The Islamic -hajj- was only during the lifetime of the -rasool-.
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Salaam Abdalquran
When reading the Koran we have to be aware of the right time-frames we can learn from the history of Musa but we should not suggest that his story is still happening nowadays. Regulations about slavery and the zahar-formula (concerning illegal divorce) have a social and historical context.
So I can not agree with your general assumption that nothing is time-sensitive in the Koran.No offense brother but that mindset you have will disempower the Quran. The Quran functions best when it is seen as a prediction of present events. When it?s seen as past events, it conceals the truth of the message (83/13)
Two clear questions for you
1 Who on earth has nowadays the authority to announce -the hajj- and to decide at which moment within the four restricted moons it has to happen? - verse 2227 and verse 2197
Anyone who establishes the house of Allah as per 2/125
2 Who is the -rasool- to whom the participants of the -hajj- have to come? - verse 2227
It?s not a rasool per se since the word rasool isn?t mentioned there but please refer to my answer in part one.
Basically, its not about who calls it or where it is but rather if the house of God is established there. Once it is, anyone can call people to witness it.
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Salaam Abdalquran
No offense brother but that mindset you have will disempower the Quran. The Quran functions best when it is seen as a prediction of present events. When it?s seen as past events, it conceals the truth of the message (83/13)
I do not consider any verse of the Koran as an irrelevant tale of the past - verse 8313, the believers can learn from all the verses of the Koran.
But that does not mean that every description given in the Koran should be copied into daily life.
We have to discern verses that have direct assignments for the believers in general, from verses that can inspire the believers in their faith.
The Koran states in verse 2227 that the -hajj- is to the -rasool-, because these words were directed to the -rasool-.
It is not defendable to go to -el hajj- to something of someone else - this seems to be a human innovation, not supported by the Koran.Anyone who establishes the house of Allah as per 2/125
This is your assumption - contrary to verse 2227, the words are directly and exclusively to the -rasool-, the one who is adressed as -you- by the Creator, who had to announce the -hajj-, so that the believers would come to him.
We can not change a single letter from the Koran.I agree with you that there can be established Islamic safe-houses - verse 396.
But the visits to these houses are not to be named -el hajj-, since there is not a living -rasool-.
The visit to such a safe-house is different from the -hajj-, nevertheless the wording -hijju albayti- in verse 397. This refers to the endeavor to visit the safe-house regularly, this is different from the noun -el hajj-, which means amongst others the process of convincing.
We cannot convince a house, but we can visit an Islamic safe-house regularly.Salaam,
truthseeker171 -
Salaam Abdalquran
I do not consider any verse of the Koran as an irrelevant tale of the past - verse 8313, the believers can learn from all the verses of the Koran
But that does not mean that every description given in the Koran should be copied into daily life.
.I can?t agree with you here, sorry. To me, when the Quran uses the word ayah/signs, it is precisely because everything is a sign to be experienced.
.
We have to discern verses that have direct assignments for the believers in general, from verses that can inspire the believers in their faith.
The Koran states in verse 2227 that the -hajj- is to the -rasool-, because these words were directed to the -rasool-.
It is not defendable to go to -el hajj- to something of someone else - this seems to be a human innovation, not supported by the Koran.
.The word rasool is nowhere to be found in 22/27 or its immediate context. So how do you assume this?
.This is your assumption - contrary to verse 2227, the words are directly and exclusively to the -rasool-, the one who is adressed as -you- by the Creator, who had to announce the -hajj-, so that the believers would come to him.
We can not change a single letter from the Koran..
The ?you? automatically means messenger? There?s no proof of this, sorry. If God knows that people would read his book, then surely he?ll know they?d be addressed as ?you?.
.I agree with you that there can be established Islamic safe-houses - verse 396.
But the visits to these houses are not to be named -el hajj-, since there is not a living -rasool-.
The visit to such a safe-house is different from the -hajj-, nevertheless the wording -hijju albayti- in verse 397. This refers to the endeavor to visit the safe-house regularly, this is different from the noun -el hajj-, which means amongst others the process of convincing.
We cannot convince a house, but we can visit an Islamic safe-house regularly.
.The thing is, there is no textual link between ?rasool? and ?hajj?, you?re assuming it comes from the ?you? but again, there?s no proof that the ?you? refers to the rasool all the time.
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Salaam Ayisha
It might be good to read the verses concerned again.
002.197
YUSUFALI For Hajj are the months well known. If any one undertakes that duty therein, Let there be no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling in the Hajj. And whatever good ye do, (be sure) Allah knoweth it. And take a provision (With you) for the journey, but the best of provisions is right conduct. So fear Me, o ye that are wise.Where does it say there has to be an announcement or a particular moment?
Verse 2227 - And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men ... -.
The Koranic -hajj- probably lasted 3 to 10 days - 2196, so there had to be a timing within the time-frame of the four moons - 2197.
The event of the Koranic -hajj- was not a private visit to an empty building, but a conference with the -rasool-.
During this -hajj- there were special rulings for the foodsupply, the offering of the cattle - 2236, 597.
People had to be in a restricted state - 2197.
So it was a communal event - at special days within the four full moons, to be decided by the -rasool-.Saudi have decided at which point the hajj is, which is wrong, they also decide who can go, which is wrong. It is open to ALL
The decisions of the Saudi authorities seem to be less relevant, the decision about the -hajj- was only to be taken by the living -rasool-, verse 2227.
But in any case we can not deny following verseVerse 928 - O you who believe, the idol worshippers are unclean; they shall not be permitted to approach the -restricted masjid- after this year. If you fear loss of income, God will shower you with His provisions, in accordance with His will. God is Omniscient, Most Wise. -
So according to the Koran after a certain year the idol worshippers were not allowed to approach the -restricted masjid-, this was an element of the -hajj-.
022.027
YUSUFALI "And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways;The pilgrimage is for people to worship GOD at the Sacred House of GOD, not to see a man/messenger/prophet, but a rite set by Allah from the time of Abraham. It is the prophets/messengers (all of them) duty to proclaim this rite of pilgrimage.
To say this is only to see the prophet Muhammed is the same as saying follow him means follow hadith!
I agree with you that it was the messengers duty to proclaim the -hajj-, but since the last human messenger has departed - the Islamic -hajj- can not be proclaimed anymore.
As you quoted verse 2227 - And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men they will come to thee....-.
The -hajj- was to visit the living -rasool-, not for walking around an empty building.
I can not agree with your analogy of accepting ahadeeth, there is a structural difference between visiting an empty building and going to a conference with the living -rasool-. According to verse 2227 - they will come to thee... -.Salaam,
truthseeker171 -
Salaam Khalil
If you read verses 2230, 2233, 2234, 2236 and 2237 together with verse 2227 than you might see that verse 2227 refers to the -rasool- Mohammad.
Verse 2225 tells about the abuse of the Islamic safe-house by the infidels - this is within the time-frame of the life of Mohammad.
Verse 2226 refers to Abraham as the founder of an Islamic safe-house and the purpose of it.
Verse 2227 informs Mohammad and the believers about the Islamic -hajj-, a conference with the living -rasool-.If you still see this otherwise than for instance verse 395 becomes relevant.
According to this verse Mohammad follows the religion of Abraham. So even if you assume that verse 2227 refers to Abraham than this ruling about the -hajj- being a visit to the living -rasool- is valid.
Mohammed did not change the words of God about the -hajj-.
In the Koran we can not find any proof that Mohammad invited the believers for instance to visit an empty building - to have a particular male dress-code - to throw stones at some pilars and so on.We can not be guided by an empty building, the true Islamic -hajj- was about receiving guidance - 2198
The -hajj el akbar-, the Islamic -hajj- was to respect the invitation of the living -rasool- to receive guidance from the Koran by him.Two clear questions for you
1 Who on earth has nowadays the authority to announce -the hajj- and to decide at which moment within the four restricted moons it has to happen? - verse 2227 and verse 2197
2 Who is the -rasool- to whom the participants of the -hajj- have to come? - verse 2227Salaam and greetings,
truthseeker171Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
2226 directs Abraham to locate the KA?BAH and keep it clean and in-order for the pilgrims.
2227 directs Abraham to, for the first time; call upon the people to come for the HAJJ pilgrimage.According to the Qur?aan the Prophet Muhammad overtook the city of MECCA by means of war, with multitude of his followers alongside with him. He, i.e., Muhammad, did not have to call upon the people to come to HAJJ pilgrimage at all.
Verse 395 is not the only verse in the Qur?aan that direct us to follow the religion of Abraham. He, as the Qur?aan says, is our FATHER in faith.
In 2197 GOD informs us that the MONTHS of HAJJ pilgrimage are certain specified months of the launar year. This tells us that the HAJJ is to be performed during certain scheduled months on a regular basis, each and every year.
I can go on and on, but I think I?ve said enough, acceptable to common sense.
Peace,
Khalil -
peace truthseeker171
How about this verse?
They ask you about the phases of the moon! Say, "They provide a timing device for the people, and determine the time of Hajj." It is not righteous to beat around the bush; righteousness is attained by upholding the commandments and by being straightforward. You shall observe GOD, that you may succeed.
peace
-
Salaam Asana
During the life-time of the -rasool- there had to be a general sign for the start or ending of the -hajj-, probably because of the absence of an internationally accepted calendar.
The phases of the moon are a rather objective timing-device. During the life-time of the -rasool- there were already believers living a greater distances from him.
Still the -rasool- had to decide which -hilal- of the several -hilals- during the restricted moons would be relevant for the -hajj- verse 2189 and 2197.
The -hajj- did not last the whole period of the restricted moons, but probably lasted 3 - 10 days - 2196, so a timing had to be chosen within the period of the restricted moons.Two relevant quotes from the introducing posting
--- May be some believers assume that the -hajj- is still to be performed because the verses about the Koranic -hajj- are in present tense.
The Koran has to be read carefully concerning the right time-frames.
The present tense refers to the time-frame of the presence of the -rasool- Mohammad. Not to the period after the departure of the messenger. Of course the instructions for the -hajj- were given in the present tense, because they had to be applied in the present tense of the believers in those days.
Verses 765, 773 and 785 for instance are also written in the present tense-form and refer to the messengers Hud, Saleh and Shuaib. Those messengers departed before the messenger Mohammad. ------ May be some believers think that it is particular that the Koran gives detailed information about the -hajj- while being only a temporarily event, linked to the time-frame of the presence of the -rasool-.
We should keep in mind that the system of -el hajj- was essential in uniting and informing the believers, also those who lived at greater distances.
It was necessary as a tool to create the foundation of Islam amongst the people and their societies. ---Verse 2227 - And proclaim that the people shall observe -el hajj-. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (?), they will come from the farthest locations.-
It seems that there is not a verse in the Koran that could overrule the Koranic statement that the -hajj- was to visit the -rasool-.
There are no contradictions in the Koran - verse 482.
When there is no living -rasool- there is no Islamic -hajj-.Salaam,
truthseeker171 -
Salaam Khalil
We should not read verses of the Koran in a selective way, you seem to be in denial about the fact that verse 2226 states that the -hajj- means to come to the living -rasool-.
Verse 2227 - And proclaim that the people shall observe -el hajj-. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (?), they will come from the farthest locations.-
If you want to promote the idea that the -hajj- is about visiting an empty building, then it would be good to realise that you change the content of verse 2227.
If you read verses 2230, 2233, 2234, 2236 and 2237 together with verse 2227 than you might see that verse 2227 refers to the -rasool- Mohammad.
Verse 2225 tells about the abuse of the Islamic safe-house by the infidels - this is within the time-frame of the life of Mohammad.
Verse 2226 refers to Abraham as the founder of an Islamic safe-house and the purpose of it.
Verse 2227 informs Mohammad and the believers about the Islamic -hajj-, a conference with the living -rasool-.You seem to be in denial about verse 2225, this verse introduces the subject and gives thereby the right time-frame.
You wrote
---According to the Qur?aan the Prophet Muhammad overtook the city of MECCA by means of war, with multitude of his followers alongside with him. He, i.e., Muhammad, did not have to call upon the people to come to HAJJ pilgrimage at all. ---It is an assumption of you that all the believers lived with the -rasool- in Mekka, according to most historical sources the prophet lived in Medina also after taking the city of Mekka. During the life-time of Mohammad believers where spread over large distances already.
I advice you to rethink your assumption that the prophet did not call for the -hajj- and thereby would deny a clear order from the Koran.
We should be careful in these matters.You wrote
--- In 2197 GOD informs us that the MONTHS of HAJJ pilgrimage are certain specified months of the launar year. This tells us that the HAJJ is to be performed during certain scheduled months on a regular basis, each and every year. ---Verse 2197 informs that the -hajj- is within the time-frame of the restricted moons - full stop.
You do not need to give your own additions to this verse about the lunar year or that the -hajj- is each and every year.
Verses 105, 1712 and 1247-49 clearly indicate that the solar year is Koranic.
Nowhere in the Koran there is a verse that states that the -hajj- should continue in another form after the departure of the -rasool-.
The Koran does not mention visiting an empty building - a strange male dresscode - throwing stones at some pillars and so on.The Koranic -hajj- probably lasted 3 to 10 days - 2196, so there had to be a timing within the time-frame of the four moons - 2197.
The event of the Koranic -hajj- was not a private visit to an empty building, but a conference with the -rasool-.
During this -hajj- there were special rulings for the foodsupply, the offering of the cattle - 2236, 597.
People had to be in a restricted state - 2197.
So it was a communal event - at special days within the four full moons, to be decided by the living -rasool-.Salaam and greetings,
truthseeker171 -
Salaam Dear truthseeker171,
We should not read verses of the Koran in a selective way, you seem to be in denial about the fact that verse 2226 states that the -hajj- means to come to the living -rasool-.
That is your personal pre meditated assumption.
Verse 2227 - And proclaim that the people shall observe -el hajj-. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (?), they will come from the farthest locations.-
As I said before 2227 directs the Prophet Abraham, NOT Muhammad to, for the FIRST TIME; call upon the people to come to HAJJ pilgrimage.
If you want to promote the idea that the -hajj- is about visiting an empty building, then it would be good to realise that you change the content of verse 2227.
HAJJ is not about visiting an empty building. HAJJ is about the whole complete set of rituals GOD has commanded us as HIS servants / subjects to go there and commemorate HIM in worship and obedience. We ought to go and perform the HAJJ rituals if we can afford to do so. Again, it is GOD?S UNDISPUTABLE RITHT UPON US. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, PERIOD.
Verse 2227 informs Mohammad and the believers about the Islamic -hajj-, a conference with the living -rasool-.
The duty of the rasool / messenger is to deliver the message and teach and direct the people to follow the message correctly. Afterwards it is the message itself that MUST rule and guide, NOT the MORTAL messenger. Again, the messenger?s duty is only to set precedence for the people in following the message.
You wrote
---According to the Qur?aan the Prophet Muhammad overtook the city of MECCA by means of war, with multitude of his followers alongside with him. He, i.e., Muhammad, did not have to call upon the people to come to HAJJ pilgrimage at all.Long before and also at the time of Muhammad all the Islamic rituals were being practiced by the people of Arabia. The point is that those people throughout the history after the Prophet Abraham, started to go astray and mixed the pure monotheistic Islamic practices with polytheistic innovations, just like the present day, and corrupted the RELIGION GOD. Muhammad was not the bringer of Islam. In the Qur?aan time and time again both Muhammad and the believers are all commanded to FOLLOW THE RELIGON OF ABRAHAM, because he was not among the polytheists / MUSHRIKS. So, Muhammad cannot be the subject of the verse 22;27, Abraham was the one.
You wrote
--- In 2197 GOD informs us that the MONTHS of HAJJ pilgrimage are certain specified months of the launar year. This tells us that the HAJJ is to be performed during certain scheduled months on a regular basis, each and every year. ---
Verse 2197 informs that the -hajj- is within the time-frame of the restricted moons - full stop.So! NO difference between yours and my understanding up to here!
You do not need to give your own additions to this verse about the lunar year or that the -hajj- is each and every year.
That is just common sense drawn out of the Qur?aanic verses regarding the matter.
Verses 105, 1712 and 1247-49 clearly indicate that the solar year is Koranic.
I did not say that it isn?t. All I say is that the LUNAR CALENDAR is the RULE in the Qur?aan. The solar year mentioned is just to point out the history of other nations, NOT the affairs of the MUSLIM community in Arabia at the time. Historically the Arabs were dealing with the LUNAR rather than the solar year.
The Koranic -hajj- probably lasted 3 to 10 days - 2196, so there had to be a timing within the time-frame of the four moons - 2197.
According to the Qur?aan months of performing HAJJ are FOUR SACRED CONSECUTIVE months, starting with the last lunar month, i.e. the month of DZIL HIJJAH.
Peace,
Khalil -
Salaam Ayisha
It might be good to read the verses concerned again.
Verse 2227 - And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men ... -.
The Koranic -hajj- probably lasted 3 to 10 days - 2196, so there had to be a timing within the time-frame of the four moons - 2197.
according to Allah it appears to be anytime you can get there in those monthsThe event of the Koranic -hajj- was not a private visit to an empty building, but a conference with the -rasool-.
During this -hajj- there were special rulings for the foodsupply, the offering of the cattle - 2236, 597.
People had to be in a restricted state - 2197.
So it was a communal event - at special days within the four full moons, to be decided by the -rasool-.
The instructions for this 'communal event' are given by Allah. The purpose of Hajj is to worship Allah at the House annually if you are able. The rulings regarding food were what you CANNOT eat during the time you are at your purest and cleanest because you are visiting ALLAH's House to worship Allah, not to have a conference with the prophet and that is why you are in a restricted state ie, your purest in mind and body, to worship Allah. The offering of cattle is offering to Allah, not to anyone else, its a sacrifice to God which has been going on since day one and He is instructing you how.The decisions of the Saudi authorities seem to be less relevant, the decision about the -hajj- was only to be taken by the living -rasool-, verse 2227.
But in any case we can not deny following verseVerse 928 - O you who believe, the idol worshippers are unclean; they shall not be permitted to approach the -restricted masjid- after this year. If you fear loss of income, God will shower you with His provisions, in accordance with His will. God is Omniscient, Most Wise. -
So according to the Koran after a certain year the idol worshippers were not allowed to approach the -restricted masjid-, this was an element of the -hajj-.
I am not talking about idol worshippers I am talking about Christians and Jews that follow the Book of Allah and the prophets that Allah sent them whom Allah says are BROTHERS in religion to Muslims. Can they do hajj? Do you know that as a convert I would have to re-do my shahada as I have no papers from when I did it and if i didnt do the Sunni shahada i would be refused even a visa to Saudi? They are restricting all the people Allah said it was open to. The original place of pilgrimage was Jerusalem which both Jews and Christians made pilgrimage to, then along come the Muslims and we have Crusades, fighting and bloodshed for the Mosque of God because MAN decided HE should decide who it belongs to. It belongs to GOD and no one should be refused entry to the House of God according to Quran. They are believers.I agree with you that it was the messengers duty to proclaim the -hajj-, but since the last human messenger has departed - the Islamic -hajj- can not be proclaimed anymore.
As you quoted verse 2227 - And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men they will come to thee....-.
The -hajj- was to visit the living -rasool-, not for walking around an empty building.The verse is clear to me its speaking of Abraham, not Muhammed. Abraham declared the hajj to be done at the Sacred Mosque annually during the specified months and yes you are to circle an empty building. There were many before you that didnt understand visiting an empty building so they filled it with idols so they felt like they had something to visit.
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Salaam Khalil
You are still in denial about verse 2225, this verse tells about the abuse of the Islamic safe-house by the infidels - this is within the time-frame of the life of Mohammad. This is the time-frame of verses 2230, 2233, 2234, 2236 as well. This is decisive for the time-frame of verse 2227.
Anyway I ask you to face the Koranic fact - verse 2227 the -hajj- was to the living -rasool-.
Verse 2227 - And proclaim that the people shall observe -el hajj-. They will come to you ... -
When this was an assigment to Abraham, it surely was to Mohammad as well, in following the religion of Abraham - verse 395.You wrote
--- I did not say that it isn?t. All I say is that the LUNAR CALENDAR is the RULE in the Qur?aan. The solar year mentioned is just to point out the history of other nations, NOT the affairs of the MUSLIM community in Arabia at the time. Historically the Arabs were dealing with the LUNAR rather than the solar year. ---I advice you to accept the Koranic verses as they are and that you do not make your own assumptions or from others as guidelines.
Verses 105, 1712 and 1247-49 clearly indicate that the solar year is Koranic, there is no mentioning of other nations or history.
Who are your trying to correct here, by stating that the lunar year still is the rule in the Koran?You wrote
--- HAJJ is about the whole complete set of rituals GOD has commanded us as HIS servants / subjects to go there ---What is according to you the complete set of rituals for the -hajj-?
Greetings and salaam,
truthseeker171 -
Salaam Ayisha
What about verse 2225? This verse tells about the abuse of the Islamic safe-house by the infidels - this is within the time-frame of the life of Mohammad. This is the same time-frame of verses 2230, 2233, 2234, 2236. This seems to pin-point the time-frame of verse 2227.
The -hajj- according to the Koran was to the living -rasool-.
Verse 2227 - And proclaim that the people shall observe -el hajj-. They will come to you ... -
When this was an assigment to Abraham, it surely was to Mohammad as well, in following the religion of Abraham - verse 395.Can you show me a verse in the Koran that states that the -hajj- is not to visit the living -rasool?
Salaam,
truthseeker171 -
Salaam Khalil
You are still in denial about verse 2225, this verse tells about the abuse of the Islamic safe-house by the infidels - this is within the time-frame of the life of Mohammad. This is the time-frame of verses 2230, 2233, 2234, 2236 as well. This is decisive for the time-frame of verse 2227.
Salam truthseeker, I dont see how 2225 is in the 'time-frame' of Muhammed. 2217-25 are general, all time, this is what happened/will happen 2226 then starts about Abraham. This message isnt just FOR or BY Muhammed its for all mankind including the UNbelievers and especially the UNbelievers. The abuse of the Kabaa started a long time before Muhammed.
-
Salaam truthseeker171,
You wrote
--- HAJJ is about the whole complete set of rituals GOD has commanded us as HIS servants / subjects to go there ---What is according to you the complete set of rituals for the -hajj-?
Pilgrimage Hajj & `Umrah
Once in a lifetime, Hajj and
Umrah are decreed for those who can afford it. Pilgrimage commemorates Abraham's exemplary submission to God, and must be observed during the four Sacred Months -Zul-Hijjah, Muharram, Safar, & RabiI (12th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd months) (2197; 92, 36). `Umrah can be observed any time. Like all other duties in Islam, Hajj has been distorted. Most Muslims observe Hajj only during a few days in Zul-Hijjah, and they consider Rajab, Zul-Qi'dah, Zul-Hijjah, and Muharram (7th, 11th, 12th, 1st months) to be the Sacred Months. This is a distortion that is strongly condemned (937).The pilgrimage begins with a bath or shower, followed by a state of sanctity called "Ihraam," where the male pilgrim wears seamless sheets of material, and the woman wears a modest dress (2196). Throughout Hajj, the pilgrim abstains from sexual intercourse, vanities such as shaving and cutting the hair, arguments, misconduct, and bad language (2197). Cleanliness, bathing, and regular hygiene practices are encouraged. Upon arrival at the Sacred Mosque in Mecca, the pilgrim walks around the Ka`bah seven times, while glorifying and praising God (2125, 2226-29). The common formula is "Labbayka Allaahumma Labbayk" (My God, I have responded to You). "Labbayka Laa Shareeka Laka Labbayk" (I have responded to You, and I proclaim that there is no other god besides You; I have responded to You).
The next step is to walk the distance between the knolls of Safa and Marwah seven times, with occasional trotting (215. This completes the `Umrah portion of the pilgrimage.
The pilgrim then goes to `Arafat to spend a day of worship, meditation, and glorification of God, from dawn to sunset (219. After sunset, the pilgrim goes to Muzdalifah where the Night Prayer is observed, and 21 pebbles are picked up for the symbolic stoning of Satan at Mina.
From Muzdalifah, the pilgrim goes to Mina to spend two or three days (2203). On the first morning at Mina, the pilgrim offers an animal sacrifice to feed the poor and to commemorate God's intervention to save Ismail (37107, The stoning ceremonies symbolize rejection of Satan's polytheism and are done by throwing seven pebbles at each of three stations, while glorifying God (1534). The pilgrim then returns to Mecca and observes a farewell circumvolution of the Ka`bah seven times.
Unfortunately, most of today's Muslim pilgrims make it a custom to visit the prophet Muhammad's tomb where they commit the most flagrant acts of idolatry and thus nullify their Hajj.
The Quran consistently talks about "The Sacred Mosque," while today's Muslims talk about "The Two Sacred Mosques!" In a glaring act of idolatry, the Muslims have set up Muhammad's tomb as another "Sacred Mosque!" This is a blasphemous violation of the Quran, and, ironically, even violates Hadith. Hadith book as recorded this Hadith;"God has cursed the Jews and Christians for turning the tombs of their prophets into mosques."
Peace,
Khalil -
Salaam Ayisha
What about verse 2225? This verse tells about the abuse of the Islamic safe-house by the infidels - this is within the time-frame of the life of Mohammad. This is the same time-frame of verses 2230, 2233, 2234, 2236. This seems to pin-point the time-frame of verse 2227.
The -hajj- according to the Koran was to the living -rasool-.
Verse 2227 - And proclaim that the people shall observe -el hajj-. They will come to you ... -
When this was an assigment to Abraham, it surely was to Mohammad as well, in following the religion of Abraham - verse 395.Can you show me a verse in the Koran that states that the -hajj- is not to visit the living -rasool?
Salaam,
truthseeker171002.125
YUSUFALI Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).002.158
YUSUFALI Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of Allah. So if those who visit the House in the Season or at other times, should compass them round, it is no sin in them. And if any one obeyeth his own impulse to good,- be sure that Allah is He Who recogniseth and knoweth.002.196
YUSUFALI And complete the Hajj or 'umra in the service of Allah. But if ye are prevented (From completing it), send an offering for sacrifice, such as ye may find, and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches the place of sacrifice. And if any of you is ill, or has an ailment in his scalp, (Necessitating shaving), (He should) in compensation either fast, or feed the poor, or offer sacrifice; and when ye are in peaceful conditions (again), if any one wishes to continue the 'umra on to the hajj, He must make an offering, such as he can afford, but if he cannot afford it, He should fast three days during the hajj and seven days on his return, Making ten days in all. This is for those whose household is not in (the precincts of) the Sacred Mosque. And fear Allah, and know that Allah Is strict in punishment.002.197
YUSUFALI For Hajj are the months well known. If any one undertakes that duty therein, Let there be no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling in the Hajj. And whatever good ye do, (be sure) Allah knoweth it. And take a provision (With you) for the journey, but the best of provisions is right conduct. So fear Me, o ye that are wise.002.198
YUSUFALI It is no crime in you if ye seek of the bounty of your Lord (during pilgrimage). Then when ye pour down from (Mount) Arafat, celebrate the praises of Allah at the Sacred Monument, and celebrate His praises as He has directed you, even though, before this, ye went astray.003.097
YUSUFALI In it are Signs Manifest; (for example), the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; Pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah,- those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith, Allah stands not in need of any of His creatures.005.001
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! fulfil (all) obligations. Lawful unto you (for food) are all four-footed animals, with the exceptions named But animals of the chase are forbidden while ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb for Allah doth command according to His will and plan.005.002
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! Violate not the sanctity of the symbols of Allah, nor of the sacred month, nor of the animals brought for sacrifice, nor the garlands that mark out such animals, nor the people resorting to the sacred house, seeking of the bounty and good pleasure of their Lord. But when ye are clear of the sacred precincts and of pilgrim garb, ye may hunt and let not the hatred of some people in (once) shutting you out of the Sacred Mosque lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour fear Allah for Allah is strict in punishment.005.095
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! Kill not game while in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb. If any of you doth so intentionally, the compensation is an offering, brought to the Ka'ba, of a domestic animal equivalent to the one he killed, as adjudged by two just men among you; or by way of atonement, the feeding of the indigent; or its equivalent in fasts that he may taste of the penalty of his deed. Allah forgives what is past for repetition Allah will exact from him the penalty. For Allah is Exalted, and Lord of Retribution.005.096
YUSUFALI Lawful to you is the pursuit of water-game and its use for food,- for the benefit of yourselves and those who travel; but forbidden is the pursuit of land-game;- as long as ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb. And fear Allah, to Whom ye shall be gathered back.005.097
YUSUFALI Allah made the Ka'ba, the Sacred House, an asylum of security for men, as also the Sacred Months, the animals for offerings, and the garlands that mark them That ye may know that Allah hath knowledge of what is in the heavens and on earth and that Allah is well acquainted with all things.009.003
YUSUFALI And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.there is nothing to imply it is anything to do with a conference with any prophet and everything to do with a RITUAL ordained by Allah. It is a pilgrimage and one should try to do this pilgrimage in the months specified (for Hajj) but one can do this pilgrimage at any time, see 2125 and 2158.
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Peace, abdelquran (and others).
<quote>
The ?you? automatically means messenger? There?s no proof of this, sorry. If God knows that people would read his book, then surely he?ll know they?d be addressed as ?you?.
</quote>(Hope I quoted correctly, my apologies for my being new here)
Your arguement here holds no ground, you imply that the verse is towards the people.
But if it's towards the believers and it says they will come to you, which group other than the believers went on the hadj? -
Nice try. This is the logical fallacy known as The Burden of Proof.
On the other hand, alot of ideas about hadj come from hadith.
I do not think you've looked into the subject from only a Quranic point of view, if you would, you might just agree.
If you follow booklets next to the Quran, discussing this case with you might proof a waste of time. -
Truthseeker I agree with you partially,
Hajj is an annual harvest festival perfected by God. Many Indian cultures still celebrate the harvest festival at a local level... i think there can be many such Hajjs organised by local leaders. Its a cultural event to praise and remind God, Quran talks about Hajj at the time of Prophet and instruct him how to celebrate it the best way with peace.
God says Hajj is only for those who afford... So Hajj is not important but the peace and the remembrance of God in Hajj is important. So its a festival started before the time of Prophet Ibrahim that is perfected by God for celebrating it with peace.
I think God gave so much importance to Hajj... because it involves scores of people gathering at a common place and so theres always room for violence unlawful activities so the instructions were given to Mohammed to make the festival a peaceful event.
The current Hajj, if its really a peaceful event without problems, accidents , hardships and idol worshiping(increasing ego) then i think no problem in participating it.
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Salaam Khalil
From your answer I can see that you have accepted human writings as authority next to the Koran.
From a believer to a believer I advice you to take the perfect and complete Koran as your true guidance.
Verses 638 - 1689 - 6114 - 6115 - 931 can be helpful in this essential matter.The pilgrimage begins with a bath or shower, followed by a state of sanctity called "Ihraam," where the male pilgrim wears seamless sheets of material, and the woman wears a modest dress (2196). Throughout Hajj, the pilgrim abstains from sexual intercourse, vanities such as shaving and cutting the hair, arguments, misconduct, and bad language (2197). Cleanliness, bathing, and regular hygiene practices are encouraged. Upon arrival at the Sacred Mosque in Mecca, the pilgrim walks around the Ka`bah seven times, while glorifying and praising God (2125, 2226-29). The common formula is "Labbayka Allaahumma Labbayk" (My God, I have responded to You). "Labbayka Laa Shareeka Laka Labbayk" (I have responded to You, and I proclaim that there is no other god besides You; I have responded to You).
The next step is to walk the distance between the knolls of Safa and Marwah seven times, with occasional trotting (2158). This completes the `Umrah portion of the pilgrimage.
The pilgrim then goes to `Arafat to spend a day of worship, meditation, and glorification of God, from dawn to sunset (2198). After sunset, the pilgrim goes to Muzdalifah where the Night Prayer is observed, and 21 pebbles are picked up for the symbolic stoning of Satan at Mina.
From Muzdalifah, the pilgrim goes to Mina to spend two or three days (2203). On the first morning at Mina, the pilgrim offers an animal sacrifice to feed the poor and to commemorate God's intervention to save Ismail (37107, The stoning ceremonies symbolize rejection of Satan's polytheism and are done by throwing seven pebbles at each of three stations, while glorifying God (1534). The pilgrim then returns to Mecca and observes a farewell circumvolution of the Ka`bah seven times.
Some questions concerning this matter
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How do you know that the male pilgrim has to wear seamless sheets?
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How do you know that the pilgrim should walk around the Ka`bah seven times?
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How do you know that the common formula is Labbayka Allaahumma Labbayk?
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How do you know that the pilgrim has to walk the distance between the knolls of Safa and Marwah seven times?
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How do you know following? After sunset, the pilgrim goes to Muzdalifah where the Night Prayer is observed?
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How do you know that 21 pebbles are picked up for the symbolic stoning of Satan at Mina.
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How can you know that the stoning ceremonies symbolize rejection of Satan's polytheism and are done by throwing seven pebbles at each of three stations?
Greetings and salaam,
truthseeker171 -