Was Omar ibn al-Khattab a Quranist?
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When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar bin Al-Khatttab, the Prophet said, "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray."
Selam
Its a little strange that the prophet will say let me write you a writting when according to sunni's and others the prophet was not literate according to them. Maybe he said 'let me say something to you and put it in writing so you will not go astray'. Also, what happened to obey God and obey the messenger? Too many contradictions in the hadiths I am affraid to say.
peace
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Selam
Its a little strange that the prophet will say let me write you a writting when according to sunni's and others the prophet was not literate according to them. Maybe he said 'let me say something to you and put it in writing so you will not go astray'. Also, what happened to obey God and obey the messenger? Too many contradictions in the hadiths I am affraid to say.
peace
yeah, I have seen more than 100 hard to believe hadith and contradictory hadith in the sahih bukhari Alone. There are more in muslim and Abu Dawood..
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Hi Sirius,
there are some other ahadeeth according to which Omar wrote down things he heard the prophet say and then tore them up later, saying that he could not be entirely sure if his memory had served him right.
I posted them in some thread, but can't for the life of me remember where ... confused
Also, Fatima Mernissi mentions in her book "The veil and the male elite" that Omar was not too fond of recounting ahadeeth
'Umar, who enjoyed an unparalleled influence on the Prophet and the Muslim community of yesterday (and still does today) because of his prestige as a man of politics, his boldness in military matters, his strong personality, and his horror of lying, avoided recounting Hadith. He was terrified at the idea of not being accurate. For that reason, 'Umar was one of those Companions who preferred to rely on their own judgement rather than trust their memory, which they considered dangerously fallible.
He was very irritated by the facile manner in which Abu Hurayra reeled off Hadith "'Umar al-Khattab," we can read in al-'Asqalani's biography of him, "is supposed to have remarked as follows about Abu Hurayra 'We have many things to say, but we are afraid to say them, and that man there has no restraint.'"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600242.150
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Muhammad Husayn Haykal
? Umar ibn al-Khattab once tried to deal with the problem of committing the Hadith to writing. The companions of the Prophet whom he consulted, encouraged him, but he was not quite sure whether he should proceed. One day, moved by God's inspiration, he made up his mind and announced "I wanted to have the traditions of the Prophet written down, but I fear that the Book of God might be encroached upon. Hence I shall not permit this to happen." He, therefore, changed his mind and instructed the Muslims throughout the provinces "Whoever has a document bearing a prophetic tradition, shall destroy it." The Hadith, therefore, continued to be transmitted orally and was not collected and written down until the period of al-Mamun. ?...
As to Umar, we learn on the authority of Ma'mar ibn Rashid, that during his caliphate, Umar once consulted the companions of the Prophet on the subject of codifying the Hadith. Everybody seconded the idea. Yet Umar continued to hesitate and pray to God for a whole month for guidance and enlightenment. Ultimately, he decided not to undertake the task, and said "Former peoples neglected the Divine Books and concentrated only on the conduct of the prophets; I do not want to set up the possibility of confusion between the Divine Qur?an and the Prophet's Hadith."
http//www.quranic.org/quran_article/11/attitude_of_the_four_caliphs_toward_the_hadiths.htm
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Muhammad Husayn Haykal
? Umar ibn al-Khattab once tried to deal with the problem of committing the Hadith to writing. The companions of the Prophet whom he consulted, encouraged him, but he was not quite sure whether he should proceed. One day, moved by God's inspiration, he made up his mind and announced "I wanted to have the traditions of the Prophet written down, but I fear that the Book of God might be encroached upon. Hence I shall not permit this to happen." He, therefore, changed his mind and instructed the Muslims throughout the provinces "Whoever has a document bearing a prophetic tradition, shall destroy it." The Hadith, therefore, continued to be transmitted orally and was not collected and written down until the period of al-Mamun. ?...
As to Umar, we learn on the authority of Ma'mar ibn Rashid, that during his caliphate, Umar once consulted the companions of the Prophet on the subject of codifying the Hadith. Everybody seconded the idea. Yet Umar continued to hesitate and pray to God for a whole month for guidance and enlightenment. Ultimately, he decided not to undertake the task, and said "Former peoples neglected the Divine Books and concentrated only on the conduct of the prophets; I do not want to set up the possibility of confusion between the Divine Qur?an and the Prophet's Hadith."
http//www.quranic.org/quran_article/11/attitude_of_the_four_caliphs_toward_the_hadiths.htm
Thanks Leyna, very thought-provoking responses. It intrigues me that most of the hadith collectors were similar in their attitude and made disclaimers about their hadith collecting yet they are propagated as absolute authority in this day and age. Didn't Omar actually strike Abu Hurayra when he suggested that Muhammad (s) be mentioned in the Shahada?
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Well Omar and everyone else among the companions can be safely called as 'Quranists' coz,
-they were the sahabis who followed the teachings of the Prophet-- which is the Quran- many of them by-hearted every single verse of the Quran
- they never propogated or wrote any teaching of the Prophet other than the Quran
Today though we would call such a person a "Quranist"... the actual term that was meant to be used is-- MUSLIM..
Unfortunately ofcourse... things have changed, thanx 2 our sunni n shia bros
-Harris
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Today though we would call such a person a "Quranist"... the actual term that was meant to be used is-- MUSLIM..
True Harris but I hope you understand the need to distinguish for clarification. I perhaps might just start using Muslim. I do in everyday life. Might be altogether more appropriate, I mean, we can't exactly expect to be called Muslims if we ourselves create and maintain a distinction.
Peace
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glad u agree ms. sirius... handshake
none of us need to refrain from using the words "muslim" or "islam".... infact i'd say we must do our bit to educate the world about "sunni & shia-terrorism"... voodoo coz that's wats happening today...v know tis, bt unfortunately the media labels it as 'islamic terror' and shows us all in a bad light.. >
the very reason i understand y many wud rather b known as Quranists angelpeace
harris -
I posted this in another section but none of the Sunnis flocked to it so this is a re-post in hopes there will be more of a discussion.
Volume 9, Book 92, Number 468
Narrated Ibn 'AbbasWhen the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar bin Al-Khatttab, the Prophet said, "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Quran, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while some of them said what 'Umar said. When they made much noise and differed greatly before the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their difference and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing that writing for them.
Not only does the Hadith imply a rejection of a request of the Messenger (s) and the fact that this was very wrong (by the reactions of the other Sahaba) but also implies Quranist sentiment.
A side note Voices were raised in the precence of the Prophet (s). Am I right in saying that the Quran condemns such a display?
Is there an alternative explanation to this events?
This sounds like a massive forgery intended to give some weight to ahadeeth as if to say "look, the prophet had some magical hadith and silly Umar the Quranist spoils it for all of us, so now all you buggers are gonna have to rely on the crappy ones we forged in Bukhari".
Think about this, you are Muhammad and you have finally delivered the message from THE LORD OF EXISTENCE, would you say "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray" after YOU have completely delivered a message from an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-hearing force?
If the quran itself states that it should guide the believers and lead the disbelievers into even more loss, do you think for a second that any of Muhammad's writings are gonna change this?
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Think about this, you are Muhammad and you have finally delivered the message from THE LORD OF EXISTENCE, would you say "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray" after YOU have completely delivered a message from an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-hearing force?
Very good point.