Asalamalaikum from Canada
-
Peace Jack
I'm glad that you agree with me and Sister BornAgain that we should not be agressors and that we should only fight in self defence when it comes to physical confrontations )
And i fully agree that we are to stand up for the truth, that we should follow the system of Abraham (monotheism), etc.
I like your interpretation of the story of Abraham and the idols getting crushed. However, i think the story of Abraham is not about a verbal confrontation. Yes, it seems that he used sarcasm. But in my opinion the lesson of the story is that we should crush idols/falsehood in the society through argument not trough mockery. But i am willing to consider new ideas and change my approach. But first i need to study the story and the other verses before i can change my approach when it comes to verbal confrontation.Thanks for your answers.
-
Hello friends
My name is Salman and i am a relatively newer "God Alone" revert. I immigrated to Canada in 2001 from Pakistan. I am from a typical "sheep mentality" sunni family where i blindly believed everything i was told about Islam. About two years ago, i picked up the Quran myself and first time in my short 33 year lifespan, i started to read it myself. It was not long before i finally realized that how wrong were the so many concepts, stories and beliefs that i held to myself about Islam. As i moved along reading the Quran, so many questions that i had kept on getting answered one by one.
I have also read the Bible and i sometimes do dawah to christians too and i find them much more willing and open to listen to criticism. I have given a few lectures on islam at a few churches locally here as well. It is my daily schedule to read and research the Quran and tell the truth to all others who are willing to listen. I think it is more important for us muslims to do dawah to our fellow muslims since so many of us are blindly following every other book but the Quran.
I thank Allah for guiding me to the right direction i.e. "God Alone" since on the day of judgement, it will be just me and him. No Bukhari, Muslim, Muhammad, Jesus or any other prophet or imam.
I would like to connect with other like minded individuals on this awesome forum who are from Canada (Toronto).
Also, i am looking for Edip Yuskel's translation locally in Toronto but cant seem to find a copy in local book stores. I will appreciate if someone can help me find it.
Thanks and Wasalam
Salman Zuberi
Peace be upon you,
with all due Respect.welcome welcome to the forum, brother and i must say my story is pretty much the same.
I am also grateful to God The Most High for guiding me the Right Way.I'm working on several projects regarding spreading the truth, maybe we can work together.
God knows best.Peace.
-
Hello friends
My name is Salman and i am a relatively newer "God Alone" revert. I immigrated to Canada in 2001 from Pakistan. I am from a typical "sheep mentality" sunni family where i blindly believed everything i was told about Islam. About two years ago, i picked up the Quran myself and first time in my short 33 year lifespan, i started to read it myself. It was not long before i finally realized that how wrong were the so many concepts, stories and beliefs that i held to myself about Islam. As i moved along reading the Quran, so many questions that i had kept on getting answered one by one.
I have also read the Bible and i sometimes do dawah to christians too and i find them much more willing and open to listen to criticism. I have given a few lectures on islam at a few churches locally here as well. It is my daily schedule to read and research the Quran and tell the truth to all others who are willing to listen. I think it is more important for us muslims to do dawah to our fellow muslims since so many of us are blindly following every other book but the Quran.
I thank Allah for guiding me to the right direction i.e. "God Alone" since on the day of judgement, it will be just me and him. No Bukhari, Muslim, Muhammad, Jesus or any other prophet or imam.
I would like to connect with other like minded individuals on this awesome forum who are from Canada (Toronto).
Also, i am looking for Edip Yuskel's translation locally in Toronto but cant seem to find a copy in local book stores. I will appreciate if someone can help me find it.
Thanks and Wasalam
Salman Zuberi
Salaam Salman
David Aitken would want you not to talk to people and see for yourself so he is bad mouthing me. I know David very well, and my daughter was in school with him for 4 years and introduced him to submission. His teachers knew that he would come up with the craziest ideas, insist he is right and could never be wrong. He craves attention, likes to create disruption and in his own words, 'created a terrible chaos' when he was with the Toronto community of submitters. He tried to bring in his distorted version of Rashad Khalifa tapes, the ones he is now bashing, to corrupt the zakat and salat instead of following the clear Quran. According to him, zakat was to be only paid on what you get via paychecks, then he kept adjusting this formula to include business income and interest. According to him, if you said 'Al lazeena' instead of 'Al-ladheena' your salat was nullfied and a waste of time. I challenged him on the basis of Quran and that is why he does not like me. Either you agree with his distorted understanding of Quran or he bad mouths you and considers you a follow of Rashad, or an idol worshipper. He is exactly like Edip Yuksel but the two hate each other.
You can judge me, and the wonderful community of submitters we have here, after meeting us, not after listening to David's rants and ravings, jealousy and bias.
Feroz -
His teachers knew that he would come up with the craziest ideas, insist he is right and could never be wrong. He craves attention, likes to create disruption and in his own words, 'created a terrible chaos' when he was with the Toronto community of submitters.
Sounds like a perfect description of Rashad Khalifa, just replace the "Toronto community of submitters" with Islam in general, as you even admit you are your own sect... But Rashad would take it a step further and say you will go to hell if you don't agree with his fabricated hadith and tafseer.
-
Salaam George,
Thank you for the reply. If you don't mind, kindly allow me to respond to some of your statements ).
While the verse that you posted, regards the followers of Muhammad, there are other verses that tell us to utter words of peace to the those who are ignorant.
The (faithful) slaves of the Beneficent are they who walk upon the earth modestly, and when the foolish ones address them answer Peace;
These will be given their reward twice over, because they are steadfast and repel evil with good, and spend of that wherewith We have provided them, And when they hear vanity they withdraw from it and say Unto us our works and unto you your works. Peace be unto you! We desire not the ignorant.
And remember what God told Musa to do, when he was about to face Fir'aun one of the worst offenders and transgressors in the eye of God.
Go, both of you, unto Pharaoh. Lo! he hath transgressed (the bounds). And speak unto him a gentle word, that peradventure he may heed or fear.
Yes, we are commanded to speak the truth. But to tell the truth, we do not need to include name calling or insults. We are encouraged to deliver the teaching of the Qur'an peacefully, and it is up to God to open their hearts. What I currently see as unnecessary is the name-calling and insults because I feel that nothing positive can be achieved by doing so.
Well, I too coped verbal abuses on a few occasions when people discovered my spiritual belief. So? It's part of the trial and we have to be patient in facing it. Rather than finger-pointing as to whose faults it is, I think the best way to improve the condition is taking actions and making changes.
Being a warner does not necessarily mean we use to use harsh and condescending words, right?
While I do not take the muhadithins' compilation of hadiths as religiously binding, I have to say that not all these hadiths are bad. There are some that are nice and inspirational, and I have no problem with that. Yes, there are many that I do not agree with because they are illogical and cruel, though I have to say I make that conclusion using modern perspectives. We may not agree with marrying a 9 year old girl, but at that period of time, it was normal for a girl to be married at such a young age. Heck, in my country of origin, there are still village girls who get married at the age of 10. We might think that the idea of owning slaves is a slander, but slavery did exist back then, and it was just recently abolished.
Anyway, the point that I am trying to make with Bukhari and other muhadithin is that we never know their true intentions. It might be purely political and corruption, but possibility remained that they were sincere in preserving the sayings and deeds of Muhammad. We cannot claim with certainty that they intended to slander Muhammad and God, because we are judging their literature using modern perspectives.
If we do not agree with the teachings of the hadiths, by all means do not practice it and try to warn the others. However, I advise that I advise that we refrain from using harsh words because it does nothing for us. Instead, it hurts our image and it hurts our soul.
Firstly, I am not a better muslim than you are. Only God knows.
Secondly, I too have been called kaffir by some people for not following the hadiths and I understand that it hurts. I believe, however, that we can 'fight' them by standing in dignity, and not lowering our standards to match theirs. I said previously that islam is about establishing peace, and there will be many trials to come. Satan will always be there to tempt us after we believe and we have to be careful not to fall into his trap. Don't let ourselves sink into hatred and contempt, after we have declared to maintain peace.
Whenever people trouble me with their words, I'll just keep in mind these verses
Well know We that thy bosom is times oppressed by what they say, But hymn the praise of thy Lord, and be of those who make prostration (unto Him). And serve thy Lord till the Inevitable cometh unto thee.
The verses work wonders D.
Yes, I understand that we should defend ourselves when confronted. However, in terms of debates and arguments, there are boundaries that we must adhere too. Verbally, we are required to defend our beliefs, through powerful and convincing words. However, I believe speaking powerful words can be achieved without resorting to harsh words at all. When they speak vain and rude words, it is best to withdraw from them I suppose.
I do. I have experienced engaging in hot debates with some traditional muslims and the whole thing turned really really messy. It was then, that I decided to stop talking in confronting manners and withdrawing from them, that I could finally make peace between us, and within. Interestingly, some actually 'looked' for me after my withdrawal and asked me about what I am currently gaining from my current study.
Anyway, enough for my rambling. Whatever you do, I hope that is for the best, and that you'll gain peace ).
Salaam.
bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo
By the way, I agree completely with your later elaboration on hadith. You speak in a very careful, honest, clear and nuanced manner.
Some of these hadith are indeed inspirational, and touch the hearts of those who only seek the guidance of the Qu'ran, because they are merely paraphrasing what can already be found in the Qu'ran'Shall I not tell you whom the (Hell)
Fire is forbidden to touch? It is forbidden to touch a man who is
always accessible, having polite and tender nature.''Ok, the Prophet pbuh cannot guarantee salvation. However I think we can all agree that there is quite a good chance that hell fire cannot touch you if you display the above characteristics. We can deduce that those who are always accessible, having polite and tender nature, are patiently persevering because they are God fearing. The Qu'ran says the most honoured in God's sight are those who are God fearing. And that God is with those who patiently persevere.
Not equal are the good and the bad response. You shall resort the one which is better. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend.
O mankind, We have created you male and female, and appointed you nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely the noblest among you in the sight of God is the most Godfearing of you. God is All-knowing, All-aware.
"Oh you who believe! Seek help with patient perseverance and prayer, for God is with those who patiently persevere."
-
Some of these hadith are indeed inspirational, and touch the hearts of those who only seek the guidance of the Qu'ran, because they are merely paraphrasing what can already be found in the Qu'ran
And if what is in these hadith can already be found in the Quran then shouldnt the Quran be inspiration enough ?.
We can deduce that those who are always accessible, having polite and tender nature, are patiently persevering because they are God fearing. The Qu'ran says the most honoured in God's sight are those who are God fearing. And that God is with those who patiently persevere.
But an hadith follower who is "polite" and "tender" is still an hadith follower and according to the Quran anyone who follows any other hadith (except the Quran )no matter how polite and tender they are obviously not GOD fearing enough and are is commiting a serious sin and I use the word serious becuase from what I have learnt from reading the Quran is anything that GOD tells us not to do repeatedly i.e. shirk, idolatry, hadith following e.t.c the he must consider it it very serious and if practised till death is punishable with the hellfire.
-
Some of these hadith are indeed inspirational, and touch the hearts of those who only seek the guidance of the Qu'ran, because they are merely paraphrasing what can already be found in the Qu'ran
And if what is in these hadith can already be found in the Quran then shouldnt the Quran be inspiration enough ?.
We can deduce that those who are always accessible, having polite and tender nature, are patiently persevering because they are God fearing. The Qu'ran says the most honoured in God's sight are those who are God fearing. And that God is with those who patiently persevere.
But an hadith follower who is "polite" and "tender" is still an hadith follower and according to the Quran anyone who follows any other hadith (except the Quran )no matter how polite and tender they are obviously not GOD fearing enough and are is commiting a serious sin and I use the word serious becuase from what I have learnt from reading the Quran is anything that GOD tells us not to do repeatedly i.e. shirk, idolatry, hadith following e.t.c the he must consider it it very serious and if practised till death is punishable with the hellfire.
Yes, I never implied that it is ok to follow hadith. I merely pointed out that even those hadith which are not depraved are actually saying what is already in the Qu'ran, therefore it not being necessary if one takes the time to read the Qu'ran and notice that these benevolent hadiths are already in the Qu'ran.
-
Yes, I never implied that it is ok to follow hadith. I merely pointed out that even those hadith which are not depraved are actually saying what is already in the Qu'ran, therefore it not being necessary if one takes the time to read the Qu'ran and notice that these benevolent hadiths are already in the Qu'ran.
Fair enough, Im just saying that the only hadith that is benevolent is the Quran.