one Question for Quranists
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Ah, I see. Yes, that makes perfect sense.
nothing is perfect.
Says who?
Says me
There was nothing copied and posted in the post you were referring to.
ok I see ( you know this thing but you don't believe in it ) the old bla bla.
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Dear Mazhar
Like I said previously, you are missing the point and have quoted exactly what I stipulated. You have used the ayats relating to delivering the message but have conveniently left out anything to do with explaining the message. If for arguments sake I agree with you on delivery only, then how can the Prophet PBUH be judge and jury exactly like David, Moses and Jesus were? They all used the respective scriptures given to them by Allah SWT to judge their communities. Or were they also told to only deliver the message and then walk away? Part of delivering the message was to explain clearly and concisely what the message was.
You can only be a judge if you know and understand the law of the land. The Prophet PBUH had to understand the message he was delivering. And how did he understand? Because Allah SWT taught him and thus he practiced what he preached to show the people the right path. After that, his job was done.
If the job was to deliver without explanation, the Quran could have been placed on a rock with each person having a go themselves, similar to what PM's are doing. Allah SWT chose men throughout time to deliver His Divine Writs for a reason.
So once again, it is an article of faith to follow the Prophet PBUH because Allah SWT told mankind to follow him to get to Allah SWT. Not worship him, but follow him.
567 O APOSTLE! Announce all that has been bestowed from on high upon thee by thy Sustainer for unless thou doest it fully, thou wilt not have delivered His message . And God will protect thee from men behold, God does not guide people who refuse to acknowledge the truth.
4105 BEHOLD, We have bestowed upon thee from on high this divine writ, setting forth the truth, so that thou may judge between people in accordance with what God has taught thee. Hence, do not contend with those who are false to their trust,
542 those who eagerly listen to any falsehood, greedily swallowing all that is evil! Hence, if they come to thee , thou mayest either judge between them or leave them alone for, if thou leave them alone, they cannot harm thee in any way. But if thou dost judge, judge between them with equity verily, God knows those who act equitably.
2448 And whenever they are summoned unto God and His Apostle in order that might judge between them, lo! some of them turn away;
Finally, additional to being a Prophet and Messenger, Allah SWT also gave separate rulings which were only applicable to the Prophet PBUH which included extra prayers during the night and no one marrying his wives after his death. But people tend to put the Prophet PBUH in the same category as the average Joe Bloggs. No, he was especially chosen for the job because he had qualities better than the rest of us. He was the best example to follow in order to come to Allah SWT because Allah SWT said so.
How difficult can it be to accept this? I am sure that anyone of you that work, have absolutely no problems in towing the line of your bosses and following their aims and objectives for the corporation, but have a problem following the Prophet PBUH towards Allah SWT for salvation.
Peace
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Dear Mazhar
Like I said previously, you are missing the point and have quoted exactly what I stipulated. You have used the ayats relating to delivering the message but have conveniently left out anything to do with explaining the message. If for arguments sake I agree with you on delivery only, then how can the Prophet PBUH be judge and jury exactly like David, Moses and Jesus were? They all used the respective scriptures given to them by Allah SWT to judge their communities. Or were they also told to only deliver the message and then walk away? Part of delivering the message was to explain clearly and concisely what the message was.
You can only be a judge if you know and understand the law of the land. The Prophet PBUH had to understand the message he was delivering. And how did he understand? Because Allah SWT taught him and thus he practiced what he preached to show the people the right path. After that, his job was done.
If the job was to deliver without explanation, the Quran could have been placed on a rock with each person having a go themselves, similar to what PM's are doing. Allah SWT chose men throughout time to deliver His Divine Writs for a reason.
So once again, it is an article of faith to follow the Prophet PBUH because Allah SWT told mankind to follow him to get to Allah SWT. Not worship him, but follow him.
567 O APOSTLE! Announce all that has been bestowed from on high upon thee by thy Sustainer for unless thou doest it fully, thou wilt not have delivered His message . And God will protect thee from men behold, God does not guide people who refuse to acknowledge the truth.
4105 BEHOLD, We have bestowed upon thee from on high this divine writ, setting forth the truth, so that thou may judge between people in accordance with what God has taught thee. Hence, do not contend with those who are false to their trust,
542 those who eagerly listen to any falsehood, greedily swallowing all that is evil! Hence, if they come to thee , thou mayest either judge between them or leave them alone for, if thou leave them alone, they cannot harm thee in any way. But if thou dost judge, judge between them with equity verily, God knows those who act equitably.
2448 And whenever they are summoned unto God and His Apostle in order that might judge between them, lo! some of them turn away;
Finally, additional to being a Prophet and Messenger, Allah SWT also gave separate rulings which were only applicable to the Prophet PBUH which included extra prayers during the night and no one marrying his wives after his death. But people tend to put the Prophet PBUH in the same category as the average Joe Bloggs. No, he was especially chosen for the job because he had qualities better than the rest of us. He was the best example to follow in order to come to Allah SWT because Allah SWT said so.
How difficult can it be to accept this? I am sure that anyone of you that work, have absolutely no problems in towing the line of your bosses and following their aims and objectives for the corporation, but have a problem following the Prophet PBUH towards Allah SWT for salvation.
Peace
Nice reply Zulu12, but be sure that they will not answer you, or if they do they will say that the hadith is manipulated.
anayway I've read your reply and I like it so much especially the last paragraph "it was so good" the boss things )
Salam
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Dear thereformer1
It's true though. Anyone here that doesn't own their company and works for someone, has no problem following the boss, but when it comes to following the best boss in order to get to The Boss, they have a major problem thinking they are equal or better than the Prophet PBUH.
Anyway, each person to their own.
Salaam
Peace
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Nice reply Zulu12, but be sure that they will not answer you, or if they do they will say that the hadith is manipulated.
anayway I've read your reply and I like it so much especially the last paragraph "it was so good" the boss things
Salam
It is better for you to keep blowing baloons. You conveniently forgot your earlier post that none will answer attending his post. Everything is called hearsay until and unless the narrator has personally listened it from the tongue of the person to whom he is attributing the statement or has not got in written form. Bukhari collected gossips from the boys and people in the streets of his city from where he was finally ousted and compiled it calling them 'Hadith".
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Like I said previously, you are missing the point and have quoted exactly what I stipulated. You have used the ayats relating to delivering the message but have conveniently left out anything to do with explaining the message. If for arguments sake I agree with you on delivery only, then how can the Prophet PBUH be judge and jury exactly like David, Moses and Jesus were? They all used the respective scriptures given to them by Allah SWT to judge their communities. Or were they also told to only deliver the message and then walk away? Part of delivering the message was to explain clearly and concisely what the message was.
Let me show you the footage of those days and see what the Messenger was in reality doing
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/9.06.gif
And if any one from the polytheists seeks protection from you then you the Messenger grant him till he may listen the Words of Allah;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/9.06a.gif
afterwards he has listened then you make him reach his place of safety.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/009.%20At%20Tauba/009.%20At%20Tauba.htm
Do you think he was asked to explain those gossips of Bukhari etc?If the job was to deliver without explanation, the Quran could have been placed on a rock with each person having a go themselves, similar to what PM's are doing. Allah SWT chose men throughout time to deliver His Divine Writs for a reason.
This was also done. The Book given to Musa alahissalam was on rock tablets
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.145g.gif
And We had written down for him in the Tablets
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.145d%20{advice%20for%20everything}.gif
a polite and affectionate advice regarding each and every matter/act of appropriate conduct
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.154d.gif
and containing distinct and separate for each and every thing/matter.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.145b.gif
"Therefore hold these firmly and you command your nation that they should adopt the best of it ;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/007.%20Al%20Airaaf%20M.htmWhat happened afterwards? They had their own Bukhari's who wrote "hadith" books, and even is captioned, "fake hadith".
Did the Last Messenger accept a single "hadith" of Ibrahim, Ismail, Musa, Easa alahissalam which were prevelent in his days? Why not he accepted all such gossips covered under the sanctity of "hadith of the Messengers"? What was his answer in response to people's claim and their quotations? If we adopt the same attitude to what Bukhari's of our times tell us, we will only in that case be following the Last Messenger. And without following the Last Messenger no one is going to land in Paradise.
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It is better for you to keep blowing baloons. You conveniently forgot your earlier post that none will answer attending his post. Everything is called hearsay until and unless the narrator has personally listened it from the tongue of the person to whom he is attributing the statement or has not got in written form. Bukhari collected gossips from the boys and people in the streets of his city from where he was finally ousted and compiled it calling them 'Hadith".
and it is better for you to cath the blowing baloons. if it was Bukhari as you said collecting hadith from streets, he will not even mention people like you .
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Dear thereformer1
It's true though. Anyone here that doesn't own their company and works for someone, has no problem following the boss, but when it comes to following the best boss in order to get to The Boss, they have a major problem thinking they are equal or better than the Prophet PBUH.
Anyway, each person to their own.
Salaam
Peace
Salam Alaykom Zulu12;
Yeah you're right " each person to their own" ...I'm really wasting my time with these people .
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and it is better for you to cath the blowing baloons. if it was Bukhari as you said collecting hadith from streets, he will not even mention people like you .
If he was not collecting it from various people in the streets, then from where he got a million "hadith" from which he selected only about 4500 for his book and threw the rest in the dust bin? Was he not the rejector of majority of hadith he collected and then threw away?
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If he was not collecting it from various people in the streets, then from where he got a million "hadith" from which he selected only about 4500 for his book and threw the rest in the dust bin? Was he not the rejector of majority of hadith he collected and then threw away?
well, he collected hadith and he studied the matan and the sanad and the rawi, by this way he leave no chance to make a mistake. you'll know this thing if you studied the hadith.
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well, he collected hadith and he studied the matan and the sanad and the rawi, by this way he leave no chance to make a mistake. you'll know this thing if you studied the hadith.
Evasive reply reflective of doubts in your mind. (1) From where he collected a million hadith? (2) Did he get it from some book of hadith written earlier than his time? (3) From where he collected the information about the sanad and rawi except orally from people in the street? (4) Why was he roaming in streets and place to place in search of finding some saying if he had written record with him?
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Evasive reply reflective of doubts in your mind.
Doubts of what ?
(1) From where he collected a million hadith?
from where ? is this a question, I think you have never asked yourself this question, that's why you have asked it now to know the answer .
the hadith has been written before Bukhari years ago, and people at this time were good in keeping what they heard in their hearts not like us today we can't remember what we ate yesterday.
the hadith has been written in the existence of the prophet by Abu Horaira and lots of Sahaba, and they have taught people the hadith and people wrote it also until the age of Omar Bno Abdel Aziz who ordered to write hadith in books and classified it ( at this time the sons of the friends of the prophet were alive, so they taught people what they got from their parent which they were with the prophet). then after that it came a great sheikh called Imam Malik and he also classified hadith and he wrote just the Sahih and at this time was another sheikh Called Imam Shafi"ai who did the same job known that they were in separate places, then it was just a few years and the age announced the great man Bukhari who did classify hadith and studied the way of the rowatte and their validity and the Sanad and the Matan, even he beated in his age every all-knowing in ahadith (I guess it was a gift from God), they have challenged him, and he won the challenge and he became famous, then at the time of his existence arose another man called Muslim who did a great efforts in searching in his own the validity of ahadith and he found the same results of Bukhari with a little bit of difference in the number. what you don't know that after the death of the prophet, the Sahaba spread on earth and taught every nation this hadith of the prophet and they taught them the sunnah of the prophet.
You know that there was 100.000 Sahabi around the prophet, so how you think that hadith will be manipulated? and how can Bukhari predict events have already happened ? and how can Bukhari or any other Sahaba lied and they knew that the liar (especially who lied about the prophet) will dwell the hell?.
(2) Did he get it from some book of hadith written earlier than his time?
Yes, Before Bukhari, there were men lived with the friends of the prophet. like Ash'ab . and there were schools of FIQH.
(3) From where he collected the information about the sanad and rawi except orally from people in the street?
No, wrong....the Oral things are for Rowatte ( he asked for example their families and their friends and their sons about their parents who they wrote the hadith, and he was trying to find a mistake in their life, a small mistake from his parents Bukhari rejected the hadith). one day Bukhari have asked a sheikh about hadith and he knew that this man has lied to animals, so he rejected the hadith because he lied to an animal.
the hadith was in paperes before Bukhari, he just classified it and studied the "" and he rejected every hadith contradicts with Quran.(4) Why was he roaming in streets and place to place in search of finding some saying if he had written record with him?
he was roaming in streets and place to place in search of finding the shouyoukh of hadith not looking for kids, there were schools of FIQH before and the second aim of his roaming is to make sure of the Sanad, because people before they don't like to say any hadith without its Sanad to avoid lying about the prophet.
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the hadith has been written in the existence of the prophet by Abu Horaira and lots of Sahaba,
How long did Abu Huraira spend WITH the prophet?what you don't know that after the death of the prophet, the Sahaba spread on earth and taught every nation this hadith of the prophet and they taught them the sunnah of the prophet.
Did they also manage to remember to teach a bit of Quran while they were so engrosed teaching that which the prophet told them not to?No, wrong....the Oral things are for Rowatte ( he asked for example their families and their friends and their sons about their parents who they wrote the hadith, and he was trying to find a mistake in their life, a small mistake from his parents Bukhari rejected the hadith
one day Bukhari have asked a sheikh about hadith and he knew that this man has lied to animals, so he rejected the hadith because he lied to an animal.).
Bukhari was born 200 years after the prophet died, the sons of those who wrote the hadith would also be dead, how did he ask the sons about their parents mistakes? If he was looking for fabricated hadith and mistakes, how come he kept all Abu hurairas hadith who was a known 'story teller' of fabricated tales and rejected someones because he 'lied to an animal'?the hadith was in paperes before Bukhari, he just classified it and studied the "" and he rejected every hadith contradicts with Quran.
there are still many that contradict Quran, there are many that ADD to the Quran, how do you explain that? There is no stoning for adultery in Quran, did God forget to tell the prophet that before Quran was put in written form? Did God send him memo's and 'PS's' after Quran was 'complete'?he was roaming in streets and place to place in search of finding the shouyoukh of hadith not looking for kids, there were schools of FIQH before and the second aim of his roaming is to make sure of the Sanad, because people before they don't like to say any hadith without its Sanad to avoid lying about the prophet.
You still assume that all these people are good people and that when Allah said he has sent enemies to EVERY prophet that they are not among these people, illogical. You are still forgetting the 200 year gap between Muhammeds death and Bukharis birth, add on a few more years for bukhari to grow a bit as I doubt he started collecting and interviewing from his mothers breast.
Sorry, well brainwashed, learnt and recited but if you DO actually use your mind and think and reflect you will see it makes no sense. No wonder you are told not to use your own mind in religious matters by the enemies of God's Book
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one day Bukhari have asked a sheikh about hadith and he knew that this man has lied to animals, so he rejected the hadith because he lied to an animal.
Did he cheat the animals too? An animal con he was. The animals must have lists of known and wanted criminals, maybe even an international police force...Animals Without Boundaries Task Force Inc or some such. On the other hand, realistically (ahem) how does one lie to an animal? C'mere kitty, there's some nice warm milk, just behind that door...hey now, don't be scared, just go on in and drink up...a little more... there you go...BAM! the hammer falls. Poor kitty.
This has to be a wind up. There's no way anyone would seriously make statements like this or that people are ALL born right-handed and curse the devious parents/environment/snacks for their left-handedness.
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This has to be a wind up. There's no way anyone would seriously make statements like this or that people are ALL born right-handed and curse the devious parents/environment/snacks for their left-handedness.
Happens all the time here, twins turn into cats at night and go out to play too. ;D
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How long did Abu Huraira spend WITH the prophet?
they said 4 years but I think it's more than 4 years.
Did they also manage to remember to teach a bit of Quran while they were so engrosed teaching that which the prophet told them not to?
No, that's why someone likes you know Quran.
Bukhari was born 200 years after the prophet died, the sons of those who wrote the hadith would also be dead, how did he ask the sons about their parents mistakes?
is that mean that the sons of the sons of the Sahaba are vanished ? I know a woman lived 124 years and she rememebered the tiny events of her childhood.. give it a break.
If he was looking for fabricated hadith and mistakes, how come he kept all Abu hurairas hadith who was a known 'story teller' of fabricated tales and rejected someones because he 'lied to an animal'?
lol, lack of knowledge, he kept just 446 hadith from Abu Horaira. there were 5374 hadith from Horaira.
Yes, he was very careful about collecting hadith, so he didn't take hadith from someone lies to an animal.
there are still many that contradict Quran, there are many that ADD to the Quran, how do you explain that?
No, there is no Hadith contradicts Quran, and the Adds are the ligeslations of the prophet and his friends and we must obey them as a Salaf Asaleh.
There is no stoning for adultery in Quran, did God forget to tell the prophet that before Quran was put in written form? Did God send him memo's and 'PS's' after Quran was 'complete'?
there is no names of human in Quran, I think Quran must tell you how to pee.
You still assume that all these people are good people and that when Allah said he has sent enemies to EVERY prophet that they are not among these people, illogical.
Yes, God sent ennemies, but do you know what kind of ennemies?
You are still forgetting the 200 year gap between Muhammeds death and Bukharis birth, add on a few more years for bukhari to grow a bit as I doubt he started collecting and interviewing from his mothers breast.
You're still forgetting that God sent to every nation good people to make people remember his religion. in every couples of years God sent a man to make his religion alive again.
" "
Sorry, well brainwashed, learnt and recited but if you DO actually use your mind and think and reflect you will see it makes no sense. No wonder you are told not to use your own mind in religious matters by the enemies of God's Book
I use your mind more than what you think, so I'll let you assuming the opposite because from what you think about me, I'm strong.
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rotfl rotfl rotfl
sorry, will reply later, gotta 'do lunch' but thanks for the humour ;DAs laughter increases, respect decreases.
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"Suppositions" friends, cannot become the basis for any serious discussions on the topics of Quran, Rasool and His commandments.
The questions arise from your "One Question for Quranists" are -- Why do you indulge in this kind of useless verbiage?
- Do you think this is the only way to judge people's loyalties towards Rasool?
- Why would the Rasool ask me to do something which is un-Quranic?
- Why wouldn't one do as asked to do by the Rasool himself?
- It is the command of a divine ruler with a divine mandate to establish Kingdom of God. Why wouldn't every Muslim obey?
- Are you being asked to obey or to give your opinion about the right or wrong of a command?
- It is not a consultation, but a direct command by your Ruler. Do you have justification to argue?
- Where and why Hadith comes in the picture here? Hadith was concocted and compiled in 2nd/3rd century AH? By enemies of Islam!
God bless you.