7:3 Is دُونِهِ refers to God or to مَا أُنزِلَ ?
-
I don't think ittiba3 is physically following because I dont know what the messenger physically did. It's rather a metaphorical following.
With 7/3, it cant be explained by 2/286 which says 'rabbana, anta maulana'. So when 7/3 talks about taking another waliy, it must be besides Allah.
However, HOW do we take Allah as waliy? By following 'maa unzila ilaina'.
-
My understanding is that "min du nihi" in the verse means "any other" so it clearly refers to God and not to "ma unzila"
wala tattibiyu = and do not follow
min dunihi awliya = any master other than Him (Allah)The best answer .
-
I don't think ittiba3 is physically following because I dont know what the messenger physically did. It's rather a metaphorical following
What he was asked to follow and what he did physically, he was asked to tell people
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.106.gif
You the Messenger physically follow in letter and spirit that which has been communicated/revealed to you.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/010.%20Yunus%20alahissalam/Temp%2001%2010.109.gif
And you the Messenger physically follow in letter and spirit that which has been communicated/revealed to you.http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/007.%20A12.gif
You the Messenger tell them "Indeed I physically follow in letter and spirit ONLY that which is communicated to me from my Sustainer Lord".
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.203c.gif
This Grand Qur'aan is from your Sustainer Lord as the "Visualizer"Chapter7
-
Sorry Mazhar I have looked at this for days now and I cannot agree on putting the word 'physical' in there.
It rules out any kind of 'spiritual' following, for want of a better word, or 'thought' following, and it implies 'physically' going to the toilet in the same physical manner the prophet did, like unbuttoning the top button before the bottom etc, as in "mimicking" exactly which is what the majority actually do because hadith tell them this is what he did. I think that side of 'brainwashing' may have crept into this translation without you realizing it. To me it just shouts out follow every physical act he did and not in the way I think you mean it to come across. You can 'follow' someone or something by many means, I follow Eastenders on UK TV for instance, I follow a conversation, but if I am physically following it means I am right behind someone following them down the street walking exactly step by step as they are so to speak.
-
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.092.gif
And this is the Book , We have sent it. This has been given permanence and perpetuation/the striking peculiarity of it is that it is prescribed/stay for ever.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.155.gif
Therefore you people physically follow the Grand Qur'aan in letter and spirit/without in between there being intervention of third party, and remain cautious avoiding unrestrained conduct so that you people may get mercy/salvation.Chapter5
-
The basic and fundamental purpose and objective of the Book is to let people know how they have to conduct their lives, and conducting life is something pure physical not abstract. Hadith mongers should not be allowed to haunt us to an extent that we even start seeing everything negatively. Qur'aan is to be followed to shape our physical conduct during 24 hours of the day, which is the basic unit of time/life. Qur'aan is not for mere philsophy gossips.
-
so if it means Do not follow any master other than Him (Allah), why do YOU ? ???
I don't follow any master . Weird question have you seen me worshipping a cow or a rat or an art stones ?
-
What he was asked to follow and what he did physically, he was asked to tell people
Sorry, I don't know what he did physically. What I follow him I follow from Quran and the Quran doesn't seem to give any particularities.
Ittiba' cannot be physical because
- Adam follows God's guidance (2/3
- It's possible to follow Iblees (7/1
- Good deeds followed by injury (2/263)
-
Sorry, I don't know what he did physically. What I follow him I follow from Quran and the Quran doesn't seem to give any particularities.
Ittiba' cannot be physical because
- Adam follows God's guidance (2/3
- It's possible to follow Iblees (7/1
- Good deeds followed by injury (2/263)
Strange. And what is guidance and how it is followed? Is it just keep gossoping or physically acting on what has been advised?
How the man is tested? ONLY BY ACTS, and acts have physical connotation.
-
You said we should follow the scholars and the majority. That IS following masters other than God.
So, if the meaning of master means scholars and the majority, so I must say that the translation is wrong .
because the word in Arabic doesn't mean that neither it is or was about that .
-
Strange. And what is guidance and how it is followed? Is it just keep gossoping or physically acting on what has been advised?
Guidance is information given from God to man which gives man the right code of conduct. Yes it can be physical but it can also be spiritual. Following the messenger however cannot be following his PHYSICAL pattern (THIS is the subject of the discussion, actually) because of 2 things
a. I am not phyiscally like him
b. I am not physically in his situationFor example, the instruction may be 'fight those who fight you' (2/190). I can do that for people living NOW but I cannot be with the Prophet to fight those people then. Hope that's clear now. Ittiba3 is not necessarily physical. If it is, you'll have to tell us how to physically follow iblees and sit on siratun mustaqeem.
How the man is tested? ONLY BY ACTS, and acts have physical connotation.
Irrelevant to the argument, sorry.
-
So, if the meaning of master means scholars and the majority, so I must say that the translation is wrong .
because the word in Arabic doesn't mean that neither it is or was about that .
The phrase in Arabi is 'min doonihi' (other than him). So the only mawla is Allah. Scholars and the majority are not Allah.
-
The phrase in Arabi is 'min doonihi' (other than him). So the only mawla is Allah. Scholars and the majority are not Allah.
Good to know that Scholars and the majority are not Allah . So again read the verse .
-
Exactly, and neither is the prophet and itis the prophet, scholars and majority who you claim to follow reformer.
Are you aware of what the verse said ? follow only God in what ? try to read the verse . If we take your logic, we will not follow the prophet as it is the one who received the message, is that what you said " the prophet gives us Quran, so we will take Quran and throw him away ? . this is what you want to say .
-
Are you aware of what the verse said ? follow only God in what ? try to read the verse . If we take your logic, we will not follow the prophet as it is the one who received the message, is that what you said " the prophet gives us Quran, so we will take Quran and throw him away ? . this is what you want to say .
Dont put words in my mouth.
The prophet IS NOT HERE now anyway. What the prophet was here to do he has done and that is give Quran, that was his ONLY DUTY to pass on the message. His job is DONE. We follow the messenger in following Quran, the message he was given to recite to us. he followed NOTHING else but Quran, NOTHING ELSE. Your 'divine' hadith have him following something else which he DID NOT. Your 'divine' hadith that you claim are from Allah and not in Quran, then you claim ae n Quran and not from Allah. They are nothing to do with ALLAH. You are instructed to follow ONLY ALLAH.
-
Are you aware of what the verse said ? follow only God in what ? try to read the verse . If we take your logic, we will not follow the prophet as it is the one who received the message, is that what you said " the prophet gives us Quran, so we will take Quran and throw him away ? . this is what you want to say .
how can you say that following the quran equates to throwing the prophet away? the entire quran is his own personal utterance isnt it? every verse being his "Qoul" or "Qoul-e-Rasool". So if we follow the Quran, its the same as following the prophet.
This reminds me of the verse in the bible (John 1030) where Jesus is quoted as saying " I and the father are ONE". This verse is used by many christians to mean that they are ONE in being while clearly the context tells us (verse 23 to 30) that they are one in purpose. So to follow the prophet is to follow God, whose word is given to us in the book.
-
The prophet IS NOT HERE now anyway. What the prophet was here to do he has done and that is give Quran, that was his ONLY DUTY to pass on the message. His job is DONE. We follow the messenger in following Quran, the message he was given to recite to us.
So here you agree that "min doonhi" is Qur'aan since like the Messenger we also don't find and see Allah whom we could follow. We follow the Book which demonstrates that we have accepted the word of Allah conveyed through the Messenger.