Taking off the Hijab
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What? the ultimatum? That some girls flirt with their hair? That video was an exaggeration but obviously you like that kind of fallacy. People can flirt with text they don?t even need anything physical so your judgement in my opinion is wrong. Maybe I should create a video, block out everything except my hair and see how much of a reaction you get from such ?stimulating zina?.
Hair is an apparent beauty, maybe you weren?t aware of that.
?Anything that is against the Quran is not acceptable.? - you seem to have grammar problems (as you've already said).
Maybe I do have grammar problems though that?s beside the point, stop having a cheap blow at me and tell me what part of that you didn?t understand.
As for believers harmed, are we males not harmed when we cannot even recall information when you women stupefy us with your pheromones?
That?s your own personal flaw, it?s not subjective to all males. same to females, when they can?t recall an event.
No no, I've already looked a donkey pictures... I don't need to see yours.
I know it?s not a need though it appeared as a want, there is a difference. If you had some dignity you wouldn?t have asked if that was the case even if it be out of mockery furthermore have some respect, or is that beyond your capabilities?
well it's obvious that I didn't accept your faulting.
You might need to work on the psychology of how your brain works.
Most reporters... just wear make up, and when it comes to men... most if not all women have that effect. Especially in my case when I leave the office do I start to remember things I could have said, and do I truly feel awake.
lots of people can recall situations with better responses that?s because they have time to respond and reflect, not instantly react. ?being on the spot? is not always an easy case. Stop blaming women's appearance for your own incompetencies.
Women think about men? Do they lose concentration thanks to the men around them?
they could.
BTW FAR what about bald women? Does non hijab make it ok and yes such women do exist.
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But when it comes to the desert, a headscarf free individual... is an individual with heatstroke.
Yup, in the desert you would need to have your head covered (men & women alike) - due to the hot, hot sun. That's why it has been common for so long in the desert areas for people to be covering their heads.
But somewhere where it's hot and very humid, a headscarf and long clothing would make you super sweaty & uncomfortable. -
What? the ultimatum? That some girls flirt with their hair? That video was an exaggeration but obviously you like that kind of fallacy. People can flirt with text they don?t even need anything physical so your judgement in my opinion is wrong. Maybe I should create a video, block out everything except my hair and see how much of a reaction you get from such ?stimulating zina?.
Hair is an apparent beauty, maybe you weren?t aware of that.
Maybe I do have grammar problems though that?s beside the point, stop having a cheap blow at me and tell me what part of that you didn?t understand.That?s your own personal flaw, it?s not subjective to all males. same to females, when they can?t recall an event.
I know it?s not a need though it appeared as a want, there is a difference. If you had some dignity you wouldn?t have asked if that was the case even if it be out of mockery furthermore have some respect, or is that beyond your capabilities?
You might need to work on the psychology of how your brain works.lots of people can recall situations with better responses that?s because they have time to respond and reflect, not instantly react. ?being on the spot? is not always an easy case. Stop blaming women's appearance for your own incompetencies.
they could.
BTW FAR what about bald women? Does non hijab make it ok and yes such women do exist.
I didn't say "zina". I referred to in that verse.
"As for believers harmed, are we males not harmed when we cannot even recall information when you women stupefy us with your pheromones?"
...
It is subject to all heterosexual males.
"If you had some dignity you wouldn?t have asked if that was the case even if it be out of mockery furthermore have some respect, or is that beyond your capabilities?"
Why ask, you've already assumed more than enough.
"You might need to work on the psychology of how your brain works." - Psychology is a failing subject, perhaps you meant neurology?
"lots of people can recall situations with better responses that?s because they have time to respond and reflect, not instantly react. ?being on the spot? is not always an easy case. Stop blaming women's appearance for your own incompetencies." - Are you being wicked upon me (Quarn 496) do I need to verify that one? My incompetences? You really hate men, don't you? But what of quran 971? Who cares if men are weak? Then I would say, who cares if women get treated without such rights if I were you.
You say women could lose memories from being around men? Let's at least see this no? But surely the quran makes it clear in 2431 that they should lower their gaze, as well as not showing any of their beauty. Why? Ever seen men turn in the direction of pretty women?
"BTW FAR what about bald women? Does non hijab make it ok and yes such women do exist." - quran 2431 and 3358-59 doesn't talk about hair, just beauty, and not being bothered.
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Verse 5811
"O you who believe, if you are told to make room in the assemblies, then you shall make room. God will then make room for you. And if you are told to leave, then leave. God will raise those among you who believe, and those who acquire knowledge to higher ranks. God is fully aware of everything you do"
This verse is telling you to judge me....
Verse 4738
"Here you are being invited to spend in the cause of God, but some among you turn stingy. And whoever is stingy is only being stingy on himself. And God is the Rich, while you are the poor. And if you turn away, He will substitute another people instead of you, then they will not be like you"
This verse is clear proof to you that I will be punished for not wearing a headscarf.......
My only response to you is you are laughable.
And as for that biased news article you popped up, What is the chance of me knowing any girl that fits that description any more than you would. So why ask me that question in the first place. Your asking of a random question implies an inference.
Nowhere did I mention that I would only stand up for injustices against women. So that is another inference you made.
And many women wear the headscarf as they believe it to be a religious obligation. I support their right. And many women wear the headscarf as a fashion statement (as hard as that may be for you to believe). I support their right to do so as well. I do not care what anyone does unless it infringes on the rights of others.
A woman whether in a sheet or in spaghetti straps is a multi-faceted individual made up of so much more than the clothes she chooses to wear. I will let God judge these women.
I seem to get the feeling that you think that your rights are being infringed upon because women don't cover up and somehow tempt you. Well instead of expecting half the population of this world to adapt to your needs, why don't you use yourself as a solution. I am sure you can wear some sort of screen over your eyes, that lets you see clearly enough to get by, but distorts the fine features of a woman.
Peace as always
Kukumber.
Laughable? Quran 8329-36
No the first verse is about me being a muslim, and the definition of what a muslim does. A muslim is generally obedient. The second verse I mentioned was about people not giving charity in the forms that it is money, support, information, a proper environment etc etc.
A headscarf is not what I'm talking about... so I'll ignore you using the term headscarf, and I'll assume you mean hijab, as in cover, screen... as in sheets, as in jilbabs, as in looking like a muslim as according to what people would assume is a muslim.
Well you may let the god judge those women... but people are naturally inclined to judge "their people".
"I seem to get the feeling that you think that your rights are being infringed upon because women don't cover up and somehow tempt you." - A hell yes, and when I make a suggestion... I get lambasted and told to shut up, and how dare I say such a thing.
"I am sure you can wear some sort of screen over your eyes, that lets you see clearly enough to get by, but distorts the fine features of a woman." - so I'm supposed to decline the use of that which the god gave me? I do, it's according to quran 2430. But how do I do that when quran 2235 states what it states? Of course eyes are not the only thing that needs to be stopped, because pheromones are there. And you would demand that, when many men would have no issue but rather would demand that you have no covering around your head... but of course, did women before they had votes realize they were being deprived of something? Because those men are. And rather than helping humanity, you just claim to say that you wish to help women and women in men's bodies. But you don't desire to help men or even men in women's bodies?
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Yup, in the desert you would need to have your head covered (men & women alike) - due to the hot, hot sun. That's why it has been common for so long in the desert areas for people to be covering their heads.
But somewhere where it's hot and very humid, a headscarf and long clothing would make you super sweaty & uncomfortable.In a humid place, it'd be too hot to perspire. But even I can assume that the fires of hell are more so than the humidity issue of wherever you may wish to perspire.
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It is formidable to see somebody fight so hard in order to uphold his right to the privilege of being an obssessed ... and to have everybody else behave as if his obssessions were facts. Once duly impressed by that weird sight, is it really worth it to carry on chatting the same script over and over?
Salaam
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Far
I knew what word you were referring to but obviously you didn't know what I was referring to. "Zina" in case you don't know means a thing of beauty not zina in the sense of fornicator/adulterersee
Zay-Ya-Nun = To adorn, deck. Adorn, grace, honor . Embellished, dressed, or trimmed it . Adorned , ornamented, decorated, decked, bedecked, garnished, embellished, beautified, or graced him/it. Of language it is said "It was embellished, dressed up, or trimmed". Of action it is said "It was embellished, dressed up"; i.e. commended to a person by another man. A grace, a beauty, a comely quality, a physical/intellectual adornment, an honour or a credit, and anything that is the pride or glory of a person or a thing. A thing that does not disgrace or render unseemly a wise man in any of his states or conditions, either in the present world or in that which is to come. It are of three kinds Mental Such as knowledge/science and good tenants. Bodily Strength, tallness of stature, beauty of aspect. Extrinsic Wealth, rank or station, dignity.
"As for believers harmed, are we males not harmed when we cannot even recall information when you women stupefy us with your pheromones?"
pheromones aren't limited to females.
Why ask, you've already assumed more than enough.
there is something called rhetorical questioning. This time i'm not asking, i'm telling you to have some respect.
"You might need to work on the psychology of how your brain works." - Psychology is a failing subject, perhaps you meant neurology?
ATM the only thing failing very far is you."lots of people can recall situations with better responses that?s because they have time to respond and reflect, not instantly react. ?being on the spot? is not always an easy case. Stop blaming women's appearance for your own incompetencies." - Are you being wicked upon me (Quarn 496) do I need to verify that one? My incompetences? You really hate men, don't you? But what of quran 971? Who cares if men are weak? Then I would say, who cares if women get treated without such rights if I were you.
No i wasn?t being inquisitive nor asking you nothing, i was merely making a statement. so no i wasn?t being wicked I was just telling you as it is, in my understanding from what you reveal out here on the forum. You think women are not weak? You think MEN are only weak? (Serious question). and no i don?t hate men, why should i hate them? BTW i didn?t say that I didn?t or did care, so why assert claims?
You say women could lose memories from being around men? Let's at least see this no? But surely the quran makes it clear in 2431 that they should lower their gaze, as well as not showing any of their beauty. Why? Ever seen men turn in the direction of pretty women?
Yes women could lose memory in the presence of men. Never seen a girl turn in the direction of a handsome guy? Beep her horn while driving or giggle or even stalk? To answer your question and my own i have seen in both sexes.
"BTW FAR what about bald women? Does non hijab make it ok and yes such women do exist." - quran 2431 and 3358-59 doesn't talk about hair, just beauty, and not being bothered.
You have the audacity to argue with me and other sisters about women and their beauty and their HAIR and tell us hair is nudity let me quote
Refer to your replies 35 and 37 and now you want to argue issues other than hair?Reread your posts
Quran 285, 37, 1590-1594
As for women wanting to become nude and go against quran 2430... and becoming cheap for quran 2433.... let them please see the scientific evidences provided by some Italian scientists that go against their beliefs but agree with the quran.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9x5wY6hbX8
Am I being to harsh?
Maybe I need to find a forum where real muslimahs are at, because I have a question to ask them... and I don't know if the females here are suitable for that.
Ah and you need to find ?real muslimahs? because women are uncovering their hair?! This argument is about hair and your assertion of it being a ?zina? (zina in terms of beauty!) this is what i am focusing on based on this
Quote from nsws1988 on January 24, 2010, 053718 AM
Uncovering your hair is not nudity. Good riddance!
Actually it is... where pheromones are released... that is. The hair is significant source of this... of course if you were bald...
I haven't found one yet, I'll just have to make sure that the muslimahs in my town speak up.Please quran 971
So let?s settle one point at a time, shall we? focusing on Hair.
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Peace FAR
I have not made any character judgment on you in any of my posts. But you have told me once that I only support women, and not men. And then that i don't desire to help men and women in men's bodies.
Am I saying that women can wear what they want, but men have to wear a "sheet" so they don't tempt a women. Have you said yet that men have to wear a sheet just like women do. So when will you start supporting women?
There is no reason for a man or a woman to wear a sheet. There is no reason for us to dictate and lecture others on how to dress. It is their choice. If you have an issue with it, you find the solution within yourself.
While people may be naturally inclined to judge, it does not make passing judgment acceptable. People are inclined to do a lot of unacceptable things. We were put on this Earth to be the best we can be, not to do things of inclination.
And I suggest that you read up on pheromones, and the little evidence there is of their effects in human beings. And secondly, a piece of clothing whatever that may be will not prevent any pheromones, therefore it seems you are now advocating for segregation.
Therefore, I am now saying I am done talking to you. I have made my position on this issue very clear, and I have nothing more to say.
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Peace all,
Head covering is mentioned in Bible only, not in Quran. Please quote any verse you think it describes it.
Peace
Peace,
Yet, no one quoted any verse that commands to cover the hair. These discussions can last 4ever if no one just speaks about FACTS.
WHERE IS IT MENTIONNED IN THE READING. Please quote any verse.
Peace
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FAR You can judge the females here all you like and you can use any study you wish but what you cannot bring is the most crucial thing. You can NOT find ANYWHERE in the book of Allah (swt) 'COVER YOUR THE HAIR ON YOUR HEAD'.
So PLEASE stop ranting.
If MEN go deaf when they see a woman then HOW ABOUT perhaps THEY follow the Quran when it says LOWER YOUR GAZE!
I couldn't be bothered to read all that judgemental tripe you posted.
This debate will be over and I will stand corrected the minute you show me where Allah commands women to cover the hair on their head. Until then, you can whip yourself into a frenzy.
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Peace everyone,
Sorry for joining this thread so late. There is no point in me repeating the good points that have already been made - it's been well established that God did not tell us to cover our heads, male or female. I just want to add that if I never get a fair chance to see a woman's outward beauty, how will I select a bride?
3352
3352 Not lawful for you are women beyond this (above law), nor can you exchange them for other wives, although their beauty may please you.For the sake of transparency, I admit that the above expression (aajabak husnuhunn) may refer to being pleased not only by a woman's look, but by her beautiful mind and beautiful piety.
I would just like to add that attributing falsehood to God is a serious offense. Coming up with our own definitions of piety is a form of attributing falsehood to God - who is the source and original definer of piety. If we say, "I feel closer to God with a head covering on," we may want to question why we feel that way. Did we get this way from inherited traditions, or is it a fact from the reading (quran) that head coverings are designed by God to make us feel closer to Him? In other words, we need to recognize the possibility that our works have been adorned in our eyes in any situation. If I feel closer to God by wearing the color green, I should examine my emotions and get to the root of this feeling. Is it from superstitions, or traditions? Is it some nonsense I learned from my parents?
So, if you feel some difficulty in removing your head covering - other than in a society where it is dangerous to do so - you may want to search your heart and find out why.
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Far
I knew what word you were referring to but obviously you didn't know what I was referring to. "Zina" in case you don't know means a thing of beauty not zina in the sense of fornicator/adulterersee
pheromones aren't limited to females.
there is something called rhetorical questioning. This time i'm not asking, i'm telling you to have some respect.
ATM the only thing failing very far is you.No i wasn?t being inquisitive nor asking you nothing, i was merely making a statement. so no i wasn?t being wicked I was just telling you as it is, in my understanding from what you reveal out here on the forum. You think women are not weak? You think MEN are only weak? (Serious question). and no i don?t hate men, why should i hate them? BTW i didn?t say that I didn?t or did care, so why assert claims?
Yes women could lose memory in the presence of men. Never seen a girl turn in the direction of a handsome guy? Beep her horn while driving or giggle or even stalk? To answer your question and my own i have seen in both sexes.
You have the audacity to argue with me and other sisters about women and their beauty and their HAIR and tell us hair is nudity let me quote
Refer to your replies 35 and 37 and now you want to argue issues other than hair?Reread your posts
Ah and you need to find ?real muslimahs? because women are uncovering their hair?! This argument is about hair and your assertion of it being a ?zina? (zina in terms of beauty!) this is what i am focusing on based on this
Actually it is... where pheromones are released... that is. The hair is significant source of this... of course if you were bald...
I haven't found one yet, I'll just have to make sure that the muslimahs in my town speak up.Please quran 971
So let?s settle one point at a time, shall we? focusing on Hair.
Pheromones are limited to women... with men, they're limited in amount as compared to women.
"there is something called rhetorical questioning. This time i'm not asking, i'm telling you to have some respect."
I'd love to have some respect from you."ATM the only thing failing very far is you."
Do I have to pay for this respect?"No i wasn?t being inquisitive nor asking you nothing, i was merely making a statement. so no i wasn?t being wicked I was just telling you as it is, in my understanding from what you reveal out here on the forum. You think women are not weak? You think MEN are only weak? (Serious question). and no i don?t hate men, why should i hate them? BTW i didn?t say that I didn?t or did care, so why assert claims?"
Well... quran 496 does refer to statements made, and you were wicked because you didn't provide sources and references, and that meant that I needed to do more leg work.
You want me to say women and men are equal or men are stronger than women? Was it not you or someone else here, who said I should control my desires. I don't see you loving your fellow man. You said that you cared for others... you didn't include men."Yes women could lose memory in the presence of men. Never seen a girl turn in the direction of a handsome guy? Beep her horn while driving or giggle or even stalk? To answer your question and my own i have seen in both sexes."
I only saw a woman close her eyes after I was told she was staring at me. I've never experienced such a thing unless I assumed that it was because I looked like a terrorist.
But unless you have proof of women losing memory in regards to information about relationships when men talk about such things, I'm not going to accept your statement."You have the audacity to argue with me and other sisters about women and their beauty and their HAIR and tell us hair is nudity let me quote
Refer to your replies 35 and 37 and now you want to argue issues other than hair?" - Hair is nudity. Must have been a type or grammar issue."Ah and you need to find ?real muslimahs? because women are uncovering their hair?! This argument is about hair and your assertion of it being a ?zina? (zina in terms of beauty!) this is what i am focusing on based on this" - but what I'm focusing about is the type of woman that I would prefer to be married to.
"So let?s settle one point at a time, shall we? focusing on Hair. " - you want to cut the hair and focus on that?
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Peace FAR
I have not made any character judgment on you in any of my posts. But you have told me once that I only support women, and not men. And then that i don't desire to help men and women in men's bodies.
Am I saying that women can wear what they want, but men have to wear a "sheet" so they don't tempt a women. Have you said yet that men have to wear a sheet just like women do. So when will you start supporting women?
There is no reason for a man or a woman to wear a sheet. There is no reason for us to dictate and lecture others on how to dress. It is their choice. If you have an issue with it, you find the solution within yourself.
While people may be naturally inclined to judge, it does not make passing judgment acceptable. People are inclined to do a lot of unacceptable things. We were put on this Earth to be the best we can be, not to do things of inclination.
And I suggest that you read up on pheromones, and the little evidence there is of their effects in human beings. And secondly, a piece of clothing whatever that may be will not prevent any pheromones, therefore it seems you are now advocating for segregation.
Therefore, I am now saying I am done talking to you. I have made my position on this issue very clear, and I have nothing more to say.
"Am I saying that women can wear what they want, but men have to wear a "sheet" so they don't tempt a women. Have you said yet that men have to wear a sheet just like women do. So when will you start supporting women? "
Eh? But I thought the women here were saying "down with hijab levels"... you want me to support what is actually being called for or this hypothetical thing you've just made up?
"There is no reason for us to dictate and lecture others on how to dress"
Quran 2430 orders you to do so... no wait, quran 2431 orders me to dictate to you on how to dress only after you've told me about quran 2430.
"therefore it seems you are now advocating for segregation" ... and you made the first move " I am now saying I am done talking to you". No I expect peace here on earth... not women making life miserable.
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FAR You can judge the females here all you like and you can use any study you wish but what you cannot bring is the most crucial thing. You can NOT find ANYWHERE in the book of Allah (swt) 'COVER YOUR THE HAIR ON YOUR HEAD'.
So PLEASE stop ranting.
If MEN go deaf when they see a woman then HOW ABOUT perhaps THEY follow the Quran when it says LOWER YOUR GAZE!
I couldn't be bothered to read all that judgemental tripe you posted.
This debate will be over and I will stand corrected the minute you show me where Allah commands women to cover the hair on their head. Until then, you can whip yourself into a frenzy.
Quran doesn't say "lower your gaze"... the quran says "tell the believing men to lower their gaze" or what not. Do you get the difference? It's related to quran 2235.
Okay let's look at the root of Kh - m- r... refers to intoxicants? And head covering? no? Okay intoxicants... where do intoxicants happen in our case as with alcohol... in the head. ...
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Quran doesn't say "lower your gaze"... the quran says "tell the believing men to lower their gaze" or what not. Do you get the difference? It's related to quran 2235.
Okay let's look at the root of Kh - m- r... refers to intoxicants? And head covering? no? Okay intoxicants... where do intoxicants happen in our case as with alcohol... in the head. ...
FAR... the Qur'an tells BOTH men and women to lower their gaze. You only quote 2430 and you left out 2431 that ordains the women to lower their gaze too. Here, so you don't miss it again
Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty that will make for greater purity for them and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty...
Yes, the Qur'an acknowledges that women can have desires too. So far, you have not provided any evidence in the Qur'an that tells women to cover every strand of their hair. The Qur'an tells the women to cover the breast and lengthen upon themselves their outer garment.
Notice in 2431, it is stated that
..that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what appear thereof..
Then why did not God say in that verse that the women 'should not display their beauty and ornaments except their FACE and HAND'.
That is because God allows some provisions for women, to dress modestly according to the environment and the era they live in. So yeah, flirting with hair may arouse men's sexual desires. But as a woman, I can do more with my eyes and my lips to attract men sexually. Do not blame the women for men's weakness.
Slightly off-topic, if I look at a mango tree and I see the mangoes look so ripe and delicious, and the owner does not wrap each individual mango. Can I blame the owner when I feel tempted to steal the mangoes (because he does not cover each mango), or even, can I blame the mangoes for looking sooooooo ripe and delicious?!
Don't blame me. I'm a human, I'm weak to temptation. It's the owner's fault for not closely guarding his property (by covering everything he as as not to tempt everyone).
Peace
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Pheromones are limited to women... with men, they're limited in amount as compared to women.
Why twist and turn, what i said was not wrong.
Well... quran 496 does refer to statements made, and you were wicked because you didn't provide sources and references, and that meant that I needed to do more leg work.
You want me to say women and men are equal or men are stronger than women? Was it not you or someone else here, who said I should control my desires. I don't see you loving your fellow man. You said that you cared for others... you didn't include men.That?s being very bias brother. You should control your desires as should I, what?s the problem there? I?m not here to do your homework besides your evidence is disputable.
I only saw a woman close her eyes after I was told she was staring at me. I've never experienced such a thing unless I assumed that it was because I looked like a terrorist.
But unless you have proof of women losing memory in regards to information about relationships when men talk about such things, I'm not going to accept your statement.Ok I?ve lost memory is that good enough? I?ve made a fool of myself in the presence of men is that good enough? Or am I an abnormal female who isn't supposed to experience any feelings/emotions to males? Because the way I am seeing things you seem to indicate women are asexual, totally strong minded and nothing could enter or fault them. as if to assert they have no weaknesses in the presence of men.
Sorry, though your experiences don?t complete reality. life doesnt just revolve around you. just because you have not SEEN women "lose memory", drool over you, flirt or do all sorts of wackiness.. even though you may think you?re ?pretty? doesn?t mean it doesn?t happen.
Hair is nudity. Must have been a type or grammar issue.
Is that so? So you agree showing hair is fine?
"Ah and you need to find ?real muslimahs? because women are uncovering their hair?! This argument is about hair and your assertion of it being a ?zina? (zina in terms of beauty!) this is what i am focusing on based on this" - but what I'm focusing about is the type of woman that I would prefer to be married to.
This isn?t a marriage potential thread of finding ?real muslimahs? we?re not fake muslimah?s. what makes us fake? (SERIOUS QUESTION) the fact that many don?t wear the headscarf? the fact that many want to take it off? The fact that women realise it?s a cultural reflection, and this goes against you?re desired wish of what you want in a women? Is that why we?re not real muslimahs because we don?t fit your preference of marriage?
"So let?s settle one point at a time, shall we? focusing on Hair. " - you want to cut the hair and focus on that?
Reread what I said ?so let?s settle one point at a time, shall we? Focusing on hair?. Is there some comprehension problem here? I?m not talking about cutting the hair I am talking about the display of hair in public.
Peace.
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FAR... the Qur'an tells BOTH men and women to lower their gaze. You only quote 2430 and you left out 2431 that ordains the women to lower their gaze too. Here, so you don't miss it again
Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty that will make for greater purity for them and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty...
Yes, the Qur'an acknowledges that women can have desires too. So far, you have not provided any evidence in the Qur'an that tells women to cover every strand of their hair. The Qur'an tells the women to cover the breast and lengthen upon themselves their outer garment.
Notice in 2431, it is stated that
..that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what appear thereof..
Then why did not God say in that verse that the women 'should not display their beauty and ornaments except their FACE and HAND'.
That is because God allows some provisions for women, to dress modestly according to the environment and the era they live in. So yeah, flirting with hair may arouse men's sexual desires. But as a woman, I can do more with my eyes and my lips to attract men sexually. Do not blame the women for men's weakness.
Slightly off-topic, if I look at a mango tree and I see the mangoes look so ripe and delicious, and the owner does not wrap each individual mango. Can I blame the owner when I feel tempted to steal the mangoes (because he does not cover each mango), or even, can I blame the mangoes for looking sooooooo ripe and delicious?!
Don't blame me. I'm a human, I'm weak to temptation. It's the owner's fault for not closely guarding his property (by covering everything he as as not to tempt everyone).
Peace
When the quran states quran 2430... that comes before quran 2431... we take one step at a time, especially when quran 2431 says "and tell the believingesses ....)
I never said hands and face are uncoverable... but for some women, their faces and hands are not anything appealing. But... when it comes to hair and body, and the head which perspires, and etc... these things are naturally beautiful for men amongst all women.
"to dress modestly according to the environment and the era they live in"
I do not accept that. We have to consider a most important effect of life. That is procreation. I'm not going to explain that as it would take to much time. If you can do more with your lips and eyes and hands, then you would have to cover them as they would be ornamental for you.
You want to blame the god for men's inherent qualities? Quran 314... There's an excellent reason for men to be like this. Women are man's first desire as along with many others... why because of quran 2860 ... probably better explained by this guy from 18 minutes http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqmKZ7ezKMM
The mangos are married or slaves of another. And it's forbidden for mangos to marry another if they are already married. It would be adultery. But since you talked about mangos... mangos are fruit and property. They are owned and are property of that person, you need the permission of that farmer. But for women, you don't need their fathers permissions... but it was the duty of the parents to teach their children the legacy of islam. Quran 3130-133 http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1W4wv4K8rM Or the farmers duty to cover and protect his crops from pests... and farmers do that with chemicals and what not.
No you will be blamed for taking here on earth, rather than waiting for more in the hereafter. This life was just a taster to prepare you for that. But you wanted it now. That's when you get blamed for when you die and then ask for more... you'll be told you've had your fill.
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FAR, after all your long posts and arguments, you still have NOT provided us with the most important and indisputable evidence to support your case Qur'anic verse(s). Show us that we are blind, show us the Qur'anic verse(s) that we have failed to see the Qur'anic verses that ordain the women to cover their head and hair. Please do so. If you can provide such verse(s), I will be the first one to put a headscarf on and I will be advising other female Believers to do so. Until you do so, you cannot say that headscarf for women is Islamic. You are welcome to have your views that women should put headscarf on, but you have absolutely NO right calling Muslimahs who don't wear the headscarf, "fake Muslimahs". Bear in mind 4911.
but for some women, their faces and hands are not anything appealing. But... when it comes to hair and body, and the head which perspires, and etc... these things are naturally beautiful for men amongst all women
Tell me honestly, which will you find more attractive, a woman with beautiful long hair with a mask on, or a beautiful woman with a headscarf on?
If you can do more with your lips and eyes and hands, then you would have to cover them as they would be ornamental for you.
Are you saying I have to put a burqa on? What I was trying to say, is that the most important thing is to act modestly, and not use our ornaments to purposely attract the opposite sex. I can still wear modest clothes, but not act modestly to attract me.
God knows what is concealed inside the hearts, and that is what's most important.
Peace.
