If Allah is the only Sovereign, why do Muslims accept many sovereigns?
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Dear Mushu
He will never answer you and will just keep on copy pasting. You have raised some real good questions. The main one is where and how can we implement the system in the Moderen world? This was the same qusetion I asked him in my earlier posts?
Abdun nur
Dear I will take your advice seriously, but You are ONE character who wants to take us back to the Peiod of NOMADS and BArbarians, to the period when OFFa and his likes used to send ships loaded with Gold to the Roman popes, looted from the hard toil of people.
It was the time when the according to the Domesday Book, (compiled in 1086), not more than 90% of the English population of about two million lived in the countryside.
That was the total population Scattered all over, and now you have Cities with population of more than 13 Millions.
To you is yours path and to me mine the PAth of Muhammad peace is upon him and the Quran's. -
David-k
what is your point in listing the above quotes,Democracy is the only form of System after Islamic where a peasent can become President of a whole Nation.
A Black Minority Can be Ruling White Majority.
It is Contra to the System of Kings, which your friend wants to implement on us. -
My point is to show that democracy has flaws. Democracy is one of the best man-made systems we have today, but NOT the best. And not even next best system we have to today.
Let me ask you a question. Do you really believe democracy is the best system humankind has created? Or do you believe there exists better systems than democracy?
Quran 6116
And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess. -
David-K
My point is to show that democracy has flaws. Democracy is one of the best man-made systems we have today, but NOT the best. And not even next best system we have to today.
Everybody knows that, no system is perfect, but that is best available, we can make reforms in it, we came a long way to this, as you admitted that is the best man-made system we have today.
David-KLet me ask you a question. Do you really believe democracy is the best system humankind has created? Or do you believe there exists better systems than democracy?
In theory there may be many, one is been discussed, but when it comes to practicality, presently there is none.
David -K
Quran 6116
And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination. (459
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The fourth and final model of the Islamic society.
Poly-centric Community.
Community can not be created by a group of strangers, by its very nature community demands 'common unity', in the modern industrialised world they have just the fiction of community, a word with little meaning or connection to reality.
6116 (People will confront you with what the majority is doing.) Now if
you pay heed to, or get intimidated by majority of those who live on
earth, they will lead you astray from God?s way. Most of the people
follow nothing but conjecture and they only live by guesswork.(QXP)Throughout a great portion of recorded history humanity has suffered under a system of isolation, where the individual perceives themselves to have little or no power. The state and religion control and dictate upon them and the general population.
Religion utterly rejects methodology in favour of dogmatic conclusion, Islam rejects all religions in favour of methodology, it is this methodology I wish to understand and explore.
The sovereign system could be viewed as a scalar network, each individual has a minimum value, and this value can not change, no matter the actions of the individual in the view of the governing system; it demonstrates an expansion of population within an isolated minimum value. The subjugated minds of the population are easily pacified with illusions of equality, illusions of opportunity, illusions of identity, and illusions of ownership through taxation. Just as religion pacifies them with illusions salvation, illusions of resolution, illusions of justice and illusions of sanctity.
This results in a system that has no true value for the individual, it values property, wealth, and land as having a higher value than human life, the most extreme example of this dehumanisation of the individual, would be manifest through the communist model, where the state has total power, dominating each individual.
Within this model government, usury, legislation, sovereignty, corporations, states, and political power are not required.
Political power defined as 'the threat of overwhelming force against the legally disarmed.'
In contrast to this the Islamic structure could be viewed as a none scalar network.
Within this social structure the individual is viewed as all powerful, so in the control of their own actions and desires, each individual can increase their perceived value, and no governing system can control and dictate upon them beyond common law, also known as universal law (not legislation).
This results in a system that has no true value for property, wealth or land, but an exceedingly high value for a human life, human health, human comfort, human development, human advancement and the fulfilling of each individuals full potential.
The limiting factors upon the individual is within the dynamics of the local community they exist within, for example if only a single isolated community existed, surround by a corporate model social structure, the opportunities for the individual would be limited, but the greater the number of communities, the more opportunity would be opened.
As a non-scalar community, no outside government could be in control of the community, as it is self governing, self sustaining at a base level, it generates its own wealth and exists symbiotically with the communities around it, interacting in every facet of life, and ultimately it would be self replicating.
A centralised regional 'Hub', comprising of many self governing communities circling it, 'Nodes', would form a regional market, and allow regional community debate, and so the exchange of ideas in the development and improvements of the area. In this way each community would have easy and natural access to more than one hub.
Replication of nodes would be a natural expansion of the model, as the community grew larger, land allocation would set people further afield, so making them in effect a new node, which in turn would build out into a new hub. This also allows for natural diversity, as upon the basic foundations of the contract an infinite number of possible enviroments could be established.
Within any community there is of course no compulsion to stay, any member can leave or new members join as they wished.
All individuals making up the community would be held within a signed social contract, as established within common law, a constitution of minimum standards, these preventing the reintroduction of enslaving systems, this means individuals would consider the social contract, and at an age of maturity and mental competence, upon agreement, invest themselves to that social model, this would make them bond to follow the minimum boundaries of that society, upon a foundation of common law, defining the Islamic model as a contract would then be a vital aspect to begin any Islamic community.
As explained within the essay 'Common Law', if you are within a corporate society signed in through your birth certificate by your parents, you must first dissolve the contract to that society before establishing your new contract with the Islamic society.
In the recent past and at present, large and small communities are socially structured through a Jewish/Christian sovereign model, this leads to sovereign tribal wars, and the pyramid of sovereign extraction, draining the labour of the poor towards the elite. However within the Islamic model, no sovereign can exist, as only Allah can be sovereign, noting that not even the messenger Muhammad can be your sovereign, so rendering Hadith worthless. This restriction on the establishment of sovereigns means no sovereign can dominate and bully their subjected people into the theft of the property of their neighbours, or the murder, genocide, enslavement or subjugation of their neighbours.
Personal Freedoms.
The concept of personal freedom; no group can compel an individual to do anything against their will, the freedom of an individual to act as they see fit, if that action harms no one else (physically, mentally or socially), under common law, that action cannot be disputed, freedom of expression, freedom of belief, freedom of diversity (cultural, social, personal).
The concept of free education; free of outside influence and manipulations, free of dogma, free of biased views and deceptive facts, a right to be educated to the height of each individual?s abilities, in intellectual or physical disciplines. As we have been created for knowledge.
What is freedom, but the ability to act freely a state in which somebody is able to act, and live as they choose, without being subject to any undue restraints or restrictions. Being free is a responsibility, one that our forefathers failed to sustain, leaving us as economic slaves, restricted, conditioned and indoctrinated into a delusion of freedom, but a reality of conformity and constraint, continually escalating.
The elite attempt to redefine the understanding of freedom, convincing you freedom is action free from responsibility, they endeavour to excuse consequence, defer accountability to a third party, in truth freedom is the opposite of this, freedom is responsibility, you are fully responsible for your actions, accountable for the results of your actions and cannot escape the ultimate consequence of a lifetime of choices.
Freedom is making decisions under your own volition, not having to comply to the decisions of others, freedom is taking responsibility for your actions, not creating excuses to justify them, freedom is the power to control the fruits of your labour without the usurious dilution of your efforts, freedom is the right to feel safe, secure and confident within the community you live, freedom is the right to privacy for yourself and the people you interact with. Freedom is this and more; with true freedom you generate great responsibility, with indoctrinated social engineering you generate terrible slavery.
It cannot be a system of force but of choice, if people choose to live like swine, no amount of force will change that, it will only increase the depravity, freedom means responsibility, to live as a caliph of Allah?s guidance, is to live as a free, fearless, reasoning, lover of truth.
A Caliph.
Everyone of us is a potential caliph (potential only), meaning being a custodian of the Earth (because each generation succeeds the next, and so must leave the Earth in the same good condition they were given it, even improve its condition), meaning, they are responsible in conferring respect to the environment they exists within, as they are dependent upon this structure, capable of understanding the laws of nature, ultimately through this understand utilising them to their advantage, having them bow to their will; a servant of humanity, a protector of the innocent and vulnerable, a scholar and teacher, always honest by word and deed, selfless and generous; they are responsible to themselves and the people and animals around them, to demonstrate respect and concern for their welfare and edification.
Within the community at large each caliph is responsible for their own decisions, if they wish to establish 'Salat' (establishing a Qur'anic purpose) these decisions are then generated through the comprehension and unbiased understanding of the concepts guided within the Qur?an, free of any 'Hadith' (being unmitigated conjecture). Or if a communal decision, through community discussion, and implemented through a committee selected with specific talents or knowledge for the task under question, if the group requires a voice among many communities for large regional decisions, the caliph sent is simply the orator of their decisions, they may be viewed simply as the automaton that has inherited the message they express from the collective decision, which only morally binds those who accept any undertaking, while all decisions are accountable to common law.
It maybe said there is not enough land to apply this model, but if you look at land use in the UK, being a very densely populated land mass, the population only use 3% of the land area, the rest is held by the sovereigns, there truly is no shortage of land for community use anywhere on earth.
This structure of community is not democracy, for example, if there are 100 people and a park is suggested to the group, the idea is explained and a location suggested, the group firstly establish there is not conflict to the idea, the proponent of the idea then asks the 100 people who would like to contribute to the venture, only those individuals who wish to contribute, actually do contribute, no imposed burden is enforced upon the group at large.
Taxation.
To tax (from the Latin 'taxo' meaning 'I estimate'
After introducing tax
1.The price received by the seller is less than the cost to the buyer. This means that fewer trades occur and that the individuals or businesses involved gain less from participating in the market. This destroys value, and is known as the 'dead weight cost of taxation'.
2.Imposed overhead costs - accounts, records and receipts. Internal and external accounting, invasive oversight of government, and the use of intimidation both financial and physical by the state, requiring administration and infrastructure.
3.Tax burden increases, indirect and direct taxation feeds the loan repayments to the bankers, who print money for the cost of printing and lend it to the government at interest, halving the value of savings and doubling the cost of goods every ten years on average.
4.Services supplied in justification for the taxation reduce and degenerate the longer the system runs due to the ever increasing demands of the interest payments to the bankers for the fictitious loan repayments.
George Mason University, stated "Government income redistribution programs produce the same result as theft. In fact, that's what a thief does; he redistributes income. The difference between government and thievery is mostly a matter of legality."
Taxation is the ultimate form of usury or 'Riba', as it is termed in Arabic, as an determinate foundation absolutely no form of taxation can be inflicted upon the population. This can not be stressed strongly enough, all and every tax is a crime against the individual, without exception, it is not required and works in a counterproductive way, it reduces services and increases costs, as is demonstrated historically.
Usury.
(Usury the premeditated theft of the fruits of somebody labour.)
The strict prohibition of Usury, being; the premeditated theft of the fruits of someone labour, this concept must be comprehensively understand as a common knowledge, so the misery of usury will not be manifest again, and for this purpose the methods employed to install and establish these vile practices upon individuals must be well known.
Public services.
How do we fund public services beyond charitable donation from the local community?
There are four sections to public services
Public services of a utilitarian nature, such as refuse removal and street cleaning, water purification and sewage treatment, public roads, energy (if free energy systems have not been established) etc. would be paid for as utilized.
Public services of an essential nature such as, common law enforcement, fire brigade, street lighting, schools, colleges, universities, hospitals, doctors, dentists, etc. would be paid for through charitable donations.
Public services of a communal nature such as, public buildings, parks, historic buildings, museums, public performances, etc. combination of donations, trade and minimal fees if a short fall occurs.
Public liabilities, obligatory to protect the innocent, orphans, widows, those in need, through charitable donations.
This system would produce a surplus as was demonstrated within the USA before 1913, when no taxation was established and the government had a surplus solely from charitable donations.
A system based on community not on profit, would function at a small fraction of the costs incurred through a usurious system, the burden of basic existence would become small, and the time to explore and expand the self would be opened.
Abandon slavery.
Many concepts must be abandoned
1.No nations, only unity, a single species.
2.No borders, we inhabit a single planet.
3.No sovereign government, only submission to the concepts and direction of true personal freedom, under common law, as presented within the Deen of the Qur?an.
4.No usury, only honest trade.
5.No inequality, every human being is unique, gifted and able to expand their consciousness, and must be given opportunity to develop their abilities and personalities, and build knowledge of the correct understanding of existence and truth, free of religions, beyond personal delusion, as there is no compulsion.
6.No royalties, no copy right, no money lending at interest, no gambling (stock market, futures market, commodities market, pensions, insurance, etc.), no income tax, no sales tax (VAT), no rates payments, no levy on energy.
7.No buy and sell of what you can not own, meaning land and natural resources, only the labour invested within them.
8.No letting property private or commercial (beyond unintentional acquisition, short term)
9.No poison the environment and food chain with chemical additives within the human food chain, no genetically modified food products.
10.No monopolies of any sort, allowing propaganda to misguide the population.
11.No corporations or legislation.
War.
Instigation of war for the individual is impossible, that would be assault or murder, only through the subjugation of a population can an individual establish a war.
However if you have a situation whereby an outside state attacks a community of individuals, then it would be a defensive war, and in this way the individual would be at war.
The most powerful defence against an invading force is unity, states thrive on violence and exploitation, individuals on community and unity.
To stand united is the best defence, offer no aid to the enemy, no collaboration of any sort, join together with all communities to defend your lives, prevent the extraction of the resources of the region under attack by the invading state, war is expensive, theft and subjugation are the rewards they wish to gain.
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Salaam,
if you have read the four models and find you agree with Raaajah, ignore them, there is no compulsion in Islam, Raajah demonstrates a contempt for the Islamic doctrine I find hard to understand, but he is entitled to be a slave to a state, government, monarch or religious leader, if he so wishes, he can pay money to a thief to buy the property of Allah if he wishes, he can give the fruits of his labour in taxation, to wage wars and inflict death and destruction around the world, he can borrow money from the criminal banking cartels, who hold humanity in poverty and hardship, there is no compulsion.
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Abun Nur
Salaam,
if you have read the four models and find you agree with Raaajah, ignore them, there is no compulsion in Islam, Raajah demonstrates a contempt for the Islamic doctrine I find hard to understand, but he is entitled to be a slave to a state, government, monarch or religious leader, if he so wishes, he can pay money to a thief to buy the property of Allah if he wishes, he can give the fruits of his labour in taxation, to wage wars and inflict death and destruction around the world, he can borrow money from the criminal banking cartels, who hold humanity in poverty and hardship, there is no compulsion
Salaam Brother,
I don't think so many will dislike your MOdels barrowed from Bakunin and Emma Gold man, mixed with your own ideas, But what I am saying don't label it as Islamic and Quranic, that is all, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT.
That is what I have tried to expalin in the other thread. -
Salaam,
I have never heard of your Jewish sounding references, if you wish to promote these Jewish concepts feel free but don't apply non-sense upon anything I have expressed, if you want to present reasoned thoughts expressing something with value, feel free, otherwise shut up, you have made no points, adding nothing of value to the understanding of a single soul so far, only expressed worthless utterances.
Are those the actions a Muslim?
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Abdun Nur
Salaam,
I have never heard of your Jewish sounding references, if you wish to promote these Jewish concepts feel free but don't apply non-sense upon anything I have expressed, if you want to present reasoned thoughts expressing something with value, feel free, otherwise shut up, you have made no points, adding nothing of value to the understanding of a single soul so far, only expressed worthless utterances.
You are not judge to decide if it was of value or not? But what you have expressed shows your frustration and true picture of your chracter.
Talking Big is not Big my friend. -
Abdun Nur
Salaam,
I can most certainly distinguish a lie when one is clearly stated, my character is not the one in question.
It certainly is! If Muhammad peace is upon him or others Messangers did not had chracter, Islam would had never being popular so fast.
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Salaam all,
if anyone is seriously interested in discussing the Islamic community model further, or would be interested in attending the lecture in St. Annes near Blackpool, at New Horizons on the 12th July 2010, detail on the link below, as at the moment the world is a constrictive prison planet, economic slavery in the western countries and worse around the third world through the insanity of government corporate structure, we must apply common law and free ourselves through the Islamic community model, and live in a place of growth and development.
Freedom is not the easy path, due to the ignorance and complicity of truly subjugated minds defending and protecting their enslavement, and maintaining the enslavement of those around them.
http//www.newhorizonsstannes.com/
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Servantofthelight.com
This domain name expired on Jun 28 2010 0141AM. Click here to renew it.States this site at 850pm Pakistan Standard time
http//www.newhorizonsstannes.com/May be he is too busy with prepration of his lecture. peace