Crooked cosmology in the Quran?
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http//www.scribd.com/doc/13080325/Flat-Earth-Koran-01-of-13-Introduction
Excellent series of constructing the cosmos from the Quran using the plain and simple reading rather the crooked reading of those who claim that the Quran validates recent scientific knowledge.
Could it be that human cosmology is the one that is crooked? hmm
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So are you saying that there is no Scientific "miracles" in the Quran at all?
Isnt the Author of this book Against the Quran?The Quran is scientifically naive just as the other ancients texts. If you say that the Quran have scientific truths so the Jewish haggada and the Book of Enoch have them as well. I will tell you something weird, the Quran always says that the water comes from Samaa 'heaven' and never from cloud 'ghamam, sehab'. What do you make of this?
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The Quran is scientifically naive just as the other ancients texts. If you say that the Quran have scientific truths so the Jewish haggada and the Book of Enoch have them as well. I will tell you something weird, the Quran always says that the water comes from Samaa 'heaven' and never from cloud 'ghamam, sehab'. What do you make of this?
I make of this that you don't understand what natural epistemology is. Natural epistemology is the philosophy of knowledge which focusses on what we can know based on our human faculties alone. I don't 'see' clouds emitting rain drops. I see rain coming from the sky. The only reason why you expect Quran to have 'scientific truths' is because you think scientific truths are static. They aren't.
The first point this person makes is that the Quran says the sun orbits around the earth (21/.33). Here's what Quran actually says
It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.
How do you call this book 'excellent' ?
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I make of this that you don't understand what natural epistemology is. Natural epistemology is the philosophy of knowledge which focusses on what we can know based on our human faculties alone. I don't 'see' clouds emitting rain drops. I see rain coming from the sky. The only reason why you expect Quran to have 'scientific truths' is because you think scientific truths are static. They aren't.
The first point this person makes is that the Quran says the sun orbits around the earth (21/.33). Here's what Quran actually says
It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.
How do you call this book 'excellent' ?
If natural epistemology was the true intention of God and not accurate science, so when the Quran says that the sun moves around the Earth, as the verse and the book said, so the Quran is true. According to our senses, the sun indeed goes around the earth, the sky is indeed a perfect dome and the earth is indeed flat.
So it is a matter of perspective.
I think if the Quran said accurate knowledge, it will very weird and not understandable to the desert bedoiun.
But still what is the seven heavens?! That was not natural epistemology. Was it?
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Rami I have a question Are you a Muslim? or an Athiest?
I dont mean to sound arrogant, Iam just Curious to know.Another thing, I personnally think Seven Heavens refferes to a Spiritual heaven/relms or it could be physical symotaniously.
But I think more of a Spiritual Phanominon.anyways, I think that the Quran is FULL of Scientific Miracles. we are apart of the Quranic Revelation Era/Age.
Muhammad's people/era were apart of the inital Quranic Revelation/Physical Implametation.
They read these vereses (of Scientific Matters) and believed in them to the best of their ability...yet probabily could not fully understand or fathom what they really mean.However for us in the Technological Age, we CAN fully vairfy them and understand what it means.
I dont think the Quran says the Earth is Flat.
And to be Honest, I think there ARE Scientific Miracles in the Torah, and Injel and Books of the Jews and Christians. They are Our Books aswell and were created by Alllah, so there of course is Scientific Miracles to be found in them.
A Jahova's Witness (bible follower) told me a Scientific Miracle about onan in the Bible being punished for not inseminating a woman and instead spilling his Sperm on the ground. The bible says that God told him dont do that because there are Millions of towns and people and empieres living inside it....
So...Did the Bible writters have a Magic Microscope to know that or was it from God?
^btw this has to be varified, I have not found the exact verese so for now it is heresay.
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I believe in the Quran. But, like any mortal on Earth, it is healthy to criticise your beliefs once in a while and lose faith sometimes.
I think that the Bible and the Quran don't talk accurate science. Just perspectives.
Regarding the story of Onan, you misunderstood the verse, any person knows that only or two sperm fertilize an ovum at any one time. But the story is similar to that of Abel in the Mishna. When you kill a soul, you killed all of its geneology. So when you spill sperm, you just cancelled the potential line. But again, the God of Israel policies is to kill anyone who disobeys him. So DONT TOUCH THAT FREAKIN ARK!! D
Peace.
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I believe in the Quran. But, like any mortal on Earth, it is healthy to criticise your beliefs once in a while and lose faith sometimes.
You know its actually funny that you mention that.... The Quran (a book in which you say you believe) actually talks about people who do that.
You should give it a look if you want...I believe its called something like "those who flip in between belief and disbelief".... Its actually not a healthy thing at all.
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You know its actually funny that you mention that.... The Quran (a book in which you say you believe) actually talks about people who do that.
You should give it a look if you want...I believe its called something like "those who flip in between belief and disbelief".... Its actually not a healthy thing at all.
Yeah but can't you see its complete disconnection from reality a bit disturbing? I believe in it because the alternatives have no purpose.
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please elaborate.... confused
The Quran has many ideas that cannot be proven at all, its like Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. Bizarre cosmology, bizarre history, bizarre concepts.
And the progression of mythologies is really disturbing. I will ask you something, did Paleolithic man had the same religious convictions as you?
And what was the true religion before the Quran? Who? Where? and Why now?
But even if the Quran is false, the question remains! And you know what the primeval questions of mankind are. The Quran answers them all. But that was TOO LATE.
It is a mystery.
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I am sorry Rami, no offense but I cannot understand a word you are saying or try to understand what you are saying. confused
perhaps its just me... I dont know lol laugh
I will ask you something, did Paleolithic man had the same religious convictions as you?
And what was the true religion before the Quran? Who? Where? and Why now?
I dont even undestand the Question, But Ill attempt to answer since you specifically asked me it.
Did Paleolithic men have the same religious convictions as me? Um....Perhaps. I think that some were religious men who practiced islam.
Islam meaning submission to Allah. however that may be.For instance, I believe that there are alot of Native Indiginous people who are Muslim by deffitiion and Practice Islam by deffinition.
They dont speak arabic, but they serve the same "Great Spirit" or "Great Creator", and then you have some natives who then attributed other Animal-dieties to that great spirit..(shirk). Remember Allah sends messengers/message to All nations.The True religion was and will always be "Submission to Allah".
Even if you go to a desert island with NO QURAN...I believe Islam will still prevail, and Submission to Allah is STILL possible. (even without a Quran)..if your ever in that situation. I believe the Fitrah and Message will be made known to you. So I think this Outlook has Always been present on earth....even if it hasnt been practiced. -
The Quran has many ideas that cannot be proven at all, its like Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. Bizarre cosmology, bizarre history, bizarre concepts.
and yet a clear book that is easy to understand, that explains everything clearly, and like of the one cannot be produced. and there is no crookedness in the book, yes, thats what the book says! hail
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and yet a clear book that is easy to understand, that explains everything clearly, and like of the one cannot be produced. and there is no crookedness in the book, yes, thats what the book says! hail
Gotta love the Quran. Uber-style. jedi
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZD4gdrb3rI
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and yet a clear book that is easy to understand, that explains everything clearly, and like of the one cannot be produced. and there is no crookedness in the book, yes, thats what the book says! hail
bravo bravo
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If natural epistemology was the true intention of God and not accurate science, so when the Quran says that the sun moves around the Earth, as the verse and the book said, so the Quran is true. According to our senses, the sun indeed goes around the earth, the sky is indeed a perfect dome and the earth is indeed flat.
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Where's the verse which says 'the sun moves around the earth' ? I quoted 21/33 to show the author of the book misquoted the verse. Why don't YOU quote the verse for us?
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I don't see how the sky is a perfect dome. Maybe you're delusional.
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If the earth is flat, can you sail off it? Let me know what that feels like.
So it is a matter of perspective.
I think if the Quran said accurate knowledge, it will very weird and not understandable to the desert bedoiun.
Or perhaps to smug know-alls who think having some machinery makes them ?advanced?
But still what is the seven heavens?! That was not natural epistemology. Was it?
It could be if it was taken metaphorically. Notice when ?seven heavens? are mentioned, God?s throne is also mentioned. So it could be verified using spiritual faculties.
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I believe in the Quran. But, like any mortal on Earth, it is healthy to criticise your beliefs once in a while and lose faith sometimes.
In your case Rami, I'm not surprised. From the beginning you've been harping on like Indiana Jones trying to find from the pages of history and findings of archeology what the Quran is referring to. You're basically reading 'Windows XP Unleashed' then blaming that book for not teaching you origami.
However, your faith or lack thereof is your business. You don't need the Quran to be a believer.
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2133 And He is who created the night and the daytime, and the sun and the moon, every/all in (an) orbit/circuit floating.
The verse doesn't say anything about the Sun going around the earth. It talks about the sun and the moon "Floating/swimming" in it's own orbit. This could be literal (which the sun does have an orbit as science has proven) If it said the sun stays in the same position it would have be false.
It could also be by perception as it is referring to day and night as even now we figuratively refer to the Sun moving across the sky.
Some people could argue that it "means" the Sun revolves around the Earth, however it doesn't say that.
Even though we attribute many Scientific miracles to the Quran (as I believe there are). The Quran never claims to be a book of Science, nor does it try to be.
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Where's the verse which says 'the sun moves around the earth' ? I quoted 21/33 to show the author of the book misquoted the verse. Why don't YOU quote the verse for us?
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I don't see how the sky is a perfect dome. Maybe you're delusional.
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If the earth is flat, can you sail off it? Let me know what that feels like.
From using my senses alone without modern equipment that is the case. Lets quote 2133
He is the One who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each swimming in an orbit.
The sun swims like the moon. The sun sets and the sun rises in the Quran. If the theory of natual epistemology is true so it is pretty correct.
Or perhaps to smug know-alls who think having some machinery makes them advanced
There is much to learn. Maybe NASA is cooking all of the hubble images and nobody I guess crossed the world across the North-South axis.
It could be if it was taken metaphorically. Notice when seven heavens are mentioned, Gods throne is also mentioned. So it could be verified using spiritual faculties.
Spiritual faculties? You mean the seven heavens are metaphorical for something else? Very possible.
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