Possible explanation for why Uthman decided Sura 9 should have no Basmallah
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Yes , Every Sura in Qur'an comes at the beginning of it "In the name of God the merciful" <<"al bassmalla" except one of the suware "Surat at-tawba=sura 9" and the interpreters said that there is no need of bassmalla in this sura for two reasons
1- that Sura 9 is just a continuation of sura 8 which is surat al-anfal, so in this case no bassmalla.
2- that this sura 9 without bassmalla is because it's mentioned in this sura the Jihad and fighting the "infidels" Kufar, in addition to this the sura 9 stating the hypocrites and their punishment let alone the statement of their scandals. So we know that "al bassmalla" Comes out of mercy but in which it mentions
Jihad and the description of the attributes of the hypocrites, and this is not a situation of mercy, but is a situation of the Menace and intimidation.HEy. Those are pretty good reasons. bravo hmm
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All 113 Chapters of Grand Qur'aan have no such Ayah, except in http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/001.%20Al%20Fateha/sabamminal%20misani.gif-
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/001.%20Al%20Fateha/alfateha.jpg
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/001.%20Al%20Fateha/01.01.with%20no%20bmp.gif
Beginning is with Allah's personal name Ar'Reh'maan Who is The Fountain of Infinite Mercy.The very first Ayah of Chapter 9 is in fact reflection of Mercy.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/9.01.gif
It is a public proclamation, from Allah and His Messenger for communication to those from Worshipers of hand sculpted statues with whom you people, the believers had made mutual pact, to denounce the pact .http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/009.%20At%20Tauba.htm
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Yes , Every Sura in Qur'an comes at the beginning of it "In the name of God the merciful" <<"al bassmalla" except one of the suware "Surat at-tawba=sura 9" and the interpreters said that there is no need of bassmalla in this sura for two reasons
1- that Sura 9 is just a continuation of sura 8 which is surat al-anfal, so in this case no bassmalla.
2- that this sura 9 without bassmalla is because it's mentioned in this sura the Jihad and fighting the "infidels" Kufar, in addition to this the sura 9 stating the hypocrites and their punishment let alone the statement of their scandals. So we know that "al bassmalla" Comes out of mercy but in which it mentions
Jihad and the description of the attributes of the hypocrites, and this is not a situation of mercy, but is a situation of the Menace and intimidation.Or logically,
3- since "al bassmalla", mercy, is a quality of God, and this chapter lacks that quality, it's not really from God.
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Or logically,
3- since "al bassmalla", mercy, is a quality of God, and this chapter lacks that quality, it's not really from God.
the sura talks about the hopocrites punishment " ", so why you think that God should be merciful with them?, there is no relation between Mercy and judging, because in this case God is going to judge them and when we talk about judging, I think we don't need being merciful because the person according to the crime should be judged without Mercy . so here came the absence of bassmalla in this sura . Judge is a quality of God too.
You know that this sura has many names, one of his names is the Scandalous "", so why you think that such a scandal should be a mercy ? .
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It can't be a mercy because it is a scandal, and so it cannot be a receiving from God. God's revelations cannot be for the purpose of making human beings destroy each other and that appears to be the purpose of the sura.
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It can't be a mercy because it is a scandal, and so it cannot be a receiving from God. God's revelations cannot be for the purpose of making human beings destroy each other and that appears to be the purpose of the sura.
Sorry mate, but your knowledge of revelation is too poor.
I said the purpose is not about mercy neither about "human destroying each other" , the real purpose is Judging and showing the scandals of the hypocrites.
well, the sura is innocent from what you said !!!. As I said before the sura is talking about the Jihad and fighting the infidels in addition to these things scandalizing the hypocrites.
there are a lot of soware where God "Allah" told us about detroying or fighting the infidels and the attackers of Islam.
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But it's just not good enough. I mean 95 "Kill the pagans wherever you find them" would land any politician or general in the world before a war crimes tribunal. Especially since it follows from "When the forbidden/sacred months are over" - this is plotting pre-emptive sectarian violence. It's not good enough. It's not judgement, it's conspiracy.
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But it's just not good enough. I mean 95 "Kill the pagans wherever you find them" would land any politician or general in the world before a war crimes tribunal. Especially since it follows from "When the forbidden/sacred months are over" - this is plotting pre-emptive sectarian violence. It's not good enough. It's not judgement, it's conspiracy.
You are seriously taking 95 out of context, my friend.
Look at the verse directly preceding it
94 Except for those with whom you had a treaty from among those who have set up partners if they did not reduce anything from it nor did they plan to attack you; you shall fulfill their terms until they expire. God loves the righteous.
It's clear to see that verse 95 was only in reference to those who were did not uphold their peace treaties, and were planning to attack the believers. This is not "pre-emptive sectartian violence".
Then you have to look at the verse AFTER 95, which also says
96 If any of those who have set up partners seeks your protection, then you may protect him so that he may hear the words of God, then let him reach his sanctuary. This is because they are a people who do not know.
It's clear to see that with verse 94, it is only talking about the tribes which had failed to uphold their peace treaties, and had been continually attacking the believers.
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In every translation I've seen, the text is suggestive of the "forbidden months" expiring because time runs out, not because of the other side breaking the terms. That's why it says "when" and not "if". Hence 95 is talking about pre-emptive violence.
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We should perhaps question if there is a 'sura 9' to begin with. All suras are demarcated with the basmalah and so if there is no basmalah, there isn't any suras. Allah is the arranger of Quran so there is a purpose behind every inclusion and omission.
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In every translation I've seen, the text is suggestive of the "forbidden months" expiring because time runs out, not because of the other side breaking the terms. That's why it says "when" and not "if". Hence 95 is talking about pre-emptive violence.
Salam,
So your problem is voilence in the sura , well let me just remind you that sometimes we need a War . War can bring prosperty or adversity for some people. So whether you like it or not wars are necessary to show the truth or to hide it.
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Hence 95 is talking about pre-emptive violence.
lol@pre-emptive violence.
You are of course right if we ignore the preceding verse of 94, and also ignore the "repent" in 95 itself. Repent for what? Well, if it's about pre-emptive violence and no-one did anything wrong then is it about repenting for being polytheist? But is such an action mentioned elsewhere in The Quran? Nope. Will it go against other verses? Yes. But let's ignore this contradiction for the moment. What about the theme of equivalence throughout warfare in The Quran? Shall we ignore that as well? I know, why dont we ignore every other verse and conclude from one verse, this is most logical isn't it? lol
It's good knowing the arguments of those who attack Quran are so weak, sometimes one just has to laugh.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm
http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/ICR/ICR_16.htmEnjoy.
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Thereformer1 - My problem is not with necessary violence but with aggression and sectarianism. I have no problem with other Suras which urge believers to defend themselves - i.e. Sura 2 - "fight those who fight you but do not transgress - God does not favour the aggressors". That is correct - it is self defence and is directed at enemy combatants. Sura 9 is not defensive but aggressive - breaking the teaching of Sura 2. It is not directed at combatants but another religious group, the polytheists - thus is it pre-emptive incitement to sectarian violence.
Apart from this, Sura 9 is a disaster zone in other ways as well - it directs hatred at Jews and Christians, it is even racist against Arabs who are apparently the worst of all peoples in their "hypocrisy and disbelief". This isn't God talking. It's just a writer involved sectarian in civil wars.
Wakas - Actually, when verses contradict each other so directly it doesn't mean you interpret them differently. You can only interpret them differently when they are unspecific and leave room for doubt. When they contradict each other without leaving room for doubt, that means you have to question their veracity, or at the very least take the Shia approach of saying only God understands their true meaning and that they are too complicated for human minds. But then that isn't really helpful as if a book is to complex to be understood, that it is the fault of the writer, not the reader.
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Apart from this, Sura 9 is a disaster zone in other ways as well - it directs hatred at Jews and Christians, it is even racist against Arabs who are apparently the worst of all peoples in their "hypocrisy and disbelief". This isn't God talking. It's just a writer involved sectarian in civil wars.
Why do you say you're Muslim, when you reject a major part of the Quran? Maybe you should try the Baha'i faith or something.
Second of all, re-read 94 again. You will see that it makes clear that only the tribes which DONT uphold their peace treaties should be attacked. That sounds fair to me.
Then read 96, which says you should protect those who want protection.
Really I think if you are saying that entire Suras of the Quran are evil, you should really switch to another religion.
Peace.
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Thereformer1 - My problem is not with necessary violence but with aggression and sectarianism. I have no problem with other Suras which urge believers to defend themselves - i.e. Sura 2 - "fight those who fight you but do not transgress - God does not favour the aggressors". That is correct - it is self defence and is directed at enemy combatants. Sura 9 is not defensive but aggressive - breaking the teaching of Sura 2. It is not directed at combatants but another religious group, the polytheists - thus is it pre-emptive incitement to sectarian violence.
Salam Alaykom,
from my part I strongly recommand you to search of the cause of the shadings of this sura 9, because it's not talking about voilence at all or maybe the translation of the sura in english make it for you find some voilence statements in its verses. As I know the words in arabic don't talk about violence.
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Salam Alaykom,
from my part I strongly recommand you to search of the cause of the shadings of this sura 9, because it's not talking about voilence at all or maybe the translation of the sura in english make it for you find some voilence statements in its verses. As I know the words in arabic don't talk about violence.
Really?
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/9/5/default.htm
Yusuf Ali - But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)
Pickthal - Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush
Hilali/Khan - Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush.
H/K/Saheeh - And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush
Free Minds - So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point.
It's the use of this term "when" that is the definitive term for me. It's not saying it is contingent upon the other side doing something wrong. It is a decision already made. That's why I said earlier this would land any politician or general in the world before a war crimes tribunal. It's like when Israel was exposed as having planned the Lebanon war well before Hezbullah ambushed their soldiers in 2006. This, like that, is premeditated aggression.
Why do you say you're Muslim, when you reject a major part of the Quran? Maybe you should try the Baha'i faith or something.
Second of all, re-read 94 again. You will see that it makes clear that only the tribes which DONT uphold their peace treaties should be attacked. That sounds fair to me.
Then read 96, which says you should protect those who want protection.
Really I think if you are saying that entire Suras of the Quran are evil, you should really switch to another religion.
Peace.
It's the other way round. It's because I don't believe these bad things that I am a Muslim. If I believed in this cruelty, it would mean I believed God was unjusted, so I couldn't be a muslim. But because I know it is a false chapter, I know God is just, that is why I am a Muslim. So we should thank Allah that it does not begin with Bismi Allahi alrrahmani alrraheemi.
You see this is the nature of God's power. When the wrong minded people try to stick something false in the Quran, God prevents them from sealing their bad work.
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Really?
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/9/5/default.htm
Yet you're still making mistakes in understanding the voilence in this sura, here in the sura the God has ordered to kill the infidels when the forbidden month finished. They will kill them if they will refuse Islam again as a last chance for them to enter to Islam or the punishment is killing them . it sounds normal and fair because if they didn't kill them, those bunch of infidels will kill Muslims by way ot another they will also think the same thoughts about attacking Muslims, because God knows what they hid in their hearts , he ordered to kill them if they didn't change their behaviours over Muslims "hatred and doctrine" about Muslims community. Do you read the Qur'an ? if Yes go look for the lost nations who they were killed by angels . this is voilence but serving the Muslims and Islam which is the Din of God.
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They will kill them if they will refuse Islam again as a last chance for them to enter to Islam or the punishment is killing them . it sounds normal and fair because if they didn't kill them, those bunch of infidels will kill Muslims by way ot another they will also think the same thoughts about attacking Muslims, because God knows what they hid in their hearts
Yes, I do read the Quran, and I have heard this explanation before. But it's exactly what I described - pre-emptive sectarian violence, as well as genocide and forced conversion. It may have sounded reasonable to a 7th Century medieval audiance but it doesn't meet modern standards of human rights. I don't at all want to be judgemental of our ancestors, but it isn't a satisfactory teaching for the modern world, so I can't consider divinely guided.
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Yes, I do read the Quran, and I have heard this explanation before. But it's exactly what I described - pre-emptive sectarian violence, as well as genocide and forced conversion. It may have sounded reasonable to a 7th Century medieval audiance but it doesn't meet modern standards of human rights. I don't at all want to be judgemental of our ancestors, but it isn't a satisfactory teaching for the modern world, so I can't consider divinely guided.
the new modern standrads for human right !!! ??? usa and Europe who they're calling communities for human rights issues, they are the first who they broke the laws of human rights and they interfered in everyone's business let alone that their laws of human rights based first of all in the human rights from Islam laws.
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Wakas - Actually, when verses contradict each other so directly it doesn't mean you interpret them differently. You can only interpret them differently when they are unspecific and leave room for doubt. When they contradict each other without leaving room for doubt, that means you have to question their veracity, or at the very least take the Shia approach of saying only God understands their true meaning and that they are too complicated for human minds. But then that isn't really helpful as if a book is to complex to be understood, that it is the fault of the writer, not the reader.
Thanks for the vague and non-evidenced based rebuttal.
