When were we dead as per 2:28?
-
228 How can you reject God when you were dead and He brought you to life? Then He makes you die, then He brings you to life, then to Him you return.
How can we be dead before living? Which comes first death or life?
-
Salam,
Your question is spot on. According to the Qur'an, we have existed before this life, therefore, we had died in that life and became alive in this
7172 And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.
-
228 How can you reject God when you were dead and He brought you to life? Then He makes you die, then He brings you to life, then to Him you return.
How can we be dead before living? Which comes first death or life?
Peace..
This topic is very interesting... But I can furnish you mere my understanding but within Quran..
I think this particular verse targeting only the rejectors and those who end up in hell ultimately ... It seems they are given life with the mercy of God twice... But even the two opportunities they got were in vain.. They never reform it seems..
Roughly saying like this.. My opinion.. A disbeliever got life somewhere in the past.. Suppose 1500 years back and he got another chance in 2000... But he failed in his both occasions...
Below verse is an ideal example for that.. Here these people are in hell for sure this time.. Coz it is after day of ressurection and judgment is executed.. But they never lost their previous habit.. They still ask a way out for a third chance... That won't happen...4011 They will say, "Our Lord, You made us lifeless twice and gave us life twice, and we have confessed our sins. So is there to an exit any way?"
In both 228 and 4011 they were rejectors... There is no hint that believers got two life and two death... But it seems one..
3758-59 "Is it then that we are not going to die, Except our first death, and that we shall not be punished?"
The above two verses is the conversation of people who are in Janna..
See the contrasting difference...Believers will only have one life and there is no second chance coz they already knew while they die what their destiny were...
So how merciful God is to disbelievers... They were given a second chance but they failed..Otherwise God never ask a question in 228 in a strange way.. "How can you reject God when you were dead and brought back to life... "
Believers will not grasp what this question is... But disbelievers should surely get what it is coz they have lived on this very earth before and died and the same soul is again placed inside another human body and they failed unfortunately.... Remember they themselves claim this in hell and not a word of God directly...
But they still would ask to send them back hoping that there is still the same earth do prevail... But unfortunately God destroyed earth and heavens and Janna was created ...3213 " And could you but see when the guilty shall hang down their heads before their Lord Our Lord! we have seen and we have heard, therefore send us back, we will do good; surely (now) we are certain."
Just note the above verse... Now they are very much certain and seen and heard.. Coz they are about to suffer in hell and it is ready for them... But when they died first time they saw their death and they were kept until they were given another chance.. They are different from believers.. Coz they knew something that believers not aware.. But they discarded...
Now they are in hell and still begging...That's my take...
But 7172 perhaps no connection with above two verses... Unless someone explain how and why... -
salam
i understand in the verse that The God is telling humanity (or perhaps just disbelievers depends how each reads the verse) how can we disbelieve when we didnt exist before then we were given life then we will not exist then we will be given life again and to The God we will return
i believe “death” here means not existing and we are invited to think logically ... that we were nothing and we were given life and we will again die and be given life again and return to The God ...
we are told we will return to The God so for me it clearly means all of us humans as we will all return to The God so the verse is directed at everyone and invites us to think logically
for me this verse has nothing to do with fate of either believers or disbelievers, as all of humanity will return to The God but the verse is rather an invitation to think logically and believemaybe im wrong, but that is my understanding
peace
-
Salam,
Since Qur'an addresses numerous times to the "Children of Israel", verse 2.28 should be understood in a way that appeals to Jewish tradition and thought.
In ancient Jewish thought, death is a metaphor of idolatry and exile of the people of Israel in connection to the destruction of the Temple (hence the expression "Masjid al-Haram" in Qur'an, haram meaning also destroyed and not only sacred).
In ancient Jewish thought, there was this pattern
First Temple (of Salomon) -> destruction of the First Temple and Exile, i.e. first death -> return from Exile and construction of the Second Temple, i.e. resurrection -> destruction of the Second Temple and Exile, i.e. second death, waiting for the Messiah and the new resurrection.
Surah 2, and in particular verse 2.28, is related to the foundation of the Jewish Arab kingdom of 620/621 J.C., which event was reinterpreted three hundred year later as the "Hijra" by the Islamic tradition.
The foundation of this Jewish Arab kingdom is to be deemed as the equivalent of the new resurrection. And in effect, when 20 years later, Umar took Jerusalem, one very early chronicle (Sebeos) credits him to have rebuilt the Temple on the current Temple Mount.
Umar was also called al-Faruq in the Islamic tradition, but the origin of this name has nothing to do with discerning truth from lie the word Faruq comes from Syriac Paroqa which means the Redeemer, i.e. the Messiah.The problem was that the Messenger of Qur'an was strongly opposed to the modalities of foundations of this kingdom, blaming the founders for their chaos strategy. This chaos strategy is called al-Fassad in Qur'an, and it has very little to do with a mere question of morals.
The chaos strategy is still in use today by some terrorist groups hoping to hasten the coming of the end of times, which is exactly what the ancient Jewish tradition called resurrection and coming of the Messiah.In the ancient Jewish tradition, the Messiah (the Redeemer) must come at the height of the tribulations of Israel. And if the Messiah doesn't come, it means that we are not quiet yet at the height of the tribulations, hence spreading chaos would surely help a bit the Messiah to come...
Tribulations is called "fitna" in the context of Qur'an.
There could be also some connections between al-Fassad and some Gnostic beliefs, as suggested by verse 2.30 but this would be too long to explain.
Verse 2.28 actually shifts the traditional pattern of the Jewish tradition in that way
Second Temple time, i.e. first life -> Fitna of the Second Temple destruction and Exile, i.e. first death, Kuntum 'Amwātāan -> Foundation of the Jewish Arab kingdom of 620 / 621, i.e., new life, Fa'aĥyākum -> Future Fitna and destruction of this kingdom because it spreads Fassad, i.e. new death, Thumma Yumītukum -> A new State based on ethical basis according to Qur'an message, i.e. new life, Thumma Yuĥyīkum, and return to God.
-
4011 They will say, "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this path?"
consider this one as well, perhaps hinting towards multiple lives and deaths = re-incarnation.
-
Peace,
4011 They will say, "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this path?"
consider this one as well, perhaps hinting towards multiple lives and deaths = re-incarnation.
If the prophet would fabricate something different against God, God threatened him to taste twice live and twice death.
1773 And they nearly diverted you from what We inspired to you so that you would fabricate something different against Us, and then they would have taken you as a friend!
1774 And if We had not made you stand firm, you were about to side with them a little bit.
1775 Then, We would have made you taste twice life / di'fa alhayati and twice death / di'fa alamamat. And then you would not find for yourself any victor against Us.Peace
-
Peace,
If the prophet would fabricate something different against God, God threatened him to taste twice live and twice death.
1773 And they nearly diverted you from what We inspired to you so that you would fabricate something different against Us, and then they would have taken you as a friend!
1774 And if We had not made you stand firm, you were about to side with them a little bit.
1775 Then, We would have made you taste twice life / di'fa alhayati and twice death / di'fa alamamat. And then you would not find for yourself any victor against Us.Peace
Exactly sister Houriya.... i don't know you believe in reincarnation but it seems it happens...
Why prophet was threatened is coz he would end up as a rejector / disbeliever by fabricating against God... Disbelievers will go through two lives and that also seems bizzare... Having a life and go through is not an easy task ... to have it second time is horrible.. but we can't ensure whether all who got second chance failed.. God knows -
Those who had rejected ,They had a 2nd chance / 2nd life, they failed twice. Do they go other lives to repent of their disbelief, God only knows.
4010 Those who had rejected will be told "The abhorrence of God towards you is greater than your abhorrence of yourselves, for you were invited to believe, but you chose to reject."
4011 They will say "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this state?"
-
Peace All.
Two oints first
1-Verse 228 is not addressing the Childeren of Israel, it is addressing those from 226 and 227-everyone-How can you disbelieve in God when you were dead and He gave you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life, then to Him you ultimately return?
كَيفَ تَكفُرونَ بِاللَّهِ وَكُنتُم أَموٰتًا فَأَحيٰكُم ثُمَّ يُميتُكُم ثُمَّ يُحييكُم ثُمَّ إِلَيهِ تُرجَعونَ2- It-Amwatan/dead- cannot mean we were nothing, if GOD chose the word "Amwatan"- Dead- it can only mean that we were alive before that
GOD has already chosen "we were nothing- before," at the beginning of our first life
"Awa Lam Yara Al Insan Anna Khalaknahu Min Kablu Wa Lam Yukun SHaiian"
"Does the human not realise that we created him before when he was NOTHING"- i.e first creation.The indication from Qoran is that this "human stage" is our second life.
As for believers and disbelievers, their life and death are not the same.
"Do you think the lives and deaths of these two types of people are the same?For example the believers at the end of their life as humans , their soul will be welcomed by the Angel of death and given the good news ,while awaiting the judgement somewhere confortable
The angels terminate their lives in a state of righteousness, saying, "Peace be upon you. Enter Paradise (now, awaiting) as a reward for your works."
الَّذينَ تَتَوَفّىٰهُمُ المَلٰئِكَةُ طَيِّبينَ يَقولونَ سَلٰمٌ عَلَيكُمُ ادخُلُوا الجَنَّةَ بِما كُنتُم تَعمَلونَ
. .
On the other hand, the soul of the disbelievers will be snatched from them and kept awaiting its judgement -Death is like sleep- with the continuous nightmare of this bad news
The angels put them to death in a state of wronging their souls. That is when they finally submit, and say, "We did not do anything wrong!" Yes indeed. God is fully aware of everything you have done.
الَّذينَ تَتَوَفّىٰهُمُ المَلٰئِكَةُ ظالِمى أَنفُسِهِم فَأَلقَوُا السَّلَمَ ما كُنّا نَعمَلُ مِن سوءٍ بَلىٰ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَليمٌ بِما كُنتُم تَعمَلونَ
The Hell will be shown to them day and night, and on the Day of Resurrection "Admit Pharaoh's people into the worst retribution."
النّارُ يُعرَضونَ عَلَيها غُدُوًّا وَعَشِيًّا وَيَومَ تَقومُ السّاعَةُ أَدخِلوا ءالَ فِرعَونَ أَشَدَّ العَذابِBasically , according to what happened in our first life, we are here out of mercy from the creator to either redeem ourselves back or put ourselves further away from GOD s kingdom
Should we just ignore the fact that you have transgressed the limits?
أَفَنَضرِبُ عَنكُمُ الذِّكرَ صَفحًا أَن كُنتُم قَومًا مُسرِفينَ
This is the reason ,our "original sin" from our past life has led us here.GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
7172
And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.7173
Nor can you say "It was our fathers who set up partners before and we were simply a progeny who came after them. Would You destroy us for what the innovators did?"7174
It is such that We explain the revelations, perhaps they will return / repent.4627
And We destroyed the towns around you and We had dispatched the signs, perhaps they would return / repent.26208
And We have not destroyed any town except after having warners.2194
So whoever does good works and he is a believer, then his efforts will not be rejected and We will record it for him.It was their last chance
2195
And it is forbidden for a town that We destroy, that they will not return!6158
Do they wait until the angels come to them, or your Lord comes, or certain signs come from your Lord? The Day certain signs come from your Lord, it will do no good for any soul to believe if it did not believe before, or it gained good through its belief. Say "Wait, for we are waiting." -
7172
And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.7173
Nor can you say "It was our fathers who set up partners before and we were simply a progeny who came after them. Would You destroy us for what the innovators did?"7174
It is such that We explain the revelations, perhaps they will return / repent.4627
And We destroyed the towns around you and We had dispatched the signs, perhaps they would return / repent.26208
And We have not destroyed any town except after having warners.2194
So whoever does good works and he is a believer, then his efforts will not be rejected and We will record it for him.It was their last chance
2195
And it is forbidden for a town that We destroy, that they will not return!6158
Do they wait until the angels come to them, or your Lord comes, or certain signs come from your Lord? The Day certain signs come from your Lord, it will do no good for any soul to believe if it did not believe before, or it gained good through its belief. Say "Wait, for we are waiting."Peace Houriya
So disbelievers will be given two chances on this earth?
When a baby is born it may be getting 2nd chance or second life?
If that is the case then after the second death when they are resurrected for the day of judgement that will be 3rd life?
Sorry I am not getting your point here.
-
Peace Houriya
So disbelievers will be given two chances on this earth?
When a baby is born it may be getting 2nd chance or second life?
If that is the case then after the second death when they are resurrected for the day of judgement that will be 3rd life?
Sorry I am not getting your point here.
Don't confuse brother...
After the second death of disbelievers, there is no more coming to this world... All will be resurrected...
Once resurrected and destined for hell it is not third life.. Hell is No life ...its suffering mere suffering a punishment and no freedom... No escape... But in real life they had freedom.. That's life... Two times life given and two times death fallen... After that only punishment...When a baby is born second time it is second chance to the same soul but it is life after all..
-
Look in to it i already mentioned it here with equation.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610350.msg419285#msg419285
-
Peace,
Knowing that this is our second life and that we have already transgressed during our first life, it shocked me, my flesh bristled, at the same time, I am not surprised. Human beings are unjust and ignorant.
Don't confuse brother...
After the second death of disbelievers, there is no more coming to this world... All will be resurrected...
Once resurrected and destined for hell it is not third life.. Hell is No life ...its suffering mere suffering a punishment and no freedom... No escape... But in real life they had freedom.. That's life... Two times life given and two times death fallen... After that only punishment...When a baby is born second time it is second chance to the same soul but it is life after all..
Peace
-
Salam all,
O people, serve your Lord who has created you and those before you that you may be righteous.
The One who has made the earth a resting place, and the sky a shelter, and He sent down from the sky water with which He brought out fruits as a gift to you. So do not set up any equals with God while you know.
And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.
And if you cannot do this; and you will not be able to do this; then beware the Fire whose fuel is people and rocks, it has been prepared for the rejecters.
And give good news to those who believe and do good works that they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath them. Every time they receive a provision of its fruit, they say “This is what we have been provisioned before,” and they are given its likeness. And there they will have pure mates, and in it they will abide.
God does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say “What does God intend with this example?” He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.
The ones who break the pledge to God after making its covenant, and they sever what God had ordered to be delivered, and they make corruption on the earth; these are the losers.
How can you reject God when you were lifeless and He brought you to life? Then He makes you lifeless, then He brings you to life, then to Him you will be returned....
O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I had bestowed upon you, and fulfill your pledge to Me that I may fulfill My pledge to you, and reverence Me alone.
And believe in what I have sent down, affirming what is with you, and do not be the first to disbelieve in it! And do not purchase with My revelations a cheap gain, and of Me you shall be aware.The ones being addressed in 228 is An-Nas which started in 221. They are people in general who are being exposed to Kitab that God sent down. The logic employed when addressing them is that if they have doubt, then why they don't take the challenge etc. These An-Nas is being contrasted with Bani Israel which are addressed starting 240. Bani Israel is given Kitab (see 4516), that is why the logic employed when addressing them is different, i.e. don't be the first to disbelieve, don't exchange for small gain, etc.
Now back to 228
How can you reject God when you were lifeless and He brought you to life ? Then He makes you lifeless , then He brings you to life , then to Him you will be returned .
First lifeless => completed/done (when we were nothing, we were lifeless)
First life => completed/done (our current life)
Second lifeless => not yet completed/to be done (we will die)
Second life => not yet completed/to be done (we will be brought to life)Wassalam,
Ade -
Don't confuse brother...
After the second death of disbelievers, there is no more coming to this world... All will be resurrected...
Once resurrected and destined for hell it is not third life.. Hell is No life ...its suffering mere suffering a punishment and no freedom... No escape... But in real life they had freedom.. That's life... Two times life given and two times death fallen... After that only punishment...When a baby is born second time it is second chance to the same soul but it is life after all..
Peace jkhan
The question is when is the second life and second death if the first death is as follows?
3758 "Are we then not going to die,"
3759 "Except for our first death, and we will not be punished?"4434 These people now are saying
4435 "There is nothing but our first death; and we will never be resurrected!"4456 They do not taste death therein except for the first death, and He has spared them the retribution of hell.
-
Now back to 228
How can you reject God when you were lifeless and He brought you to life ? Then He makes you lifeless , then He brings you to life , then to Him you will be returned .
First lifeless => completed/done (when we were nothing, we were lifeless)
First life => completed/done (our current life)
Second lifeless => not yet completed/to be done (we will die)
Second life => not yet completed/to be done (we will be brought to life)Wassalam,
AdePeace Ade
Then how do we explain 4011 if the first Lifeless/dead state was not by causing death.
4011 They will say, "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this path?"
-
Peace Ade
Then how do we explain 4011 if the first Lifeless/dead state was not by causing death.
4011 They will say, "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this path?"
Salam seekingtruth1111,
How can you reject God when you were lifeless and He brought you to life ? Then He makes you lifeless , then He brings you to life , then to Him you will be returned .
Context in this life
First lifeless => completed/done (when we were nothing, we were lifeless)
First life => completed/done (our current life)
Second lifeless => not yet completed/to be done (we will be lifeless)
Second life => not yet completed/to be done (we will be brought to life)They will say “Our Lord, You have made us lifeless twice , and You have given us life twice . Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this state?”
Context in the hereafter
lifeless twice => completed/done (when we were nothing + when we were lifeless after first life)
life twice => completed/done (first life + brought to life in hereafter)Wassalam,
Ade -
Peace jkhan
The question is when is the second life and second death if the first death is as follows?
3758 "Are we then not going to die,"
3759 "Except for our first death, and we will not be punished?"4434 These people now are saying
4435 "There is nothing but our first death; and we will never be resurrected!"4456 They do not taste death therein except for the first death, and He has spared them the retribution of hell.
Peace brother ST111
Verses are absolutely manifest and no need confuse over it… That’s why God orders us to explore the book… with exploration we get certain knowledge of what we not in fact needed for our salvation… That’s for knowledge and satisfaction..
4456 is addressed to those who live in Janna… Here God confirms they won’t taste Second death… First death of their entire life is the only death… Suppose if you are a believer accepted by God then you will definitely die one time on this earth and that is your first death and to have a death you need live life…So you experienced your death before you were resurrected and destined to live in Janna… You lived as human once that is your current life … before creation there is no life…. God confirms those in janna(true believers) only have one death and those in janna also confirms that they won’t die apart from their first death… Death is very clear according Quran.. Angels do come and take the soul and bring it to Lord.. Believers will only experience that only ONE TIME…But those who ended as disbelievers on their first death after having life will have another life within this current world and die.. that’s incontrovertible… God is Most Merciful… Probably God shown mercy when they pleaded send us back that we will do righteous with what we left.. but it seems it has become a habit on every time they die…
Ponder the below verses..
2399-100 “until, when death comes to one of them, he says, "My Lord, send me back, that I might do righteousness in that which I left behind." No! It is only a word he is saying; and behind them is a barrier until the Day they are resurrected.No believer will ever ask the above from God when death falls to them, coz if they are true believers they will find how pleasant they will be treated by angels and by what angels talk to them at the time of death they will leave happily and not beg like above.. So above verses definitely pertaining to disbelievers… But this verse seems request of those disbelievers who are about to die second time for third life… God replies it is only a word he is saying… God knows he was given two lives and not reformed.. from that moment there will be a Barrier (Barzakh) to such until the day they are resurrected..
In verse 4435 definitely they can’t accept the truth and adamant and denying that they will only die their current life being disbelievers and further deny the Resurrection (the final)… challenging if in case after first death there is another life then prove to us by bringing their ancestors back to life…they are in astray…total astray…
To Summarize…
Believers Life + Death + Life (life of Janna) … No death.. but perish when earth and heaven perish.. to nothing
Disbelievers Life+ Death + life + Death + Punishment (Jahanna..not living there and not dying) … but perish when earth and heavens perish or God’s will … to nothing..Since God and the people of blessed Janna confirmed that They won’t taste the death apart from their first death, it is much evident that those who were given two lives and two deaths never enter Janna… Two lives and two deaths not taught them anything and never reformed..
