My journey to a free mind
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I've found something strange in this forum that only the converted people are the persons who rejected hadiths and claimed that it is full of corruption .
ok let me remind you that hadiths divided to "Sahih" , "Hassan", "Ada'ef" . I'm challenging you about hadiths put a hadith Sahih or Hassan and let me see where this corruption is ?
what a joke .
When you read the Quran, Allah states that it is a guide for mankind to attain salvation and there are many verses that state this ie; 1689 - And We have sent down to you the Book explaining all things, a guide, a mercy and glad tidings for those who submit. 752 - We have given them a Book that is fully detailed with knowledge, guidance and mercy for people who believe, therefore we do not need to refer to anything else, we need to study the Quran and apply it to our everyday lives, simple. If you really want me to send a list on contradictory hadiths then I will. Some samll examples are as follows
(1) How many times to wash in Wudu (Ablution), once, twice, three times ....??
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 159
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts only once.
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 160
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zaid
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts twice.
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 196
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zaid
Once Allah's Apostle came to us and we brought out water for him in a brass pot. He performed ablution thus He washed his face thrice, and his forearms to the elbows twice, then passed his wet hands lightly over the head from front to rear and brought them to front again and washed his feet (up to the ankles).
(2-a) DO NOT CROSS YOUR LEG;
Gaber Ibn Abdullah said, " The messenger of God prohibited a man from crossing one leg over the other while lying down on his back " Moslem
(2) CROSS YOUR LEG;
Ebada Ibn Tameem said , his father said that he saw the messenger of God lying down on his back in the mosque while crossing his legs." Moslem
(3) DO NOT DRINK STANDING UP;
Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said, "Do not drink while standing up, if someone forgot and did it, he should vomit what he drank."
Sahih Moslem
(4) DRINK STANDING UP;
Ibn Abbas said, "The messenger of God drank from the water of Zamzam while standing up...." Sahih Moslem.
(5) URINATE IN A STANDING POSITION
"The Prophet urinated in a standing position" Bukhary
(6) DO NOT URINATE IN A STANDING POSITION;
"The Prophet never urinated in a standing position." Hanbel. -
http//www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/boese/a015.gif
How did she react?
She was mortified, she was also a convert and had never really encountered such sexism and felt so upset due to the questioning of her, we tried to calm the situation but it was very difficult, needless to say the 2 in question left the organisation and the sister is now on our exec committee and doing a wonderful job. We have discussed and shared at length some of our beliefs and she feels her heart has been opened up to truth.
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Bismillaah,
Wadeyisfree, thank you for sharing your story here. Did your wife also came to the same conclusion as you, that the 'quran-alone'-path is the path for you? And as someone else asked, does the masjid you attend know about your approach to our deen?
I have noticed that quranists are from a very different backgrounds, and all have different ways to their understanding. But i do not agree that most reverts tend to follow the salafi manhaj. Maybe they are the ones that you see and hear most, but the reverts are just a diverse group. The salafis are though very active in their dawah, but that doesn't mean the majority is following them or are drawn to them.
Assalaamo alaykom!
I attend the Masjid and have discussed my beliefs with a few people but my usual approach is to always discuss topics and refer to Quran only, this has worked extremely well, I was recently invited to speak to a local school regarding Islam and I only ever quoted Quran, most of them were Muslims and they were amazed at my knowledge of Quran especially when I do not have a long beard or wear long robes or hats etc! I have not encountered anyone who has challenged my information as I only use Quran.
My wife still adheres to a number of hadiths and I take the same approach as any disucssion as noted above, she finds it difficult especially when her family are such staunch Sunnis. I never try to force anything on anyone, just explain and leave it at that, this is how Allah asks us to invite people, there is no compulsion and no force should be used.
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When you read the Quran, Allah states that it is a guide for mankind to attain salvation and there are many verses that state this ie; 1689 - And We have sent down to you the Book explaining all things, a guide, a mercy and glad tidings for those who submit. 752 - We have given them a Book that is fully detailed with knowledge, guidance and mercy for people who believe, therefore we do not need to refer to anything else, we need to study the Quran and apply it to our everyday lives, simple. If you really want me to send a list on contradictory hadiths then I will. Some samll examples are as follows
(1) How many times to wash in Wudu (Ablution), once, twice, three times ....??Three times, only the " " wiping head is once .
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 159
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts only once.First of all this hadith doesn' exist in Bukhari's book .
Second of all all the Bukhari's hadith are witha long Sanad , as I see you wrote only one "Ibn Abbass" .
Third of all The way of Hadith is not even good.
forth of all Your source of hadith absolutely from ennemies of Islam because I have the book of Bukhari and the book of Muslim as well let alone other books and no one them there is washing body parts only one. This is a lie.
fifth of all The hadith of Bukhari and Muslim and others have a specific way of writing it that they mentioned every parts alone . The hands alone, the nose and the mouth alone in hadith and the feet and the head and the ears alone, every part in the body is alone in a hadith .
For example and these are the hadith of Bukhari and Muslim
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Humraan (radhiAllaahu'anhu) narrates that 'Uthmaan called for water to make wudoo and washed his hands three times... then said I saw Rasoolullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)make wudoo just as I have made wudoo . .
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Abu Hurairah (radhiAllaahu'anhu) said Rasoolullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said When one of you awakes from sleep then let him not enter his hand into the bowl/vessel until he washes it three times as he does not know where his hand has spent the night. .
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And in the hadeeth of'Abdullaah ibn Zaid (radhiAllaahu'anhu) he was asked about the wudoo of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), so he called for a bowl of water and made wudoo from it as the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) made wudoo, and he poured out water from the bowl upon his hand and washed it three times. .
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Aus ibn Abi Aus reports from his grandfather (radhiAllaahu 'anhu) who said I saw Rasoolullah (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) make wudoo washing his hands three times. .
As you see , this is just the Hands and they are all with common number of washing which is Three
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 160
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zaid
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts twice.See above, this is another lie . The hadith never spoke like that way .
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 196
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zaid
Once Allah's Apostle came to us and we brought out water for him in a brass pot. He performed ablution thus He washed his face thrice, and his forearms to the elbows twice, then passed his wet hands lightly over the head from front to rear and brought them to front again and washed his feet (up to the ankles).Where did you find this hadith, are you misleading people ? or are you lying ? this is the exact hadith and there is nothing like what you stated
This hadith is for nose and mouth and it is three times .
- 'Abdullaah ibn Zaid al-Ansaaree said that it was said to him Perform for us the wudoo of Rasoolullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), so he called for a pot of water..until he said So he washed his mouth and nose with a single handful and did that three times. .
for the forearms to the elbows is also three times .
Humraan ibn Abaan reports that 'Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu'anhu) called for water for wudoo and mentioned the Prophet's (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) way of making wudoo - and Humraan said Then he washed his right arm including the elbow three times, then the left in the same way. .
for the feet (up to the Ankles)
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In the hadeeth of al-Bukhaaree and Muslim from Humraan ibn Abaan that 'Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu'anhu) called for water for wudoo and then mentioned the wudoo of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) - then Humraan said Then he washed his right foot to the ankle three times and then his left foot to the ankle three times.
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Ibn 'Umar (radhiAllaahu 'anhumaa) said Rasoolullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) fell behind us and then came upon us during a journey, then we found him and it was time for 'Asr - so we began to make wudoo and wipe over our feet, so he (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) called out at the top of his voice Woe to the ankles from the Fire. (two or three times) .
Let's say that The ahadith that you have stated are correct, if you are clever enough you could know that the hadith is "" sequence , he washes the body parts one, then twice, then thrice, so the end of the matter is washing thrice.
(2-a) DO NOT CROSS YOUR LEG;
Gaber Ibn Abdullah said, " The messenger of God prohibited a man from crossing one leg over the other while lying down on his back " Moslem
(2) CROSS YOUR LEG;
Ebada Ibn Tameem said , his father said that he saw the messenger of God lying down on his back in the mosque while crossing his legs." MoslemDo not cross your leg if you are in the existence of people, cross your leg if you're alone . Look at the hadith both of them are contradicting not because they are really like that, but because someone wants from them to be contradicting.
The second hadith about crossing the leg is totally fake because even the narrater not existed and never heard of it .
(3) DO NOT DRINK STANDING UP;
Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said, "Do not drink while standing up, if someone forgot and did it, he should vomit what he drank."
Sahih Moslem
(4) DRINK STANDING UP;
Ibn Abbas said, "The messenger of God drank from the water of Zamzam while standing up...." Sahih Moslem.The first Hadith is right, the second hadith is right too. However I doubt you know the difference between both of them . First of all never the prophet drunk water standing up , never never .
Second of all can you complete the hadith ? the second one . why you didn't complete it because you copied it and pasted it without even look for the completion .
Third of all Drinking standing up is one case , in war or in fear from an enemy .
(5) URINATE IN A STANDING POSITION
"The Prophet urinated in a standing position" Bukhary
(6) DO NOT URINATE IN A STANDING POSITION;
"The Prophet never urinated in a standing position." Hanbel.Where is the Sanaad ? where is the narrators ? .
By the way the prophet never urinated in a standing position, and if he does, is because one of this reason War.
P.S you take your post from this guy in yahoo which is Quranist like you, you are a liar , you don't even know the hadith yet claiming that he is full of corruption, disgusting people.
http//answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080829084020AAiuuFT
By the way the guy there got his answer, FITNA .
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Three times, only the " " wiping head is once .
First of all this hadith doesn' exist in Bukhari's book .
Second of all all the Bukhari's hadith are witha long Sanad , as I see you wrote only one "Ibn Abbass" .
Third of all The way of Hadith is not even good.
forth of all Your source of hadith absolutely from ennemies of Islam because I have the book of Bukhari and the book of Muslim as well let alone other books and no one them there is washing body parts only one. This is a lie.
fifth of all The hadith of Bukhari and Muslim and others have a specific way of writing it that they mentioned every parts alone . The hands alone, the nose and the mouth alone in hadith and the feet and the head and the ears alone, every part in the body is alone in a hadith .
For example and these are the hadith of Bukhari and Muslim
-
Humraan (radhiAllaahu'anhu) narrates that 'Uthmaan called for water to make wudoo and washed his hands three times... then said I saw Rasoolullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)make wudoo just as I have made wudoo . .
-
Abu Hurairah (radhiAllaahu'anhu) said Rasoolullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said When one of you awakes from sleep then let him not enter his hand into the bowl/vessel until he washes it three times as he does not know where his hand has spent the night. .
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And in the hadeeth of'Abdullaah ibn Zaid (radhiAllaahu'anhu) he was asked about the wudoo of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), so he called for a bowl of water and made wudoo from it as the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) made wudoo, and he poured out water from the bowl upon his hand and washed it three times. .
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Aus ibn Abi Aus reports from his grandfather (radhiAllaahu 'anhu) who said I saw Rasoolullah (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) make wudoo washing his hands three times. .
As you see , this is just the Hands and they are all with common number of washing which is Three
See above, this is another lie . The hadith never spoke like that way .
Where did you find this hadith, are you misleading people ? or are you lying ? this is the exact hadith and there is nothing like what you stated
This hadith is for nose and mouth and it is three times .
- 'Abdullaah ibn Zaid al-Ansaaree said that it was said to him Perform for us the wudoo of Rasoolullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), so he called for a pot of water..until he said So he washed his mouth and nose with a single handful and did that three times. .
for the forearms to the elbows is also three times .
Humraan ibn Abaan reports that 'Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu'anhu) called for water for wudoo and mentioned the Prophet's (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) way of making wudoo - and Humraan said Then he washed his right arm including the elbow three times, then the left in the same way. .
for the feet (up to the Ankles)
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In the hadeeth of al-Bukhaaree and Muslim from Humraan ibn Abaan that 'Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu'anhu) called for water for wudoo and then mentioned the wudoo of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) - then Humraan said Then he washed his right foot to the ankle three times and then his left foot to the ankle three times.
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Ibn 'Umar (radhiAllaahu 'anhumaa) said Rasoolullah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) fell behind us and then came upon us during a journey, then we found him and it was time for 'Asr - so we began to make wudoo and wipe over our feet, so he (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) called out at the top of his voice Woe to the ankles from the Fire. (two or three times) .
Let's say that The ahadith that you have stated are correct, if you are clever enough you could know that the hadith is "" sequence , he washes the body parts one, then twice, then thrice, so the end of the matter is washing thrice.
Do not cross your leg if you are in the existence of people, cross your leg if you're alone . Look at the hadith both of them are contradicting not because they are really like that, but because someone wants from them to be contradicting.
The second hadith about crossing the leg is totally fake because even the narrater not existed and never heard of it .
The first Hadith is right, the second hadith is right too. However I doubt you know the difference between both of them . First of all never the prophet drunk water standing up , never never .
Second of all can you complete the hadith ? the second one . why you didn't complete it because you copied it and pasted it without even look for the completion .
Third of all Drinking standing up is one case , in war or in fear from an enemy .
Where is the Sanaad ? where is the narrators ? .
By the way the prophet never urinated in a standing position, and if he does, is because one of this reason War.
P.S you take your post from this guy in yahoo which is Quranist like you, you are a liar , you don't even know the hadith yet claiming that he is full of corruption, disgusting people.
http//answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080829084020AAiuuFT
By the way the guy there got his answer, FITNA .
Narrated by Abi Saeed Khudri R.A that Prophet Said that no one shall
take anything from him EXCEPT QURAN.
(Muslim & Ibne Hanbal)Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad book, narrates a hadith in which Abdullah Ibn Omar said, "the
messenger of God one day came out to us as if he was going to depart us soon and said,
"When I depart you (die), hold to the book of God, prohibit what it prohibits and accept as
halal what it makes halal."Zayd Ibn Thabit (the Prophet's closest revelation writer) visited the Khalifa Mu'aawiya
(more than 30 years after the Prophet's death), and told him a story about the Prophet.
Mu'aawiya liked the story and ordered someone to write it down. But Zayd said, "The
messenger of God ordered us never to write anything of his Hadith." (Reported by Ibn
Hanbal)At the time of the farewell Pilgrimage, Last sermon, Prophet Muhammed (S) Said
"I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, the BOOK OF
GOD." (Not 6 books written by Persian Mullas in which they have insulted many times Allah & prophet too)
Muslim 15/19, nu 1218; Ibn Majah 25/84, Abu dawud 11/56. -
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Narrated by Abi Saeed Khudri R.A that Prophet Said that no one shall
take anything from him EXCEPT QURAN.
(Muslim & Ibne Hanbal)This is for the writers of the inspiration (Quran) at that time .
Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad book, narrates a hadith in which Abdullah Ibn Omar said, "the
messenger of God one day came out to us as if he was going to depart us soon and said,
"When I depart you (die), hold to the book of God, prohibit what it prohibits and accept as
halal what it makes halal."The hadith is not translated very well, prohibit what you see it prohibits and accept halal what you see it makes halal, and this hadith is encouraging of creating ligeslation according to what came in Quran and this thing called "Al-Keyasse".
Zayd Ibn Thabit (the Prophet's closest revelation writer) visited the Khalifa Mu'aawiya
(more than 30 years after the Prophet's death), and told him a story about the Prophet.
Mu'aawiya liked the story and ordered someone to write it down. But Zayd said, "The
messenger of God ordered us never to write anything of his Hadith." (Reported by Ibn
Hanbal)This is ridiculous, this is a story and it is not hadith with laws and ligeslations . and by the way there are a lot of stories about the prophet, why would Ibn Hanbal wrote this and he himself knew those stories and their validity ? reference please .
At the time of the farewell Pilgrimage, Last sermon, Prophet Muhammed (S) Said
"I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, the BOOK OF
GOD." (Not 6 books written by Persian Mullas in which they have insulted many times Allah & prophet too)
Muslim 15/19, nu 1218; Ibn Majah 25/84, Abu dawud 11/56.You didn't complete the hadith " the book of God and Sunnati " . Go figure
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This is for the writers of the inspiration (Quran) at that time .
And at the time prophet intended for his followers to follow NOTHING EXCEPT THE QURAN
The hadith is not translated very well, prohibit what you see it prohibits and accept halal what you see it makes halal, and this hadith is encouraging of creating ligeslation according to what came in Quran and this thing called "Al-Keyasse".
Liar it says we should hold on to the book of GOD (Quran) not bukhari, not muslim, not Hanbal, not Abu hurayra THE BOOK OF GOD (Quran) and that we (muslims, well not in your case) should prohibit what it (Quran)prohibits and accept as halal what it (Quran) makes halal
This is ridiculous, this is a story and it is not hadith with laws and ligeslations . and by the way there are a lot of stories about the prophet, why would Ibn Hanbal wrote this and he himself knew those stories and their validity ? reference please .
It does not matter if it's a story, it saying what the other hadiths I have shown you are saying that the prophet himself is telling his follwer not to write down any oof his hadiths except the Quran.
You didn't complete the hadith " the book of God and Sunnati " . Go figure
Becuase that's from another hadith which contradicts this one ...go figure ;D
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Three times, only the " " wiping head is once .
First of all this hadith doesn' exist in Bukhari's book .
Not only do you not know Quran but you dont even know the sahih hadith you claim to followVolume 1, Book 4, Number 159
Narrated Ibn 'AbbasThe Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts only once.
http//www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/004.sbt.htmlAre you a Jew?
Second of all all the Bukhari's hadith are witha long Sanad , as I see you wrote only one "Ibn Abbass" .
Third of all The way of Hadith is not even good.
forth of all Your source of hadith absolutely from ennemies of Islam because I have the book of Bukhari and the book of Muslim as well let alone other books and no one them there is washing body parts only one. This is a lie.
Its you that is a liar, I have the full set of Bukhari. This is in the section about Wudo and in my book is number 157, 158 says twice narrated by Abdullah bin Zaid, 159 says thrice.156 interestingly says not to wash ones genitals with DUNG i would have thought that was rather obvious to anyone trying to 'get clean'
The books are published in Arabic and English Translated by your beloved Dr Muhammad Muhsin Khan and published by Darussalam of Saudi Arabia.
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Not only do you not know Quran but you dont even know the sahih hadith you claim to follow
Aha really , ok I'm going to write hadith in arabic from the book .
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 159
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts only once.
http//www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/004.sbt.htmlThe hadith from the book of Bukhari and it is the same one
and it says one after one until he reach the thrice . not as they said in hadith that he did it only once .
Are you a Jew?
I'm the one who should ask this question. rotfl
Its you that is a liar, I have the full set of Bukhari. This is in the section about Wudo and in my book is number 157, 158 says twice narrated by Abdullah bin Zaid, 159 says thrice.
I'm not ineterested in your opinion about me, after all I said he is liar because the whole post post is not his post .
see above I've wrote the hadith in arabic and I've explained to you what it means by once, then twice, then the last result is thrice. Thrice is the end sequence .
156 interestingly says not to wash ones genitals with DUNG o i would have thought that was rather obvious to anyone trying to 'get clean'
I don't understand what do you mean by "I found it interesting "?
The books are published in Arabic and English Translated by your beloved Dr Muhammad Muhsin Khan and published by Darussalam of Saudi Arabia.
he is not my beloved but his translation I said is the best caomparing to others .
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Aha really , ok I'm going to write hadith in arabic from the book .
The hadith from the book of Bukhari and it is the same one
and it says one after one until he reach the thrice . not as they said in hadith that he did it only once .
so the three man stood there like 3 monkeys, one said once, the next said twice the third said thrice? GMAFBThese are 3 hadith, I can find more but I cant really be bothered as you are even blind to those. If you want to follow a bunch of made up conjecture then go ahead, its your soul you burn, not mine. And if you claim that Arabic says three times in there you are a liar and it assures me your beloved Khan MIS translated it if it did say 3. According to MY translator it says as I said it does, ONCE.
see above I've wrote the hadith in arabic and I've explained to you what it means by once, then twice, then the last result is thrice. Thrice is the end sequence .
ONCE means ONCE. There are 3 different hadith all saying different things. YOU have even twisted those to try to back up your claim that hadith are anything but FALSE.I don't understand what do you mean by "I found it interesting "?
I mean I found it interesting that people have to be told not to use SHIT to wash with when they are cleaning themselves to be ready for praying. Dont YOU find that interesting that these people obviously had NO BRAINS or COMMON SENSE if they thought SHIT would get them clean? Do YOU think you can wash with SHIT then go and pray? ???he is not my beloved but his translation I said is the best caomparing to others .
well he doesnt translate hadith well if he has said ONCE and you claim it says THRICE has he?