Intensive nouns of quality
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Your foolish logic is like saying that " " is derived from an Arabic root " " (meaning somthing like "stare" and is of the form " " and this because people spend hours borwsing (staring) at the internet!!
elektro
Ayman, this is one of your best quotes ever ! i really laughed my head off at it ! rotfl
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Your foolish logic is like saying that " " is derived from an Arabic root " " (meaning somthing like "stare" and is of the form " " and this because people spend hours borwsing (staring) at the internet!!
Ayman, this is one of your best quotes ever ! i really laughed my head off at it !
Internet is a word describing a system of communication. If a word is made by Arabs to describe the same system that word may be such which will convey the perception to people who might not even have heard or known about internet, and that cant be called a borrowed word. Internet might have been a meaningless word to our grandfathers, 60-70 years back.
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I posted this topic for constructive discussion on trying to find out a way on getting more details on weights but why has it lost direction. If some one doesn't agree that grammar has to be used as one of the tools to study the Qur'an better or rules and guidelines should be used, then they are free to hold their opinion, but they don't have to try fill their ideas on topics that are not focused on this type of discussion but rather on collecting data.
I am busy and don't like to discuss issues too much, rather am gathering data and doing research, but anyway I can spend a few minutes a week to post some of my comments regarding the issue
And the caim regarding Rahmaan coming from the weight Raa Haa Miim Nuun is very rare. Most sects and schlars consider the root Raa Haa Miim and if you claim some other language then what does it have to do with an Arabic Root Raa Haa Miim Nuun. Is Sabaean language also written with these letters, I don't think so. Raa Haa Miim is the root and is almost unanimously agreed. Can you give some Muslim sites claiming that the Name Rahmaan has nothing to do with Mercy?
Is Qur'an the main criteria for us or some 1000s of years old inscriptions, then who interpreted those inscriptions into English. Even if Rahmaan name is found in some old texts, so what's the big deal. A Name of Allah even if mentioned in some other text isn't something so shocking. So if Rahmaan is the name, how can someone claim that It is original in some language other than Arabic, while Arabic was chosen as the vehicle for the Preserved, Inimitable and Miraculous word of Allah. The best and most advanced language is Arabic, so why not a name which is formed in Arabic and whose interpretation is taught via Prophets (peace be upon them)
If you believe Qur'an is the ultimate benchmark, then why are you finding some old isolated cases e.g Rahmaan to to away with even similar weights like Furqaan, Burhaan, Qur'aan.
And on what basis are you claiming it is Raa Haa Miim Nuun as the root and not Raa Haa Miim. Do you believe the same for Furqaan, Burhaan, Qur'aan
I don't believe in authenticity of your claim, you may not agree regarding my claim, so lets discuss with something we both agree on, the Qur'an and after fully discussing all instances of
Rahmaan and related forms in the Qur'an with Ayat context can you or I jump to other evidences. Uness you don't believe the Qur'an is the Miraculous and Flawless Word of Allah, revealed in the Most eloquent language of the world ever... Arabic. Then it will be a completely different discussion an interfaith discussion, but as believers in Qur'an discussion should 1st make the Qur'an the Benchmark. The Ultimate Criteria. The Furqaan. Raa Haa Miim roots to also be discussed and Raa Haa Miim Nuun if any, I don't think so. And any other such 4 letter Roots in the Qur'an. Borrowed from another language, a Name of Allah? why. Why not original in the Most eloquent language in existence and this name used in past generations too if done from Arabic. For Allah Arabic was never something new.
11, 13, 2163, 1330, 17110, 1918, 1926, 1944, 1945, 1958, 1961, 1969, 1975, 1978, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 205, 2090, 20108, 20109, 2126,
2136, 2142, 21112, 2526, 2359, 2560, 2560, 2563, 265, 2730, 3611, 3615, 3623, 3652, 412, 4317, 4319, 4320, 4333, 4336, 4345, 4381, 5033, 551, 5922, 673,
6719, 6720, 6729, 7837, 7838
Have a look at all occurrences of Rahmaan in the Qur'an and think about it.
And what about the other Names and Qualities like Al-Quddoos, Ar-Raheem, Al-Qayyoom, Subhaan, etc. how do you translate them, using some weight method and grammar also, or copy from some where and then how do you justify your interpretation of these translations.
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I agree that it is not simply the roots but the usage around the time the revelation of the Quran that is important, and in one (mindless) thread I had used the examples of 'n-f-q' and 'k-f-r' to put things in perspective.
Another point to consider is that Arabic was a well developed language by the time of the Quran's revelation, with standardized usage. Any contention to the contrary would require scrutiny.
The usage of 'r-h-m' as mercy in Arabic and Sabaean is established, so that's not an issue. Look up this thread for Rahman, it might help
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/rhmnn.html
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I agree that it is not simply the roots but the usage around the time the revelation of the Quran that is important, and in one (mindless) thread I had used the examples of 'n-f-q' and 'k-f-r' to put things in perspective.
Another point to consider is that Arabic was a well developed language by the time of the Quran's revelation, with standardized usage. Any contention to the contrary would require scrutiny.
The usage of 'r-h-m' as mercy in Arabic and Sabaean is established, so that's not an issue. Look up this thread for Rahman, it might help
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/rhmnn.html
With regard to the claim that al-Rahmn was a South Arabian Moon-god, the missionaries have not provided any evidence. This is not surprising since the website from which they have lifted the material did not do so either! This is sufficient to cast doubt over their entire allegation that al-Rahmn was a South Arabian Moon-god. The missionaries have also claimed to have "shown" something else, i.e., al-Rahmn was a deity worshipped by pagans in South Arabia and that it remains an "uncontested fact". It is also alleged that this is an undisputed point of agreement. Furthermore, they have asserted that al-Rahmn of the South Arabian pagans was a pagan deity and not the same al-Rahmn worshiped by the Jews and Christians. Their claims can be summarised as follows
I further showed that one of the attributes and titles which the Quran ascribes to Allah, namely ar-Rahman or "the Merciful", was also the name of a pagan god worshiped in South Arabia....
Whether ar-Rahman was a name for a moon deity or not, this fact would still remain uncontested? ar-Rahman was a pagan god worshiped by the pagans in Southern Arabia. Even the authors admit this in their rebuttal which leads me to my second point....
What we were claiming is that the ar-Rahman of the South Arabian pagans was a pagan deity and not the same Rahman worshiped by the Jews and Christians....
They had a pagan god by that name, but they did not know about him; Allah knew such stupid stories will emerge. He has already made it evident
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.60.gif
And when it was said for them, "you people prostrate for Ar'Reh'maan"
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.60a.gif
They replied, "And what is Ar'Reh'maan; should we prostrate for that which you command us"
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.60b.gif
And it increased their aversion. -
I appreciate your reference, buddy.
Here is 2559
Who created the heavens and the earth, and what between them is, in six days, then sat Himself upon the Throne, AlRahmaan ask any informed of Him!
When I read that verse (creating the heavens and the earth and all between them) it gives me a picture of Might. But that's just my view and I don't claim to be right. So I am keeping my options open. I will probably look at verse 2561-63 more closely. I guess I need to think this over more.
Jeez, buddy, you are right. Your thread lost direction big time.
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Might is reflected by this
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/011.%20Hud%20alaihissalm/11.66.gif
In keeping with the promised word when the time of Our Command reached, We rescued/saved Saleh and those who had believed along with him with the mercy from Us , and saved them to watch the humiliation on that day.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/011.%20Hud%20alaihissalm/011.A%205.gif
Indeed, O you the Messenger, your Sustainer Lord is the Absolutely Powerful, Absolutely Dominant.Ar Rehmaan being Ar Raheem does not mean that He should not punish the criminals. Rewarding the righteous and punishing the criminals is the manifestation of Rehmat. In fact majority of the traits are but reflection and manifestation of mercy, which Ar Rehman imposed upon Himself of His Own choice, since might and power cannot be dicted for doing something, before deciding to create. He brought His infinite Power and Might under the Umbrella of Mercy whereby His Absolute Power is also beautiful otherwise might has an element of negativity, generally speaking.
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Researcher,
You pose an interesting question.
As I understand it, most of the intensive forms of adjectives haven't been assigned levels of intensity. I believe they are primarily used to express a stronger meaning of the root adjective.
In his Arabic Grammar William Wright places the feminine of any intensive adjective above the masculine. Example, 3allaamah (ة is more intense than 3allaam (م. However, he doesn't make a distinction between , , , etc.. Therefore, and - according to Wright - are to be understood as reflecting the same meaning.
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Yes Wright and others indicate intensity but what type of intensity. That was the question. In English Arabic Grammar Books, no suitable answer is provided. Does any one know about any book in any other language that deals with the issue.
1 solution remains. Like people are making alot of efforts towards concordance of the Qur'an and root based method and other ways basically using Qur'anic usage of different forms of Roots as a method to better understand meanings of roots. A similar method may be developed that lists different routes used in the Qur'an that come from a specific intensity weight to better understand the intensity category i.e. which different routes come from a specific intensity form in the Qur'an. Once that is done, rest can be easily done using already existing and in progress Root list and derivatives projects. So if a list is prepared that lists all the roots that come from a specific intensity form for various intensity form, Qur'an itself can be used to better understand the intensity type.