The Islamic -hajj- was only during the lifetime of the -rasool-.

kgwithnob

Salaam truthseeker171,

You wrote
--- HAJJ is about the whole complete set of rituals GOD has commanded us as HIS servants / subjects to go there ---

What is according to you the complete set of rituals for the -hajj-?

Pilgrimage Hajj & `Umrah

Once in a lifetime, Hajj and Umrah are decreed for those who can afford it. Pilgrimage commemorates Abraham's exemplary submission to God, and must be observed during the four Sacred Months -Zul-Hijjah, Muharram, Safar, & Rabi I (12th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd months) (2197; 92, 36). `Umrah can be observed any time. Like all other duties in Islam, Hajj has been distorted. Most Muslims observe Hajj only during a few days in Zul-Hijjah, and they consider Rajab, Zul-Qi'dah, Zul-Hijjah, and Muharram (7th, 11th, 12th, 1st months) to be the Sacred Months. This is a distortion that is strongly condemned (937).

The pilgrimage begins with a bath or shower, followed by a state of sanctity called "Ihraam," where the male pilgrim wears seamless sheets of material, and the woman wears a modest dress (2196). Throughout Hajj, the pilgrim abstains from sexual intercourse, vanities such as shaving and cutting the hair, arguments, misconduct, and bad language (2197). Cleanliness, bathing, and regular hygiene practices are encouraged. Upon arrival at the Sacred Mosque in Mecca, the pilgrim walks around the Ka`bah seven times, while glorifying and praising God (2125, 2226-29). The common formula is "Labbayka Allaahumma Labbayk" (My God, I have responded to You). "Labbayka Laa Shareeka Laka Labbayk" (I have responded to You, and I proclaim that there is no other god besides You; I have responded to You).

The next step is to walk the distance between the knolls of Safa and Marwah seven times, with occasional trotting (215. This completes the `Umrah portion of the pilgrimage.

The pilgrim then goes to `Arafat to spend a day of worship, meditation, and glorification of God, from dawn to sunset (219. After sunset, the pilgrim goes to Muzdalifah where the Night Prayer is observed, and 21 pebbles are picked up for the symbolic stoning of Satan at Mina.

From Muzdalifah, the pilgrim goes to Mina to spend two or three days (2203). On the first morning at Mina, the pilgrim offers an animal sacrifice to feed the poor and to commemorate God's intervention to save Ismail (37107, The stoning ceremonies symbolize rejection of Satan's polytheism and are done by throwing seven pebbles at each of three stations, while glorifying God (1534). The pilgrim then returns to Mecca and observes a farewell circumvolution of the Ka`bah seven times.

Unfortunately, most of today's Muslim pilgrims make it a custom to visit the prophet Muhammad's tomb where they commit the most flagrant acts of idolatry and thus nullify their Hajj.

The Quran consistently talks about "The Sacred Mosque," while today's Muslims talk about "The Two Sacred Mosques!" In a glaring act of idolatry, the Muslims have set up Muhammad's tomb as another "Sacred Mosque!" This is a blasphemous violation of the Quran, and, ironically, even violates Hadith. Hadith book as recorded this Hadith;"God has cursed the Jews and Christians for turning the tombs of their prophets into mosques."

Peace,
Khalil

Jack

can you show me a verse in the Koran that states that the -hajj- is not to visit the living -rasool?

Nice try. This is the logical fallacy known as The Burden of Proof.

Ayisha

Salaam Ayisha

What about verse 2225? This verse tells about the abuse of the Islamic safe-house by the infidels - this is within the time-frame of the life of Mohammad. This is the same time-frame of verses 2230, 2233, 2234, 2236. This seems to pin-point the time-frame of verse 2227.

The -hajj- according to the Koran was to the living -rasool-.
Verse 2227 - And proclaim that the people shall observe -el hajj-. They will come to you ... -
When this was an assigment to Abraham, it surely was to Mohammad as well, in following the religion of Abraham - verse 395.

Can you show me a verse in the Koran that states that the -hajj- is not to visit the living -rasool?

Salaam,
truthseeker171

002.125
YUSUFALI Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).

002.158
YUSUFALI Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of Allah. So if those who visit the House in the Season or at other times, should compass them round, it is no sin in them. And if any one obeyeth his own impulse to good,- be sure that Allah is He Who recogniseth and knoweth.

002.196
YUSUFALI And complete the Hajj or 'umra in the service of Allah. But if ye are prevented (From completing it), send an offering for sacrifice, such as ye may find, and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches the place of sacrifice. And if any of you is ill, or has an ailment in his scalp, (Necessitating shaving), (He should) in compensation either fast, or feed the poor, or offer sacrifice; and when ye are in peaceful conditions (again), if any one wishes to continue the 'umra on to the hajj, He must make an offering, such as he can afford, but if he cannot afford it, He should fast three days during the hajj and seven days on his return, Making ten days in all. This is for those whose household is not in (the precincts of) the Sacred Mosque. And fear Allah, and know that Allah Is strict in punishment.

002.197
YUSUFALI For Hajj are the months well known. If any one undertakes that duty therein, Let there be no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling in the Hajj. And whatever good ye do, (be sure) Allah knoweth it. And take a provision (With you) for the journey, but the best of provisions is right conduct. So fear Me, o ye that are wise.

002.198
YUSUFALI It is no crime in you if ye seek of the bounty of your Lord (during pilgrimage). Then when ye pour down from (Mount) Arafat, celebrate the praises of Allah at the Sacred Monument, and celebrate His praises as He has directed you, even though, before this, ye went astray.

003.097
YUSUFALI In it are Signs Manifest; (for example), the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; Pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah,- those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith, Allah stands not in need of any of His creatures.

005.001
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! fulfil (all) obligations. Lawful unto you (for food) are all four-footed animals, with the exceptions named But animals of the chase are forbidden while ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb for Allah doth command according to His will and plan.

005.002
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! Violate not the sanctity of the symbols of Allah, nor of the sacred month, nor of the animals brought for sacrifice, nor the garlands that mark out such animals, nor the people resorting to the sacred house, seeking of the bounty and good pleasure of their Lord. But when ye are clear of the sacred precincts and of pilgrim garb, ye may hunt and let not the hatred of some people in (once) shutting you out of the Sacred Mosque lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour fear Allah for Allah is strict in punishment.

005.095
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! Kill not game while in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb. If any of you doth so intentionally, the compensation is an offering, brought to the Ka'ba, of a domestic animal equivalent to the one he killed, as adjudged by two just men among you; or by way of atonement, the feeding of the indigent; or its equivalent in fasts that he may taste of the penalty of his deed. Allah forgives what is past for repetition Allah will exact from him the penalty. For Allah is Exalted, and Lord of Retribution.

005.096
YUSUFALI Lawful to you is the pursuit of water-game and its use for food,- for the benefit of yourselves and those who travel; but forbidden is the pursuit of land-game;- as long as ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb. And fear Allah, to Whom ye shall be gathered back.

005.097
YUSUFALI Allah made the Ka'ba, the Sacred House, an asylum of security for men, as also the Sacred Months, the animals for offerings, and the garlands that mark them That ye may know that Allah hath knowledge of what is in the heavens and on earth and that Allah is well acquainted with all things.

009.003
YUSUFALI And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

there is nothing to imply it is anything to do with a conference with any prophet and everything to do with a RITUAL ordained by Allah. It is a pilgrimage and one should try to do this pilgrimage in the months specified (for Hajj) but one can do this pilgrimage at any time, see 2125 and 2158.

Maserati

Peace, abdelquran (and others).

<quote>
The ?you? automatically means messenger? There?s no proof of this, sorry. If God knows that people would read his book, then surely he?ll know they?d be addressed as ?you?.
</quote>

(Hope I quoted correctly, my apologies for my being new here)

Your arguement here holds no ground, you imply that the verse is towards the people.
But if it's towards the believers and it says they will come to you, which group other than the believers went on the hadj?

Maserati

Nice try. This is the logical fallacy known as The Burden of Proof.

On the other hand, alot of ideas about hadj come from hadith.
I do not think you've looked into the subject from only a Quranic point of view, if you would, you might just agree.
If you follow booklets next to the Quran, discussing this case with you might proof a waste of time.

amin

Truthseeker I agree with you partially,

Hajj is an annual harvest festival perfected by God. Many Indian cultures still celebrate the harvest festival at a local level... i think there can be many such Hajjs organised by local leaders. Its a cultural event to praise and remind God, Quran talks about Hajj at the time of Prophet and instruct him how to celebrate it the best way with peace.

God says Hajj is only for those who afford... So Hajj is not important but the peace and the remembrance of God in Hajj is important. So its a festival started before the time of Prophet Ibrahim that is perfected by God for celebrating it with peace.

I think God gave so much importance to Hajj... because it involves scores of people gathering at a common place and so theres always room for violence unlawful activities so the instructions were given to Mohammed to make the festival a peaceful event.

The current Hajj, if its really a peaceful event without problems, accidents , hardships and idol worshiping(increasing ego) then i think no problem in participating it.

truthseeker171

Salaam Khalil

From your answer I can see that you have accepted human writings as authority next to the Koran.
From a believer to a believer I advice you to take the perfect and complete Koran as your true guidance.
Verses 638 - 1689 - 6114 - 6115 - 931 can be helpful in this essential matter.

The pilgrimage begins with a bath or shower, followed by a state of sanctity called "Ihraam," where the male pilgrim wears seamless sheets of material, and the woman wears a modest dress (2196). Throughout Hajj, the pilgrim abstains from sexual intercourse, vanities such as shaving and cutting the hair, arguments, misconduct, and bad language (2197). Cleanliness, bathing, and regular hygiene practices are encouraged. Upon arrival at the Sacred Mosque in Mecca, the pilgrim walks around the Ka`bah seven times, while glorifying and praising God (2125, 2226-29). The common formula is "Labbayka Allaahumma Labbayk" (My God, I have responded to You). "Labbayka Laa Shareeka Laka Labbayk" (I have responded to You, and I proclaim that there is no other god besides You; I have responded to You).

The next step is to walk the distance between the knolls of Safa and Marwah seven times, with occasional trotting (2158). This completes the `Umrah portion of the pilgrimage.

The pilgrim then goes to `Arafat to spend a day of worship, meditation, and glorification of God, from dawn to sunset (2198). After sunset, the pilgrim goes to Muzdalifah where the Night Prayer is observed, and 21 pebbles are picked up for the symbolic stoning of Satan at Mina.

From Muzdalifah, the pilgrim goes to Mina to spend two or three days (2203). On the first morning at Mina, the pilgrim offers an animal sacrifice to feed the poor and to commemorate God's intervention to save Ismail (37107, The stoning ceremonies symbolize rejection of Satan's polytheism and are done by throwing seven pebbles at each of three stations, while glorifying God (1534). The pilgrim then returns to Mecca and observes a farewell circumvolution of the Ka`bah seven times.

Some questions concerning this matter

How do you know that the male pilgrim has to wear seamless sheets?
How do you know that the pilgrim should walk around the Ka`bah seven times?
How do you know that the common formula is Labbayka Allaahumma Labbayk?
How do you know that the pilgrim has to walk the distance between the knolls of Safa and Marwah seven times?
How do you know following? After sunset, the pilgrim goes to Muzdalifah where the Night Prayer is observed?
How do you know that 21 pebbles are picked up for the symbolic stoning of Satan at Mina.
How can you know that the stoning ceremonies symbolize rejection of Satan's polytheism and are done by throwing seven pebbles at each of three stations?

Greetings and salaam,
truthseeker171

kgwithnob

Salaam Khalil

From your answer I can see that you have accepted human writings as authority next to the Koran.
From a believer to a believer I advice you to take the perfect and complete Koran as your true guidance.
Verses 638 - 1689 - 6114 - 6115 - 931 can be helpful in this essential matter.

Some questions concerning this matter

How do you know that the male pilgrim has to wear seamless sheets?
How do you know that the pilgrim should walk around the Ka`bah seven times?
How do you know that the common formula is Labbayka Allaahumma Labbayk?
How do you know that the pilgrim has to walk the distance between the knolls of Safa and Marwah seven times?
How do you know following? After sunset, the pilgrim goes to Muzdalifah where the Night Prayer is observed?
How do you know that 21 pebbles are picked up for the symbolic stoning of Satan at Mina.
How can you know that the stoning ceremonies symbolize rejection of Satan's polytheism and are done by throwing seven pebbles at each of three stations?

Greetings and salaam,
truthseeker171

Salaam dear truthseeker171,

I understand that you are trying to reinvent the wheel all over again from scratch. As I did explain before, Islam does not need reinvention. The WHEEL of Islam has been rolling pretty well from the start, long before the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). So do not try to nit pick on irrelevant and trivial issues. Your questions do not matter one way or another as long as the principles our belief are not corrupted. If you believe in and worship no god but ALLAH / GOD and do not associate anyone with HIM in worship; if you believe in the LAST DAY and the ULTIMATE JUDGMENT by GOD; and if you are leading a RIGHTEOUS CONSTRUCTIVE life of this world; then you should not worry about anything and or fear anyone. See 262 & 569. The rest is, as I said, TRIVIAL.

As the matter of fact it is pretty righteous to stay on the same level with the majority in practicing our religious rites in order to stay UNITED as one UMMAH. Just do not cross the boundaries set by GOD / ALLAH (SWT).

Below I've explained, in brief, the principal crossed boundaries by the SECTARIANS.

Muslims have no quarrels with the sectarians other than saying that the religion MUST be about the worship of GOD Alone. All we are saying to them is to stop idolizing the prophets and worship GOD alone. We are saying that the Shahaadah must be all about GOD Alone. We are saying to them not to mention anyone else in their prayers except GOD. We are saying to them not to call upon anyone else in their call to prayer/ADZAN, but GOD. We are saying not to implore anyone in your DU?AA?, but GOD alone. We are saying to them The Qur?aan is the ONLY source of religious guidance; do not use any other source like hadith, sunnah, rawaaya, and? alongside with The Qur?aan. We are telling them that there is only one SACRED mosque and that is the one in the city of Mecca with the KA?BAH right in the middle of its courtyard. We are saying to them that the months of performing HAJJ pilgrimage are the four consecutive sacred/HARAAM months. We are asking them to restore those FOUR months back; to minimize the hardship on the people trying to perform their GOD prescribed HAJJ pilgrimage. And finally, we are telling them not to make unlawful what GOD has not made unlawful and vice versa.

We are not declaring anything new. We are just propagating the practice of the faith according to The Qur?aan Alone. We are telling them to reform and repent and come back to The Qur?aan. That?s all. No reinvention at all.

Peace,
Khalil

Maserati

Salaam, Abdelquran.

To me it's obvious some verses in the Quran are not to be followed anymore, but tell us about history.
I bet you agree, or do you still slay unbelievers where you can find them?

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 95

truthseeker171

Salaam Khalil

I understand that you are trying to reinvent the wheel all over again from scratch. As I did explain before, Islam does not need reinvention. The WHEEL of Islam has been rolling pretty well from the start, long before the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). So do not try to nit pick on irrelevant and trivial issues.
As the matter of fact it is pretty righteous to stay on the same level with the majority in practicing our religious rites in order to stay UNITED as one UMMAH. Just do not cross the boundaries set by GOD / ALLAH (SWT).

It seems not to be up to you to decide what is a trivial issue.
The issues we are refering to, as for instance throwing stones to some pillars, are important enough to you to follow the ahadeeth of human beings in stead of the Koran.
The majority of the ummah is following ahadeeth - I advice you to be not one of them.
Verse 931 warns the believers - not to set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords ... be He glorified, high above having any partners -.
This is a clear boundary set by God.

We are saying to them The Qur?aan is the ONLY source of religious guidance; do not use any other source like hadith, sunnah, rawaaya, and? alongside with The Qur?aan.
We are not declaring anything new. We are just propagating the practice of the faith according to The Qur?aan Alone. We are telling them to reform and repent and come back to The Qur?aan. That?s all. No reinvention at all.

It is clear that you have accepted ahadeeth as a source next to the Koran in your description of the rites of the -hajj-.
Thereby you deny that the Koran is perfect and complete, verses 638 - 1689 - 6114 - 6115.

You seem to prefer your comfort zone of ahadeeth about the -hajj- instead accepting the clear wording of a crucial verse.
Verse 2227 - And proclaim that the people shall observe -el hajj-. They will come to you ... -
The word you indicates that the -hajj- is about to come to a person - the living -rasool-.

We should take every word and letter of the Koran serious and avoid to decide ourselves what is trivial or not.
We should not just pay lip-service to the important principle that the Koran is the only source for religious guidance.
I advice you to take some time for trying to realise what this principle truly means.
For all the followers of the Koran this is work in progress.

Greetings and salaam,
truthseeker171

truthseeker171

Salaam Ayisha

002.125
YUSUFALI Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).

This verse describes the establishment of an Islamic safe-house, there is not an unambiguous linkage to the -hajj-.

002.158
YUSUFALI Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of Allah. So if those who visit the House in the Season or at other times, should compass them round, it is no sin in them. And if any one obeyeth his own impulse to good,- be sure that Allah is He Who recogniseth and knoweth.

This verse relates to the time-frame of the -rasool- Mohammad, as can been seen from verse 142, the change of the qibla.
The words Safa and Marwa are researched, they can relate to the words cleansingprocess and implementation or animals and stones.
Anyway the meaning of two little hills in Mekka is not unambiguous stated.
This verse does not suggest that the -hajj- is not to the living -rasool-

002.196
YUSUFALI And complete the Hajj or 'umra in the service of Allah. But if ye are prevented (From completing it), send an offering for sacrifice, such as ye may find, and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches the place of sacrifice. And if any of you is ill, or has an ailment in his scalp, (Necessitating shaving), (He should) in compensation either fast, or feed the poor, or offer sacrifice; and when ye are in peaceful conditions (again), if any one wishes to continue the 'umra on to the hajj, He must make an offering, such as he can afford, but if he cannot afford it, He should fast three days during the hajj and seven days on his return, Making ten days in all. This is for those whose household is not in (the precincts of) the Sacred Mosque. And fear Allah, and know that Allah Is strict in punishment.