam bro Max,
Its good to hear of a Malaysian finding his way to this forum. Strangely i just stumble on your post today since it have been here more than half a year.
I could relate to your story about debating with your parents on this.My mom brought me to an Ustaz few years back supposedly to tunjukkan "jalan yang lurus"(show me the "straight path". Too bad the mosque where the Ustaz was located is near to a tahfiz school. Luckily i came prepared with a laptop to help me to search for Quran verses. Even the Ustaz cant answer most of the questions raised. I saw my mother wiping her tears when i was debating the Ustaz. Then the ustaz gets tired of me he round up his students from the tahfiz school to "interrogate" me. It was me alone with my laptop and about 6-8 students sitting in a circle asking standard questions like "how do i pray" and stuff like that. It was so bad till i need to call my dad to bail me out. Lesson learnt Dont be a "hero" in front of these people, they will mark you and call you names especially in their ground and when you are alone. giveup
We should get together sometime for a kenduri or something.. D
Salam
ashraf -
Salam Ashraf,
Hahaha...trust me, the last thing I want is to be a hero! I think Ive reached the stage where I am relatively at peace with my beliefs and what others believe. There was a point where I couldnt resist myself from jumping into a debate to prove how/why everyone else got it wrong brickwall. Nowadays, Im a lot more pragmatic.
I'm sure you have been following many of the current issues relating to 'Islam' in our country. Sigh, we are digressing bro? its sad to see our beloved country, what was once a harmonious mutliracial multireligious society degenerate into blind following racist bunch of ppl?(sorry had to let it out somewhere..)
I guess on hindsight, we always had it coming, but we ignored the subtle signs..
Well, have a good (belated) merdeka and a fruitful ramadhan...
(PS of cos, we should meet up!, just as long as you dont bring along any JAIS ppl, hehe.. j/k)
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Salam,
Wow, I've been left out for about a year!
Hmmm... I've met Dalia before.
Ashraff, nteresting story. Bailed by your dad just like my father but he was really in the lock up in Penang.
and...Max, welcome. nice to meet you.
I hope that I could meet all of you at one time someday, insya allah.
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Salam all
wow, more malaysians! yeay!
nice to meet you ashraf, come2 lets organize la some kind of get together@Haseena, we need to have another get together la, definately! Want to eat some more of you dad's cooking!
@Max, yes, you are right, its not easy and I'm gonna take my time, but my parents kind of know about my stand as i sometimes discuss it with my bro in law and they heard it, pernah kena marah sekali jugak, hehhee p
anyway... we have created a group in Facebook - Malaysian Quranic Society, Feel free to join! it will be great to get more input from different people