Taking off the Hijab
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As soon as I was on my way back home I put it straight back on. Being in an obscure area without Hijab is OK, but in the city, not such a good idea. Some men somehow get the idea that they can talk to you and harass you if they feel like it and they feel they have a right to your personal phone number and if you disagree with them on that point, they will harass you even more.
I'm perfectly convinced that it's not a religious obligation and although timid, I'm ready to fight my corner in regards to that belief, but taking it off doesn't just invite those who are adamant that it's compulsory (without proof incidentally) to harass me but also men. I generally just felt quite naked with it off.
I was seriously considering taking it off full time until this...
Don't people harass you in the scarf? Muslims in particular, they can also feel the right to have your personal number...
You've been wearing it for some time so I can imagine that you would feel naked without it..
You know though I have noticed everyone I know who's worn it has had issues with their hair, especially over a longer period. don't neglect your health.
BTW ever been in an area with hardly any muslims or scarfies? watch how they eye you out
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The purpose of the dress code is to prevent harassment/being harmed/annoyance (3359). If Sirius feels she is being harassed with it off, I think there's nothing wrong with her wearing it.
It depends on your intent. A Quranic dress code deters harassment. That's the golden rule. You just can't say x is COMPULSORY.
Situational
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htm -
Peace AK85,
I don't think it's just an issue of being afraid to be confronted about my convictions although I won't lie to you, that is a part of it. I did take it off for a few days a while ago in an unfamiliar place and I remembered one of the main reasons I put it on; men. Literally five minutes after a took it off I had a shop-keeper eyeing me up. Needless to say I stayed indoors for most of the time I was away but when I did leave the house the same sort of thing was happening. Maybe I had something in my hair P, you never know or maybe it's just my luck that I run into pervs. In those few days without Hijab I came across more sickos than in over a year with it.
As soon as I was on my way back home I put it straight back on. Being in an obscure area without Hijab is OK, but in the city, not such a good idea. Some men somehow get the idea that they can talk to you and harass you if they feel like it and they feel they have a right to your personal phone number and if you disagree with them on that point, they will harass you even more.
I'm perfectly convinced that it's not a religious obligation and although timid, I'm ready to fight my corner in regards to that belief, but taking it off doesn't just invite those who are adamant that it's compulsory (without proof incidentally) to harass me but also men. I generally just felt quite naked with it off.
I was seriously considering taking it off full time until this...
I'm not sure if thats enough of a reason to justify hijab, i wont disagree with your choice, but i just think in day to day life i dont feel very protected by wearing it.
when out i generally feel like i stick out like a sore thumb, and men on many occasions will approach me, call me over or eye me up. its degrading, embarrassing and makes me feel like i want to disappear. this would happen mostly by muslim men which i understand, they see the hijab and presume loads about me, but at the same time i'll still get crap from non muslim men so its clearly not enough of a deterrent. on several occasions i've felt really unsafe this ranges from being followed home at night to being sexually harassed in a mosque.
i have non muslim friends who've had no such problems or even close.
i just think ultimately the problem dosent lie with us, God didnt create us to be a massive problem to society that needs to be hidden as sunnism would suggest, some men are just WEIRD! hijab or not.
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Peace AK85,
I don't think it's just an issue of being afraid to be confronted about my convictions although I won't lie to you, that is a part of it. I did take it off for a few days a while ago in an unfamiliar place and I remembered one of the main reasons I put it on; men. Literally five minutes after a took it off I had a shop-keeper eyeing me up. Needless to say I stayed indoors for most of the time I was away but when I did leave the house the same sort of thing was happening. Maybe I had something in my hair P, you never know or maybe it's just my luck that I run into pervs. In those few days without Hijab I came across more sickos than in over a year with it.
As soon as I was on my way back home I put it straight back on. Being in an obscure area without Hijab is OK, but in the city, not such a good idea. Some men somehow get the idea that they can talk to you and harass you if they feel like it and they feel they have a right to your personal phone number and if you disagree with them on that point, they will harass you even more.
I'm perfectly convinced that it's not a religious obligation and although timid, I'm ready to fight my corner in regards to that belief, but taking it off doesn't just invite those who are adamant that it's compulsory (without proof incidentally) to harass me but also men. I generally just felt quite naked with it off.
I was seriously considering taking it off full time until this...
peace
Allah tests the believers. I'm assuming you weren't half naked and the only thing you were displaying is your hair (oh no!), if so Allah was testing you. Allah tests you with everything, including any and all kinds of security (life, finances etc.) (This is why we should not be scared of death when propagating what we feel are true beliefs of Allah. This can be hard and I'm certainly not saying I am 100% percent never scared of discussing any and all of my beliefs.)
As people have said in this thread if someone gets a hard on from seeing a woman displaying her hair, that man has problems and is a pervert not you. To suggest a woman is "asking for it" or being unfair by displaying her hair is ludicrous. I notice women that reveal much more than their hair and I can control myself. The men who can't have problems, not me.
I am not and will not dare imply that I am 100% courageous about everything that I should be courageous about. Maybe you don't have to argue with these people or even say anything when they pester you and question (why you don't wear the hijab) you. If you in your heart know that you are doing the right thing, do not worry about their slander and insults and backbiting. Your perseverance is your mark of faith and will shine brightly on Judgement Day. Your courage in standing up for your beliefs will inspire others who take notice of it, you may or may not witness this inspiration. They may be inspired by your courage and honesty on this particular subject, or to be courageous and honest against unsavoury odds in general.
My heart goes to women like you and I agree that some men are revolting creatures with no self control.
The following excerpt from this article brought tears to my eyes in regards to this man's courage (http//www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=2614), and hopefully it can inspire you
In the early 1990?s, I was invited by the Egyptian association for religious brotherhood to lecture in a church in Cairo to Muslims and Christians about tolerance. I was warned that there was a suspicious bearded man waiting for me in front of the church.
We talked. He told me that he had spent two months trying to meet me. He told me that he had been a member of secret fanatic organization and was assigned to rebut my discourse, but that my words had changed his and his family?s life. He asked me to join my weekly Friday prayer meeting at my home, and if possible bring his family.
After a month they became Quranists.
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It depends on your intent. A Quranic dress code deters harassment. That's the golden rule. You just can't say x is COMPULSORY.
Peace
I agree with you on that.
Don't people harass you in the scarf? Muslims in particular, they can also feel the right to have your personal number...
You've been wearing it for some time so I can imagine that you would feel naked without it..
You know though I have noticed everyone I know who's worn it has had issues with their hair, especially over a longer period. don't neglect your health.
BTW ever been in an area with hardly any muslims or scarfies? watch how they eye you out
Yes, they do but it's not in the same aggressive attitude. Most Muslims have an inkling of what they might be doing wrong and you can guilt trip them into leaving you alone. Non-Muslim guys think that they are well within their rights to do what they are doing, to an extent the Muslim guys do think so to but when you play them at their own game 'No, I cannot be your friend as friendships between males and females are wrong" they leave you alone. ;D
And I lol'd at 'watch how they eye you out'. Too true Sarah, too true.
I'm not sure if thats enough of a reason to justify hijab, i wont disagree with your choice, but i just think in day to day life i dont feel very protected by wearing it.
when out i generally feel like i stick out like a sore thumb, and men on many occasions will approach me, call me over or eye me up. its degrading, embarrassing and makes me feel like i want to disappear. this would happen mostly by muslim men which i understand, they see the hijab and presume loads about me, but at the same time i'll still get crap from non muslim men so its clearly not enough of a deterrent. on several occasions i've felt really unsafe this ranges from being followed home at night to being sexually harassed in a mosque.
i have non muslim friends who've had no such problems or even close.
i just think ultimately the problem dosent lie with us, God didnt create us to be a massive problem to society that needs to be hidden as sunnism would suggest, some men are just WEIRD! hijab or not.
I wasn't trying to justify Hijab, inside I am very torn about the concept though. On the one hand I remember all of the occasions that could have been potentially horrible had I not been wearing Hijab and then I remember things like the other day when I was wearing Hijab yet some man decides to start with his 'MashaAllah' nonsense really very loudly in the street. I guess I'm wearing it wrong, not being blacked out enough. And then I remember an experience where I was out very late and I honestly think if I wasn't wearing Hijab that something potentially bad could have happened to me. I'm really trying to weight up the pros and cons in my mind. My main reason is that I do not want to walk around advertising a form of Islam that I don't believe in but is being safe a necessary price to pay? And then it goes round and round in my head. What if I take it off? It gives me a headache to think about it. All i know is that I want to take it off but I want to walk around without having guys breathing down my neck.
And yes, some guys are mentally unstable whether you wear Hijab or not, in fact I will extend that to all guys )
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Yes, they do but it's not in the same aggressive attitude. Most Muslims have an inkling of what they might be doing wrong and you can guilt trip them into leaving you alone. Non-Muslim guys think that they are well within their rights to do what they are doing
Where do you live, Sirius, if I may ask?
My experience is exactly the opposite. In Cairo, I am subject to harassment on a daily basis, so are the majority of women there, regardless of how they are dressed. The men are very, very aggressive and people rarely ever interfere because it's commonly assumed that this is "normal" male behaviour. Recent studies have shown that the majority of Egyptian men harass women regularly and see nothing wrong with that whatsoever. (I think I even posted this study somewhere in this long thread, since we discussed sexual harassment in Arabic countries before.)
In my European homecountry and in other places where I've lived, I very, very rarely get harassed, and if it happens it is ridiculously tame compared to the harassment in Egypt, or the one I have experienced in other Arabic countries, for that matter.
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Peace Everyone
Quran 726
O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to alleviate your bodies, and feathers; and the garment of righteousness is the best. That is from the signs of God, perhaps they will remember.Humanity has been given garments to cover their body, . In the verse above, we are told that the garment of righteousness is best. What does this mean? The garment of righteousness is a metaphor. And garments protects us, so we should protect ourselves with righteous (be righteous). As you have probably noticed, in the verse above it says Children of Adam. It does not say women or men. This is because this verse is for both women and men. The advice in it is for both women and men.
Quran 727
O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe.The evil force/impulse/lust motivates people to remove their garments from their body.
Quran 2460
And the women who are past child bearing, who no longer seek to get married, have no sin upon them if they put-off their garments, provided they are not adorned for beauty. And if they remain as they were, then it is better for them. God is Hearer, Knower.Women who are finished with giving birth and no longer want to get married, does not need to have the same modesty as other women. They can relax their dress code. But they should not were less modest clothes to show their beauty. And it is better for the women if they remain modest (and do not relax their dress code).
Quran 3359
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they will not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.Women who are believers should lenghten upon themselves their outer garments (wear clothes that will cover more parts of their bodies). The reason for doing this is to not be harassed by men. Keep in mind that this does not mean that a woman should cover her hair. This just mean that she should cover more parts of her body, since, then the chance of being harmed is less. From the above verse, it is obvious that modesty is the dress code of women who are believers.
Quran 2187
...They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them...Wives are a garment (protection) for their husbands, and husbands are a garment (protection) for their wives. The word garment here is a metaphor.
Quran 2431
And tell the believing females to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent, and let them put forth their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those maintained by their oaths, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.As you can see from the verse above, women who are believers, should hide their bossoms, keep them covered. From my interpretation, this means that women should cover their breast completely. But this order is only for women who are believers. NOT for women from other beliefs. In a picture below, you can see that the breast of this woman is not fully covered, something which is not compatible with islam
http//i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2008/12/cheryl-cleavage-500x700.jpg
http//fuzzythoughts.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/scarlettjohansson.jpgIn the pictures above, you can see that the breasts of those women are not completely covered. And from my understanding of the Quran, this is not compatible with islam. However, keep in mind that only believers should cover their breasts. Women from other beliefs do not have the same obligations as believers (women from islam).
Further, in verse 2431, we can see that women who are believers should not strike their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. As you probably have noticed, many women walk in a way that reveal their beauty. They shake their butts and hips while they walk. And many women wear high heels, which shows their beauty. Wearing high heels can make the body of a woman more symmetrical, it makes the butt seem more big and pulls it backward, and it pushes the bottoms forward
http//www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-548730/Lifes-little-mysteries-Why-women-wear-high-heels-did-kamikaze-pilots-wear-helmets.html
By the way, I recommend this article below. In the article, the author compares two extremes, women with bikini and women with burka. I do not agree with everything the author says, but i think it is an interesting comparison between some women in the west and some women in the east.
http//www.rense.com/general29/deb.htm
If women get harassed by men, what can they do? First of all, even if a woman walks almost naked in the street, the men are still responsible for their actions and behaviour and have no right to act immorally and harass women. Men have no right to harass any woman whether she wears hijab or not. And whether she wears modest clothes or not. But, I think if a women were modest clothes, it may reduce the chance of being harassed in the streets. What do i men by modest clothes? In the pictures below are some examples of modest clothing that women who follow islam based on quran can get ideas/inspiration from
http//img.christa-taylor.com/t/category-product/img/graphics/00000001/p-canvasbib.jpg
http//www.tznius.com/images/products/cordtieredskirt1.JPG
http//www.catholichomeandgarden.com/Modest%20Clothing/Floral%20Essence%20Modest%20Clothing.jpg
http//mastina.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/wt6127b.jpg
http//www.silhouettes.com/HanoverAssets/silhouettes/large_images/7A256230_BO.jpg
http//www.denimology.com/2009/03/Z2H5QRKIZ4_JJennifer_Love_Hewitt_inGenetic_Denim_Boyfriend_jeans_JTn_Toluca_Lake_-March_7_36.jpg
http//www.modestclothingsite.com/images/modest-clothing.jpg
http//www.likeawarmcupofcoffee.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sponsor-pics-0084.jpgWearing Hijab is not a duty from the Quran. It was introduced to muslims through christianity. It has nothing to do with islam or the quran. But at the same time, if a believer wants to wear Hijab, she can wear it. No verse in the quran tells us that women are not allowed to wear headscarf. So wearing hijab is not from islam, but at the same time, wearing it is not uncompatible with islam neither.
islam teaches us to follow the middlepath. We should follow the middlepath when it comes to clothes as well. We are adviced to wear modest clothes (not just women, but also men).
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Peace, David,
no offense, but this thread is about the particular experiences and feelings related to taking off the hijab, not about whether it's an obligation or not.
But, I think if a women were modest clothes, it may reduce the chance of being harassed in the streets.
I was talking about Egypt, and there it does NOT matter how you dress. You do get more harassment when you don't wear a headscarf, or when your ankles / forearms can be seen. But in general, all women get harassed, even those who wear niqab.
By the way, I recommend this article below. In the article, the author compares two extremes, women with bikini and women with burka. I do not agree with everything the author says, but i think it is an interesting comparison between some women in the west and some women in the east.
Funny that you posted that link because I just happened to read the article this morning. It's not the first of its kind that I have read, but it did piss me off. It's sad that there are still some men out there who have an issue with women wanting to lead a self-determined life.
I am soooo tired of women being stereotyped and categorized, and the comparison burka -- bikini is a really stupid one imho.
Plus, I find the article highly offensive. A woman in a bikini is "public property"? Oh, please! I am sure most here don't agree with the exploitation of female beauty and female bodies, but likening a woman who publicly appears in a bikini to a prostitute is simply stupid and insulting.
The author says a lot of other things that I find either very objectionable, scientifically wrong, or just plain stupid
For me, the burka represents a woman's consecration to her husband and family. Only they see her.
And why in the world should the husband and family be the only ones to see a woman?
The Muslim woman's focus is her home, the "nest" where her children are born and reared.
She is the "home" maker, the taproot that sustains the spiritual life of the family, nurturing and training her children, providing refuge and support to her husband.I so wish men would stop speaking up in the name of Muslim women and deciding what their focus in life should be!
A feminist, she belongs to herself.
The author seems to have no clue about feminism. Feminists do not strut around practically naked in front of millions of people; in fact they are usually highly opposed to that form of exploitation of female beauty.
She loses her innocence, which is a part of her charm. She becomes hardened and calculating. Unable to love, she is unfit to receive her husband's seed.
yeah
The feminine personality is founded on the emotional relationship between mother and baby. It is based on nurturing and self-sacrifice. Masculine nature is founded on the relationship between hunter and prey. It is based on aggression and reason.
And again we have a man describing how HE would like women to be, assuming the right to determine what being feminine and masculine means. I strongly resent this sort of silly stereotyping.
Feminism teaches woman that feminine nature has resulted in "oppression" and that she should convert to male behavior instead. The result a confused and aggressive woman with a large chip on her shoulder, unfit to become a wife or mother.
As I said above, the author obviously has a very distorted perception of what feminism is and how feminists think. The fact that he presents his personal preconceptions as facts does not bode very well for his integrity. Maybe he should have actually taken the time to speak to some feminists before writing his article.
This is especially destructive for woman. Her sexual attraction is a function of her fertility. As fertility declines, so does her sex appeal. If a woman devotes her prime years to becoming "independent," she is not likely to find a permanent mate.
So women should stop wanting to become independent because that will decrease their chances of finding a mate? Good Lord!
Her long-term personal fulfillment and happiness lies in making marriage and family her first priority.
I know I am repeating myself, but again -- I really wish some men would stop being so bloody patronizing and thinking they have the right to decide how women are supposed to find happiness and fulfillment! Please let us decide for ourselves what our priorities are and how we decide to find personal fulfillment.
Feminism is another cruel New World Order hoax that has debauched American women and despoiled Western civilization. It has ruined millions of lives and represents a lethal threat to Islam.
BS. Feminism and Islam are absolutely compatible. The Qur'an does not teach us that women are supposed to be submissive to their husbands, should not pursue a carreer and are only supposed to find fulfillment in being domestic animals.
Any religion / nation / society that sees women as second class citizens and denies them the right to live their lifes as they wish to, is doomed for failure.
This guy obviously has serious issues with independent women who don't regard becoming a housewife and mother as their primary goal in life. His nasty and patronizing comments are a testimony to his fear of such women. Well ... he and his likes won't be able to turn back the clock, and the particular model of femininity he is trying to propagate here is about to vanish sooner or later. Alhmadullilah!
I am not advocating the burka but rather some of the values that it represents, specifically a woman's consecration to her future husband and family, and the modesty and dignity this entails.
These are not "values" but the sick fantasies of a guy who is obviously suffers from jealousy issues and needs to feel he owns a woman in order to feel like a man. nope
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These are not "values" but the sick fantasies of a guy who is obviously suffers from jealousy issues and needs to feel he owns a woman in order to feel like a man.
you are living in a sick world, a world where men know only one thing about women that women have breasts! women are harassed all over the world, believe it or not men are not going to change!!
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women are harassed all over the world, believe it or not men are not going to change!!
Wrong.
Are you a woman? Are you a woman who has lived in different parts of the world, different countries and continents?
If no, I'd say you are not really authorized to claim experience and knowledge on this issue.As I said, I never get harassed in my homecountry, no matter how I dress; whereas in Egypt it is a daily occurence that has a very negative impact on my life -- and that of other women, for that matter.
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Wrong.
Are you a woman? Are you a woman who has lived in different parts of the world, different countries and continents?
If no, I'd say you are not really authorized to claim experience and knowledge on this issue.no Im not a woman. but due to my work Ive been in interaction with women all over the world for last 5 years now, and I do ask questions to everyone, moreover I read news, exceptions might be there but when we say all over the world we refer to majority and not each city and town.
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I read news, exceptions might be there but when we say all over the world we refer to majority and not each city and town.
I can only repeat myself -- there is a huge difference depending on which part of the world you are in. In my country, street harassment is basically non-existent. In Cairo, it is a very serious social problem that affects many women on a daily basis. So, no, men are not "the same allover the world". In some countries, they have learned that women have to be respected and that a man has no right to harass them -- regardless of what clothes they are wearing. In other countries men believe it is their right to leer at and harass women, they are being taught from early childhood on that men are "wolves" who can't control their instincts if they see a pretty woman, and that women are always at fault because of the way they dress, the way they walk, or simply because they don't stay at home.
You don't have to believe this if you don't want to; you can continue to accuse me of lying or exaggerating or mispresenting things, but that doesn't change the facts.
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You don't have to believe this if you don't want to; you can continue to accuse me of lying or exaggerating or mispresenting things, but that doesn't change the facts.
the great Maulana google is here just name your country please!
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Peace, David,
no offense, but this thread is about the particular experiences and feelings related to taking off the hijab, not about whether it's an obligation or not.
I was talking about Egypt, and there it does NOT matter how you dress. You do get more harassment when you don't wear a headscarf, or when your ankles / forearms can be seen. But in general, all women get harassed, even those who wear niqab.
Salam Leyna, as you know I have been harassed here a few times, mostly while I was wearing hijab. Since taking it off i still am harassed but I have 'the look' apparently that stops them in their tracks now, while wearing it I did not have 'the look' as it made me feel I should keep my head down and not cause a scene like a nice pious muslimah, bah!
I have said before somewhere that back in my own country I could go to Sainsbury's in shorts and strappy top and not get a second or even first glance, no problems at all, here in Egypt even though I still cover from the neck down I still get looks and unwanted comments, until I give 'the look' ;D I have stopped carrying the knife now but will again when ramadan comes.
All this I put down to living in a repressed society where it is more concerning what people say than what is right.
I get looks from girls here too now, the look up and down like im some piece of dirt and they have weighed me up and judged me from a glance. Girls that wear 2 or 3 scarves at a time with the tightest glittery tops and sprayed on jeans with 'the walk' that my arse just will not do!
the other night there were 4 of us girls went out to dinner. 2 Muslim, 2 non-muslim. the other muslim was fully covered in black abaya scarf socks etc, I was wearing a long dress to the floor that has a sewn in poncho-type top that comes down my arms, at points my forearms were showing from halfway down. The other 2 girls were also covered and appropriately dressed. We were walking behind two girls wearing the sprayed on jeans, glitter tops and hijabs and watching how they walk that is learnt to bring attention. We tried doing the same but ended up rolling about laughing at each others attempts rotfl When I got home I was telling hubby about it, he said the girls practice this in a mirror and with each other so they get 'the walk' just right to look good. I have never seen hypocrisy in the western world like I see here.
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the great Maulana google is here just name your country please!
anyone else who claims that "In my country, street harassment is basically non-existent." please come forward and tell us the name of country and get our appreciations! bravo
and Leyna how many cities are there in your country and in how many cities you have experience of living there?
And those on facebook would like to join http//www.stopstreetharassment.com/
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Peace, David,
no offense, but this thread is about the particular experiences and feelings related to taking off the hijab, not about whether it's an obligation or not.
Peace Leyna
Thank you for your reply.
I know that this thread is not about whether Hijab is an obligation or not, but i wrote it since i thought it was relevant to the rest of the things I wrote in my post. And when it comes to the article i posted, as I have already said i do not agree with everything the authour says. And if I am going to explain further I actually do not agree with most of what the author says. But the thing i thought was interesting was the comparison between two extremes (Bikini and Burka).
I was talking about Egypt, and there it does NOT matter how you dress. You do get more harassment when you don't wear a headscarf, or when your ankles / forearms can be seen. But in general, all women get harassed, even those who wear niqab.
First you say that it does not matter how you dress, then you say that you do get more harassment when you don't wear headscarf or when your ankles/forearms can be seen. What you are saying is a contradiction. Because you first say that it does not matter, then you say that it matters.
I believe it does matter how someone dress. And the Quran backs up my claim
Quran 3359
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they will not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.I got a some questions for you
What do you view as modest clothing? How do you think a woman should dress in the summer?
What is feminism? How is your view of feminism? And are you a feminist?
Have you read the history about feminism?
Do you believe that a person can support women rights without being a feminist?
Feminism has done much good for society. This is a fact. But did you know that feminism has been negative for the society as well?
Thanks.
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Since taking it off i still am harassed but I have 'the look' apparently that stops them in their tracks now, while wearing it I did not have 'the look' as it made me feel I should keep my head down and not cause a scene like a nice pious muslimah, bah!
LOL. I remember during my first and second year in Egypt, I was also very timid, but after that I developed a slightly different attitude. I don't feel apologetic for not being covered anymore, I don't feel apologetic for being Western. If people feel they have the right to look down on me without even knowing me, just based on their twisted preconceptions, believing that all uncovered women are sluts and all Western women are basically prostitutes, that just makes me feel sorry for them, and I also feel a lot of contempt for such an attitude.
I also noticed that the harassment has become slightly less since I changed my attitude and feel more self-confident. However, it is still too much and for me still constitutes one of the major downsides of living in Egypt.
I have said before somewhere that back in my own country I could go to Sainsbury's in shorts and strappy top and not get a second or even first glance, no problems at all, here in Egypt even though I still cover from the neck down I still get looks and unwanted comments, until I give 'the look' .
Same here. I am currently back home, and it is very hot at the moment. One of the things I tremendously enjoy is being able to just go out in a skirt and a tank top, being able to feel the air and the sun on your skin without ever having to worry about people looking at you or getting harassed. In Cairo, I am always covered from head to toe but can't even walk to the store around the corner without being leered at, commented upon, harassed etc.
I get looks from girls here too now, the look up and down like im some piece of dirt and they have weighed me up and judged me from a glance. Girls that wear 2 or 3 scarves at a time with the tightest glittery tops and sprayed on jeans with 'the walk' that my arse just will not do!
Yessss ... those looks used to intimidate me so much in the beginning. Now, as I said above, I just feel sorry for those girls. And if they stare at me for too long I just ask them in Arabic whether there is something wrong with me or whether they've never seen a woman. That usually shuts them up.
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LOL. I remember during my first and second year in Egypt, I was also very timid, but after that I developed a slightly different attitude. I don't feel apologetic for not being covered anymore, I don't feel apologetic for being Western. If people feel they have the right to look down on me without even knowing me, just based on their twisted preconceptions, believing that all uncovered women are sluts and all Western women are basically prostitutes, that just makes me feel sorry for them, and I also feel a lot of contempt for such an attitude.
I also noticed that the harassment has become slightly less since I changed my attitude and feel more self-confident. However, it is still too much and for me still constitutes one of the major downsides of living in Egypt.
i agree with you about the girls, it is sad and contemptableI think the attitude I have now which brings in 'the look' that stops them going further is an attitude you have to learn living here, everytime I have given 'the look' I have had 'ahh you living here' ;D
Same here. I am currently back home, and it is very hot at the moment. One of the things I tremendously enjoy is being able to just go out in a skirt and a tank top, being able to feel the air and the sun on your skin without ever having to worry about people looking at you or getting harassed. In Cairo, I am always covered from head to toe but can't even walk to the store around the corner without being leered at, commented upon, harassed etc.
Yessss ... those looks used to intimidate me so much in the beginning. Now, as I said above, I just feel sorry for those girls. And if they stare at me for too long I just ask them in Arabic whether there is something wrong with me or whether they've never seen a woman. That usually shuts them up.
I swear one day I will ask in Arabic if they want a picture! ;D I will ask hubby how to say 'have you never seen a white woman before?' though
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Peace, David.
And if I am going to explain further I actually do not agree with most of what the author says.
Alhamdullilah.
I believe it does matter how someone dress. And the Quran backs up my claim
David, I agree that it does matter how someone dresses. But I get a bit sensitive if people come up with the argument that "correct clothing" prevents harassment. That has to do with my personal experience of living in Egypt, because there is a heated debate about sexual harassment going on there. And part of the problem is that people don't acknowledge the need for education, manners etc. but claim that the problem would be solved if only women covered up more. A few examples of this attitude have been given earlier in this thread -- for example the advertisement that depicts women as lollipops and men as flies.
yuckWhat do you view as modest clothing? How do you think a woman should dress in the summer?
I believe it is not possible to make a general statement because it depends on the country, the circumstances and so on. As I said, I dress differently in Germany than I dress in Egypt. And how I dress also depends on whether I go to work, shopping, visiting friends, a beach and so on.
Actually, the verse you posted is very interesting in that regard. I always thought the fact that there is no specific length of clothes being defined in that verse is not a coincidence but a very meaningful fact. Because, as I said above, what is being considered modest or provocative depends on so many factors. Thus it is left to the individual to decide according to the circumstances / situation what they find appropriate.
What is feminism? How is your view of feminism? And are you a feminist?
Yes, I would most definitely consider myself a feminist. For me, that basically means that I believe men and women should have equal rights and that no person should be discriminated against, or have certain tasks / roles forced upon them based on their gender. I believe that gender discrimination and stereotyping harms both, men and women alike.
So it's very simple. A detailled discussion about feminism would definitely go to far in this thread, I believe.
Have you read the history about feminism?
Yes.
Do you believe that a person can support women rights without being a feminist?
Yes, of course. Also, I know many people who are definitely feminists as per my understanding of the word, but they would never describe themselves as such. There are a lot of misconceptions and negative connotations associated with the word, so some people do not want to be associated with this particular term.
Feminism has done much good for society. This is a fact. But did you know that feminism has been negative for the society as well?
No. And I don't believe that. But maybe we should leave the discussion about feminism for another thread since this is the "taking off hijab" discussion.
peace
