off topic from Re: The 5 stages of a Muslim turning Quran Aloner
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Dear Ayisha
Many thanks for your partial reply. I am assuming you are still trying to work out the concept of prayer, therefore could not answer. No problem take your time as this seems to be a major sticking point for all PM's. You are not alone on this one.
Dear Zulu, you assume wrongly sir. I pray as any other muslim prays because thats how I was taught to pray, the 'ritual' as all other muslims do. However, when I actually 'worship' Allah, when I beg His help and when I pour out my heart to Him, that is between me and Him and be sure I am on my knees with my face on the floor bowing to my God. This may be unacceptable to you but thats really not my problem, its yours.You must learn to practice what you preach. If you actually do read and understand the Quran as you so profusely profess, then what does this ayat mean to you regarding people who used to pray previously at the House
834 But what have they in their favour that God should not chastise them-seeing that they bar from the Inviolable House of Worship, although they are not its guardians? None but the God-conscious can be its guardians but of this most of these are unaware;
835 and their prayers before the Temple are nothing but whistling and clapping of hands. Taste then, this chastisement as an outcome of your persistent denial of the truth!
This to me means those in Saudi that bar the way of so many who want to visit and pray in the sacred mosque. Those that are hypocrites whose prayers are not from the heart, that do the 'rituals' but do not 'feel'. You say this is referring to the past and yes I agree, but it is also a message and a warning for the future as all Quran is for all times.
It is not part of Hajj to kiss the black stone as some of you have incorrectly stated. Anyway, do you also believe Tawaf is a form of shirk even though the Quran states
2125 AND LO! We made the Temple a goal to which people might repair again and again, and a sanctuary take then, the place whereon Abraham once stood as your place of prayer." And thus did We command Abraham and Ishmael "Purify My Temple for those who will walk around it, and those who will abide near it in meditation, and those who will bow down and prostrate themselves ."
2226 For, when We assigned unto Abraham the site of this Temple, ?Do not ascribe divinity to aught beside Me!? and ?Purify My Temple for those who will walk around it, and those who will stand before it , and those who will bow down and prostrate themselves .?
2227 Hence, proclaim thou unto all people the pilgrimage they will come unto thee on foot and on every fast mount, coming from every far-away point , -
2228 so that they might experience much that shall be of benefit to them, and that they might extol the name of God on the days appointed , over whatever heads of cattle He may have provided for them eat, then, thereof, and feed the unfortunate poor.-
2229 Thereafter let them bring to an end their state of self-denial, and let them fulfill the vows which they have made, and let them walk around the Most Ancient Temple.
So please tell me, how exactly would you yourself perform Hajj?
Peace
I never said that is a form of shirk, its in Quran to circle the kabaa. I said kissing the black stone is. and although you may say its not part of it, many many do it and they do it because they are told thats what the prophet did.
How would I perform hajj? I have not really thought about it as I have not ever thought I would have the funds to do it. I suppose I would have to do it how everyone there says is 'the right way' but in my heart I wouldnt believe the rituals were 'right', so not much point in thinking of doing it unless some things change really. Also the whole thing I would have to go through getting a 'paper' of proof I am muslim as I didnt get one before I left UK and the Saudi's dont allow people they dont think are right to enter mecca, which I also think is wrong!
Does anyone know how to stop these text boxes from jumping all over the place while replying? its getting REALLY annoying! >(
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Dear Zulu, you assume wrongly sir. I pray as any other muslim prays because thats how I was taught to pray, the 'ritual' as all other muslims do.
I suppose I would have to do it how everyone there says is 'the right way' but in my heart I wouldnt believe the rituals were 'right', so not much point in thinking of doing it unless some things change really. Also the whole thing I would have to go through getting a 'paper' of proof I am muslim as I didnt get one before I left UK and the Saudi's dont allow people they dont think are right to enter mecca, which I also think is wrong!
there is a contradiction in your post. you said for the first paragraph that you pray as all Muslims pray and that you did this ritual act every day as Muslims do, so I supposed that you pray five times a day with Watar and shafe3.
and then you said that Hajj you don't believe that, its ritual are not right and you know that all Muslims do the ritual in Hajj the same way that every Muslim will do. so why you practice the prayer ritual and you'll not practice the Hajj ritual(as all Muslims again).
by the way you don't believe in something, you don't do it / so in your case you're hypocrite . in hadith there is how to pray but you're rejecting hadith , so why do you pray like us ?. -
there is a contradiction in your post. you said for the first paragraph that you pray as all Muslims pray and that you did this ritual act every day as Muslims do, so I supposed that you pray five times a day with Watar and shafe3.
and then you said that Hajj you don't believe that, its ritual are not right and you know that all Muslims do the ritual in Hajj the same way that every Muslim will do. so why you practice the prayer ritual and you'll not practice the Hajj ritual(as all Muslims again).
by the way you don't believe in something, you don't do it / so in your case you're hypocrite . in hadith there is how to pray but you're rejecting hadith , so why do you pray like us ?.there is no contradiction in my post if you can read it properly. I pray as I was taught, although now i do omit the references to Muhammed mostly in my 'ritual' prayer. I have not been taught how to do hajj therefore I wouldnt do it as taught.
Not all muslims pray the same exactly either, it depends on how they were taught. My husband doenst do it exactly like me and vise versa. I said regarding hajj that I dont think running around the hills is right, I did not say walking round the kabba is not right, I did say kissing the black stone is not right.
Please try to understand my posts before you look for holes in them -
Please try to understand my posts before you look for holes in them
Your post is so clear, you don't believe in the ritual of Muslims in praying, but you pray like them because you taught that >>> is this sounds good for you ? or you're in a confusion (I don't know why they pray 4 rak'aht in the noon prayer, but I will do because they do = that's an act of Parrot).
ah by the way salat is one thing, God named salat because it's a connexion between God and his slaves and between the slaves theirseleves, so it must be common the same you do it the same way others do it.
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Your post is so clear, you don't believe in the ritual of Muslims in praying, but you pray like them because you taught that >>> is this sounds good for you ? or you're in a confusion (I don't know why they pray 4 rak'aht in the noon prayer, but I will do because they do = that's an act of Parrot).
ah by the way salat is one thing, God named salat because it's a connexion between God and his slaves and between the slaves theirseleves, so it must be common the same you do it the same way others do it.
an act of parrot you mean?
read again what I said regarding worship and the difference I stated between ritual prayer and worship.
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Dear Ayisha
Many thanks for your reply.
Having read your post regarding the way you pray and the way you will most probably do Hajj when the time comes, you really are no different to the people (traditionalists) you choose not to associate with. Am I right to assume that the only change you have made in prayer is that you do not mention Prophet PBUH's name whilst you are seated, rather you recite different portions of the Quran. Ok. Cool. No problem, but you do Qiyaam, Rukoo, and Sujood in a ritualistic manner i.e. units/rakats.
And with Hajj, you will most probably do it the same way as the masses do without the kissing of the black stone and you will try not to walk between Safa and Marwa. Ok. Cool. But you will once again utilise info and practices bar a few, from what the masses (traditionalists) currently do at Hajj.
Sister, despite what you say, you have more in common with the masses than you think!
Peace
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Dear Ayisha
Many thanks for your reply.
Having read your post regarding the way you pray and the way you will most probably do Hajj when the time comes, you really are no different to the people (traditionalists) you choose not to associate with. Am I right to assume that the only change you have made in prayer is that you do not mention Prophet PBUH's name whilst you are seated, rather you recite different portions of the Quran. Ok. Cool. No problem, but you do Qiyaam, Rukoo, and Sujood in a ritualistic manner i.e. units/rakats.
And with Hajj, you will most probably do it the same way as the masses do without the kissing of the black stone and you will try not to walk between Safa and Marwa. Ok. Cool. But you will once again utilise info and practices bar a few, from what the masses (traditionalists) currently do at Hajj.
Sister, despite what you say, you have more in common with the masses than you think!
Peace
dear zulu, I dont think I have ever claimed to have nothing in common anyway have I? ???
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an act of parrot you mean?
read again what I said regarding worship and the difference I stated between ritual prayer and worship.
No, what you said is an act of Parrot, because Parrot immitates the person speech and he don't know why, the same as you do, you taught how to pray but you don't know why you pray this way.
for the common salat in Muslims community is to keep them together in a good manner like a " ", so it's not an act of Parrot because we know why .
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No, what you said is an act of Parrot, because Parrot immitates the person speech and he don't know why, the same as you do, you taught how to pray but you don't know why you pray this way.
for the common salat in Muslims community is to keep them together in a good manner like a " ", so it's not an act of Parrot because we know why .
assuming I dont know why they pray this way now?
you assume too much sir
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assuming I dont know why they pray this way now?
you assume too much sir
so you don't know, the question why you do things you don't know the reasons of doing them? Parrot's act.
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so you don't know, the question why you do things you don't know the reasons of doing them? Parrot's act.
I do know the reasons.
wasnt this what you said?
"so it must be common the same you do it the same way others do it. "
that is parroting also but you are saying if you know the reasons of doing it its not parroting. The reason you pray as you do is because you have been told thats how the prophet prayed, thats parroting. -
I do know the reasons.
wasnt this what you said?
"so it must be common the same you do it the same way others do it. "
that is parroting also but you are saying if you know the reasons of doing it its not parroting. The reason you pray as you do is because you have been told thats how the prophet prayed, thats parroting.NO, wrong perception from you, every Muslim know why we pray like this was, but it'll always be a mustery for you , so keep living in your dark room Miss, tattoo.
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Ok quantify your statement, tell me why you think every muslims prays this way.
No, sorry / what's the point of even write a word for you, you don't deserve it .
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I do know the reasons.
wasnt this what you said?
"so it must be common the same you do it the same way others do it. "
that is parroting also but you are saying if you know the reasons of doing it its not parroting. The reason you pray as you do is because you have been told thats how the prophet prayed, thats parroting.and now you don't even believe in our prophet's way of praying?
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No, sorry / what's the point of even write a word for you, you don't deserve it .
when asked by another poster why you were here you claimed it was to answer questions, I asked a question. or is this going to go like the other forum where you 'answered a million questions' but never actually answered ANY?
oh and as for the Miss Tatoo comment, grow up )
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and now you don't even believe in our prophet's way of praying?
which prophet? Quran says that Abraham prayed in an acceptable way should I follow him? Muhammed followed him too.
Realistically you have no idea how any prophets prayed unless its in Quran.