Muslim Organizations Step to a better future.
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Salaam, count me in Brother.
Lol! Inshallah you'll be flooded with replies!
Peace.
I totally agree with what you're saying, the revolution should start with sites like this, surely? -
The inherent problem with a "Quran alone school" is you would never be able to reach a conclusion on what to actually teach the children... Since every Quranist follows their own opinion and interpretation.
The reason why this movement will never really "take off" is because there is no agreement between even a small online community on any of the issues.
The only time there was any unity at all in a Quran Alone Community was when they were all blind lemmings following ego driven assumptions and commands of a false messenger (Rashad Khalifa).
Now that MOST of the Quranists are able to see through the lies of RK, everyone follows their own whim on what verses mean, what the pillars are, etc.
With no unity there will never be a big movement.
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Thats what I mean...
How can we Possibly have a Religious Law Book that is Supposed to not only givef spiritual Guidence but also establish some sort of ORDER in the land.
How can this EVER be possible if EVERYONE is in disagreement and follows whatever they believe?
Its like when I used to Chat with Anarchists, Anarcho-Syndicalists, Anarcho-Communists..etc...
what I learned from them was that basically, NOTHING is Practicle, There is No Utopia, and even a Simple establishment of justice is impossible.How can we take this seriously?...If we cant even agree on the most simplest of things?
what will end up happening...is that I will get off the Computer and Like "My View of Islam" and you will do the same in your country.
Nothing Will change, Justice Will not be served... we will not establish anything...but we will come back here to continue dreaming of some better place.I wish it didnt have to be that way. nope
Lets think about something here...Why would Allah Give us a Book on Life,Spirituality, and Society...If it is inevitablly not going to work for mankind? astaghfirullah, I dont think that is possible. He wouldnt do that.
What is the Missing Key? the Secrete?
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Also about the Quranic School, Interpretation and View.
This must be incorrect right? Check this
The Quran says that there are those who Manipulate Vereses to Follow what They Think "Islam" to be.
Obviously we all have a Different View of Islam. However...The're Must be some sort of "True Intrepretation" right?I mean we can read a Verese lets say... 330... You believe it to be be one withing and me a different thing...but ONE of us has to be right.. Correct?
So if Most of us Agree that This Ayat says This........ Why cant we make a school that says the same thing? is that wrong.If the Quran says the Sky is Blue. and we all agree it says that...then who cares if someone else says its Brown. The Quran says Blue and we all agree its Blue.
(this is a bad example but...do you agree?)*What is the SOLUTION?
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Also about the Quranic School, Interpretation and View.
The're Must be some sort of "True Intrepretation" right?I mean we can read a Verese lets say... 330... You believe it to be be one withing and me a different thing...but ONE of us has to be right.. Correct?
So if Most of us Agree that This Ayat says This........ Why cant we make a school that says the same thing? is that wrong.*What is the SOLUTION?
First of all, its extremely hypocritical for you to be advocating "Quran Alone" and then saying that there should be some clergy which teaches children which is the "correct interpretation" based on human opinion. That is nothing less than a 21st century hadith which is based off of personal whims.
If you want to truly advocate "Quran Alone" you have to say Read it and come to your own conclusions.
Second of all, it's extremely naive to assume that Muhammad wouldn't have actually explained the message to his people. Countless times in the Quran it says to Muhammad, "When they ask you about xxx, Say". Obviously he was also supposed to be answering their questions and explaining things. Obviously he was also given the power to judge over people in their disputes, as well
465 No, by your Lord, they will not acknowledge until they make you judge in what they dispute with each other, then they will not find in their persons any animosity for what you have decided, and they will yield completely.
Don't you think that some of what the people disputed were questions about the interpretation of the Quran?
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Yes I understand where you and Others would think that it is Hypocritical.
However It is NOT in the same way as the Sunni's and Shiaas. Because the Sunni's and Shiaa's are going off of Hadith (books) that have absolutly Nothing to do with the Quran whatsoever, they have introduced Peganism, and Shirk.
what I said is Very Different from that in that I am Talking about PURELY QURAN ALONE...however a Consensus of what the Quran actually IS.
There is a difference between the two.Here's the thing that Troubles me... How can One Possibly Disagree and have different Views on the Quran. How do we STILL have Different views on the most basic things.
For instance, Take Salaat.
we have some who believe it is 5x a day, 3xtimes a day and even 0. or (1&2).
I understand Everyone may have their Own Intrepretation to a certain Degree...However..wouldnt it be a Very Simple Question to answer.
Isnt the Quran "Clear" and "Easy to Understand"? or Is it Vauge and So Broad and open that a person could easily argue 1,2,3,4,5,6, or even 10 times for salat.
If thats the case...then Quran Aloners could just make up their own Islam Completely.Im not talking about Making a New Hadith. I am not talking about Setting New Rules...
I am Talking about Having a CLEAR-CUT PERFECT (or close to) Understanding and Agreement On What the Quran says and what we are Supposed to do. Plain and Simple.
If we cannot answer what is in RED...then I feel we are wasting our time on this website and even with eachother. If Islam is So vauge that anyone can just make up and believe whatever they want (and say its Quran)....Then the Quran's Mission as ultimatley Failed?
We Keep Arguing who is Right. Then we say... Well you for you and us for us...But yet we Still are disunited, individual, and Broken up Completeley (what the Quran is actually against). We are basically "Quran-Aloners" who decide what is True and What is false according to Us.
So if I am Hypocritical in that Sense thena re We sa individuals Hypocritical by following our Own desierd Interpretations (our own mental hadiths?)
The Quran has ONE REAL interpretation Yes or NO? There is eaither a GOOD or a BAD. a GOOD reading and understanding or an Incorrect one.
So the Question....How do we find the REAL Meaning of the Quran? I dont think it will end like this. its impossible.
Like I said....The Qurans Mission cannot have failed. -
Yes I understand where you and Others would think that it is Hypocritical.
However It is NOT in the same way as the Sunni's and Shiaas. Because the Sunni's and Shiaa's are going off of Hadith (books) that have absolutly Nothing to do with the Quran whatsoever, they have introduced Peganism, and Shirk.
what I said is Very Different from that in that I am Talking about PURELY QURAN ALONE...however a Consensus of what the Quran actually IS.
There is a difference between the two.A consensus of what the Quran "actually is" is nothing more than a new-age community written HADITH explaining the Quran, do you not see???
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Im not talking about Making a New Hadith. I am not talking about Setting New Rules...
LOL. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that statement? Setting "new rules" is technically making a NEW HADITH.
If you truly advocate "Quran alone", you can't make rules or try to come up with a new hadith explaining the Quran for someone else. This is exactly what Rashad Khalifa tried to do, and failed.
I am Talking about Having a CLEAR-CUT PERFECT (or close to) Understanding and Agreement On What the Quran says and what we are Supposed to do. Plain and Simple.
If we cannot answer what is in RED...then I feel we are wasting our time on this website and even with eachother. If Islam is So vauge that anyone can just make up and believe whatever they want (and say its Quran)....Then the Quran's Mission as ultimatley Failed?
We Keep Arguing who is Right. Then we say... Well you for you and us for us...But yet we Still are disunited, individual, and Broken up Completeley (what the Quran is actually against). We are basically "Quran-Aloners" who decide what is True and What is false according to Us.
Yes, you are advocating writing a new hadith to explain the Quran. That is exactly what you are doing. I know it hurts. If you must rely on hadith, then why not rely on ones that supposedly came from the prophet, and at have some sort of "science of hadith" to back it up, not just your personal opinion?
So if I am Hypocritical in that Sense thena re We sa individuals Hypocritical by following our Own desierd Interpretations (our own mental hadiths?)
Yes, you are being hypocritical. You are advocating writing a community hadith which explains the Quran to "teach" to others, just like Sunnis did. Just like Shias did. You are endorsing the same thing. Why do you think they did it?
The Quran has ONE REAL interpretation Yes or NO? There is eaither a GOOD or a BAD. a GOOD reading and understanding or an Incorrect one.
So the Question....How do we find the REAL Meaning of the Quran? I dont think it will end like this. its impossible.
Like I said....The Qurans Mission cannot have failed.Of course there is only one true meaning, except when there are dual meanings P
Have you ever thought that God guides whom he wills, and leads astray whom he wills?
If you want unity, go back to hadith and scholars.
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So when Lyath wrote that excellent Book on the Quran,
and wrote what a Quranic Community would look like....Layth is Nothing More than a Hadithist and a betrayer of this great movment. He has failed misirably in following....and he is now guilty of Quran Treason...for he has wrote a Book on what the Quran is saying....so he is no better then a Sunni or Shia!
also Wakas too... because there has been countless times that Wakas has wrote posts that include Ayats of the Quran...and then explained how this verse says _____, and how its relevent to the Conversation...so He too is Guilty. police police
So, Then I suppose...everyone should keep to themselves and never mention the quran for fear of becoming a hadithist...for One Ayat means Something Completely Different to others.
So in all reality... "Do as you wilt" is the rule? we are going to Follow whatever WE feel the Quran says?
I feel then, that the Quran allows me to inject heroine, mary young girls, drink, and do many other things.
Who is going to tell me I am incorrect? Sureley Not you since you dont want to be called a Hadithist.You may think The Verese that says 100 lashes for the Adultress/er, and other Law ayats that talk about Capital Punishment are true and intrepret them in a way, However...I for one Do not believe that we are to punish those in society according to my interpretation.
So I guess criminals should be let wild to rule in the land since...their intrepretation allows them to do so and ours is different and we dont want to become hadithists.Hadithist; A Person who Follows other Books,writtings,or Sources Other than the Quran..and uphold them above the quran.
What I am saying; Following the Quran Alone, however haveing a common consensus on what the Quran even means.How are we EVER supposed to be One Ummah....if we cant even understand the Quran? How can we Follow a Book in which Nobody even agrees on and could therefore be written in a totally 100% forieghn language? It says Do not Break up into sects...and to remain United...however..How is this AT ALL possible?
Is this a Contradition settletruth? is Islam Doomed? will there Ever be unity (Ummah) and Justice in the Earth? or should we just go back to the old pegan days?
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Heres a Better example...
Hadiths;Contradict, Add, remove,contradict and make NEW RULES for Islam that are NOT in the Quran.
I am merely just suggesting that we Do NOT make NEW RULES at all....but Establish and Enforce the Ones we ALREADY HAVE.
Do you understand Now what I am trying to say?
We can Still be "Quran-Alone" by deffinition. its just we all have to come to some agreement on what the Quran Even IS.
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Salam,
Patience is needed...I know it is frustrating not to see immediate results, but there has been a ripple created by this movement nevertheless. The movement has gained public exposure in Egypt where followers of god alone were arrested...The movement has gained public exposure through the conferences set-up by Edip and other monotheists...The movement has gained strength as we have all been debating, studying, and analyzing so we have a better grasp of God's system and are able to present our position with more evidence.
A lot has happened and is happening...And, we will succeed in the end because God's system always makes a come-back from the depth of the darkness...Be patient, stay the course, and do what you can...The end is always for the righteous.
1149 This is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. Neither did you nor your people know this, so be patient; the ending will be for the righteous.
9122 And it is not advisable for the believers to mobilize in their entirety. For every battalion that marches out, let a group remain to study the system, and warn their people when they return to them, perhaps they will be aware.
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peace RA786, all,
Let me help you out, from my studies and experience of similar past threads/posts/ideas/etc here are some of the main problems I note
- a significant and sometimes huge lack of practicality
- a significant and sometimes huge lack of understanding in AQ
- a divisive rather than an inclusive approach
- a disingenuous agenda/effort
- 'attempting to run before you can walk' ideas
- lack of numbers
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Peace wakas,
Based on your experience, what do you think is the way forward/ what is your opinion on the issue raised by RA786?
If you care to know my opinion. The issue of the community of the righteous ones on earth is a must to enjoin what is right and forbid evil. And has to take a practical/physical form.If out of fear of consequence or whatever consideration we fail to live upto espectation in our responsibilitie, the merciful lord can replace us with others.
Where are the brothers and sisters that have submitted their lives and belongings to the path of the merciful lord DISREGARDING THEIR INORDINATE DESIRES AND SYSTEMS WHICH EMANATE FROM HUMAN UNGUIDED DESIRES?
The choice really is ours.
ZUBAIRUS.
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http//www.progressivemuslims.org/
Maybe this will help.
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peace zubairus,
Based on my list, whatever is proposed should be practical, simple, inclusive, clear/open, sensible, beneficial etc.
For me, I think the way forward is quite simple. We already know of a proven revolutionary tool that has immense internal power, is accepted by all Muslims and is available nearly everywhere and seems to be in the media spotlight The Quran. So, why not increase its accessibility, provide informational and study resources for it, tools to engage with it, increase interest in it etc all in an effort to increase the chances of accessing its message. Since we live in an information/technology/internet age, we are the first generation able to bring down the barriers to The Quran to their lowest level in the history of mankind. This is a unique moment in time for all of us.
That is why I have a preference for projects related to this area, as it fulfils the above criteria. I have personally worked with many people in projects, ranging in views/sects/etc but our views have been irrelevant because we are working together towards something we all agree upon and for collective betterment.
That is not to say other ideas/initiatives are a waste of time, of course not, as there are multiple routes to advancement.If you or others are like-minded, feel free to send me a pm.
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I like that Wakas...
My whole point is that...how do you install a System in Society...that "Apparently" No one understands?
That would be like making a Written Constatution...yet...nobody knows the language...or if they do they dont know the meaning...and if they do...they cant even agree upon the meaning.
What I am trying to say is THE QURAN. We need to First Understand what its saying and what the RULES are. If we cannot agree on what the RULES are saying...then how can we Enforce Regulations/Punishments for those who break the Rules....?/...Espescially if that end in itself is a Rule?
So what is the Quran Alone Society according to Settletruth?
A bunch of Quran followers who do whatever their Interpretations tell them to?
Well then...MY interpretations says that I am allowed to have Sex with married women and NOT get 100 lashes.
so...what is everyone going to say about that?....(dont say anything or Ill accuse you of being a Quranic-Totalitarian-hadithist.)See, what we need to do First is Understand and Agree on THE MEANING
Salaam/Peace
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You may think no-one understands or is not in agreement. I have not studied it in terms of application, but I dont see a major problem.
From my studies, AQ employs a top down approach, i.e. there are some solid basics that are rarely disputed, then as you filter down into more detail, then yes you get variance. You should not take this forum as a good example, as people can post many views, and there is a constant influx of new members who repeat the same discussions. You will not find many long term forum members in disagreement, and in terms of practical difference, there is even less disagreement between them.
