Surah 75:27
-
I want just to make a difference between those verses that you have stated that means the "unlearned" and that one stated by Mazhar, the translation typically is right "those who were not given the book earlier but he should add the meaning of it which means the Arabs (the strain of Ismae'el), the infidels of them.
So what makes it different? What makes that same word mean unlettered, unlearned, ignorant in some verses and 'those who were not given the book earlier' in another verse and where does bani Ismael come into any of it? ???
I am not asking to argue, I am sincerely asking to KNOW and to understand, because that same word is used in those verses.
-
I want just to make a difference between those verses that you have stated that means the "unlearned" and that one stated by Mazhar, the translation typically is right "those who were not given the book earlier but he should add the meaning of it which means the Arabs (the strain of Ismae'el), the infidels of them.
are we looking at the same verse because you just asked HIM where he got that from and now you're saying he should put what he HAS put?
Now I am confused ???
-
So what makes it different? What makes that same word mean unlettered, unlearned, ignorant in some verses and 'those who were not given the book earlier' in another verse and where does bani Ismael come into any of it? ???
He used Bani Ismael because Typically they are The Arabs, the strain that never receive a book until the coming of the prophet peace be upon him Muhammed. you know that Ibrahim has two sons Is'hak the father of Jacob which is the father of the strain of Isreal who they receive a lot of prophets and books and the second one is Ismeal who is Typically the father of Arabs but his strain didn't receive any books and no prophets until the coming of the prophet .that's why the word here means "Those who were not given the book earlier adding The Arabs (the infidels of them)
-
are we looking at the same verse because you just asked HIM where he got that from and now you're saying he should put what he HAS put?
Yes, we're looking at the same verse, I asked him how he knows that from the verse and where he found it in the verse? no indication of it in the verse. typically the translation is right but adding that they are the Arabs(the infidels of them).
we know that because Arabs lived with the mother of Ismael and he grew up and married from Arabs, that's why we said Ismael peace be upon him were from Arabs. but the question is how he knows that from the verse ?
-
the same word is used to mean 'unlettered', 'unlearned', 'illiterate', 'ignorant' its the same word in those verses and yes a nation or group of people can be illiterate, unlearned, unlettered, ignorant. The word is used in the same way in 278, 320, 375, 7157, 7158, 622 where every single other translator has used 'unlettered, unlearned, illiterate, or ignorant' which all mean pretty much the same thing, you have replaced with 'those who were not given the book earlier'. Why did you choose that and not 'belonging to mother'?
It just seems you have chosen another meaning of that word and used it because no one else has yet and it changes the meaning.
Let us move slowly and step by step with the verses quoted by you, good effort. One admitted thing about Arabic by every rational and reasonable person on earth has been the fact that its words take birth from a Root and whatever be the manner and in whatever context they may be used, the basic perception infolded in the Root shall always remain there in dominant position. We will never find inconsistency and mutually contradictory statement in Grand Qur'aan. Let us first take 278
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.78c.gif
And among Bani Iesraa'eel are such commoners who do not know the Book, except wishful/hopeful hearsay/conjectural myths made known and popular in societyI can weep only on the intellect of those people who translate the word here as "unlettered, illiterate" despite the fact that the word itself has been defined and qualified by the next words by referring to "Al Kitab". The same is the case with us that our lot majority falls in the definition of the same word since they do not their "Alkitab-Qur'aan" except that which our clergy and bukharis and company threw before them.
And amongst them-the people referred hereinbefore are it is plural noun, in nominative case-subject--Who they are/what is their definition/what is their peculair trait--the information/Khabr given is the do not know-they do not have the knowledge of the Book---exception is that they have the knowledge-know how of , and what is other thing about them---it is stated that they resultantly are indulge in nothing except conjecturing, guessing, wishful thinking.
How could some one translate the word as illiterate, unlettered in the presence of complete explanatory note about them by Allah. Your opinion pl.
-
Let us move slowly and step by step with the verses quoted by you, good effort. One admitted thing about Arabic by every rational and reasonable person on earth has been the fact that its words take birth from a Root and whatever be the manner and in whatever context they may be used, the basic perception infolded in the Root shall always remain there in dominant position. We will never find inconsistency and mutually contradictory statement in Grand Qur'aan. Let us first take 278
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.78c.gif
And among Bani Iesraa'eel are such commoners who do not know the Book, except wishful/hopeful hearsay/conjectural myths made known and popular in society
I can weep only on the intellect of those people who translate the word here as "unlettered, illiterate" despite the fact that the word itself has been defined and qualified by the next words by referring to "Al Kitab". The same is the case with us that our lot majority falls in the definition of the same word since they do not their "Alkitab-Qur'aan" except that which our clergy and bukharis and company threw before them.
And amongst them-the people referred hereinbefore are it is plural noun, in nominative case-subject--Who they are/what is their definition/what is their peculair trait--the information/Khabr given is the do not know-they do not have the knowledge of the Book---exception is that they have the knowledge-know how of , and what is other thing about them---it is stated that they resultantly are indulge in nothing except conjecturing, guessing, wishful thinking.
How could some one translate the word as illiterate, unlettered in the presence of complete explanatory note about them by Allah. Your opinion pl.No, You're wrong the word here means unlettered, so stop confusing people
- And there are among them (Jews) unlettered people , who know not the Book, but they trust upon false desires and they but guess.
Among the Jews, there are unlettered people, who they don't know anything about the book because of their ignorance and because they are unlearned, they just took what they have been told from a false fallacies(according to some people of them who they gave them things from their desires) so these unlettered ones just guessing that this is right.
stop confusing people .
-
I also weep if you are truly an Arab and not an imposter. Do you know what "unlettered" means? People who cannot read and write, illiterate, uneducated etc.
Tomorrow Jews attain 100% literacy rate and our "arab scholar" will provide them a clue to say, Allab forbids, Qur'aan gave a wrong information, look all of us are lettered people. But they will never take this plea since they know what it means here, because they are not under the influence of our bukharis and scholars.
Qur'aan is not saying that amongst them are people who cannot read and write. And I have not seen anywhere that an ARAB uses the word Ummi to suggest to anybody that he does not know reading and writing. Bring some quote from somewhere. And consult some dictionaries to know its original and true meanings.
-
Let us move slowly and step by step with the verses quoted by you, good effort. One admitted thing about Arabic by every rational and reasonable person on earth has been the fact that its words take birth from a Root and whatever be the manner and in whatever context they may be used, the basic perception infolded in the Root shall always remain there in dominant position. We will never find inconsistency and mutually contradictory statement in Grand Qur'aan. Let us first take 278
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.78c.gif
And among Bani Iesraa'eel are such commoners who do not know the Book, except wishful/hopeful hearsay/conjectural myths made known and popular in societyI can weep only on the intellect of those people who translate the word here as "unlettered, illiterate" despite the fact that the word itself has been defined and qualified by the next words by referring to "Al Kitab". The same is the case with us that our lot majority falls in the definition of the same word since they do not their "Alkitab-Qur'aan" except that which our clergy and bukharis and company threw before them.
And amongst them-the people referred hereinbefore are it is plural noun, in nominative case-subject--Who they are/what is their definition/what is their peculair trait--the information/Khabr given is the do not know-they do not have the knowledge of the Book---exception is that they have the knowledge-know how of , and what is other thing about them---it is stated that they resultantly are indulge in nothing except conjecturing, guessing, wishful thinking.
How could some one translate the word as illiterate, unlettered in the presence of complete explanatory note about them by Allah. Your opinion pl.
The Literal translation is And from them (are) illiterates/belonging to a nation they do not know The Book except (as) wishes/desires/lies and that they are except assuming/ supposing .
Ali translation is And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.
Illiterate here you have translated as 'And among Bani Iesraa'eel are such commoners', The next word al Kitab is saying they knew not the book. = they were illiterate, uneducated and didnt know the book.
-
I also weep if you are truly an Arab and not an imposter. Do you know what "unlettered" means? People who cannot read and write, illiterate, uneducated etc.
Tomorrow Jews attain 100% literacy rate and our "arab scholar" will provide them a clue to say, Allab forbids, Qur'aan gave a wrong information, look all of us are lettered people. But they will never take this plea since they know what it means here, because they are not under the influence of our bukharis and scholars.
Qur'aan is not saying that amongst them are people who cannot read and write. And I have not seen anywhere that an ARAB uses the word Ummi to suggest to anybody that he does not know reading and writing. Bring some quote from somewhere. And consult some dictionaries to know its original and true meanings.Just stop insulting me and ask your question and I'll answer you .
we use the word "" in a lot of context , like we say it for the people who they are ignorance, who they don't know their benefits. we say it to the people who they don't know use materiels or tools. we say it to describe the people who they don't read nor write. we say it to describe the people who they took what they have been told and taught.we say it a lot of things related to people in different situation but it is always under the context that "they don't know something" .
so by definition the translator translated it into "unlettered" and it is Typically right, those Jews the wise of them interpreted and distorted their books by their own desires, and they convinced their nation of jews that this is the right path, so the people that followed them are unletterd because they don't know about what's happened to their books from distortion to changing, they just followed what they have been told and that have got sure just by guessing without searching for the truth .
-
I also weep if you are truly an Arab and not an imposter. Do you know what "unlettered" means? People who cannot read and write, illiterate, uneducated etc.
Tomorrow Jews attain 100% literacy rate and our "arab scholar" will provide them a clue to say, Allab forbids, Qur'aan gave a wrong information, look all of us are lettered people. But they will never take this plea since they know what it means here, because they are not under the influence of our bukharis and scholars.
Qur'aan is not saying that amongst them are people who cannot read and write. And I have not seen anywhere that an ARAB uses the word Ummi to suggest to anybody that he does not know reading and writing. Bring some quote from somewhere. And consult some dictionaries to know its original and true meanings.
ummi belonging to mother, unlettered, Arab, who have no revealed scripture of their own;
ummiy n.m. 278, 320, 375, 7157, 7158, 622 http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htmUnlettered = ummi, Elias Modern Dictionary English-Arabic
ummiyoona - unlettered ones http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=78 -
Do you know what "unlettered" means? People who cannot read and write, illiterate, uneducated etc.
Qur'aan is not saying that amongst them are people who cannot read and write. And I have not seen anywhere that an ARAB uses the word Ummi to suggest to anybody that he does not know reading and writing. Bring some quote from somewhere. And consult some dictionaries to know its original and true meanings.
Quran IS saying that amongst them are people who cannot read or write, some are ignorant, illiterate and uneducated, that is exactly what its saying.
-
The Literal translation is And from them (are) illiterates/belonging to a nation they do not know The Book except (as) wishes/desires/lies and that they are except assuming/ supposing .
Ali translation is And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.
Illiterate here you have translated as 'And among Bani Iesraa'eel are such commoners', The next word al Kitab is saying they knew not the book. = they were illiterate, uneducated and didnt know the book.
True Arabs hate using extra words, if the first word meant unlettered, illiterates the next sentence becomes superfluous and wastage of words, a think abhorred by Arabic language. The word is specific Al Kitab not book. Perhaps 90% of Muslim population does not have the knowledge of Al Kitab-Qur'aan except what they have orally heard from others, are they unlettered, illiterates?
-
True Arabs hate using extra words, if the first word meant unlettered, illiterates the next sentence becomes superfluous and wastage of words, a think abhorred by Arabic language. The word is specific Al Kitab not book. Perhaps 90% of Muslim population does not have the knowledge of Al Kitab-Qur'aan except what they have orally heard from others, are they unlettered, illiterates?
what do you mean by extra words ? and did you know Arabs ? . Let me remind you that the people who tranlated the meaning of Quran are not Arabs. We know that Quran God sent it Arabic, so we must not translate it, we can give you the meaning of the verse but we can not translate the verse, it is forbidden.
and where did you get this statistics "90% of Muslim population does not have the knoweldge of Al Kitab"? Are you living one of them ?
-
True Arabs hate using extra words, if the first word meant unlettered, illiterates the next sentence becomes superfluous and wastage of words, a think abhorred by Arabic language. The word is specific Al Kitab not book. Perhaps 90% of Muslim population does not have the knowledge of Al Kitab-Qur'aan except what they have orally heard from others, are they unlettered, illiterates?
I dont quite understand what you mean by this. This is talking about 2 things, unlettered/illiterate AND they didnt know the book. One can be unlettered/illiterate and still know the Book, remember it wasnt in written form anyway, it was recited, one can recite but not read, as the prophet did.
Its not about the Arabs using extra words, these are Allah's words and He wasnt Arab, true or otherwise. The words are there in Arabic that mean unlettered/illiterate AND didnt know the book. Al Kitab IS 'The Book'.
One can also be 'lettered/literate' but NOT know the book. The verse is clear that there were those who were illiterate AND did NOT know the Book.
-
I dont quite understand what you mean by this. This is talking about 2 things, unlettered/illiterate AND they didnt know the book. One can be unlettered/illiterate and still know the Book, remember it wasnt in written form anyway, it was recited, one can recite but not read, as the prophet did.
They were given the Book in written down form.
-
They were given the Book in written down form.
But what was the point in that when they couldnt read, were illiterate? if they were given a book and they couldnt read it then there is no blame on them for anything, which is not the case in these verses. ???
how could they have been given the Book, this is Quran we are talking about as The Book, how could they have been given it, In written form, while it was still being revealed?
-
But what was the point in that when they couldnt read, were illiterate? if they were given a book and they couldnt read it then there is no blame on them for anything, which is not the case in these verses. ???
how could they have been given the Book, this is Quran we are talking about as The Book, how could they have been given it, In written form, while it was still being revealed?
Where are you dear roaming about. The verse is talking about the People of Book, Jews the posterity of Israel, and they were given Book in written form.
-
Where are you dear roaming about. The verse is talking about the People of Book, Jews the posterity of Israel, and they were given Book in written form.
but you said those who were not given the book earlier, thats how you have translated it. I am still talking about 278 here.
Your translation
And among Bani Iesraa'eel are such commoners who do not know the Book, except wishful/hopeful hearsay/conjectural myths made known and popular in society
and/as such that they do nothing except conjecturing/supposing/assumingSeems its YOU that are using extra unnecessary words here.
The verse from Ali
And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.Now you are saying they were given the book but were 'commoners' who just ignored it. They couldnt READ it, they were illitrate.
The Ali translation also was 'know' not, it is not tranlsated as 'knew' not which would imply 'past' as in a previous book, this is talking about THIS book, Quran as you also said earlier.
I think I need to lie down.
-
but you said those who were not given the book earlier, thats how you have translated it. I am still talking about 278 here.
Your translation
And among Bani Iesraa'eel are such commoners who do not know the Book, except wishful/hopeful hearsay/conjectural myths made known and popular in society
and/as such that they do nothing except conjecturing/supposing/assumingYou are mixing up the things 278 and 320 and 7157. 278 is only talking about Bani Israel. 320 talks about two groups, the People of the Messenger and those who were given earlier the Book, Bani Israel.