Quran vs quranists
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Thanks for the information, I read the part where he mention that HIKMA is sunnah . so what do you say ?
I highly doubt you just read it, obviously i disagree.
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Look at what the prophet " I've been given the Quran and one ressemble to him" the word is in red and you can look for it in Sahih Muslims and Sahih Bukhari .and Typucally as God said "The book and the wisdom" .
It doesn't say Quran, and what you highlighted isn't the word "mithluhu" so who's hadith is this? bukhari? it has nothing about hikma.
there is no hadith explain this verse, you(me and you and the whole Muslim) must understand it, and see above there is hadith talks about the same situation the saying of the prophet that he was given the Quran and one ressemble to it(like him) .
HIKMA means the orders of the prophet, the saying of him, his reports, his deeds, his way of speaking who they are registred in hadith.
You didn't prove it, your just giving it that meaning which Shafi attributed, you learnt something new. it's not in hadith it's shafi's opinion that hikma = hadith. if there's not hadith that explains the verses than what's the use of hadith?
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Did I use Hadith from Bukhari book ?
No, it is khan who used Bukhari in his translation, not your fault bro! these people won't understand though. good luck.
Al-Hikmah (i.e. Sunnah, Isl?mic laws and Fiqh - jurisprudence), and teaching you that which you used not to know.
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Yes, yes RH. I got the touch, I got the power, after all is said and done, I've never walked, I've never run...I'm a winner. (transformers...I thought it was apt).
Now go away and let the lion awaken
The only winner here is me, every one will enter to this website and read this thread he will see the truth, so don't lie to yourself . I've asked your opinion and your interpretation of a verse and you went looking for Assaad interpretation, and the worst that you deleted the thread and you didn't accept a debate with me and you , you want to cover between guys here . I've showed that you're a christian and you're here to destroy Islam because you don't even speak using Quran .
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I'm not going to answer until you make it in another Thread and the debate will be with me and you .
This is as good a thread as any, what you waitin' for? Do you need me to taunt you like you did? Hmmm, your house plants smell like elderberries and your pet goldfish is a coward! Fight I say!No, I'll not respond you here, if you don't make it in another Thread, it is abvious that you want to delete and destroy this thread . Oh people I'm just looking for a fair crack of the whip . Am I asking the impossible ? a debate between me and her and all the forum will watch .
Haha, you got cold feet! You got cold feet! The whole forum is watching, only you won't debate... -
The only winner here is me, every one will enter to this website and read this thread he will see the truth, so don't lie to yourself . I've asked your opinion and your interpretation of a verse and you went looking for Assaad interpretation, and the worst that you deleted the thread and you didn't accept a debate with me and you , you want to cover between guys here . I've showed that you're a christian and you're here to destroy Islam because you don't even speak using Quran .
Just accept it, I'm the better man here. Forget Asad if he pours salt on your wounds so, think of it as me. if you want, I'll go change the asad to savage_carrot...would that make you happy enough to debate, or will you still pout? -
I highly doubt you just read it, obviously i disagree.
I swear I read the part where he mentioned the word HIKMA and he justified it from Quran and from Hdaith as well, I take in rarabic as it seems too strange for you arabic . now the subject is when we disagree we give a proof, not just say I disgree. now bring your proof if you're truthful.
It doesn't say Quran, and what you highlighted isn't the word "mithluhu" so who's hadith is this? bukhari? it has nothing about hikma.
So what does the prophet mean by I was given the book and Mithluhu ? and why God said "giving you the book and the wisdom ?
You didn't prove it, your just giving it that meaning which Shafi attributed, you learnt something new. it's not in hadith it's shafi's opinion that hikma = hadith. if there's not hadith that explains the verses than what's the use of hadith?
First of all I've said that I looked for theinformation myself then I looked for what the old and new scholars said. why they are wrong and you're right .
There are hadith explained some verses. And there are hadith for ligeslations . There are hadith for warning . there are hadith for ..........etc . you name it.
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The only winner here is me, every one will enter to this website and read this thread he will see the truth, so don't lie to yourself . I've asked your opinion and your interpretation of a verse and you went looking for Assaad interpretation, and the worst that you deleted the thread and you didn't accept a debate with me and you , you want to cover between guys here . I've showed that you're a christian and you're here to destroy Islam because you don't even speak using Quran .
You are hilarious
yes people will enter this site and see the truth, I think it should be made a 'sticky' so that it stays at the top for all to see your great debating skills and how you dance. I doubt it will be deleted for those same reasons too.
Now debate savage_carrot,IF you can, and stop whinging
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Just accept it, I'm the better man here. Forget Asad if he pours salt on your wounds so, think of it as me. if you want, I'll go change the asad to savage_carrot...would that make you happy enough to debate, or will you still pout?
whatever, the most important thing is make it in another Thread weather is Assad or carrot . And the discussion will be with me and you . merde you have wasted my time now I have to go to sleep. and Tomorrow please make it the thread if you're truthfull
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sir, didn't you hear it before? Al-hikma i.e. the sunna of the prophet was also sent down by God! means it is included in bima anzalallahu!
Now listen this also
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.23b.gif
Have you not marked the attitude of those who were given a share from The Bookhttp//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.23c.gif
when they are asked to refer to the Book of Allah {Grand Qur'aan] so that it resolves and decides amongst them;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.23a.gif
they come/refer to it but afterwards one party of them walks away turning their face and they after having seen the Book avoid it.With what judgmet is intended to be made? The Book-Grand Qur'aan.
What our Bukhari and co mongers are doing? Is there any difference what Jews did with Qur'aan?
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No, it is khan who used Bukhari in his translation, not your fault bro! these people won't understand though. good luck.
Thank you so much, They want to hide the truth and to ruin the thread. This carrot have banned me before and have restricted me from writinh hadith but he got my answer . he thinks that I'll feel fear because he is one of the admin, well he better swallow it.
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whatever, the most important thing is make it in another Thread weather is Assad or carrot . And the discussion will be with me and you . merde you have wasted my time now I have to go to sleep. and Tomorrow please make it the thread if you're truthfull
Mon Dieu! the only one wasting their time is yourself. Instead of running away, you could've posted your scandal me. Instead it was just a copy paste of my own post. Big whoop that was, yeah that totally cut the legs from right under me. My own post. Good job that. pat patAs I said, we ain't budging from this here thread buddy. Better come ready and prepared with your silver bullets...same place, same channel.
Thank you so much, They want to hide the truth and to ruin the thread. This carrot have banned me before and have restricted me from writinh hadith but he got my answer . he thinks that I'll feel fear because he is one of the admin, well he better swallow it.
Rh, you really are a character...what, you pm'ed him and told him I'm a man? This was supposed to be our secret, dammit. -
Thank you so much, They want to hide the truth and to ruin the thread. This carrot have banned me before and have restricted me from writinh hadith but he got my answer . he thinks that I'll feel fear because he is one of the admin, well he better swallow it.
and he's got your thread ruined already my friend !!
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Rh, you really are a character...what, you pm'ed him and told him I'm a man? This was supposed to be our secret, dammit.
no, you told him that
I'm the better man here
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Ah I see. My theory was so much more fun. Anyways, gentlemen, start your engines, we attack at dawn.
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When the truth doesn't befit you...run for the hills! Learn something new everyday.
why all the mods are rushing to this thread? btw I thought you got banned coz haven't heard from you since long! welcome
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What, don't tell me you believe the rumours too?
Is inadvertent/accidental refutation/undermining more to your liking then?
It's quite simple really, at the end of the day. There are discussions and then there are discussions. The latter don't fall into the learning/sharing/okay you keep yours, I'll keep mine category. You have someone who's out to ply his trade without sharing, listening, learning. There is no ambiguity about that here. Then again, I'm not surprised that instead of picking up on that and his whimsical two-step, you claim he is the one being undermined.
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But some would say that The Prophet PBUH's job was only to deliver the message. So why would he need Wisdom?
Delivering a message and explaining a message with wisdom are two different duties and responsibilities? No?
For people who are struggling with the topic, maybe you should counter with the following ayats
358 THIS MESSAGE do We convey unto thee, and this tiding full of wisdom
101 Alif Lam. Ra. THESE ARE MESSAGES of the divine writ, full of wisdom.
312 THESE ARE MESSAGES of the divine writ, full of wisdom,
362 Consider this Qur?an full of wisdom
But the problem arises when the Arabic term Book and Wisdom comes into the equation.
Thereformer1 is correct in asking, what is this magic word Wisdom in light of the Quran?
Finally, can someone please explain the following ayat explaining the differences or meanings if any, of revelation, wisdom and prophethood as 3 seperate entities as mentioned or does it mean one and the same thing?
4516 AND, INDEED, unto the children of Israel did We vouchsafe revelation, and wisdom, and prophethood; and We provided for them sustenance out of the good things of life, and favoured them above all other people .
Peace
salam bro, i have been thinking about this. now lets substitute the words Quran and Message with Wallet (assuming we agree that the message IS Quran) and the word Wisdom with Money and look at these verses again.
358 THIS WALLET do We convey unto thee, and this tiding full of MONEY
101 Alif Lam. Ra. THESE ARE WALLETS of the divine writ, full of MONEY.
312 THESE ARE WALLETS of the divine writ, full of MONEY,
362 Consider this WALLET full of MONEY
But the problem arises when the Arabic term WALLET and MONEY comes into the equation.
Now if I have said I have given you a WALLET full of MONEY and then I say I have given you THE WALLET and THE MONEY am I referring to a different lot of MONEY other than the WALLET that is full of MONEY?