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I don't know yet, and it may be bad for me to say this since I don't know yet but umm...errr...I...uhh...think its...umm...good advice...if it says to withdraw from them...uh...period...when they are....uhhh...menstruating... &
Salaam.
LOL. Well, many women tend to be extremely grumpy when they go through their menstrual cycle, and you may want to withdraw from them so you won't be put in a frustrating situation > >
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Salaam.
LOL. Well, many women tend to be extremely grumpy when they go through their menstrual cycle, and you may want to withdraw from them so you won't be put in a frustrating situation >D >D
It means do not have sex with them! Ayesha
The advice is more in the nature to be considerate.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.222.gif
And they people ask you, the Messenger about the menstruation cycles .
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.222a.gif
You tell them, "That is a little vexation . For this reason therefore, you people consciously incline yourselves to refrain/restrain "performing sexually-enter semen" with your wives when they are in the state of menstruation periods.Particle "Fa" denotes cause and effect-for that reason. And Verb is imperative, second person, plural, Form VIII. The basic meanings of form VIII is refleive causitive, indicating more effort on the part of the subject of the verb. And the Root of the Verb has the perception/neanings of getting away from a job, removed away and perhaps metonymically not to let the semen enter the uterus. What meanings are intended has been made clear by
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.222b.gif
And you should not associate with them till such time they have exhausted/drained out.Verb is in jussive mood with prohibitive La. And the subject of other verb are wives in periods.
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Say "It is A-Dh-Y, so retire yourselves (sexually) from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are Tay-ha-Ra (it). Then when they are Tay-ha-Ra (it), then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the T-W-B (masculine plural) and He loves those who Tay-ha-Ra (masculine plural).
Ok it says retire from them (sexually) but it also says do not approach them, so the Qu'ran is giving two pieces of advice/legislation? Don't have sex with them and leave them alone as well, correct?
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peace Ak85,
Possibly, but if you feel it is two commands, why do you feel one is repealed yet the other is not
Say "It is A-Dh-Y, so retire yourselves (sexually) from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are Tay-ha-Ra (it). Then when they are Tay-ha-Ra (it), then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the T-W-B (masculine plural) and He loves those who Tay-ha-Ra (masculine plural).
Also, you may use corpus.quran.com for example and see if there is a difference in meaning of the terms used.
I re-read the verse, eliminating the "and do not approach them" and "(sexually)" as this is an inserted explanatory note, just to see how it would read, i.e.
Say "It is A-Dh-Y, so retire yourselves from the women during the menstruation until they are Tay-ha-Ra (it). Then when they are Tay-ha-Ra (it), then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the T-W-B (masculine plural) and He loves those who Tay-ha-Ra (masculine plural).
With it, it seems to be an emphasis, for effect, or used to specify the type of "retire/withdraw yourselves". As "approach them" can be used to mean in a sexual manner, e.g. 2187.
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Say "It is A-Dh-Y, so retire yourselves (sexually) from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are Tay-ha-Ra (it). Then when they are Tay-ha-Ra (it), then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the T-W-B (masculine plural) and He loves those who Tay-ha-Ra (masculine plural).
Ok it says retire from them (sexually) but it also says do not approach them, so the Qu'ran is giving two pieces of advice/legislation? Don't have sex with them and leave them alone as well, correct?
There is no such word in the Aa'yat. The word Tay-ha-ra is perfect verb, masculine, singular, third person; while the verb in the Aa'yat is wherein "Noon" is pronoun for third person, feminine; plural as the subject/doer of the verb. This site has also given the chart
http//corpus.quran.com/treebank.jsp?chapter=2&verse=222&token=11There is little omission in the chart of not indicating what is omitted but is understood in the Aa'yat. Even without indulging in those delicacies, the meanings are vivdly clear.
I should also correct my translation
"And you should not associate with them till such time that they exhaust/drain out and noun of time-referred to the blood/clots itself of menses-and or duration of menses".
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peace Ak85,
Possibly, but if you feel it is two commands, why do you feel one is repealed yet the other is not
Say "It is A-Dh-Y, so retire yourselves (sexually) from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are Tay-ha-Ra (it). Then when they are Tay-ha-Ra (it), then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the T-W-B (masculine plural) and He loves those who Tay-ha-Ra (masculine plural).
Also, you may use corpus.quran.com for example and see if there is a difference in meaning of the terms used.
I re-read the verse, eliminating the "and do not approach them" and "(sexually)" as this is an inserted explanatory note, just to see how it would read, i.e.
Say "It is A-Dh-Y, so retire yourselves from the women during the menstruation until they are Tay-ha-Ra (it). Then when they are Tay-ha-Ra (it), then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the T-W-B (masculine plural) and He loves those who Tay-ha-Ra (masculine plural).
With it, it seems to be an emphasis, for effect, or used to specify the type of "retire/withdraw yourselves". As "approach them" can be used to mean in a sexual manner, e.g. 2187.
Peace Wakas.
After re-reading the translations, its seems like what the Qu'ran is saying is and do not approach them until they are clean after saying retire from them. So I guess it is not recommending staying away from them or giving two commands, (this was my initial misunderstanding) but saying do not have sex with them and after they are clean then you may have sex with them.
And perhaps they (women) would appreciate someone who doesn't just run away and hides in fear when they are menstruating and someone who patiently endures whatever abuse they may or may not hurl as a result of the way they are feeling. Thank you.
Peace
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peace Ayisha
Can you please relax with the almost obligatory sarcasm please? Is it really necessary?
peace
Even with my previous understanding, I didn't think they should have been locked up or anything away from anyone, if anything I thought it was upon us males to leave them alone.
And even now with my changed understanding, I don't think it is upon us to leave them alone, because that is insensitive. Sick people are often miserable, but we don't just leave them alone we still wait on them and bear their miserable mood. And later on in fact sometimes they even realize the fact that they put us through their miserable mood and we still persevered regardless, and they are grateful, happy and appreciative of it.
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peace Ayisha
Can you please relax with the almost obligatory sarcasm please? Is it really necessary?
peace
Peace AK
Sometimes it is necessary to make you see where your excessive thorough questioning of minute detail without what appears to be thought will lead to and DOES lead to.
AK, really really I do not mean to be rude towards you and it is clear as crystal you are trying very hard to understand every detail and word in the Book, and that is wonderful, but sometimes it seems you have a jigsaw in front of you and you are picking up each piece and thoroughly examining it without looking at the bigger picture as a guide. Even in my post now I feel you will pick it apart and take it as offensive and it really is not meant to be.
What I said above IS what some men do when women have their monthly GOD GIVEN menstruation. Without women menstruating there will be NO babies, NO new life and humanity would have ended with Adam and Eve. it is a completely natural thing, it is not dirty, women are not dirty to touch or be near when menstruating, it is not an illness, it is natural. Do not approach them does not mean do not be near them, you wont catch anything nasty from them, it means do not have sex with them at that time. It has already been seen that the majority do not allow women to pray at this time and take from that that even God does not want to have anything to do with them. Some will not eat with or be in the same room as a menstruating women so what I said is not completely sarcasm, it is a fact and does happen. Where I am living they are told that if a man has sex with a menstruating woman he will DIE from this. I am totally serious here, they are told all sorts and this is an Islamic country. Men go to the doctors if the wife happens to start bleeding during sex as they think their penis will shrivel up and drop off!
In the animal world it is the opposite. When a female animal is menstruating is the time for mating and that is the only time she will get pregnant. A female human cannot get pregnant if she has sex during menstruation but it will not kill a man or make his penis drop off or give him some incurable illness. A woman does not WANT to be bothered with sex while she is menstruating but can be highly sexual a few days before this BUT can also be highly sensitive and crouchy too. Normally once the period starts she is less crouchy but some can be in pain while menstruating and she is likely to still be sensitive and NEEDS love (not sex).
If you look at how women should be treated by their menfolk throughout the rest of Quran it makes no sense to not be anywhere near them during this time and makes more sense to be sensitive to them and their sensitivity and to show them kindness and love, not shun them as something dirty.
I apologize if you have taken offense at my post, it really is not meant to be offensive to you or to anyone else. I do not know you or your circumstances or how you were raised or what you know, and I think it best to clear up what to so many men is a mystery and if there are any here who may be reading who have been told this will kill a man or make him sick I hope this has explained better for them too. You only have to look at some of the ridiculous fatwa that come about due to mans lack of education concerning a womans body and the natural courses it goes through.
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http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstrual_cup
http//www.google.com.pk/images?hl=en&q=menstrual+cup&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=gAUmTNeFLY7w0wSEiYDGBA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDcQsAQwAwAhhh ok, similar to the 'cap' method of birth control. No good for me after spending a rather frustrating day chasing it around the bathroom
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peace ak85, all,
You may wish to re-consider and/or specify your usage of "clean". The way in which it is used by some implies women are unclean during this time, and whilst this may be a plausible interpretation, it is not the most probable imho. The subject is menstruation, sexual approach of that area, and it ends with the masculine plural of THR. Not to mention the other meanings of THR.
A seemingly small point but perhaps significant in its influence, as you may know that Traditional Muslims argue that since they/women are unclean during menses, they should not pray etc etc.In a post on facebook I attempted to logically smash this traditional argument, with the following, perhaps you/others will find it interesting. Re-worded
The whole reason for ablution is not to become tahir (~clean), because if it was, then why allow one to uphold salat/bond when obviously unclean when using dry soil (albeit, this is an exception). One could easily argue that being in this state is more unclean than a women in menses, yet upholding of salat/bond is allowed. Thus, let us consider the logic.
The Quran clearly allows upholding the salat/bond in such a condition under exceptions. Thus, according to traditional argument, we are to regard menses more "dirty/impure/unclean" than post-sex/orgasm/poo without washing. This is what I am trying to highlight.Therefore, the only logical outcome left for the traditional argument is to admit being in menses is more unclean than post-sex/orgasm/poo without washing.
Of course, the person I was discussing with (happened to be female) never conceded this, as I'm sure it is too nonsensical for them to stomach or be seen admitting to. In any case, it does not refute their argument, but serves to highlight the absurdity of their position. Try it.
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What I said above IS what some men do when women have their monthly GOD GIVEN menstruation. Without women menstruating there will be NO babies, NO new life and humanity would have ended with Adam and Eve. it is a completely natural thing, it is not dirty, women are not dirty to touch or be near when menstruating, it is not an illness, it is natural. Do not approach them does not mean do not be near them, you wont catch anything nasty from them, it means do not have sex with them at that time. It has already been seen that the majority do not allow women to pray at this time and take from that that even God does not want to have anything to do with them. Some will not eat with or be in the same room as a menstruating women so what I said is not completely sarcasm, it is a fact and does happen. Where I am living they are told that if a man has sex with a menstruating woman he will DIE from this. I am totally serious here, they are told all sorts and this is an Islamic country. Men go to the doctors if the wife happens to start bleeding during sex as they think their penis will shrivel up and drop off!
In the animal world it is the opposite. When a female animal is menstruating is the time for mating and that is the only time she will get pregnant. A female human cannot get pregnant if she has sex during menstruation but it will not kill a man or make his penis drop off or give him some incurable illness. A woman does not WANT to be bothered with sex while she is menstruating but can be highly sexual a few days before this BUT can also be highly sensitive and crouchy too. Normally once the period starts she is less crouchy but some can be in pain while menstruating and she is likely to still be sensitive and NEEDS love (not sex).
If you look at how women should be treated by their menfolk throughout the rest of Quran it makes no sense to not be anywhere near them during this time and makes more sense to be sensitive to them and their sensitivity and to show them kindness and love, not shun them as something dirty.
This is NOT feminine view point, but exact perception of that which has been told through the Messenger Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam.
The period of Menstruation has neither been declared as filthy, impure, dirty, nor illness. What has been declared, and which is the last word having been stating by none but the Messenger Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam, is this
You, the Messenger Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam pronounce;
"That/he- is a little vexation".
Subject/Topic- Third Person; Masculine; Singular.
Predicate/Comment- ;I don't know what made Pickthall to call it "illness" conveniently ignoring that it is described something different from "illness" in 2196 where it occurred for the first time; and in 4102. This is such a thing which can be caused to others by just oral statement-3186.
And similarly I don't know what made Yusuf Ali to call it "pollution". It is told that while in the assembly of Salat in open battlefield one can feel it because of rain-4102. And in 3378 he sensibly translated this word as "annoyance".goes back/relates to earlier imperative verb. There, in consideration the period being, generally-indefinite noun reflects this, annoying, little uncomfort, vexation, husbands are directed to consciously incline themselves with regard to the object of verb-wives to refrain sexual intercourse and then the time period during which they have to excercise this sort of getting nearer is to be avoided, i.e. till they drain/remove away the .
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Peace AK
Sometimes it is necessary to make you see where your excessive thorough questioning of minute detail without what appears to be thought will lead to and DOES lead to.
AK, really really I do not mean to be rude towards you and it is clear as crystal you are trying very hard to understand every detail and word in the Book, and that is wonderful, but sometimes it seems you have a jigsaw in front of you and you are picking up each piece and thoroughly examining it without looking at the bigger picture as a guide. Even in my post now I feel you will pick it apart and take it as offensive and it really is not meant to be.
What I said above IS what some men do when women have their monthly GOD GIVEN menstruation. Without women menstruating there will be NO babies, NO new life and humanity would have ended with Adam and Eve. it is a completely natural thing, it is not dirty, women are not dirty to touch or be near when menstruating, it is not an illness, it is natural. Do not approach them does not mean do not be near them, you wont catch anything nasty from them, it means do not have sex with them at that time. It has already been seen that the majority do not allow women to pray at this time and take from that that even God does not want to have anything to do with them. Some will not eat with or be in the same room as a menstruating women so what I said is not completely sarcasm, it is a fact and does happen. Where I am living they are told that if a man has sex with a menstruating woman he will DIE from this. I am totally serious here, they are told all sorts and this is an Islamic country. Men go to the doctors if the wife happens to start bleeding during sex as they think their penis will shrivel up and drop off!
In the animal world it is the opposite. When a female animal is menstruating is the time for mating and that is the only time she will get pregnant. A female human cannot get pregnant if she has sex during menstruation but it will not kill a man or make his penis drop off or give him some incurable illness. A woman does not WANT to be bothered with sex while she is menstruating but can be highly sexual a few days before this BUT can also be highly sensitive and crouchy too. Normally once the period starts she is less crouchy but some can be in pain while menstruating and she is likely to still be sensitive and NEEDS love (not sex).
If you look at how women should be treated by their menfolk throughout the rest of Quran it makes no sense to not be anywhere near them during this time and makes more sense to be sensitive to them and their sensitivity and to show them kindness and love, not shun them as something dirty.
I apologize if you have taken offense at my post, it really is not meant to be offensive to you or to anyone else. I do not know you or your circumstances or how you were raised or what you know, and I think it best to clear up what to so many men is a mystery and if there are any here who may be reading who have been told this will kill a man or make him sick I hope this has explained better for them too. You only have to look at some of the ridiculous fatwa that come about due to mans lack of education concerning a womans body and the natural courses it goes through.
Peace
lol no, I am not from a traditional background at all. I don't believe in stuff like "women are impure in every imaginable way when they are menstruating do not go near them period." In my first misunderstanding, I just thought maybe we should leave them alone not lock them up or anything, but like I said now with my improved understanding, I've realized that this is not only not necessary but might make the woman even more resentful, us men should just accept it as a fact of life and try to put up with, just like we would put up with a miserable person going through any other kind of sickness
Also, I know very well a guy's penis will not drop etc. if he has sex with a woman while she is menstruating. I'm not from a traditional background so I'm familiar with things like "taking the dirt road" rofl or just having sex with her while she's "on her rag" anyway and nothing happening...as far as a penis falling off is concerned, I can't comment on what happens when the bodily fluids that mix include menstrual blood going into the male as opposed to what would normally mix (assuming the sex is without a condom)
