did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?
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I don't think there's any point debating here. No matter how many verses you give to this reformer dude, they are always out of context and there's shading (whatever that means).
Look at all the verses I gave him and they're still not good enough
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600042.msg241561#msg241561
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Thereformer, so the Prophet warned us about the Quraniyoon yet in the Quran itself he was told say I only follow that which is revealed unto me
I know you're really into context and I think that's great so lets see the context of that, ayah 10/15
And when Our Clear Verses are recited unto them, those who hope not for their meeting with Us, say Bring us a Quran other than this, or change it."Say (O Muhammad SAW) "It is not for me to change it on my own accord; I only follow that which is revealed unto me. Verily, I fear if I were to disobey my Lord, the torment of the Great Day
So if you notice, some say when the clear verses (not hadith yeah, clear VERSES) 'bring us a quran other than this or CHANGE this'. The Prophet was told to reply 'its not for me to change it'. Why was he told to say this? Does hadith overturn many Quranic injunctions? Then he was commanded to say 'i follow only that which is revealed to me'. So what is 'revealed to him'? Go back to the beginning of the ayah and the answer is simple THE QURAN.
So that hadith you quoted is false and probably created in order to scare people into believing hadith. It worked.
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Salam
The most shocking things for them is that the prophet peace be upon him told us about this kind of people
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Al-`Irbad ibn Sariyah (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said ?Would any of you think, reclining on his couch, that Allah would only describe what is forbidden in the Qur?an? I tell you, by Allah, that I have warned and commanded and prohibited things that are as important as what is in the Qur?an, if not more so.? (Reported by Abu Dawud, Kitab al-Khiraj wal-imarah wal-fay'
The most shocking thing? What I find shocking about this hadith is how obviously it contradicts the Qur'an, as has been shown by others on here.
This hadith is always quoted in texts about the supposed "authority of sunnah", I've read it countless times. nope
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http//Al-`Irbad ibn Sariyah (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)
What is mentioned in the parenthesis seems a wish and desire of the person who is quoting their name/referring them. But the fact is this.
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And the first ones/forerunners who took the lead/precedence from the immigrants and the local accommodators/Helpers and those who followed their footsteps appropriately and in decent manner
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Allah is pleased/has approved/appreciated them and they are admiringly happy with Allah.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/009.%20At%20Tauba.%20E.htm
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And Salutation is upon the Messengers ;http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/037.%20As%20Safaat/037.%20G%20As%20Saffat.htm
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Exactly if the ayats are complete why use another source??The laws are complete in the quran and to say otherwise after reading the quran is not believing in Gods words.
Exactly, do you know what does complete in verses"Ayatte" means ? ah of course you don't, let's do some lessons about Arabic "Ayatte" means in Arabic "" in english "Morals" or "sermons" and also means " " in english signs , Marks, Data and signals. well I think we should get another source to solve or to interpret some Data and some signs and some Marks and some signals. How we will do that ? easy by searching in the hadiths .
In regards to "sheep syndrome" comment it was a tongue in cheek comment used to describe mindsets of those people that follow the crowd which are I believe the majority on this earth.
I understand what do you mean about "sheep syndrome" the origin of this word is arabic (we say " " in english Herd mentality . Anyways the sheep syndrome as you claimed is wrong because all the sheep follow one leader (the powerful one and the Oldest and the wise one) .so being take it as a joke about sheep , think again at least they are under a leader , in the other hand you're under your desires.
I suggest you wake up and study the quran using cross referencing instead of using another source to twist verses to support hadiths.
PEACEI use both of them (Qur'an and prophet's hadiths) I found them like twins, so as I said before the only person that should wake up is you. ah one more thing you need to study (I'm not suggesting) .
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all the sheep follow one leader (the powerful one and the Oldest and the wise one)
In displaying flocking, sheep have a strong lead-follow tendency, and a leader often as not is simply the first sheep to move. However, sheep do establish a pecking order through physical displays of dominance. Dominant animals are inclined to be more aggressive with other sheep, and usually feed first at troughs.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_sheep
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I don't think there's any point debating here. No matter how many verses you give to this reformer dude, they are always out of context and there's shading (whatever that means).
Look at all the verses I gave him and they're still not good enough
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600042.msg241561#msg241561You can't debate anyway. the verses should be first of all under their context ( why get off) you don't know the meanings of this thing, so better be a student than a fool master.
the verses that you gave me are under a specific time and for a specific people.
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You can't debate anyway. the verses should be first of all under their context ( why get off) you don't know the meanings of this thing, so better be a student than a fool master.
the verses that you gave me are under a specific time and for a specific people.
Can you please tell me how you determine 'context'? Is there some other source we need to look at perhaps?
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Why didn't God inform us that one day a man named Bukhari would compile another book for us to follow.
I think God should tell you that you will see using your eyes not your mouth, isn't? . nonsensical question. why would he ?
Why didn't God inform us about isnad to guide us to the correct hadith.
why didn't God inform us about free-mind to the correct way?
Before Bukhari were the muslims supposed to follow any of the thousands upon thousands hadith they heard.
before the Bukhari were Muslims killed everyone lied about the saying of the prophet.
Do I follow Sunni or Shai hadith? If one why not the other?
I'm not to force what side will you choose, but as I see Sunni is the best one , after all the sunni man respect the Sahaba and the prophet as well .
What if the Hadith has a strong isnad but contradicts the Quran, should I follow the Hadith (like in the Hanbali school)
there is no strong isnad in hadith contradicts the Qur'an, you should know that . I've read hadiths and I have Sahih Muslim and I didn't find anything contradicts the Qur'an . if it is the case as you said , we will reject the hadith but just what contradicts the Qur'an and I think there is no hadiths sahih contradicts the Quran.
I don't recommand you to choose any school, because I don't choose any school.On that note, will I be judged by God based on which school I follow when the schools have difference of opinion?
who knows, but what I'm sure about, who rejects the hadith (God said he has not a real faith or his faith is not strong).
Why didn't God inform us about the different schools of thought to follow? If Bukhari only kept a small percent of hadith obviously there were a lot of people making stuff and applying it to the prophet, how do we know the Hadith collectors didn't make mistakes?
You have to look for the story of Bukhari, and you'll know that he was guided by God.
What if they were wrong about the isnad? If certain Hadith are weak, why do we still have them, shouldn't they just be rejected so we don't attribute something false to God and his Messenger.
No, we shouldn't reject the hadith which they are classified as weak hadiths, because they are case and clue, we use them as pretexts but of course we don't practice them because the sanad is weak and the Matan is weak and there are three ways of using it.
Why didn't Malik mention anything about the Mehdi, Dajjal and return of Jesus, but other hadith collectors did? Who do we trust?
do you know that the coming of Mehdi mentioned in Quran in a clever way ?
( ٍ
( َ. ( 105)
( َ.
the verses that I gave you are so clear and with a little bit of concentration, you'll see this
1- the firs verse God told us that he detain the day of Judgement because it'll be another specific nation of Islam, not us (you know we're the weak nation of Islam) so it'll another one in the future and God knows .
2- the second verse God told us that he wrote in the Zabour after the Quran that the earth will be inherited by his good doers ( Now the earth still in the hand of infidels and the non-believers and jewish in general, so here the verse is too clear that the earth will be inherited by Muslims in the future, so the verse not contradicts with the hadiths because Mehdi will gather Muslims in one union and then he will inherite the earth ).
3- the third verse talks about the weak people in his earth( Arabs and Muslims are now the weak nations), and that God want to grace him on the earth and leave from them the Imams and he will make them the Inheritors on earth. look the verse mentioned Imam, according to the hadiths this Imam is Al-Mehdi .
Just some questions.
I've answered your questions , so hope you like them yes
I actually don't reject all hadith, but I use the Quran as the criterion for judging hadith as God has informed us.
Good, it's a good way , I call the Qur'an the Criterion.
Remember God also said. "The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence." - The Qur'an Surah 3918
Bukhari did a great efforts in collecting hadiths , and he shows us the Sahih and the weak and the Hassan, so why people "Qur'anists" who they can't even interpret one verse correct, calling to reject hadiths. you know what that these people have seen some issues in hadith very hard to practice it(like salate) they want to do it like christian, and as ( Hijab) they want to make people without shyness and they want to immitate the ennemies of Allah.
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Quran1 Hadith 0
?ber PWNAGE! jediQuran 1 hadith 1
whithout hadith you'll never know how to be a Muslim .
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Quran 1 hadith 1
whithout hadith you'll never know how to be a Muslim .
With hadith you'll never know what Quran says. When Quran says 'A', hadith says not 'A'.
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You have to look for the story of Bukhari, and you'll know that he was guided by God.
And this is what he thought of the Prophet
(1) Narrated Aisha Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. (Book #53, Hadith #400)
So according to Bukhari, we can't trust the Prophet. Maybe when he prophecised about quraniyoon, he was majnoon at the time? lol.
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Thereformer, so the Prophet warned us about the Quraniyoon yet in the Quran itself he was told say I only follow that which is revealed unto me
I know you're really into context and I think that's great so lets see the context of that, ayah 10/15
And when Our Clear Verses are recited unto them, those who hope not for their meeting with Us, say Bring us a Quran other than this, or change it."Say (O Muhammad SAW) "It is not for me to change it on my own accord; I only follow that which is revealed unto me. Verily, I fear if I were to disobey my Lord, the torment of the Great Day
So if you notice, some say when the clear verses (not hadith yeah, clear VERSES) 'bring us a quran other than this or CHANGE this'. The Prophet was told to reply 'its not for me to change it'. Why was he told to say this? Does hadith overturn many Quranic injunctions? Then he was commanded to say 'i follow only that which is revealed to me'. So what is 'revealed to him'? Go back to the beginning of the ayah and the answer is simple THE QURAN.
So that hadith you quoted is false and probably created in order to scare people into believing hadith. It worked.well, wrong interpretation, the verse is clear, " I only follow that which is revealed unto me " including the revealing things is Qur'an, so Qur'an came in the beginning of verse, so if God wants to refer that the revealed thing is just Qur'an, he will refer it by " " in the end of the " " or if God wants to say that the revealed thing is just Qur'an, he will refer it by " " or " ". UNfortunately there is none of these things in verse refer to that the revealed is Qur'an alone.
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Quran 1 hadith 1
whithout hadith you'll never know how to be a Muslim .
So you are suggesting that the cause why most of Mushrekeen did not become Muslims since the Messsenger s.a.s did not give them hadith and they had no Bukhari and Muslim amonst them at that point in time?
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And their purpose/resolve/attempt was to try you the Messenger about the one, Grand Qur'aan, which We have sent to you so that you may say something other than the Qur'aan attributable to Us;
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And in that case they would certainly have made you a fast friend.
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And had We not kept you firm in your resolve, indeed the deceptive move/attempt was that you come near to them a little soft and obliging.
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In that case We would have made you taste the life twice and the death twice
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Afterwards you will not find for your self any helper before Us.It is time that before landing straight into Hell, once stops attributing to the Messenger s.a.s. anything that is NOT written in Qur'aan and hence is NOT stated by him. Bukhari will refuse to take responsibility under the plea that he never said that what he is compiling is TRUTH.
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And this is what he thought of the Prophet
(1) Narrated Aisha Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. (Book #53, Hadith #400)
So according to Bukhari, we can't trust the Prophet. Maybe when he prophecised about quraniyoon, he was majnoon at the time? lol.hey first of all respect the prophet or the debate will take another way .
second of all , write all the hadith , not just what you want . the hadith is" ( , , , . . . . , , , ) (326
here Aisha may God be pleased with her describe a journey when the prophet was bewitched and he said to her that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done, well if you're clever enough you'll see the use of the verb "do" which different totaly from the verb "say" .
and one more thing in this time when the prophet was bewitched he came in his thoughts that he slept whith his wives which is in fact he had not done .
then the prophet told them about the place of where they put the witch stuff and they abolished it -
With hadith you'll never know what Quran says. When Quran says 'A', hadith says not 'A'.
when Quran says" A", hadiths says not "A" in fact he says " B"
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(When Bukhari and others were fabricating whatever came to their minds they even never bothered to know what can make anyone in the state . Unless something is placed physically before the eyes of someone to create visual illusion no perception occurs in the mind. Some stupid and ghoof fabricated this story.