Quran vs quranists
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RasulHamsa gave you a good point to think about it, he does not want to force you to believe in what he said but thinking about it, is too easy . God said two things
1- teaches you THE BOOK and THE WISDOM ... If the prophet is allowed to teach, where is this teaching ?
it is Quran. If I 'teach' you a poem I teach you the words of the poem.2- teaches you that which you ddi not know.. so there is somthing besides Quran, How ? and why ? and where is it if you claim that you follow Quran alone ? even you violate these verses if you don't admit that prophet his mission was to warn and to greet and to teach and it is the important word here .
961-5 Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood
Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-
He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
Taught man that which he knew not.Is Allah saying He taught the use of the pen? Did He come and show man how to hold the pen and show him how to write with the pen? is Allah saying the use of the pen is that which man did not know?
What was taught is Quran, it is IN Quran that Allah gave the lesson, the lesson is IN Quran. What is the point of giving the Quran which is full of wisdom if Muhammed was to teach something totally different?
Please answer these questions
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I realize I am new to this website and I will try to refrain from being a know-it-all
-- because I don't know it all and would never claim to...
but this is... peas and carrots, is it not?
Yes it is. The thread has come to a point that it's clearly a waste of time explaining the obvious. Some would say there was no need to in the first place and I would tend to agree. -
But did the Prophet PBUH come to teach?
Isn't the PM's stance that the Prophet PBUH's job was only to deliver the message which is usually backed up by ayat 599 amongst other ayats?
The question again is how did the Prophet PBUH deliver the message and where does wisdom come into the equation?
Peace
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But did the Prophet PBUH come to teach?
Isn't the PM's stance that the Prophet PBUH's job was only to deliver the message which is usually backed up by ayat 599 amongst other ayats?
The question again is how did the Prophet PBUH deliver the message and where does wisdom come into the equation?
Peace
Salaam Zulu,
I believe Prophet Muhammad's duty was to deliver the message. He was bestowed the wisdom (the essence of the Qur'an) so he could lead the Believers through examples and actions. For example, when the Qur'an ordains the Believers to speak humbly and modestly, the Prophet would know better not to swear or talk to others harshly. What he did to give examples to the Believers, is all in the Qur'an.
When the Qur'an ordained the Prophet to say 'salaamun alaikum' to the Believers, that's what he did or do you think the wisdom of the Prophet is to say 'Assalaamu 'alaikum instead?" When the Qur'an ordained the Prophet to perform ablution by washing the face, the hands and rubbing the head and the feet, that's what he did, or do you the think the wisdom of the Prophet is to add washing the mouth, rubbing the nose and rubbing the ears? Prophet was endowed the understanding of the Qur'an, so he could lead by examples.
We need not look other sources other than the Qur'an to see what the Prophet did.
Salaam.
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Liar. I said "Egypt has a lot of power cuts" page 16 this thread, go check. i cant believe you even twist that!
Don't see Liar, let's speak in a good way please . Your sentence is like someone has the power to cut it .I said no one can't . You must said I didn't mean that , I mean this and this not a liar .
And of course someone has the power to cut it! They flick a switch!
see above .
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Salaam Zulu,
I believe Prophet Muhammad's duty was to deliver the message. He was bestowed the wisdom (the essence of the Qur'an) so he could lead the Believers through examples and actions.
Violating
he (the prophet) teaches you alKitaab and alHikmah and teaches you that which you did not know.
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Don't see Liar, let's speak in a good way please . Your sentence is like someone has the power to cut it .I said no one can't . You must said I didn't mean that , I mean this and this not a liar .
see above .
I apologize for calling you a liar, I have obvioulsy taken some of your attitude with reading so many of your posts. I should be correcting my bad points from seeing yours instead of copying them.
my sentence is very clear and in perfect English. 'Egypt has a lot of power cuts' is all I said and said nothing about someone cutting the power to it. I DID say twice now or maybe more that you have misunderstood and added words to mine as you do all the time with Quran and Gods Words but you still do not understand and carry on with words you think you saw which are not there. So that is a lie.
Now please lets not make power cuts into another 12 page fight because it is clear what I said and it is clear you read something else into that which is your manner.
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Salaam Zulu,
I believe Prophet Muhammad's duty was to deliver the message. He was bestowed the wisdom (the essence of the Qur'an) so he could lead the Believers through examples and actions. For example, when the Qur'an ordains the Believers to speak humbly and modestly, the Prophet would know better not to swear or talk to others harshly. What he did to give examples to the Believers, is all in the Qur'an.
When the Qur'an ordained the Prophet to say 'salaamun alaikum' to the Believers, that's what he did or do you think the wisdom of the Prophet is to say 'Assalaamu 'alaikum instead?" When the Qur'an ordained the Prophet to perform ablution by washing the face, the hands and rubbing the head and the feet, that's what he did, or do you the think the wisdom of the Prophet is to add washing the mouth, rubbing the nose and rubbing the ears? Prophet was endowed the understanding of the Qur'an, so he could lead by examples.
We need not look other sources other than the Qur'an to see what the Prophet did.
Salaam.
fully agree and very well put.
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Now please lets not make power cuts into another 12 page fight because it is clear what I said and it is clear you read something else into that which is your manner.
http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=8242 http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=8242
http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=8242 -
I apologize for calling you a liar, I have obvioulsy taken some of your attitude with reading so many of your posts. I should be correcting my bad points from seeing yours instead of copying them.
Your apologize is accepted , My apologize too .
my sentence is very clear and in perfect English. 'Egypt has a lot of power cuts' is all I said and said nothing about someone cutting the power to it. I DID say twice now or maybe more that you have misunderstood and added words to mine as you do all the time with Quran and Gods Words but you still do not understand and carry on with words you think you saw which are not there. So that is a lie.
I'm not going to speak about that because God knows . My aim is to show the truth but as I see you don't want to listen and even to think about what I said, you don't study Quran, you don't study Hadith and you don't study Arabic , but you talk. Is tha make a sense ? No . So now you're considering me a liar and until you go and study Quran and Hadith and arabic , you'll back up your claims about me . I think my posts to you are done, go to work with people don't speak, if they don't know the subject .
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Your apologize is accepted , My apologize too .
I'm not going to speak about that because God knows . My aim is to show the truth but as I see you don't want to listen and even to think about what I said, you don't study Quran, you don't study Hadith and you don't study Arabic , but you talk. Is tha make a sense ? No . So now you're considering me a liar and until you go and study Quran and Hadith and arabic , you'll back up your claims about me . I think my posts to you are done, go to work with people don't speak, if they don't know the subject .
you really are incredibly blind
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you really are incredibly blind
Yes, who studied yesterday is blind today, and who heard a gossip yesterday, is well-known today . This is not new. People like you are the majority in the world.
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Dear BornAgain
So we agree that the job was not only to deliver the message but to deliver the message via teaching and showing of examples and actions all within the confines of the Quran. This skill is known as teaching. So the message was delivered via teaching therefore ayat 599 and any other ayat that states that the Prophet PBUH's job is just to deliver becomes invalid because the Prophet PBUH's job was not just to deliver. It was to teach the message which could then be accepted as delivery in line with ayat 567.
Teach
?verb (used with object)
1.to impart knowledge of or skill in; give instruction in i.e. She teaches mathematics.
2.to impart knowledge or skill to; give instruction to He teaches a large class.Additional to this delivery with teaching, the Prophet PBUH was also ordered to judge.
465 But nay, by thy Sustainer! They do not believe unless they make thee a judge of all on which they disagree among themselves, and then find in their hearts no bar to an acceptance of thy decision and give themselves up in utter self-surrender.
542 those who eagerly listen to any falsehood, greedily swallowing all that is evil! Hence, if they come to thee , thou mayest either judge between them or leave them alone for, if thou leave them alone, they cannot harm thee in any way. But if thou dost judge, judge between them with equity verily, God knows those who act equitably.
Where do we find the records of these judgements if we wanted to use them for reference?
What about Prayers and Piligrimage? Was this also shown and taught and where do we find the records of these teachings for reference?
This is known as case studies. Just like in any court of Law, when a lawyer argues a case whether for or against a client, he/she uses previous case studies in order to sway the judge and so will the judge cite a previous case study all within the confines of Law i.e.
Driskel v Peninsula Business Services
CIT v DRI
CIT v Glenmark Pharmaceuticals
Fitzpatrick v National Maternity Hospital
Peace
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Salaam Zulu,
I believe Prophet Muhammad's duty was to deliver the message. He was bestowed the wisdom (the essence of the Qur'an) so he could lead the Believers through examples and actions. For example, when the Qur'an ordains the Believers to speak humbly and modestly, the Prophet would know better not to swear or talk to others harshly. What he did to give examples to the Believers, is all in the Qur'an.
When the Qur'an ordained the Prophet to say 'salaamun alaikum' to the Believers, that's what he did or do you think the wisdom of the Prophet is to say 'Assalaamu 'alaikum instead?" When the Qur'an ordained the Prophet to perform ablution by washing the face, the hands and rubbing the head and the feet, that's what he did, or do you the think the wisdom of the Prophet is to add washing the mouth, rubbing the nose and rubbing the ears? Prophet was endowed the understanding of the Qur'an, so he could lead by examples.
We need not look other sources other than the Qur'an to see what the Prophet did.
Salaam.
Allah sent down two things on the prophet
The prophet taught two things
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alKitaab = quran
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alHikmah = -------
now don't assume, just using the quran alone tell us what is alHikmah that God sent down and the prophet taught to his people?
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Salaam Zulu,
Yes, the Prophet showed examples on how to practice the Qur'an, however, he did not create a new set of rules that can nowhere be found in the Qur'an. He exercised the Qur'anic commandments as they are written in the Qur'an, and he did not add nor subtract anything. FYI, I do not dismiss hadiths all together. Some hadiths, stories, other people's opinions and sayings, can have merits and inspire me to be a better person. However, I do not make them religiously binding nor I will say that they are the will of God.
Back to the topic, I believe when it is not stated in the Qur'an, it means that God gives us flexibility as to how we are going to perform it. Regarding salaat, for argument's sake, let's say that salaat equates ritual worship. It is not specified in the Qur'an how to worship God, because what matters is what's inside. I don't think I can rely on outside references anyway, since they differ. I have performed ritual worship with both ahlussunnah wal jama'ah and Shia Muslims, and their movements are different, and to my knowledge, they all claim to follow the "records of the Prophet's deeds and sayings".
Anyway, same goes with other commandments. You are not 100% told how much charity you should give, as long as you are not too stingy or too spendy. I don't know about you, but do you feel insecure if you cannot get details for every single thing that you do?
I guess what I am trying to say, yes, the Prophet delivered the Qur'an and set examples. However, these examples are in line with the Qur'an and nothing 'extra'. If Qur'an prohibits only 4 things to eat, then the Prophet would abstain from those 4 things and he would never, never prohibit something else for the Believers.
The references and records can all be found in the Qur'an, the Book that is authorised by God. You will find the Prophet's sayings/hadiths in the Qur'an, hence many of the verses are commanding the Prophet to "Say...". The Qur'an is the timeless record, and no Islamic scholar would dare to say that one Qur'anic verse is "weak" or "fabricated". Would you then seek references somewhere else?
Salaam.
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I thought you were the majority ???
Yes, In Muslims world, but I must admit that Ignorants are the majority in the world .
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Yes, In Muslims world, but I must admit that Ignorants are the majority in the world .
brother, don't let them go off-topic!