Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. General Issues / Questions
  4. Taking off the Hijab

Taking off the Hijab

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
635 Posts 51 Posters 82.0k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • L Offline
    L Offline
    Leyna
    wrote on last edited by
    #297

    Sexual Harassment in Egypt

    Confronting a Pressing Social Problem

    According to a study, 98 percent of the foreign women and 83 percent of the Egyptian women have at some point been subject to sexual harassment in Egypt. Often the blame is placed squarely on the shoulders of the victims. Mohammed Ali Atassi reports

    Sexual harassment of women in Egypt is one of many social problems that politicians and the media have tended to treat as an instance of individual, abnormal behaviour. Because they treat it as an isolated aberration from proper social norms ? falling outside the path, principles and traditions of a sanctioned way of life ? Egyptian society as a whole does not need to confront it.

    It took the courage of a few Egyptian women who exposed their own suffering to reveal the treatment many women routinely experience on the streets of Cairo. Simultaneously, a few civil society organizations, aided by alternative media outlets (blogs foremost among them), launched awareness campaigns aimed at transforming both the understanding and method of dealing with the issue, so that Egyptians would cease to view future incidents as isolated acts of perversion, and instead see them as components of a pressing social problem.

    Educational and judicial measures

    As such, perceptions of sexual harassment have changed to now frame it as an important issue ? one that demands political, educational and judicial measures, though many of these have yet to be implemented.

    The problem of sexual harassment in Egypt comes to sharp focus in the case of the young film director Nouha Rushdi Saleh, who won a legal case against a truck driver who harassed her in a Cairo street. The court handed down a three-year jail sentence to the perpetrator ? and the case blew the cover off the issue in Egypt, where official silence has reigned for years.

    Most tourist guidebooks on Egypt, particularly those published abroad, warn foreign women regarding sexual harassment in the street and offer advice on how they should act and react. This could easily suggest that this phenomenon is on the rise. The aggression is hardly confined to foreign women; its victims include Egyptian women from all social and religious classes, veiled and unveiled.

    Still, most public authorities and influential social forces ignored the issue until the outbreak of the 2006 riots. During the downtown celebrations of the holiday of Eid al-Fitr, a crowd of hundreds of sexually frenzied young men participated in violent attacks on dozens of women, surrounding them in the streets, groping and even trying to undress them. As police stood by and watched the scene ambivalently, no one, not mothers nor veiled women, were safe from the mob.

    Implicit assumptions

    Supported by the state media, mainly newspapers, some political figures tried to minimize the impact of the incident by accusing the opposition of exploiting the social and political dimensions of the riot for their own benefit. But if the state authority was ready for a cover-up, the Egyptian blogosphere was ready for a fight. Bloggers published testimonies and played video clips of the scenes in Talat Harb square and the surrounding streets where women were assaulted.

    And while Egyptian authorities took action and installed security cameras in the center of the city ? the site of the 2006 riot ? to alleviate the phenomenon, the effort did nothing to prevent similar attacks from being perpetrated in other parts of the city. Incidents spread and in fact intensified in other areas, including Al Haram Street and Al Mohandesseen district, where many girls were assaulted on Eid al-Fitr. This time, however, police successfully arrested many of the attackers.

    Unfortunately, many dominant beliefs still place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the victims of sexual harassment. Society makes an implicit assumption that women dress provocatively, or otherwise behave suspiciously to excite men into violently attacking them ? or blame women simply because they are unveiled or don't conform to conservative Islamic dress codes.

    Awareness campaigns

    If there was one positive result of the 2006 attacks ? which claimed many veiled victims ? it opened the door for public debate about the phenomenon of sexual harassment in Egypt. Civil society organizations and women's groups touched on the fresh social wound, launching a legion of awareness campaigns while the issue was still on citizens' minds.

    These campaigns sought to educate women about their own rights and warn both men and women about the severity of these practices and the pressing need to face the problem as a society. Presenting it as a social issue that affects everyone, the campaigns linked the phenomenon of sexual harassment to youth unemployment and marginalization, as well as to the fact that a growing number of young people are marrying at an older age. They also cited the upsurge in sexual repression amidst an increasingly male chauvinist culture, in addition to the breakdown of the family and moral codes, as factors.

    The magazine Kalimatina ("Our Word&quot published the campaign "Respect Yourself," and the Egyptian Center for Women's Rights presented "Safe Streets for Everyone". In cooperation with various media outlets, both print and visual, websites and blogs, these campaigns worked to enlighten Egyptian youth on the danger of such practices and demand the development of laws that deter them. Campaigns also prepared police stations and trained officers for handling sexual harassment incidents.

    In the wake of this multi-faceted campaign, a sociological study named "Clouds in the Sky of Egypt Sexual Harassment ? From Verbal Advances to Rape" examined the situation. The study took a sample of 2,500 Egyptian women and 2,020 other individuals (equally divided between men and women), as well as a survey of 109 foreign women. The results were shocking 98 percent of the foreign women and 83 percent of the Egyptian women had been subject to sexual harassment ? and nearly two-thirds of the men confessed to committing sexual harassment against women.

    Counter-campaigns

    On the other hand, conservative political and religious groups attempted to exploit the worsened incidents of sexual harassment to serve their own special interests. In a manner clearly demeaning to women, these factions attacked women's dignity by pegging the blame for the assaults on the victims. The counter-campaigns even went so far as to collude with those who committed the crimes in an obvious attempt to justify their deeds. Rather than defending the victims or protecting women's rights, these campaigns took the opposite approach.

    Two striking examples of this came in the form of posters that the groups hung in some streets and published on many Islamic blogs and websites. The first contains two juxtaposed images. The picture on the right has a green hue and features a woman wearing a veil plastered with mosque-minaret pictures. At the bottom of the picture is a piece of candy carefully wrapped in green, and under it the statement that God will forgive the sins of veiled women. The image on the left, tinted in bright red, depicts an unveiled woman and a man. The bottom shows a red candy in torn paper, with a religious injunction beneath that warns women of moral failure.

    The second poster continues the theme of objectifying women, likening her to a piece of candy ready to be eaten, by portraying her as a lollipop that cannot be protected from flies (which means men in the language of these campaigns), save with the wrapper, which translates to the veil. Under the images of two lollipops, one wrapped and the second naked with flies hovering over it, a religious statement professes that an unveiled woman will not be able to protect herself ? for God, the creator, knows what is in her best interest, and thus ordered the veil.

    These messages reveal a disturbing mentality and ideology that view women as objects of pleasure and entertainment, who must cater to men's physical needs and fantasies for religion's sake. While enjoining women to cover themselves in public to prevent being sexually harassed by strangers, this belief system seems to limit women's choice when it comes to their own sexuality. These messages imply that the spread of sexual harassment is linked to the absence of the veil, and thus the unveiled woman holds the responsibility for the sexual harassment she encounters.

    Interference of justice

    The public discussion over sexual harassment could have been confined to the media, the campaigns and the counter campaigns were it not for the courage of the young Egyptian director, Noha Rushdi Saleh. A driver sexually assaulted her while she returned from the airport, even though she was accompanied by a friend.

    The assault took place in one of the streets close to her home in the Al Karba district when the driver began swerving his car towards her, extending his hand from the window and violently pulling her towards him. He touched her breasts until she fell on the ground, then he quickly drove away, looking back mockingly at her through his window.

    According to Saleh, this glance back was an important factor in her decision to turn to the court and demand her rights. Yelling and feeling great anger that cannot be expressed in words, she followed the driver and was able, thanks to the heavy traffic, to grab the front of his car, all the while shouting and calling for help. Saleh gave an account of her shock at other pedestrians' reaction

    "I couldn't believe that some were willing to help and assist the driver to run away in the car, while others told me, 'We will let him apologize to you.' I asked them why I would want an apology. Had he stepped over my feet? With my refusal, they asked, 'What do you need?' I told them I would report him to the police station. Another bystander said, 'I don't understand why you stand here in the midst of men.' There were people on their balconies looking down and watching me as if I were in a film. One woman was saying to me, 'Enough my daughter, forgive him,' but I refused and maintained my position."

    Noha's legal background empowered her to insist on her rights, and she succeeded in making a police report and taking the defendant to the criminal court. With the support of her father, she was determined to have the court session be public as a means of shaking the Egyptian populace and judicial system into confronting sexual harassment. Northern Cairo's criminal court, presided over by Judge Shawqi al-Shalqani, issued a judgment on October 21, 2008, which sentenced the defendant Sharif Jouma Jebril to three years in jail and a payment of 5,001 Egyptian pounds as a penalty.

    A nail in the coffin of sexual harassment

    Noha faced the news cameras and said that the judgment had restored her self-esteem. The judicial system had done her justice, paving the way for all Egypt's daughters to pursue the legal road to claim their rights and render the first nail into the coffin of sexual harassment.

    However, the judgment did not prevent Noha Rushdi Saleh from being the subject of a vicious campaign that impugned her credibility. Her critics accused her of distorting Egypt's reputation and of carrying Israeli citizenship, as her grandfather was among the Palestinian refugees who came to Egypt.

    But her courage has left a significant mark on Egyptian society, because she insisted on seeing her judicial proceeding to the end, as well as ultimately extracting a judgment in her favour from the Egyptian court. She will be remembered for helping to spearhead the long and difficult battle towards creating a civil society that holds the dignity and rights of women as inseparable from its overall goals and aspirations.

    ? Al Jadid 2010
    http//www.qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-478/_nr-1013/i.html

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Z Offline
      Z Offline
      zulu12
      wrote on last edited by
      #298

      Dear Leyna

      But the world does not revolve exclusively around Egypt. This seems to be the basis of your arguments. Just because it is happening in Egypt does not mean it is 'the be all and end all'.

      This is known as selective exposure theory.

      Peace

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • L Offline
        L Offline
        Leyna
        wrote on last edited by
        #299

        http//www.islamswomen.com/hijab/hijab_suppression_or_liberation.php

        "Jewels of Islam" ... ugh! ) I hate it when people compare women to jewels and pearls and diamonds. yuck

        But the world does not revolve exclusively around Egypt. This seems to be the basis of your arguments. Just because it is happening in Egypt does not mean it is 'the be all and end all'.

        Of course it doesn't, and I didn't say that. I was using the example of Egypt in order to make a point -- that hijab does not prevent harassment.

        In fact, harassment is more of a problem in societies where the majority of women are veiled, while it is much rarer in societies where this isn't the case. Harassment is a problem in almost all Arabic countries with a majority Muslim population. That should give us something to think about, no?

        This is my personal observation from living in and travelling to various countries, but I am certainly not the only one who noticed this.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • T Offline
          T Offline
          Thereformer1
          wrote on last edited by
          #300

          I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Women get harassed regardless of whether they are married or not, "interested in guys" or not, and regardless of looks and age.

          You don't want to understand.

          Why should I be kidding? Are you a woman? Do you live in Egypt? No. So what makes you jump to the immediate reaction that I must be wrong or lying? Strange.

          I'm not living in Egypt but I have friends in Egypt especially a girl there and she never said that, plus I watch media, and the statistics that you have stated is moot .so think again and fabricate another one.

          Studies have been conducted by the Egyptian Center for Women's rights
          http//ecwronline.org/index.php?option=com_weblinks&catid=52&Itemid=110

          hahahah, you took your statistics from this website, that's why " you must be embarrassed now" .

          I know you will now try to find fault with the study, claiming it didn't contain enough samples, or is not geographically diverse enough etc. pp. and you will try to make us believe that the problem does actually not exist, that it's only isolated incidents, being exaggerated by some feminists.

          oh woow, you're letting the cat out of the bag >> nice rotfl wondering why you are defending your "tale" by making excuses claiming that are not yours .

          But fact is the problem exists, and it is serious, no matter how much you try to deny it. nope

          Surprise there is no statistics in the website . police

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • S Offline
            S Offline
            Sirius
            wrote on last edited by
            #301

            Bear in mind that I have family members and extended family members that do wear hijab, jilbab, no hijab, no jilbab, skirts, trousers, are christian, jewish, muslim, are born into the deen, are reverts, have left the deen, cult followers, black, white and asian. So I do have a very round mix of different scenarios that I can relate to. So once again, please enlighten me.

            Do you have first hand experience? Didn't think so.

            As Leyna said, no one is claiming that wearing a scarf makes you more prone to harassment per se, it does make you more prone to harassment from Muslims though.

            The status that is given to covering the hair is that if you don't wear it then you play some part in anything that happens to you. The claim is that there is some massive advantage to a headscarf that men won't look your way and you'll have a free life. We are saying that this is NOT the case, from first hand experience. The status of the headscarf is NOT as it's made out to be as exemplified by the fact that wearing it doesn't seem to do the job it's supposed to. If as much pressure was put upon Muslim men to lower the gaze (as instructed by GOD) rather than telling women to cover (as per hadiths) and society placed a stigma upon perverted males instead of telling the women it's her job to cover due to the fact man can't control his desire, we wouldn't have such a problem.

            Dear Leyna

            But the world does not revolve exclusively around Egypt. This seems to be the basis of your arguments. Just because it is happening in Egypt does not mean it is 'the be all and end all'.

            This is known as selective exposure theory.

            Peace

            How about if I tell you it happens DAILY in London too?

            In any case, arguing this point is futile. You men can speak you the Earth but if you cannot bring the Quranic verse to substantiate your claim (ie. Direct command to Muslim women to cover the hair on their head) then it's a pointless argument. You can rationalise it, say that Muslim women are pearls that need to be protected, say that women who don't wear headcover aren't proper Muslimahs you can go on for hours if you wish, but if you can't bring the one verse that we still haven't got to in 300+ replies then it's fruitless. We can give you every argument under the sun, but if you go back to the original post, you will see that the purpose of the discussion isn't the benefits of disadvantages of headcover, it is not about the legitimacy of traditional Hijab and it's not about anything. It's simply about the concerns one might have when removing it when you've decided that it's not a command of God.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • T Offline
              T Offline
              Thereformer1
              wrote on last edited by
              #302

              According to a study,

              what study ? what is the name of this association or organization that made this study ? and how this study has been done (from geographical areas to women in the whole country or the whole world).

              98 percent of the foreign women

              what do you mean by 93 % of the foreign women ? care to explain ?

              and 83 percent of the Egyptian women have at some point been subject to sexual harassment in Egypt.

              aha , what about 90% that you have claimed before . emphisis or lie ? both of them mean the same thing.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • L Offline
                L Offline
                Leyna
                wrote on last edited by
                #303

                You don't want to understand.

                Well, why don't you explain it to me then? What's the use of saying something when it is not understood?

                Please explain to me what the marital status of a woman -- or her interest or non-interest in men -- has to do with her being harassed?

                I'm not living in Egypt but I have friends in Egypt especially a girl there and she never said that, plus I watch media, and the statistics that you have stated is moot .so think again and fabricate another one.

                Oh wow -- you know one girl in Egypt and she never told you about this phenomenon! That surely must mean that all other people and the statistics are lying.

                hahahah, you took your statistics from this website, that's why " you must be embarrassed now" .

                Surprise there is no statistics in the website . police

                I don't see what's there to be embarrassed about. And, yes, the study is accessible on that site and on many other places on the net. A quick google search should get you the results easily.

                oh woow, you're letting the cat out of the bag >> nice rotfl wondering why you are defending your "tale" by making excuses claiming that are not yours .

                Now you lost me completely. I am making excuses? Where? For what?

                I am speaking of my own experience and that of many, many women I know. And it also happens that the phenomenon has been covered quite well by the media, embassies etc., which surely would not happen if it didn't exist as you claim.

                Ah, but wait, the media and the people staging demonstrations in Cairo against sexual harassment are all making this up, right? Probably this is all a huge coup staged by the Zionists in cooperation with zealous Western-style femininsts! We should not believe them ... they are just trying to tarnish the image of Muslims and Arabs.
                &

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • T Offline
                  T Offline
                  Thereformer1
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #304

                  This is known as selective exposure theory.
                  Peace

                  I swear that Girls who they wear Hijab in my country are away from harassement and people respect them, and no one can talks to them just an necessity and they help them, in the other hand the Gilrs who they wear Jeans and fashions clothes, they got their parts of harrassement.

                  I think this photo will describe what I mean in general

                  http//up.arab-x.com/pic/nqL18397.jpg

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • S Offline
                    S Offline
                    Sirius
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #305

                    Sexual Harrassment in Egypt

                    Egypt's sexual harassment 'cancer'

                    http//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7514567.stm

                    Egypt voices Sexual harassment

                    Seven Egyptian women talk about their experience of sexual harassment on the streets of Cairo. It is an increasingly common problem, with a recent survey suggesting more than four out of five women have been sexually harassed, while nearly two-thirds of men admitted assaulting women.

                    http//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7593765.stm

                    Oh and by the way, for those interested, I found the blogger I was talking about earlier. The Egyptian Lady

                    http//www.monaeltahawy.com/blog/?p=63

                    When I was only 4 years-old, and still living in Cairo, a man exposed himself to me as I stood on a balcony at my family?s home, and gestured for me to come down.

                    At 15, I was groped as I was performing the rites of the Haj pilgrimage at Mecca, the holiest site for Muslims. Every part of my body was covered except for my face and hands. I?d never been groped before and burst into tears, but I was too ashamed to explain to my family what had happened.

                    During my 20s, when I had returned to Cairo and wore the hijab, a way of dressing which again covers everything but the face and the hands, I was groped so many times that whenever I passed a group of men I?d place my bag between me and them. Headphones helped block out the disgusting things men ? and even boys barely in their teens ? hissed at me.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • S Offline
                      S Offline
                      Sirius
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #306

                      http//up.arab-x.com/pic/nqL18397.jpg

                      I was waiting for this picture to surface ;D

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • L Offline
                        L Offline
                        Leyna
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #307

                        I am familiar with this ad, it's disgusting and insulting -- to both genders.

                        I was waiting for this picture to surface ;D

                        I am waiting for the metaphor of uncovered meat now. Or protected pearls and precious diamonds ... http//www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/frech/h055.gif

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • L Offline
                          L Offline
                          Leyna
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #308

                          The nightmare of sexual harassment in Egypt

                          by Dalia Ziada
                          24 November 2009 in Egypt, Sexual Harassment, Women

                          It is the patriarchal mentality that holds women accountable for the mistakes of men.

                          Three years ago, a number of bloggers on their way back home after celebrating Eid el-Fitr in downtown Cairo, saw a group of men standing around Talaat Harb Street, harassing every woman passing by, including those wearing the full-veil, or niqab! The bloggers could not help but take photos of the shocking scene with their mobile phone cameras and published the incident online.

                          The shocking story was, then, picked up by different local and international media. Simultaneously, some women?s rights groups started calling for ending sexual harassment against women. Ordinary people, especially women, have been encouraged to speak more about their personal experiences with sexual harassment and are thinking of brilliant and creative ways to stop it.

                          Before this horrible incident in 2006, sexual harassment, either verbal or physical, was one of the biggest taboos in society and women did not dare to complain about it in public. Even the state-owned media kept telling illusionary statements about Egypt as ?the safest country in the world? in comparison to other countries in the West where rates of harassment and rape are very high.

                          However, in the closed female communities, girls schools for instance, women used to speak a lot about the harassment they suffer in public transportation, in the street and sometimes from their male relatives or friends of the family. Sometimes, the women shared ideas, secretly, with each other on how they could protect themselves against harassment. Some young women, especially university students, usually carry weapons, sprays, or small pins, in their handbags to use when necessary to stop the one harassment.

                          Sexual harassment in Egypt has two forms; verbal and physical. The verbal harassment is like when a boy tells a girl passing by that she is so beautiful or says a word that indicates that he has some sexual interest in her. This does not include direct interaction between the victim and the perpetrator. A girl is usually instructed to go away and never talk to the man harassing her. If she did, every one will look down at her as an impolite girl! Moreover, the boy will be encouraged to harass her more if she responds to him in any way.

                          ?Men are like dull dogs in the street. When you pass by them, they might bark at you,? said Karima, a middle-class, well-educated mother of five girls. ?If you ignored them, they will not bark again. But if you responded to them, they will bite you. This is what I am telling my girls to do to ignore the boys harassing them and go on their way.?

                          Physical harassment is absolutely every type of physical action toward a woman. This might include touching a woman?s body in a way that offends her; i.e. without her permission. This usually happens in the stuffed public transportation vehicles and sometimes in the subway and workplace. Unfortunately, women in Egypt did not have the courage to speak about this sort of harassment until after the famous incident of Noha Roushdy.

                          Noha is a young girl who was physically harassed by a truck driver. Noha did not follow the mother?s advice of ?ignoring the dog barking at her.? Instead, she stopped him and took him to police station. Everyone blamed her for this, including the people who witnessed the incident with their own eyes and who know well that she was a victim. However, they were blaming her because she is a woman and she should not be so dare to fight with a man in the street, even if this man harassed her.

                          However, Noha won in the end the perpetrator was sentenced to three years in prison! The brave Noha encouraged other, ?weaker? women to take a stance and made men think hundreds of times before they approach a woman to harass, either physically or verbally. For sure, they do not want to spend years in jail for a pleasure that leads to no real sexual satisfaction.

                          The problem of sexual harassment in Egypt has to do with the general mentality of the society. Today?s Egypt is infected with two main diseases religious extremism and patriarchy. Unfortunately, the only victim for both is the woman, who is always burdened with keeping the ?honor? of the family.

                          The religious nature of the Egyptian people, which once was one of their best characteristics, turned into a catastrophe when it grew ? due to different political and economic influences ? into religious extremism. The woman under this extremist society is always viewed as a sexual object, created only to please the man and satisfy his physical needs. Extremists always fail to view women as real human beings who are 100 percent equal to men.

                          At the same time, this trend of extremism puts people under physical and psychological depression and encourages men to think all the time that whenever they interact with a woman they will lose control over their physical desires. For them, the woman is a devil that should not mingle with men unless covered from head to toe; wears no perfume; and preferably never goes out of her home in order not to tempt men and spread vice in society!

                          ?Do not blame me, you should blame her. She encouraged me to harass her.? You will hear this sentence from most of the men practicing harassment. They usually justify their actions by saying that the woman they are harassing is not covered, or wearing hijab, or she wears makeup, etc. Blaming women for the mistakes of men.

                          For a man who embraces such foolish ideas and looks down at women as a sexual object who forces him to lose his strength in controlling his desires, sexual harassment of women is always viewed as a right, not a mistake.

                          BM

                          http//bikyamasr.com/?p=6020

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • L Offline
                            L Offline
                            Leyna
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #309

                            I swear that Girls who they wear Hijab in my country are away from harassement and people respect them, and no one can talks to them just an necessity and they help them, in the other hand the Gilrs who they wear Jeans and fashions clothes, they got their parts of harrassement.

                            Better don't swear on it. I have been harassed in Morocco, so have others -- wearing hijab.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • A Offline
                              A Offline
                              Andya_Primanda
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #310

                              I am familiar with this ad, it's disgusting and insulting -- to both genders.

                              I agree. I'm a man and I'm not a fly.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • L Offline
                                L Offline
                                Leyna
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #311

                                I'm a man and I'm not a fly.

                                handshake

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • B Offline
                                  B Offline
                                  BornAgain
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #312

                                  I agree. I'm a man and I'm not a fly.

                                  True that; but a man has to keep his fly close at all times, whether women are covered or not

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • T Offline
                                    T Offline
                                    Thereformer1
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #313

                                    Better don't swear on it. I have been harassed in Morocco, so have others -- wearing hijab.

                                    I'm living in Morocco, and I'm a guy, so stop trying to know everything>>> maybe you weren't wearing the real Hijab .

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Z Offline
                                      Z Offline
                                      zulu12
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #314

                                      Dear HNF

                                      You have 2 seperate ayats from the Quran but you still want more. Once again, read, digest and understand 3359 and 2431. If you cannot read or understand Arabic, then I'm sure the translation in whatever native language you speak will suffice.

                                      Do I have first hand experience of harassment? Of course I do.

                                      Like I said before, harassment is not the exclusive right of women. And yes, observing 'hijab' does reduce sexual harassment compared to non observance. Women have always been judged on their sexuality and beauty, just like men have been judged on their masculinity. Harassment occurs in every country of the world regardless of religion, but to state that observing 'hijab' does not minimize potential sexual harassment therefore do not observe it is a pure fallacy.

                                      Whether you observe 'hijab' or not is not my concern. Every female that observes 'hijab' in my family experiences less sexual harassment then if they were to go out without as in line with the Quranic ayats. And this has been proven time and time again. The 'hijab' for them is part of their identity and way of life. They are recognized as Muslims from afar. They are lawyers, doctors and CEO's in their respective rights and feel comfortable, happy and choose to observe 'hijab'. Not some oppressed illiterate downtrodden females forced to cover up by family or peers as you may wish to think.

                                      They command respect because of their intellect and not because of their sexuality!

                                      Not only are we born, educated and raised in the West, we have traveled and lived to more countries right across the board than your average person and we don't feel ashamed of who we are!

                                      Peace

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • S Offline
                                        S Offline
                                        Sirius
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #315

                                        maybe you weren't wearing the real Hijab .

                                        You know, I love how this guy does all the work for us. Argue enough and he's sure to expose his insolence. Thank you, yet again you have proved me right

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • S Offline
                                          S Offline
                                          Sirius
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #316

                                          Dear HNF

                                          You have 2 seperate ayats from the Quran but you still want more. Once again, read, digest and understand 3359 and 2431. If you cannot read or understand Arabic, then I'm sure the translation in whatever native language you speak will suffice.

                                          Do I have first hand experience of harassment? Of course I do.

                                          Like I said before, harassment is not the exclusive right of women. And yes, observing 'hijab' does reduce sexual harassment compared to non observance. Women have always been judged on their sexuality and beauty, just like men have been judged on their masculinity. Harassment occurs in every country of the world regardless of religion, but to state that observing 'hijab' does not minimize potential sexual harassment therefore do not observe it is a pure fallacy.

                                          Whether you observe 'hijab' or not is not my concern. Every female that observes 'hijab' in my family experiences less sexual harassment then if they were to go out without. And this has been proven time and time again with. The 'hijab' for them is part of their identity and way of life. They are recognized as Muslims from afar. They are lawyers, doctors and CEO's in their respective rights and feel comfortable, happy and choose to observe 'hijab'. Not some oppressed illiterate downtrodden females forced to cover up by family or peers as you may wish to think.

                                          They command respect because of their intellect and not because of their sexuality!

                                          Not only are we born, educated and raised in the West, we have traveled and lived to more countries right across the board than your average person and we don't feel ashamed of who we are!

                                          Peace

                                          Firstly, please don't tell me what I think or insinuate without any evidence.

                                          Secondly, I did not mean did you have experience with harassment. I mean do you have experience with harassment related to the female headscarf.

                                          Thirdly, please read my last reply again. I refuse to continue arguing this point from now. Clearly you have your perspective and I have my first hand experience. Now let's quit going around in circles. Pointless.

                                          Lastly, those two Ayaat do not tell me to cover my hair. Try again. In fact, I am not even looking for Ayaat, I am just looking for a simple word, hair.

                                          I am not ashamed of who I am. I am not a scarf on my head. I won't allow my person to be reduced to that.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users