new truth revealed
-
Are we taking about reading the previous scriptures as a form of guidance or studying them in order to determine their message and Laws?
I was under the impression that we do accept the previous scriptures as an article of faith, but the problem is that they are nowhere to be found in their original format. Because they were corrupted by man, the Quran was sent down as the final scripture confirming them and free from error or corruption, so the Quran now supersedes the previous scriptures.
Peace
-
sorry, you checked the translation of the verse not the tafsir , the explanation.
Are we reading the same link? The one I gave contained an explanation of the verse. If you have an explanation by Ibn Kathir that is not in there, could you kindly provide it? Thanks.
-
Are we taking about reading the previous scriptures as a form of guidance or studying them in order to determine their message and Laws?
I was under the impression that we do accept the previous scriptures as an article of faith, but the problem is that they are nowhere to be found in their original format. Because they were corrupted by man, the Quran was sent down as the final scripture confirming them and free from error or corruption, so the Quran now supersedes the previous scriptures.
Peacethat's what I want I said to them, yet I'm calling a dead man walking asking for a proof from Quran .
-
Are we reading the same link? The one I gave contained an explanation of the verse. If you have an explanation by Ibn Kathir that is not in there, could you kindly provide it? Thanks.
I've visited the website that you have gave me in the link and there is no explanation plus explanation are shirt and it's just around the words, and I could not provide any other explanation because it's an Arabic.
-
That is hadith, I specifically asked where in QURAN. You cant use hadith to justify hadith when you have been asked where in QURAN it says this. Admit it doesnt say it, in fact Quran promotes reading these books, it confirms they are also from the same source. To study anything, ANYTHING, you start at the beginning, not at the end and then say you know it and understand it.
You should know that Quran is not complete & you cannot understand it without Hadiths, you must learn all this from Ulama first then you will be considered Muslima. P
-
where does Quran say that where does Quran say that, are you with a mental disease, not everything in Quran, this is what you must learn using your mind yourself, the other Books of Allah have been distorted, so Quran came to ban reading them. can I know why you want to read the other books from Allah?
hahaha and what this verse means { {
No, wrong ..... this is the verse
( )" ? 126 "
we believe in the prophets and we believe in their books, but we don't read them because they have been distorted and Quran came to ban reading them except the scientists of Quran because they have to defend about any misunderstood about Quran.
Wqw Sunnism is the best form of iman EVERY THING IS NOT IN THE QURAN tempt
-
there is no explanation
Yes, there is
Allah directed His believing servants to believe in what He sent down to them through His Messenger Muhammad and in what was revealed to the previous Prophets in general. Some Prophets Allah mentioned by name, while He did not mention the names of many others. Allah directed the believers to refrain from differentiating between the Prophets and to believe in them all. They should avoid imitating whomever Allah described as,
(And wish to make distinction between Allah and His Messengers (by believing in Allah and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, "We believe in some but reject others,'' and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers) (4150-151).
Al-Bukhari narrated that Abu Hurayrah said, "The People of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and translate it into Arabic for the Muslims. The Messenger of Allah said,
? ?
(Do not believe the People of the Book, nor reject what they say. Rather, say, `We believe in Allah and in what was sent down to us.)''
Also, Muslim, Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "Mostly, the Messenger of Allah used to recite,
(We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us) (2 136), and,
(We believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah)) (352) during the two (voluntary) Rak`at before Fajr.''
Abu Al-
Aliyah, Ar-Rabiand Qatadah said, "Al-Asbat are the twelve sons of Jacob, and each one of them had an Ummah of people from his descendants. This is why they were called Al-Asbat.'' Al-Khalil bin Ahmad and others said, "Al-Asbat among the Children of Israel are just like the tribes among the Children of Isma`il.'' This means that the Asbat are the various tribes of the Children of Israel, among whom Allah sent several Prophets. Moses said to the Children of Israel,(Remember the favor of Allah to you when He made Prophets among you, made you kings) (520). Also, Allah said,
(And We divided them into twelve tribes) (7160).
Al-Qurtubi said, "Sibt is the group of people or a tribe all belonging to the same ancestors.''
Qatadah said, "Allah commanded the believers to believe in Him and in all His Books and Messengers. '' Also, Sulayman bin Habib said, "We were commanded to believe in the (original) Torah and Injil, but not to implement them.''
(137. So if they believe in the like of that which you believe then they are rightly guided; but if they turn away, then they are only in opposition. So Allah will suffice for you against them. And He is the Hearer, the Knower.) (138. Our Sibghah (religion) is the Sibghah of Allah (Islam) and which Sibghah can be better than Allah's And we are His worshippers.)
Allah said, if they, the disbelievers among the People of the Book and other disbelievers, believe in all of Allah's Books and Messengers and do not differentiate between any of them,
(then they are rightly guided) meaning, they would acquire the truth and be directed to it.
(but if they turn away) from truth to falsehood after proof had been presented to them,
(then they are only in opposition. So Allah will suffice you against them) meaning, Allah will aid the believers against them,
(And He is the Hearer, the Knower). Allah said,
(The Sibghah of Allah). Ad-Dahhak said that Ibn
Abbas commented, "The religion of Allah.'' This Tafsir was also reported of Mujahid, Abu Al-Aliyah,Ikrimah, Ibrahim, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak,Abdullah bin Kathir,Atiyah Al-Awfi, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, As-Suddi and other scholars.(Sorry for the messed up brackets, that happens when you copy and paste the text from that site, and I'm too lazy to take them all out manually. ))
-
Yes, there is
Al-Bukhari narrated that Abu Hurayrah said, "The People of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and translate it into Arabic for the Muslims. The Messenger of Allah said,
? ?
(Do not believe the People of the Book, nor reject what they say. Rather, say,We believe in Allah and in what was sent down to us.)'' Also, Muslim, Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i recorded that IbnAbbas said, "Mostly, the Messenger of Allah used to recite,(We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us) (2 136), and,
(We believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah)) (352) during the two (voluntary) Rak
at before Fajr.'' Abu Al-Aliyah, Ar-Rabiand Qatadah said, "Al-Asbat are the twelve sons of Jacob, and each one of them had an Ummah of people from his descendants. This is why they were called Al-Asbat.'' Al-Khalil bin Ahmad and others said, "Al-Asbat among the Children of Israel are just like the tribes among the Children of Ismail.'' This means that the Asbat are the various tribes of the Children of Israel, among whom Allah sent several Prophets. Moses said to the Children of Israel,where is the explanation as you claimed, this is not what Ibn Kathir has mentioned, I've gave you the explanation from Ibn Kathir >>>"the people asked the prophet about the other scriptures and he recited this verse 2136."
(Sorry for the messed up brackets, that happens when you copy and paste the text from that site, and I'm too lazy to take them all out manually. ))
It's ok.
-
You should know that Quran is not complete & you cannot understand it without Hadiths, you must learn all this from Ulama first then you will be considered Muslima. P
well, Try to leave a beautiful trace behind you.
-
where does Quran say that where does Quran say that, are you with a mental disease, not everything in Quran, this is what you must learn using your mind yourself, the other Books of Allah have been distorted, so Quran came to ban reading them. can I know why you want to read the other books from Allah?
hahaha and what this verse means { {
No, wrong ..... this is the verse
( )" ? 126 "
we believe in the prophets and we believe in their books, but we don't read them because they have been distorted and Quran came to ban reading them except the scientists of Quran because they have to defend about any misunderstood about Quran.
Not everything is in Quran? You are calling Allah a liar again? Allah says His book is complete and detailed so regarding His religion then yes everything IS in Quran. As for answering anything you ask, I didnt notice you ask me any questions though, I am STILL waiting for you to show me where in Quran it prohibits reading the previous books that Allah CONFIRMS are also from Him.
I see you are only here to go in circles and waste peoples time, I dont have time to waste with you anymore, there are verses in Quran warning me against wasting time with enemies of Allah such as yourself.
-
I see you are only here to go in circles and waste peoples time, I dont have time to waste with you anymore, there are verses in Quran warning me against wasting time with enemies of Allah such as yourself.
Indeed.
When thou seest men engaged in vain discourse about Our Signs, turn away from them unless they turn to a different theme. If Satan ever makes thee forget, then after recollection, sit not thou in the company of those who do wrong. 668
And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say "To us our deeds and to you yours; peace be to you we seek not the ignorant." 2855
-
Not everything is in Quran? You are calling Allah a liar again? Allah says His book is complete and detailed so regarding His religion then yes everything IS in Quran. As for answering anything you ask, I didnt notice you ask me any questions though, I am STILL waiting for you to show me where in Quran it prohibits reading the previous books that Allah CONFIRMS are also from Him.
well, I'll not be arrogant and I'll explain to you where Quran is completed and where it is detailed.
Quran is completed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>in verses.
Quran is detailed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in provisions.
I don't need to show you, because my justification will come from hadith with a verse in it , and as I know you "you're a rejecter of hadith".
I see you are only here to go in circles and waste peoples time, I dont have time to waste with you anymore, there are verses in Quran warning me against wasting time with enemies of Allah such as yourself.
Ah Now you have been serious , what about your "geste" of laughing all the day .??
the only person that waste his time here is me. there are verses in Quran translated as you want them (by your own desires).
-
well, I'll not be arrogant and I'll explain to you where Quran is completed and where it is detailed.
Quran is completed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>in verses.
Quran is detailed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in provisions.
I don't need to show you, because my justification will come from hadith with a verse in it , and as I know you "you're a rejecter of hadith".
Ah Now you have been serious , what about your "geste" of laughing all the day .??
the only person that waste his time here is me. there are verses in Quran translated as you want them (by your own desires).
I think I would rather be a rejecter of hadith than a rejecter of Quran anyday!
What is the problem with laughing? is that also prohibited?
-
peace I am pretty confused now.
where is the explanation as you claimed
I don't really understand this question. Some of the text I posted above (from the Tafsir) IS an explanation.
this is not what Ibn Kathir has mentioned,
OK, so you are saying the text I copied is not from Ibn Kathir? Who wrote it then?
I've gave you the explanation from Ibn Kathir >>>"the people asked the prophet about the other scriptures and he recited this verse 2136."
This does not answer my question. May I sum up the discussion for you so that we can figure out where the misunderstanding lies
~ My question was where the Qur'an bans the reading of other scriptures.
~ You posted 2136 in reply.
~ 2136 does not say that it is forbidden to read other scriptures.
~ If I understood you correctly, you said that the prohibition to read other scriptures is not directly in the verse but that I should read the Tafsir by Ibn Kathir.
~ I did and still couldn't find anything regarding banning the reading of other scriptures.
~ So my question still stands Where does the Qur'an say that it is forbidden?
Hope that clears it up, I would appreciate an answer.
-
I think I would rather be a rejecter of hadith than a rejecter of Quran anyday!
Ok; as you wish . I'm not going to reject both of them .
What is the problem with laughing? is that also prohibited?
Yes, there is a problem, when the people got to be serious , try to be serious as well .
-
peace I am pretty confused now.
why?
I don't really understand this question. Some of the text I posted above (from the Tafsir) IS an explanation.
and I said there is no explanation, it's just a translation >>> this verse have been explained from Ibn Kathir , and there are much things you could know by reading the tafsir.
OK, so you are saying the text I copied is not from Ibn Kathir? Who wrote it then?
It is from Ibn Kathir and the translator who translated the book of Ibn Kathir in english have deleted a lot of things.
This does not answer my question. May I sum up the discussion for you so that we can figure out where the misunderstanding lies
~ My question was where the Qur'an bans the reading of other scriptures.
~ You posted 2136 in reply.
~ 2136 does not say that it is forbidden to read other scriptures.
~ If I understood you correctly, you said that the prohibition to read other scriptures is not directly in the verse but that I should read the Tafsir by Ibn Kathir.
~ I did and still couldn't find anything regarding banning the reading of other scriptures.
~ So my question still stands Where does the Qur'an say that it is forbidden?
Hope that clears it up, I would appreciate an answer.Yeah, nice job from you to cite every step. Anyways I said that in Tafsir Ibn Kathir, when he explained the verse 136 from the sura 2"Al-Baqara", he said that people came to ask the prophet about reading the other books from Allah and he respnded to them by reciting this verse 1362, then they understood that they shouldn't read them and if someone asked them about things from these books , they have to say what the verse said.
-
You didn't but some guys(members) here did
because the Jews are always the bad example.I didn't understand this question.
Because of such a deep studies, they came to this conclusion.
I was thinking that I have already made thing clear for you but I was totally wrong assuming that, what you don't know is that the sunnah of the prophet has been written at the time of his existence. and the friends of the prophet have spread in the world teaching people the sunnah and telling them his sayings, people because they were not like the friends of the prophet who they have reserve sunnah in their heart , so at the time of Omar Bno Abdel Al-Aziz when he ordered to write the sunnah of the prophet from the heart into the lines. so go figure.
Give me references of deep study of sunnah muakida.
I?m quite aware that people recorded suhaf of the prophet?s way and their interpretation of it existed. the sad thing is, none of it is preserved to show the clear accuracy of ?current? so called authentic ahadith we have. Umar ibn abdel alaziz, what?s so great about him? He was after the prophet?s time so go figure yourself.
-
Give me references of deep study of sunnah muakida.
some references
1- Taj Al-Arousse Mada(Sanad).
2-Tadrib Arawi- Halal Addine Assayouti
3-Mokadimate Sahih Moslim - Sharh Annaouwi
4-Al-Masdar Assabek 1/14
5-Mokadimate Bno Assalah.
6-Nozhate Anatar Ibn Hajar Al-Askalani .......etc.I?m quite aware that people recorded suhaf of the prophet?s way and their interpretation of it existed. the sad thing is, none of it is preserved to show the clear accuracy of ?current? so called authentic ahadith we have.
the hadith has been written in the existence of the prophet in suhaf of the palms and the skin of animals just to remember the hadith, the real place that people reserved hadith is the heart, they were good in keeping things in their minds and in their hearts, so they didn't forget anything, everyone spread the hadith of Rassool in every place on earth they visited. so why do you think that this hadith can't be authentic? known that people from Morocco and the others countries in the north of africa let alone the Yaman and the countries in the middle east went to study hadith and Quran in schools just after the death of the Sahaba who they left their children to teach people and some Sahaba were still alive.
Umar ibn abdel alaziz, what?s so great about him? He was after the prophet?s time so go figure yourself.
Omar Bno Abdel Aziz is the fifth khalifa, his grandfather is Omar Bno Al-khatab, and he was at the time of the existence of the sons of Al-Hosain the son of Ali Asahabi Aljalil. And his 6 grandfather is Mu'Awiya Bno Abi soufiane who left before Islam and after Islam and the leader of Bani Umaya. he studied the Fiqh and the sunnah and the hadith and the language in Madina Al-Monawara from Saleh Bno Kissana who left in the existence of Sahaba.Omar Bno Abdel Aziiz was the first one who renovated the ligeslations of Islam and he took the provisions from Quran and sunnah and he even turned his country despite all the revolutions at that time into a country at the time of the Sahaba. go figure.
-
Taj al-Arus did a dictionary where can I access ?mada(sanad)? do you have a copy? And was it al-Zabidi that compiled it or was it taj?
2-Tadrib Arawi- Halal Addine Assayouti
Never heard of him
3-Mokadimate Sahih Moslim - Sharh Annaouwi
Muslim was a student of bukhari, what does the introduction say?
4-Al-Masdar Assabek 1/14
Dunno of him
5-Mokadimate Bno Assalah.
Dunno of him
6-Nozhate Anatar
Dunno of him
Ibn Hajar Al-Askalani
His father was a scholar of shafi.. shafi school of thought. So did he have evidence of how he studied hadiths? Hadiths study was well and truly there before his father?s time.
one of the most authentic book is probably malik?s muwatta (according to shafi). Scholars have found hadiths which are not sahih in there, weak hadiths even and this was the most original.. (in tact) so how do you expect later times to be even better?
Why do shias have different hadiths than sunnis? How do you know your sunni hadiths are more authentic?
Why isn?t there hadiths preserved on skins of animals? Why is it that people back then had apparently supersonic memory and today everyone?s memories are futile?
The first thing the sahaba wanted to teach was QURAN, go read about umar and abu bakr and then tell me about the ?spread of hadiths? amongst scholars. The companions were scared people would uphold things other than quran and they focused on the Quranic message.
Just because a person is a descendent of companion or anyone it doesn?t mean they are automatically enlightened. What?s so good about mawaiya? you think he left islam and before he left he spread a pure message? Muawiya isn?t a great example to go by.
So Omar ibn abdel aziz did something ?good? in his time. which would be pretty easy considering muawaiya made a big fool of himself. So he was amending muawiya?s mess. Doesn?t mean he was a saviour. Even if he was, that?s a few generations later. He wasn?t no ?rightly guided caliph? why didn?t they fix up the hadiths issue? You think a person in a lesser degree/position would do a better job than the rightly guided caliphs? How offensive.
and lastly one thought comes to me if hadith is so great and authentic why would they need to authenticate any of them, considering you think they shouldn't be doubted??
-
Indeed.
Ha, indeed/ Different Strokes for different folks