According to Ahmadiyya Sect NAMLAH = NAME of a TRIBE ?
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http//www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/ants.htm
There are some modern translators and commentators of the Qur'an who realize the problem and want to understand these stories either as allegories (e.g. Muhammad Asad, see the article The Qur'an and Myths for quotations) or they completely reinterpret them in order to remove all mythological elements (e.g. the Ahmadiyya scholar Maulana Muhammad Ali). Ahmadiyya Muslims do not believe in miracles, and try to delete everything miraculous from the Qur'an. In the following, as one example, just a couple of verses from Surah 27 together with excerpts from Ali's copious footnotes
16 And Solomon was David's heir, and he said O men, we have been taught the speech of birds, and we have been granted of all things. Surely this is manifest grace.
17 And his hosts of the jinn and the men and the birds were gathered to Solomon, and they were formed into groups.
18 Until when they came to the valley of Naml, a Namlite said O Naml, enter your houses, (lest) Solomon and his hosts crush you, while they know not. ...
20 And he reviewed the birds, then said How is it I see not Hudhud, or is it that he is one of the absentees?
21 I will certainly punish him with a severe punishment, or kill him, or he shall bring me a clear excuse.
1844 ... Solomon's understanding of the speech of birds may imply the use he made of birds in conveying messages from one place to another, these messages being metaphorically called the speech of birds. ... Note also that Solomon does not speak of himself alone; his people are included when he is made to say We have been taught. This shows that his people also knew that speech.1846 The hosts of Solomon are here divided into three classes, the jinn, the men, and the tair. As regards the jinn, it has been shown in 1647 that these were men belonging to certain mountain tribes whom Solomon had subjugated. Tair may mean either birds or horse, i.e., cavalry. The gathering together of all three classes and their division into groups shows that all three were human beings. ... tair (the word used here) is a plural, may also be applied to swift animals such as horses. ... Thus the context taken in the light of these explanations would justify the conclusion that tair here means horse, i.e., cavalry, because it could be moved quickly. ...
1847 Many of the fables regarding Solomon have been due to a misconception of the word naml. It should be noted that wadi-l-Naml cannot be properly translated as the valley of the ants, for Naml is a proper noun ... the valley of the Naml is situated between Jibrin and 'Asqalan. And Namlah is the name of a tribe, like Mazin, which literally signifies the eggs of the ants. Namil means a clever man ... the Namlah are plainly spoken of as a tribe in the Qamus, which says under the word barq, Abriqah is of the waters of Namlah.
1849 The opening words may mean either a review of birds or a review of horses; see 1848. By Hudhud is not to be understood the lapwing, but a person of that name. In every language many of the proper names given to men will be found to be identical with the names of animals. The Arab writers speak of a king of Himyat as Hudad (LA), which is almost identical with Hudhud mentioned in the Qur'an. The Bible speaks of a king of Syria, named Ben Hadad (I Kings 1518, etc.) ... This shows that there is nothing strange in such a name being given to men. The verses that follow show clearly that Solomon was speaking of one of his own officers the infliction of severe punishment on a small bird by such a mighty monarch, as Solomon, and the exposition of the great religious doctrine of Unity by the lawping, are quite inconceivable.
(Source Maulana Muhammad Ali, The Holy Qur'an Arabic Text, English Translation and Commentary, Ahmadiyyah Anjuman Ishaa'at Islam, Lahore, Inc. U.S.A, 1995, pp. 730-32; bold emphasis mine)
It's interesting
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Had he said this in normal life before a doctor that bird means horse, that doctor would have immediately referred him to a psychetric ward.
What would a doctor have done to someone who said a bird told him such and such or a man turned into an ape?
Lets be realistic! .
peace
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Had he said this in normal life before a doctor that bird means horse, that doctor would have immediately referred him to a psychetric ward.
What would a doctor have done to someone who said a bird told him such and such or a man turned into an ape?
Lets be realistic! .
peace
Realistic is only he who accepts the words of a book which one is reading and does not change the word bird into horse and then horse into a tribe of men. If one thinks that he is putting some "realism" as this man and like of G.A Pervez have been doing it only reflects that he is not accepting/believing in that statement of the Book.
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Realistic is only he who accepts the words of a book which one is reading and does not change the word bird into horse and then horse into a tribe of men. If one thinks that he is putting some "realism" as this man and like of G.A Pervez have been doing it only reflects that he is not accepting/believing in that statement of the Book.
But we only know or rather believe the words to be what they are because we have been led to believe that that is what they actualy mean - shouldn't we use our own God given ability to reason on matters which are not according to the reality we see in front of us or we experience in our daily lives? Talking birds, ants.......... why not just go out and see with the eyes and ears God has given to us. That is what will be quistioned on the day,No?
peace Mazhar.
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But we only know or rather believe the words to be what they are because we have been led to believe that that is what they actualy mean - shouldn't we use our own God given ability to reason on matters which are not according to the reality we see in front of us or we experience in our daily lives? Talking birds, ants.......... why not just go out and see with the eyes and ears God has given to us. That is what will be quistioned on the day,No?
peace Mazhar.
Words of the book are to be taken and considered exactly what they convey. What one thinks not to be reality, it may be because of his lack of information and knowledge. Just search on the net you may find ants are talking and people are understanding it and even they can mimick.
They seem to have mot noticed this in the same chapter
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/027.%20An%20Naml/27.83.gif
And the Day We gather from each and every generation/identity those groups who publicly contradicted Our Aa'ya'at , whereupon they will be distributed in restrictions,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/027.%20An%20Naml/27.84.gif
until when they reached He said, "Did you publicly contradict My Aa'ya'at for reason that you did not comprehend/encompass them with knowledge or for that which you people kept doing"http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/027.%20An%20Naml/027.%20F%20An%20Naml.htm
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Some want to write their own Quran. Pathetic !!
NOT EVERY SINGLE WORD IN THE QURAN HAVE BEEN MISTRANSLATED, ONLY SOME (KEY) WORDS ARE !
Stop this growin paranoia
Salam
Not so true !
Please read again 2718
As you can see, an ant is a ghayr al-3aqil, however the verb used here is for an 3aqil. There is obviously a grammatical mistake if you understand Naml = ANT but if you assume that NAML = TRIBE, then it will be fair to say that there is no grammatical mistake.
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Not so true !
Please read again 2718
As you can see, an ant is a ghayr al-3aqil, however the verb used here is for an 3aqil. There is obviously a grammatical mistake if you understand Naml = ANT but if you assume that NAML = TRIBE, then it will be fair to say that there is no grammatical mistake.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/027.%20An%20Naml/Temo%2001%2027.18b.gif
a She-Ant imperatively said, "O you the/Male and Female Ants listen! you get in to your dwellingsAnt is according to some knowledgable is ghayr al-3aqil and they think by NAML = TRIBE who is 3aqil. If so then we have to presume that the leader of this tribe was ghayr al-3aqil since he said further
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/027.%20An%20Naml/27.18g.gif
lest Sulie'maan and his troops crush you while they are not even aware". -
Ant is according to some knowledgable is ghayr al-3aqil and they think by NAML = TRIBE who is 3aqil. If so then we have to presume that the leader of this tribe was ghayr al-3aqil since he said further
First, the leader of this tribe is a female, like the Queen of Sheba (ْ.
Second, an ant can't recognize a human by his name ().
Obviously, an ant is a ghayr al-3aqil. -
First, the leader of this tribe is a female, like the Queen of Sheba (ْ.
Second, an ant can't recognize a human by his name (ُ.
Obviously, an ant is a ghayr al-3aqil.1 - The rule of Al-3aqil and Ghay Al-3aqil (which was invented further by arabic linguists, BTW) applies ONLY when "Humans" (3aqil) talk about ANIMALS (ghayr Al-3aqil) . Which does not apply in THIS case, because here this Female ant talks to her "fellow" ants. So, this rule doesn't apply to them as they all belong to the same race/gender.
2 - Please read this verse very carefully (6-3
Wamaa min dabbatin fee al-ardiwala ta-irin yateeru bijanahayhi illa omamun amthalukum ma farratna feealkitabi min shay-in thumma ila rabbihim yuhsharoona
There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but nations/communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.
As you can see, the tribe/nation/community of ants is somehow like us. so there's no need to apply our own invented grammatical rules upon them. i think they have their own )
3- Please read from 2715 to 2719
As you can see, Suleiman was given the UNIQUE Gift of talking to animals and Jinns. so it is not surprising that the female ant knew him by his name, as long as the animals should have their own way to communicate.
if i was a bird or an animal who could talk to Suleiman, the first thing i'll ask him is for an introduction '' - Hello, my name is hoopoe (hud-hud) . what is your name ?? - Oh , my name is Suleiman, nice to meet you ..! )"- Hey, Psss...Psss ... be aware ... there's a King leading a huge army coming down here.... and you know what ?? he can talk to us...he can understand what we say !!!!
- Are you kidding me ?? Who is this freaking king ?
- I heard his name was Suleiman ! Pass it on ! "
next , we come to verse 2718
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one of the ants said "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Suleiman and his soldiers crush you (under foot) without knowing it."Salam
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Salam Mazhar,
and what about ( ) ie animals walking on earth ?doesn't the ants fits in that category ?
Salam
is defined by Grand Qur'aan as all animal kingdom in the Earth and certainly Ant is one species of it. .
If you compile information given in Qur'aan about animals, you will end up with a Classification Chart of Animal Kindom and then compare it with present day knowledge about Animal Classification. It may surprise us. One example, Qur'aan says Allah sent for you people eight families of herbivore mammals, ground reality is that there are Nine families.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/039.%20Az%20Zumar/Temp%2001%2039.06n.gif
And from amongst herbivore mammals He has sent for you people Eight families/species
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/039.%20Az%20Zumar/039.%20A15.gif
He created/creates you the living human beings in the bellies/pelvis of your mothers, creation after created form, inside the three layered darkness .http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/039.%20Az%20Zumar/039.%20Az%20Zumar.htm
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Peace,
is defined by Grand Qur'aan as all animal kingdom in the Earth and certainly Ant is one species of it. .
sorry, i meant "living ON earth", see my post before -
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/039.%20Az%20Zumar/039.%20A15.gif
He created/creates you the living human beings in the bellies/pelvis of your mothers, creation after created form, inside the three layered darkness .http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/039.%20Az%20Zumar/039.%20Az%20Zumar.htm
It's very interesting, but...i don't see any relation to this Topic....
Salam
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That was additional information to cope with this querry
doesn't the ants fits in that category ?
A name is used for whole range of a thing and then each part is isolated. Ant falls in the category which fly with two wings, and he was given the knowledge of language of those which fly with two wings. Ants also do the most "enjoyable thing" while flying.
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Peace Mazhar,
That was additional information to cope with this querry
A name is used for whole range of a thing and then each part is isolated. Ant falls in the category which fly with two wings, and he was given the knowledge of language of those which fly with two wings. Ants also do the most "enjoyable thing" while flying.As far as i know, not all the ants fly, nor all the ants have wings.. Only the reproductives do.
Salam
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Peace,
Anyway, i still wonder if jawad_mugniya is now fixed that the Naml was Not a human tribe and that it means the Ant community.
Not yet, bro. But thanks for your reply.
Mantiq al Tayr = Human logos (See Lisan al 3arab for the meaning of the word 'tayr'
Second reason is
in the verse 16. It doesn't say that it's a revelation or an insipiration but it seems like a gradual teaching.
That's why we can't say that they were speaking the language of birds because nobody can learn the language of birds gradually.