Taking off the Hijab
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It intrigues me how you use verses to support your wishes when clearly it goes against your purpose
Quran 494, talks about not calling others ?non believers? who say peace to you and what have you done here exactly?
What?s the qualification of being a ?muslim?? AH NO! I see you have used a masculine term to describe females how could you!
?Fake muslimah? is quite an offense, that?s like me calling you a fake muslim for not respecting the rights of muslim women. So yes in my opinion you actually cross the line with 4911
?fake muslimah?s? is a nickname an insult especially to people who identify themselves as muslimah?s. who are you to judge who is a true muslim or not? Outward appearance of hijab or rather headscarf does not make one a muslim or a non muslim nor a fake or real one..
Your preference of attraction means nothing. Non hijab doesn?t mean blending into the secular background. BTW hijab attracts people and many women wear hijab to intentionally ?attract? those sorts of men. So it?s not necessarily about women caring more or less and to limit your assumption as such isn?t very wise.
And where did I call you a fake muslim? And when have you given me a salutation? I am to judge if as according to quran 971 we are to be close friends to one another. Outward appearance makes it easy for me, and many women today are both outwardly nude and inwardly rotten.
Hijab only attracts those who see modesty. They recognize that these women aren't skanks. And that they do not idly follow the status quo. They prefer good women, and it's by the help of the god that they recognize what is a good woman. While others wish to pull their hijabs off and spit at them and stare at them with hate and suspicion.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRnMhPD-nZw
"What?s the qualification of being a ?muslim?? AH NO! I see you have used a masculine term to describe females how could you!"
... The god is more merciful than you could be, that the god covers up the sins of men.
I said "find me real muslimahs", HNF said "us fake muslims". Not my words his.
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You did not say that to yourself. You told everyone who's reading this thread, that we are fake Muslimahs. Unless, you think that the whole world is all about you.
It is a demeaning way of calling Muslimahs. It is offensive title to attach to women who have professed faith in Islam. Clearly the Qur'an tells all Believers to speak to everyone in polite manners. Even Moses was ordained to deliver warnings and speak to Fir'aun who is a disbeliever with gentle words. Even if I was a disbeliever, you should speak to me with words of peace, unless I declare wars on you which I haven't. Tell me, do you think calling us "fake Muslimahs" is a positive conduct? Do you think "fake Muslimahs" is a gentle word?And yes, have you read the verse 494 that Sarah quoted?
Well it is totally fine if you find a hijabi more desirable to marry. But you can not say that non-hijabis are not interested in practicing Islamic teachings, hence fake Muslimahs. Do you know what is in our hearts? Do you know what we do everyday to make that assumption?
And your perceived reality is not necessarily THE TRUTH. You may feel uneasy being around women who don't wear the hijab, but that's just you. Other men may not feel the same. You cannot make your opinion and experience, the Criterion.
And yes, 2431 and 3359. Clearly tell me where it says the hair and the head, please?
Really? How can you make assumption that I'm not interested in being a Muslim? Do you know me personally to see if I'm humble or not, if I'm obedient or not, if I'm committed to helping others or not? Are you just basing that with the fact that I'm not a hijabi?
And not like Muslims. Interesting, what do you think is required to be 'qualified' as a Muslim? Both male and female.
Peace.
Your professed title denies the quran, unless you believe in the quran, you cannot be a muslim. You have also lied. I never said "you fake muslims".
Non-hijabs were forced out of hijab. And are to this day also being forced out of it. Are you just trying to help those who hate muslims?
"Do you know what is in our hearts?" - it's full of blood and the devil.
"You may feel uneasy being around women who don't wear the hijab, but that's just you." - me and those four other guys?
"Other men may not feel the same. You cannot make your opinion and experience, the Criterion. " - you don't know anything about men.
"Do you think "fake Muslimahs" is a gentle word?" - yes it can be.
"And yes, have you read the verse 494 that Sarah quoted?" - I read a translation.
"Tell me, do you think calling us "fake Muslimahs" is a positive conduct?" - the god knowing HNF had a reason for doing so.
"Do you know what we do everyday to make that assumption?" - you can tell me that one.
"Clearly tell me where it says the hair and the head, please?" - zeenatun, and khimar.
"Really?" yes
"How can you make assumption that I'm not interested in being a Muslim?" - you don't sound like a humble muslim who would take my words as a close friend. Quran 971, you sound like you're saying I'm not a muslim because of that.
"Do you know me personally to see if I'm humble or not, if I'm obedient or not, if I'm committed to helping others or not?" - you gave your words here on the forum, unless you were mentally sick at the time, then no I don't know you.
"Are you just basing that with the fact that I'm not a hijabi?" - no I'm bashing you because you did not consider me a friend or my terms as good advice. And that you used reactionary language.
"Interesting, what do you think is required to be 'qualified' as a Muslim?" - to not sound like the atheist, that is to not be skeptical. To hear and obey. To verify what you hear rather than to reject asap, and nag the other person for information. And rather than wishing me "the peace", if they only wish you "peace", they don't want you to go to heaven, just short term peace. Such as in war, one that they wish to reject.
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Peace All,
This thread is derailing. Let?s put it back to perspective.
Forget how people look and their actions, that?s not our place to judge. But as muslims we support and guide one another to truth, enjoining good and forbidding the evil. this isn't a statistic study of how many scarfed girls are better or worse than the rest.
There is no evidence in AQ that says a female must wear a piece of material over her head. Some women do out of choice (even some forcefully, unfortunately). They may ?think? it is modesty though modesty isn?t limited to clothing. This is simply their interpretation and nothing to do with AQ it has association with Muslim culture and Christians and Jews but it?s not in AlQuran.
FAR and brothers like him may have preference for girls in a hijab, that?s simply his opinion which means nothing in terms of judgement with our lord. What is important is that we follow the guide bestowed upon us to the best of our ability.
There are good girls with hijab or rather I should say head scarf and there are bad girls with the headscarf. That being said the same can be said about non head-scarfed girls. Good and bad doesn?t start or end by how you look or dress. Remember the best dress is piety (726)
We know from the knowledge of Alquran that the headscarf is not obligated. So for sisters who want to take it off, that is their choice. Yes it?s hard especially when you have grown an affinity to it and get community backlash. So the choice and consequences is in your hands and while we care about what others think the ultimate concern should be with god.
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@ FAR
I know of a hijabi girl who actually slept with 13 different guys in the first semester of freshman year. Won't you admit that appearances can be deceiving? You don't know what's in someone's mind.
You must have missed my post which provided evidence to that. Would you like some more
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqmKZ7ezKMM
http//monitor.newsvine.com/_news/2006/11/28/460788-turkeys-kurds-satellite-tv-and-incestOf course yours may have been utterance of bad language. Quran 4148
Peace All,
This thread is derailing. Let?s put it back to perspective.
Forget how people look and their actions, that?s not our place to judge. But as muslims we support and guide one another to truth, enjoining good and forbidding the evil. this isn't a statistic study of how many scarfed girls are better or worse than the rest.
There is no evidence in AQ that says a female must wear a piece of material over her head. Some women do out of choice (even some forcefully, unfortunately). They may ?think? it is modesty though modesty isn?t limited to clothing. This is simply their interpretation and nothing to do with AQ it has association with Muslim culture and Christians and Jews but it?s not in AlQuran.
FAR and brothers like him may have preference for girls in a hijab, that?s simply his opinion which means nothing in terms of judgement with our lord. What is important is that we follow the guide bestowed upon us to the best of our ability.
There are good girls with hijab or rather I should say head scarf and there are bad girls with the headscarf. That being said the same can be said about non head-scarfed girls. Good and bad doesn?t start or end by how you look or dress. Remember the best dress is piety (726)
We know from the knowledge of Alquran that the headscarf is not obligated. So for sisters who want to take it off, that is their choice. Yes it?s hard especially when you have grown an affinity to it and get community backlash. So the choice and consequences is in your hands and while we care about what others think the ultimate concern should be with god.
"Some women do out of choice (even some forcefully, unfortunately)" - - (most forcefully out of it, and most raised without it)
They're clear terms that you must.
And those who harm mildly/harm the believers (M) and the believers (F) without what they earned/acquired (unjustly) , so they had endured/burdened falsehood/slander , and a clear/evident sin/crime. look up quran 3358
And those who harm the believing men and the believing women, with no just reason, they have brought upon themselves a slander and a gross sin.
Do you have a just reason to make me like this http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9x5wY6hbX8
Demanding that those who may even be disabled, that they should be treated like everyone else, is unacceptable.The next verse talks about telling the wives and daughters, & the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed.
You would not be recognized as a believer. The statistical rate of such women being harmed would increase.
Khimar, head covering. quran 2431... you wear it and lengthen it over your chest. The quran is easy to understand. The perspective is as so. The god commands in simple arabic that even a child would be able to realize, and follow. The commandments are easy to follow.
Non-headed girls sure, not women.
I care about being able to think. I cannot think in front of non-hijabis.
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You must have missed my post which provided evidence to that. Would you like some more
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqmKZ7ezKMM
http//monitor.newsvine.com/_news/2006/11/28/460788-turkeys-kurds-satellite-tv-and-incestOf course yours may have been utterance of bad language. Quran 4148
"Some women do out of choice (even some forcefully, unfortunately)" - - (most forcefully out of it, and most raised without it)
They're clear terms that you must.
And those who harm mildly/harm the believers (M) and the believers (F) without what they earned/acquired (unjustly) , so they had endured/burdened falsehood/slander , and a clear/evident sin/crime. look up quran 3358
And those who harm the believing men and the believing women, with no just reason, they have brought upon themselves a slander and a gross sin.
Do you have a just reason to make me like this http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9x5wY6hbX8
Demanding that those who may even be disabled, that they should be treated like everyone else, is unacceptable.The next verse talks about telling the wives and daughters, & the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed.
You would not be recognized as a believer. The statistical rate of such women being harmed would increase.
Khimar, head covering. quran 2431... you wear it and lengthen it over your chest. The quran is easy to understand. The perspective is as so. The god commands in simple arabic that even a child would be able to realize, and follow. The commandments are easy to follow.
Non-headed girls sure, not women.
I care about being able to think. I cannot think in front of non-hijabis.
I'm not sure why 'youtube' keeps on being quoted as evidence? That's like me using Wikipedia for "evidence" of something. laugh
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Peace Far,
I have been patient with you, in regards to this matter I will address it this last time. I feel i have said adequate enough things for you to be wise enough to either further your study or understand your own position. A wise person once told me "there's no point teaching someone to learn if they're fixated in a position and choose not to look beyond it, they're not ready to learn they only want to teach you and force their opinion on". In ways, you remind me of this.
3358 and continuing even context before is in relation to situation of harm. Every situation is different and requires specific things. jilbab is not a material around the head. and in terms of clothing most women don't have a problem in lengthening their clothes.
The way you think/feel around women is subjective to you. men are not disabled for us to treat them differently, besides disabled people want to be valued as part of society not outcast as different. the weakness is on men or you, not me. People don't change for disabled people but they will help them and support them. so i don't see why you're thinking requires me or other women to placate your needs. But we can definitely help by not flirting, speaking proper etc.
In a true muslim society, muslims and non muslims live together in peace. if you truly believe that muslim women must cover, you havent fixed the problem. For this reason i think anyone who has problems should train themselves, just like a child who may have an allergy to a common food, e.g. s/he will need to train themselves if they smell it, to deter their senses elsewhere or whatever may be the case. in regards to you maybe you should intentionally put your focus elsewhere, you need to see what works for you. you can't force and make all women wear the headscarf
Remember the logic of the Quran is subject to everyone and not just subjective to individuals, it's for humanity not just the men. to think about your own situation only is taking a closed minded approach, we need to all look at it holistically.
I hope you realise you have the strength to control your senses/thoughts/desires and that one day GW you can actually think with any women near you.
Peace
P.S you may still disagree with me, what's the point in continuing and arguing? For respect of this thread, we should stop derailing. if you still feel the need to put "evidence" other than youtube or the like, maybe refer to previous threads about the subject as there are many and post your interpretation/opinion/evidence there.
Remember your opinion is based on interpretation, recognise why you have this interpretation and why others have another, that may help in your learning )
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@ FAR
my point was this
Peace All,
There are good girls with hijab or rather I should say head scarf and there are bad girls with the headscarf. That being said the same can be said about non head-scarfed girls. Good and bad doesn?t start or end by how you look or dress. Remember the best dress is piety (726)
Just leave the judging to the most just judge (God)
peace Peace everyone
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Peace Far,
I have been patient with you, in regards to this matter I will address it this last time. I feel i have said adequate enough things for you to be wise enough to either further your study or understand your own position. A wise person once told me "there's no point teaching someone to learn if they're fixated in a position and choose not to look beyond it, they're not ready to learn they only want to teach you and force their opinion on". In ways, you remind me of this.
3358 and continuing even context before is in relation to situation of harm. Every situation is different and requires specific things. jilbab is not a material around the head. and in terms of clothing most women don't have a problem in lengthening their clothes.
The way you think/feel around women is subjective to you. men are not disabled for us to treat them differently, besides disabled people want to be valued as part of society not outcast as different. the weakness is on men or you, not me. People don't change for disabled people but they will help them and support them. so i don't see why you're thinking requires me or other women to placate your needs. But we can definitely help by not flirting, speaking proper etc.
In a true muslim society, muslims and non muslims live together in peace. if you truly believe that muslim women must cover, you havent fixed the problem. For this reason i think anyone who has problems should train themselves, just like a child who may have an allergy to a common food, e.g. s/he will need to train themselves if they smell it, to deter their senses elsewhere or whatever may be the case. in regards to you maybe you should intentionally put your focus elsewhere, you need to see what works for you. you can't force and make all women wear the headscarf
Remember the logic of the Quran is subject to everyone and not just subjective to individuals, it's for humanity not just the men. to think about your own situation only is taking a closed minded approach, we need to all look at it holistically.
I hope you realize you have the strength to control your senses/thoughts/desires and that one day GW you can actually think with any women near you.
Peace
P.S you may still disagree with me, what's the point in continuing and arguing? For respect of this thread, we should stop derailing. if you still feel the need to put "evidence" other than youtube or the like, maybe refer to previous threads about the subject as there are many and post your interpretation/opinion/evidence there.
Remember your opinion is based on interpretation, recognise why you have this interpretation and why others have another, that may help in your learning
And to Peace Far also.
I expect you to be more patient than me, but then again I cannot expect everyone to be patient as me.
Yes I wise person also told me to be precise and concise, as well as not to give in.
3358 is in relation to the harm caused upon men when they have been prevented from being able to think, or being made biochemically changed when in front of certain women.
I said khimar is a material around the head. jilbab is more so.
The way I think is subject to all males, it is not subject to you since you are not a male. If it was not subject to males other than me, then that would imply that I was some sort of freak of nature. One would need to provide evidence against the research done by both the Italian scientists, and the BBC. This evidence is yet to be made apparent.
Men are not disabled, but when women in certain occasions make them disabled, such is not acceptable especially when they do not recognize that fact. The weakness of a disabled individual in a wheelchair when trying to climb up above a step, is placed against the proprietor of that property. People do change to adapt to the needs of those who are disabled.
Why is it that men have to placate to the financial needs of women, yet they have no obligation to provide for the needs of men? When it comes to equal rights, there seems to be something missing here in the books of women who believe such to be true. That is not forgetting that men are different from women, as would be disabled people from able people. But they all deserve equal rights that will almost in all cases be different for each set of individuals needs.Not Flirting and speaking properly is most appreciated, but according to quran 2235 the natural order of people is that they would do so without sin as stated in the verse.
In a true muslim society, muslims and muslimahs and non-muslims and non-muslimahs do live in peace. But not always. There may be some times that they do not live in peace, today is one example before us where they do not seem to live in peace. We of course seem to be not in a time of either peace or a muslim society, even if that be in this forum. Training oneself is all good, but expecting that oneselves train themselves, and then when it comes to practicing quran 971, 2430-31, 2235, 3358-59 others may not be willing to train with oneself... this bodes for conflict in that individuals training progress.
Children would certainly not have the initial ability to recognize their allergies let alone their needs for growth. Unless they were trained and provided assistance from those who did know. Even today, people with certain allergies have no choice but to inform others that they are allergic. If others do not wish to adhere to such a notice from the allergic, then there may be problems for the allergic.
And I shall not be forced to be told on what I may put my attention upon.
The logic of the quran is applied to everyone then men would menstruate. To think about my position is to obey the quran when it tells me to "tell the believing women".
The god willing I shall be able to see woman come to realize and adhere to the quran so much so that they would be able to teach and realize the truth about it so that half of my faith could become complete.
I cannot force women to wear Manolo Blahnik can I now?
Recognizing why others have another interpretation would be difficult without me be able to find out the exact reasons. For I only study the verses and the terms and the meanings of the terms and the history of the usage. I would need to know more than just "I cannot see it", because sometimes when I am asked to look for something (such as cello tape in the draw, but could not see it even though it was right in front of my nose) I cannot see it.
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FAR, after all your long posts and arguments, you still have NOT provided us with the most important and indisputable evidence to support your case Qur'anic verse(s). Show us that we are blind, show us the Qur'anic verse(s) that we have failed to see the Qur'anic verses that ordain the women to cover their head and hair. Please do so. If you can provide such verse(s), I will be the first one to put a headscarf on and I will be advising other female Believers to do so. Until you do so, you cannot say that headscarf for women is Islamic. You are welcome to have your views that women should put headscarf on, but you have absolutely NO right calling Muslimahs who don't wear the headscarf, "fake Muslimahs". Bear in mind 4911.
Tell me honestly, which will you find more attractive, a woman with beautiful long hair with a mask on, or a beautiful woman with a headscarf on?
Are you saying I have to put a burqa on? What I was trying to say, is that the most important thing is to act modestly, and not use our ornaments to purposely attract the opposite sex. I can still wear modest clothes, but not act modestly to attract me.
God knows what is concealed inside the hearts, and that is what's most important.
Peace.Peace.
Respectfully.I agree.
I had a similar conversation with a sunni woman couple of years ago.....
Amazing.Peace.
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Quran 285, 37, 1590-1594
As for women wanting to become nude and go against quran 2430... and becoming cheap for quran 2433.... let them please see the scientific evidences provided by some Italian scientists that go against their beliefs but agree with the quran.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9x5wY6hbX8
Am I being to harsh?
Maybe I need to find a forum where real muslimahs are at, because I have a question to ask them... and I don't know if the females here are suitable for that.Peace,
Respectfully.females here have names and i can assure you that nowhere in the entire Quran are women told to cover their hair or head. Why? Becuse it's not the hair nor the head that attracts the opposite gender, it's how these are used. If a woman is fixing her hair and correcting her make up in front of a man, with the intention of attracting him, then she is clearly not lowering her gaze, is she?
What if a woman who shows only her face, puts some more mascara? After all, i won't be able to see her hair but if i'm looking at her eyes being beautified ..... do you understand where i'm going with this?
You're more then welcomed to stay on this forum as long as you wish and i got no harsh feelings towards you, but i do believe that you should re-read The Quran carefully. God bless you and may God guide you.
Peace.