did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?

Thereformer1

Why didn't God inform us that one day a man named Bukhari would compile another book for us to follow.

I think God should tell you that you will see using your eyes not your mouth, isn't? . nonsensical question. why would he ?

Why didn't God inform us about isnad to guide us to the correct hadith.

why didn't God inform us about free-mind to the correct way?

Before Bukhari were the muslims supposed to follow any of the thousands upon thousands hadith they heard.

before the Bukhari were Muslims killed everyone lied about the saying of the prophet.

Do I follow Sunni or Shai hadith? If one why not the other?

I'm not to force what side will you choose, but as I see Sunni is the best one , after all the sunni man respect the Sahaba and the prophet as well .

What if the Hadith has a strong isnad but contradicts the Quran, should I follow the Hadith (like in the Hanbali school)

there is no strong isnad in hadith contradicts the Qur'an, you should know that . I've read hadiths and I have Sahih Muslim and I didn't find anything contradicts the Qur'an . if it is the case as you said , we will reject the hadith but just what contradicts the Qur'an and I think there is no hadiths sahih contradicts the Quran.
I don't recommand you to choose any school, because I don't choose any school.

On that note, will I be judged by God based on which school I follow when the schools have difference of opinion?

who knows, but what I'm sure about, who rejects the hadith (God said he has not a real faith or his faith is not strong).

Why didn't God inform us about the different schools of thought to follow? If Bukhari only kept a small percent of hadith obviously there were a lot of people making stuff and applying it to the prophet, how do we know the Hadith collectors didn't make mistakes?

You have to look for the story of Bukhari, and you'll know that he was guided by God.

What if they were wrong about the isnad? If certain Hadith are weak, why do we still have them, shouldn't they just be rejected so we don't attribute something false to God and his Messenger.

No, we shouldn't reject the hadith which they are classified as weak hadiths, because they are case and clue, we use them as pretexts but of course we don't practice them because the sanad is weak and the Matan is weak and there are three ways of using it.

Why didn't Malik mention anything about the Mehdi, Dajjal and return of Jesus, but other hadith collectors did? Who do we trust?

do you know that the coming of Mehdi mentioned in Quran in a clever way ?

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the verses that I gave you are so clear and with a little bit of concentration, you'll see this

1- the firs verse God told us that he detain the day of Judgement because it'll be another specific nation of Islam, not us (you know we're the weak nation of Islam) so it'll another one in the future and God knows .

2- the second verse God told us that he wrote in the Zabour after the Quran that the earth will be inherited by his good doers ( Now the earth still in the hand of infidels and the non-believers and jewish in general, so here the verse is too clear that the earth will be inherited by Muslims in the future, so the verse not contradicts with the hadiths because Mehdi will gather Muslims in one union and then he will inherite the earth ).

3- the third verse talks about the weak people in his earth( Arabs and Muslims are now the weak nations), and that God want to grace him on the earth and leave from them the Imams and he will make them the Inheritors on earth. look the verse mentioned Imam, according to the hadiths this Imam is Al-Mehdi .

Just some questions.

I've answered your questions , so hope you like them yes

I actually don't reject all hadith, but I use the Quran as the criterion for judging hadith as God has informed us.

Good, it's a good way , I call the Qur'an the Criterion.

Remember God also said. "The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence." - The Qur'an Surah 3918

Bukhari did a great efforts in collecting hadiths , and he shows us the Sahih and the weak and the Hassan, so why people "Qur'anists" who they can't even interpret one verse correct, calling to reject hadiths. you know what that these people have seen some issues in hadith very hard to practice it(like salate) they want to do it like christian, and as ( Hijab) they want to make people without shyness and they want to immitate the ennemies of Allah.

Thereformer1

Quran1 Hadith 0
?ber PWNAGE! jedi

Quran 1 hadith 1

whithout hadith you'll never know how to be a Muslim .

abdalquran

Quran 1 hadith 1

whithout hadith you'll never know how to be a Muslim .

With hadith you'll never know what Quran says. When Quran says 'A', hadith says not 'A'.

abdalquran

You have to look for the story of Bukhari, and you'll know that he was guided by God.

And this is what he thought of the Prophet

(1) Narrated Aisha Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. (Book #53, Hadith #400)

So according to Bukhari, we can't trust the Prophet. Maybe when he prophecised about quraniyoon, he was majnoon at the time? lol.

Thereformer1

Thereformer, so the Prophet warned us about the Quraniyoon yet in the Quran itself he was told say I only follow that which is revealed unto me
I know you're really into context and I think that's great so lets see the context of that, ayah 10/15
And when Our Clear Verses are recited unto them, those who hope not for their meeting with Us, say Bring us a Quran other than this, or change it."Say (O Muhammad SAW) "It is not for me to change it on my own accord; I only follow that which is revealed unto me. Verily, I fear if I were to disobey my Lord, the torment of the Great Day
So if you notice, some say when the clear verses (not hadith yeah, clear VERSES) 'bring us a quran other than this or CHANGE this'. The Prophet was told to reply 'its not for me to change it'. Why was he told to say this? Does hadith overturn many Quranic injunctions? Then he was commanded to say 'i follow only that which is revealed to me'. So what is 'revealed to him'? Go back to the beginning of the ayah and the answer is simple THE QURAN.
So that hadith you quoted is false and probably created in order to scare people into believing hadith. It worked.

well, wrong interpretation, the verse is clear, " I only follow that which is revealed unto me " including the revealing things is Qur'an, so Qur'an came in the beginning of verse, so if God wants to refer that the revealed thing is just Qur'an, he will refer it by " " in the end of the " " or if God wants to say that the revealed thing is just Qur'an, he will refer it by " " or " ". UNfortunately there is none of these things in verse refer to that the revealed is Qur'an alone.

Mazhar

Quran 1 hadith 1

whithout hadith you'll never know how to be a Muslim .

So you are suggesting that the cause why most of Mushrekeen did not become Muslims since the Messsenger s.a.s did not give them hadith and they had no Bukhari and Muslim amonst them at that point in time?

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And their purpose/resolve/attempt was to try you the Messenger about the one, Grand Qur'aan, which We have sent to you so that you may say something other than the Qur'aan attributable to Us;
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And in that case they would certainly have made you a fast friend.
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And had We not kept you firm in your resolve, indeed the deceptive move/attempt was that you come near to them a little soft and obliging.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.75.gif
In that case We would have made you taste the life twice and the death twice
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.75a.gif
Afterwards you will not find for your self any helper before Us.

It is time that before landing straight into Hell, once stops attributing to the Messenger s.a.s. anything that is NOT written in Qur'aan and hence is NOT stated by him. Bukhari will refuse to take responsibility under the plea that he never said that what he is compiling is TRUTH.

Thereformer1

And this is what he thought of the Prophet

(1) Narrated Aisha Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. (Book #53, Hadith #400)
So according to Bukhari, we can't trust the Prophet. Maybe when he prophecised about quraniyoon, he was majnoon at the time? lol.

hey first of all respect the prophet or the debate will take another way .
second of all , write all the hadith , not just what you want . the hadith is

" ( , , , . . . . , , , ) (326

here Aisha may God be pleased with her describe a journey when the prophet was bewitched and he said to her that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done, well if you're clever enough you'll see the use of the verb "do" which different totaly from the verb "say" .
and one more thing in this time when the prophet was bewitched he came in his thoughts that he slept whith his wives which is in fact he had not done .
then the prophet told them about the place of where they put the witch stuff and they abolished it

Thereformer1

With hadith you'll never know what Quran says. When Quran says 'A', hadith says not 'A'.

when Quran says" A", hadiths says not "A" in fact he says " B"

Mazhar

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When Bukhari and others were fabricating whatever came to their minds they even never bothered to know what can make anyone in the state . Unless something is placed physically before the eyes of someone to create visual illusion no perception occurs in the mind. Some stupid and ghoof fabricated this story.

abdalquran

well, wrong interpretation, the verse is clear, " I only follow that which is revealed unto me " including the revealing things is Qur'an, so Qur'an came in the beginning of verse, so if God wants to refer that the revealed thing is just Qur'an, he will refer it by " " in the end of the " " or if God wants to say that the revealed thing is just Qur'an, he will refer it by " " or " ". UNfortunately there is none of these things in verse refer to that the revealed is Qur'an alone.

Listan pal, lets not hide behind this grammatical nonsense. The Quran not only came in the beginning of the verse, it is the only thing mentioned in the verse. Why was the Prophet not told to say 'i cant change it EXCEPT with hadith' or 'i can abrogate or specifiy it with hadith' ? No no no, only the Quran is mentioned and thats the only thing which was revealed.

Thereformer1

So you are suggesting that the cause why most of Mushrekeen did not become Muslims since the Messsenger s.a.s did not give them hadith and they had no Bukhari and Muslim amonst them at that point in time?

well, let me correct your ideas , there were men before Bukhari and Muslim and these men gathered hadith before Bukhari and Muslim, Bukhari and Muslim just studied it and classified it.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0005.%20RAIB/51.%2017.73.gif
And their purpose/resolve/attempt was to try you the Messenger about the one, Grand Qur'aan, which We have sent to you so that you may say something other than the Qur'aan attributable to Us;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0005.%20RAIB/51.%20a%2017.73.gif

this verse described a specific problem when the Qur'aysh( the non-believers from them) came to the prophet disputing with him to accept doing some things and making it valid for them and those things were against Islam, and the prophet with their insisting became so confused about that and he was at the point of making it valid but God infalible him for not doing this thing because if he did it, he would make another law not existing in Qur'an.

Anyways I've explained the context of this verse and about the other verses that you have stated, they are not under their context like this one that I have explained its context.

It is time that before landing straight into Hell, once stops attributing to the Messenger s.a.s. anything that is NOT written in Qur'aan and hence is NOT stated by him. Bukhari will refuse to take responsibility under the plea that he never said that what he is compiling is TRUTH.

well, the hadith is Sahih and there is no "" in it, Bukhari knows that lying about the prophet is a crime and the criminal will take a place in hell, so he would be more careful more than what you think . and one more thing the messenger " " not "s.a.s"

Leyna

and as ( Hijab) they want to make people without shyness

So people who don't believe hijab is an obligation want to "make people without shyness"? What is that supposed to mean? -\

Shyness is not a positive thing. Modesty is, shyness is not. And modesty is an attitude, it can't be obtained by putting a piece of fabric on your head.

And by the way, most of the ahadeeth that are being used to claim that God orders women to cover their heads are declared weak even by traditional scholars, for example the much quoted one in which the prophet allegedly said ?When a woman reaches the ages of adolescence, nothing should be seen of her except her face and hands?.

But your argument doesn't surprise me. It's usually what hadith supporters resort to if they can't bring proper arguments and proofs. They think by accusing others of "only following their desires" and "trying to make it easy on themselves" they can shut them up. Lame.

Before you bash people whose opinion you obviously don't understand, I suggest you ponder on the following that has been posted on here some time ago

Those who reject hadith only do so cause they are lazy and don't want to perform (insert random ritual/rule here)

I've found that most of us who do reject hadith only do so after years of reflection and sincere research/study to find the true deen. Not because we want to duck out of our duties but rather because we genuinely want to know what God wants of us. Far from taking the easy way out, this journey takes far more time / study / thought / reflection. Further, since we don't blindly imitate the scholars of the past, we have to "start fresh" for lack of a better phrase. For most of us, this takes a large paradigmatic shift in worldview and is anything but easy. We take nothing for granted and question everything. Again, none of this is easy or "lazy."

Those who reject hadith hate/disrespect the Prophet

You hear this quite often. If you reject hadith which are attributed to the Prophet, you hate him. You don't only hear it with the Prophet; they'll say things like, "Aisha related this hadith, do you hate Aisha too? Do you think Aisha was lying?" This is all besides the point. Quite simply, we say that these accounts were later created and attributed to the Prophet. This is simple history. This is human nature. Far from disrespecting the Prophet, we believe we are bringing the deen back to the way Muhammad / Abraham / Moses / Jesus / etc. practiced it. We believe following these man-made accounts that were related in his name is what disrespects the Prophet and paints him in a negative light.

Those who reject hadith simply don't know the real rules of Islam or have misunderstood what Islam is all about

I hear this a lot. Sunnis will assume those of us who reject hadith havent studied or simply speak from ignorance. They proudly show you verses like "Obey God and obey the Messenger" as if it's something we've never noticed.

Those who reject hadith are trying to imitate Western culture

This idea manifests itself in different ways and is a variation of the 1st point I made. They think you are trying to be lazy and take the easy way out, which they see as Western ideals. To them, its not possible that you may interpret the Qur'an differently after much study. To them, it MUST be that you're someone who is lazy and who is not pious/faithful enough to follow the myriad rules/rituals of the true Islam.

http//www.free-minds.org80/forum/index.php?topic=5594.0

(sorry, the link is not working because this was posted before the board was re-done)

Thereformer1

"
When Bukhari and others were fabricating whatever came to their minds they even never bothered to know what can make anyone in the state . Unless something is placed physically before the eyes of someone to create visual illusion no perception occurs in the mind. Some stupid and ghoof fabricated this story.

the story is not fabricated, the which stuff exists and the types of which stuff plenty and it depends in the ability of the magicians (some do silly tricks, some powerful tricks from hurting people and control their lives( under what God has made in our destiny), some do sorcery and some use black magic).

and the prophets are not away from not being bewitched (if God wants to show that they are human after all), look for the story of Moses when he saw what the magicians threw from sticks and cords which they are turned into snakes.

abdalquran

hey first of all respect the prophet or the debate will take another way .
second of all , write all the hadith , not just what you want . the hadith is

" ( , , , . . . . , , , ) (326

here Aisha may God be pleased with her describe a journey when the prophet was bewitched and he said to her that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done, well if you're clever enough you'll see the use of the verb "do" which different totaly from the verb "say" .
and one more thing in this time when the prophet was bewitched he came in his thoughts that he slept whith his wives which is in fact he had not done .
then the prophet told them about the place of where they put the witch stuff and they abolished it

Firstly, I didn?t narrate the hadith. Bukhari did. Blame him.

Secondly, this is NOT the same hadith which I quoted. You have no proof that it is the same event because Bukhari simply recorded random bits of information.

Thirdly, you?re right that the verb is do (yaf3alu) but doesn?t hadith include deeds of the Prophet as well? Are you saying he can be bewitched in doings but not sayings?

Fourth, can you please quote from where you get that this ?bewitching? thing is only for sleeping with his wives and nothing else?

Mazhar

well, let me correct your ideas , there were men before Bukhari and Muslim and these men gathered hadith before Bukhari and Muslim, Bukhari and Muslim just studied it and classified it.
this verse described a specific problem when the Qur'aysh( the non-believers from them) came to the prophet disputing with him to accept doing some things and making it valid for them and those things were against Islam, and the prophet with their insisting became so confused about that and he was at the point of making it valid but God infalible him after doing this thing because if he did it, he would make another law not existing in Qur'an.

Anyways I've explained the context of this verse and about the other verses that you have stated, they are not under their context like this one that I have explained its context.

well, the hadith is Sahih and there is no "" in it, Bukhari knows that lying about the prophet is a crime and the criminal will take a place in hell, so he would be more careful more than what you think . and one more thing the messenger " " not "s.a.s"

Please try to translate the Words of Allah and find that the context is built in the verse. And why Bukhari failed to call his compilation as Al Haqq when you proclaim that he thought and there is no "" in it"? What you are saying, did he say or claimed this? If yes quote him. And perhaps I need not say and tell an Arab that the word "Sahih" has a built in element of doubt in it.

Thereformer1

Listan pal, lets not hide behind this grammatical nonsense. The Quran not only came in the beginning of the verse, it is the only thing mentioned in the verse. Why was the Prophet not told to say 'i cant change it EXCEPT with hadith' or 'i can abrogate or specifiy it with hadith' ? No no no, only the Quran is mentioned and thats the only thing which was revealed.

well, I know arabic very well and I can prove that the verse didn't talk about Qur'an only, God revealed some future events to his prophet, these future events some of them are not mentioned in Qur'an. According to my opinion that God wants from the prophet to warn the next generations after his death(Muslims generations), and to strethen his message in the future because people now when they read the hadith sahih, they found that some cases in hadiths are so miraculous like the building of the mosque in Sana'a (it is a geographical Miracle from the prophet where there was no GPS no Satelittes to know the exact Latitude and longitude and to know the right directions)

Mazhar

the story is not fabricated, the which stuff exists and the types of which stuff plenty and it depends in the ability of the magicians (some do silly tricks, some powerful tricks from hurting people and control their lives( under what God has made in our destiny), some do sorcery and some use black magic).

and the prophets are not away from not being bewitched (if God wants to show that they are human after all), look for the story of Moses when he saw what the magicians threw from sticks and cords which they are turned into snakes.

This is the "hallucinating" effect of stories by Bukhari and others. Pl read Qur'aan it nowhere says that those ropes and sticks turned into snakes. It says that an illusion was created and it was perceived as ONE snake moving in the thoughts of the people. And remember "sehr" is called only when the effect should be perceived the same by all.

abdalquran

well, I know arabic very well and I can prove that the verse didn't talk about Qur'an only, God revealed some future events to his prophet, these future events some of them are not mentioned in Qur'an. According to my opinion that God wants from the prophet to warn the next generations after his death(Muslims generations), and to strethen his message in the future because people now when they read the hadith sahih, they found that some cases in hadiths are so miraculous like the building of the mosque in Sana'a (it is a geographical Miracle from the prophet where there was no GPS no Satelittes to know the exact Latitude and longitude and to know the right directions)

Oh ok, can you USING ARABIC ONLY, prove to me that the ayah talks about OTHER than quran? I'd like to see what grammar rules can imagine something which isnt even mentioned there. Thanks

Thereformer1

Firstly, I didn?t narrate the hadith. Bukhari did. Blame him.

Fistly, you did not write the whole hadith. so maybe you're trying to take what he is good for you.

Secondly, this is NOT the same hadith which I quoted. You have no proof that it is the same event because Bukhari simply recorded random bits of information.

this is the same hadith, and what I wrote is more detailed than yours . what ? I have no proof ..I have three books in front of me, so cut this thing off the situation.

Thirdly, you?re right that the verb is do (yaf3alu) but doesn?t hadith include deeds of the Prophet as well? Are you saying he can be bewitched in doings but not sayings?

Yes, according to the hadith, he was bewitched in doing things which in fact had not done, and the hadith narrated by Aisha and she to avoid that he was talking about private things she said "" and if we look about the meaning of the verb other than "do", we will find that the verb means also the deeds of the privates things between the husband and his wife.

Fourth, can you please quote from where you get that this ?bewitching? thing is only for sleeping with his wives and nothing else?

Quote ??? I have books in front of me and I gave you the information so go look for it yourself and be sure. I interpret the meaning of the verb "yaf3alo" and it is with no doubt means "sleeping whith his wives" because we use this verb in arabic when we want to refer to sexual intercourse.

Thereformer1

This is the "hallucinating" effect of stories by Bukhari and others. Pl read Qur'aan it nowhere says that those ropes and sticks turned into snakes. It says that an illusion was created and it was perceived as ONE snake moving in the thoughts of the people. And remember "sehr" is called only when the effect should be perceived the same by all.

Yes , I agree that Moses saw the sticks and the cords as snakes (it's the illusion of Magic ), so I want just to pointed out that prophets are not away from being bewitched.