about polygamy
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But also to have more children. This is common in tribal societies where the more people the stronger the tribe and family. There is nothing wrong with polygamy if the culture supports that. Marriage means different things to different societies and cultural norms. The Koran did not come to change society. Thats Sunni talk. It came to change people's religion and ethics hence the emphasis on treatment on the Koran regarding wives.
Polygamy actually benefits the wealthy who can easily support more than one wife. In fact a caliph or king can support 100s of wives and when there is no even wealth distribution becoming part of a harem is almost the only choice for a woman. Polygamy does not benefit poor honest hard working men, let alone does it reflect the purpose of marriage from God nor does it reflect in any measure the notion of love.
We know many prophets, including Muhammad had more than one wife. But the question here is equal treatment at least to the best of one's ability. If some societies do not approve of that then they don't have to allow it. There is nothing called you can not marry more than four wives. Thats Sunni talk. The verse never said that. Tow, three and four is just an expression of polygamy but not a limitation. The Koran uses such expression.
One thing I don't think Muslims understand is that those prophets while favored by God did do many bad things that God was displeased with. The relationship between God and the OT biblical figures is more complex than Muslims are led to believe. It is not a simple matter of 'oh he is a prophet therefore he is sinless'. Many of those prophets did many evil things.The reality is these practices were always there and were there in many societies in Africa, Middle East or even Asia. The Koran came to change people's religion and not culture or practice unless its oppressive such as burying alive of daughters etc. If societies have problems with polygamy there is no reason why they can't abolish it if they chose or they can allow it if they chose. Can women marry more than one husband? have not seen any reason form the Koran why this can't be allowed also. If this is the cultural norm so be it.
I think it is a socially destructive practice that only has merit in extreme circumstances. Yes there may be times and places where populations are imbalanced. Overall it is sexist, breeds jealousy both from outside and within and never fosters love and certain is not what God intended for marriage.In haj we know that many of these rituals were practiced by pagans and many other societies have religious rituals and rites. The Koran never came to change that but change to whom we should worship and not how. Thatw why Sunni always ask how do we do this and how then do we do that. These things probably existed before Koran and the Koran wen't along with it. The same case with food restriction for the Israelites. The Koran said that these restrictions were there before Moses was even before so God might have wen't along with that. In other times it can be a trial as the case with the Sabbath. The Koran says the Sabbath was introduced as a trial for the Israelites as the case of the direction of Qibla was a trial. It then made it clear that it was there for a specific purpose and it does not reflect a religious tradition as verse 2177 tells us.
You pretty much have to ignore the New Testament and Jesus teachings on rituals and food. Even if you stop short of saying Jesus is God, there is so much that Jesus taught that Mohammad simply overrides again. Considering you disagree with the Sunni then I have to question on what basis because you are also arguing that Mohammad was right and Jesus was wrong. Either ritual is important or it is not.Sure believe in God and one God and sure question the hadith but don't impose polygamy on the world again. Let's learn about love and one way to learn about love given to us by God is marriage and his intention, which is commitment to one person.
I concede there can be practical reasons for polygamy however these are extreme situations that do not apply to our lives today and rarely if ever applied in history.
It's simple to disprove polygamy - would you want your partner to be cheating on you?
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Polygamy actually benefits the wealthy who can easily support more than one wife. In fact a caliph or king can support 100s of wives and when there is no even wealth distribution becoming part of a harem is almost the only choice for a woman. Polygamy does not benefit poor honest hard working men, let alone does it reflect the purpose of marriage from God nor does it reflect in any measure the notion of love.
One thing I don't think Muslims understand is that those prophets while favored by God did do many bad things that God was displeased with. The relationship between God and the OT biblical figures is more complex than Muslims are led to believe. It is not a simple matter of 'oh he is a prophet therefore he is sinless'. Many of those prophets did many evil things.
I think it is a socially destructive practice that only has merit in extreme circumstances. Yes there may be times and places where populations are imbalanced. Overall it is sexist, breeds jealousy both from outside and within and never fosters love and certain is not what God intended for marriage.
You pretty much have to ignore the New Testament and Jesus teachings on rituals and food. Even if you stop short of saying Jesus is God, there is so much that Jesus taught that Mohammad simply overrides again. Considering you disagree with the Sunni then I have to question on what basis because you are also arguing that Mohammad was right and Jesus was wrong. Either ritual is important or it is not.Sure believe in God and one God and sure question the hadith but don't impose polygamy on the world again. Let's learn about love and one way to learn about love given to us by God is marriage and his intention, which is commitment to one person.
I concede there can be practical reasons for polygamy however these are extreme situations that do not apply to our lives today and rarely if ever applied in history.
It's simple to disprove polygamy - would you want your partner to be cheating on you?
If prophets did evil things than why does God praise them in Koran? Plus being sinless is Sunni doctrine not Koranic doctrine. The Koran tells us about this. But to say they are evil than they owuld not have been praised. The Koran spends a lot of ink praising the prophets.
Plus polygamy is not cheating. My mother came from a polygamous marriage and it did not work well. Her father had two wives. And her uncles also had polygamous marriages. It worked out well for them. But I do not detect any propblems in my mother's life or her brothers and siters as some here claim. the reality is polygamy is all about what kind of husband you are dealing with. Many monogamous marriages as I said fail and many are involved with domestic violence. Should we the condemn monogamous marriages?
Also people here keep looking at it from a sexual angle. This shows that many here have no real experience with polygamous marriages. Many of my mother's family came from polygamous parents yet they each have their own personality and not one of them had problems psychologically although there were problems nearly always because of some sort of favoratism by the husband. So I can relate with the verses of the Koran.
I still think many are confusing marraige with sex and confusing polygamy with multiple sex partners. Thats a very narrow way of looking at marriages. There is more to marriage than sex.
Plus who said about imposing polygamy? In fact my argument is polygamy or monogamy is not the Koran's intent. Its clear the Koran favors monogamy since it makes it easier to manage but not always. Today the divorce rate in many Sunni nations like UAE and Saudi Arabia is reaching 50%. Many women believe marriage is outdated and some have become lesbians. I think it all depends on character.
There is still some Sunni mindset. If I don't agree with something than it must be bad. Or maybe they have a different experience about this subject than I do.
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One thing I don't think Muslims understand is that those prophets while favored by God did do many bad things that God was displeased with. The relationship between God and the OT biblical figures is more complex than Muslims are led to believe. It is not a simple matter of 'oh he is a prophet therefore he is sinless'. Many of those prophets did many evil things.
I'm totally with you, there's no logic to thinking person in the scriptures must be perfect and without sin. But then, Christianity is even worse than Islam when it comes to this, right? There are lots bits of the NT where Jesus comes across as breaking a commandment or two. Wouldn't it be better if both Christianity and Islam accepted that just because a servant of God receives God's grace, it doesn't mean they don't make any mistakes?
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If prophets did evil things than why does God praise them in Koran? Plus being sinless is Sunni doctrine not Koranic doctrine. The Koran tells us about this. But to say they are evil than they owuld not have been praised. The Koran spends a lot of ink praising the prophets.
Each person has to come to their own conclusions there. My view is that the world was a much more violent and sinful place and the violence in the Old Testament is more about the survival of God's people and ultimately our survival. The polygamy of prophets in the OT and other sins are often frowned upon by God and punishment for sins done by prophets occurs. Ultimately God's plan of redemption was more important and God worked with wayward people that had hearts that were still open. But I wholly think it is detrimental to society today if we view our the past and past historical figures uncritically - something that just occurs with Mohammad to often.
Plus polygamy is not cheating. My mother came from a polygamous marriage and it did not work well. Her father had two wives. And her uncles also had polygamous marriages. It worked out well for them. But I do not detect any propblems in my mother's life or her brothers and siters as some here claim. the reality is polygamy is all about what kind of husband you are dealing with. Many monogamous marriages as I said fail and many are involved with domestic violence. Should we the condemn monogamous marriages?
There are numerous ways to live our lives and raise our children. Two loving homosexuals can do it, so why be surprised if a polygamous family raises normal children. It's just a shame that one man did not commit to one woman and vice versa and teach those values.Also people here keep looking at it from a sexual angle. This shows that many here have no real experience with polygamous marriages. Many of my mother's family came from polygamous parents yet they each have their own personality and not one of them had problems psychologically although there were problems nearly always because of some sort of favoratism by the husband. So I can relate with the verses of the Koran.
I'm more interested in the lack of love for other. One person with multiple partners clearly is not committed and learning about love.I still think many are confusing marraige with sex and confusing polygamy with multiple sex partners. Thats a very narrow way of looking at marriages. There is more to marriage than sex.
Obviously.Plus who said about imposing polygamy? In fact my argument is polygamy or monogamy is not the Koran's intent. Its clear the Koran favors monogamy since it makes it easier to manage but not always. Today the divorce rate in many Sunni nations like UAE and Saudi Arabia is reaching 50%. Many women believe marriage is outdated and some have become lesbians. I think it all depends on character.
I don't understand your point here. A high divorce rate more likely indicates lack of love and commitment to the marriage by one or both parties. Personally marriage should stop being a cultural institution and just become a religious institution again and let people freely choose again. -
I'm totally with you, there's no logic to thinking person in the scriptures must be perfect and without sin. But then, Christianity is even worse than Islam when it comes to this, right? There are lots bits of the NT where Jesus comes across as breaking a commandment or two. Wouldn't it be better if both Christianity and Islam accepted that just because a servant of God receives God's grace, it doesn't mean they don't make any mistakes?
Liquiddharma the problem's are
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that Christians think Jesus is God. I as a Christian can't reconcile sinful prophets after Jesus.
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and from my understanding of Islam, Muslims won't allow for the notion of more prophets after Mohammad whereas it seems entirely plausible that if mankind loses its way (as it can) then there would be a need for more prophets. What's more Muslims can't criticise Mohammad because it basically invalidates Islam.
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and if we are both wrong and just following ancient superstitions that have nothing to do with our actual lives (we can all admit privately that that can sometimes seem true) too many people are persecuted in families, cultures and society simply because they don't believe what we think they should believe.
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I'm totally with you, there's no logic to thinking person in the scriptures must be perfect and without sin. But then, Christianity is even worse than Islam when it comes to this, right? There are lots bits of the NT where Jesus comes across as breaking a commandment or two. Wouldn't it be better if both Christianity and Islam accepted that just because a servant of God receives God's grace, it doesn't mean they don't make any mistakes?
I think because my grandfather and his brothers had polygamous marriages so I see the issue differently. I don't see polygamy the way some here might do. This is the problem with value judgement is that its subjective and it depends on personal experiences.
Anyways there is no evidence from scriptures that polygamy is a sin. Why then see the prophets having commited some mistake or sin because of polygamy? Prophets are not sinnless as the Koran tells us. If so why would prophets pray for their own forgiveness? This is Chriatian or Islamic doctrine but not scripture doctrine.
The question is on what basis are we saying that polygamy is a sin or something evil? My experience does not see it that way. Some polygamous marriages work and some don't just like many monogamous marriages work and some don't. Maybe its an ideology or it is the idea of polygamy that people don't like. But there is no evidence from scripture that it is a sin. The Koran clearly does not encourage polygamy and favors monogamy because of bias by the husband. I can relate to that since my experience has been that this issue more than any other ruins a polygamous marriage. But its not the same as adultery or abandonement. Anyways I am not too sure many here have any experience regarding polygamy. The idea that polygamous marraiges create some dysfunctional families is simply not true, at least from my experience.
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I'm totally with you, there's no logic to thinking person in the scriptures must be perfect and without sin. But then, Christianity is even worse than Islam when it comes to this, right? There are lots bits of the NT where Jesus comes across as breaking a commandment or two. Wouldn't it be better if both Christianity and Islam accepted that just because a servant of God receives God's grace, it doesn't mean they don't make any mistakes?
I completely agree with you. Jesus had a temper, which showed itself when he overturned the tables and hit people in the temple. He was also quite rude to his mother at times. So he broke at least two commandment. However you look at it Jesus was a human being (at least in part) with all the feelings and emotions that go with being human.
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The idea that polygamous marraiges create some dysfunctional families is simply not true
Yes, it is. Please see the study I referred to on the previous page. Also, there are other studies out there, for example about polygamous marriages in Mormon families, which clearly prove the negative effect on children.
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I think because my grandfather and his brothers had polygamous marriages so I see the issue differently. I don't see polygamy the way some here might do. This is the problem with value judgement is that its subjective and it depends on personal experiences.
Anyways there is no evidence from scriptures that polygamy is a sin. Why then see the prophets having commited some mistake or sin because of polygamy? Prophets are not sinnless as the Koran tells us. If so why would prophets pray for their own forgiveness? This is Chriatian or Islamic doctrine but not scripture doctrine.
The question is on what basis are we saying that polygamy is a sin or something evil? My experience does not see it that way. Some polygamous marriages work and some don't just like many monogamous marriages work and some don't. Maybe its an ideology or it is the idea of polygamy that people don't like. But there is no evidence from scripture that it is a sin. The Koran clearly does not encourage polygamy and favors monogamy because of bias by the husband. I can relate to that since my experience has been that this issue more than any other ruins a polygamous marriage. But its not the same as adultery or abandonement. Anyways I am not too sure many here have any experience regarding polygamy. The idea that polygamous marraiges create some dysfunctional families is simply not true, at least from my experience.
I agree, I don't think polygamous marriages are necessarily "evil". But, I also don't see them as something that should be practiced by everyone, or that they should be seen as the "norm" in today's societies ... the problem seems to stem from the fact that men will have more than 1 wife just because he can, and he doesn't treat them equally or fair. I couldn't fathom sharing my husband, but we didn't enter our marriage thinking that it'd be polygamous. It does have its purpose, and it depends what the wife wants out of the marriage as well.
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I completely agree with you. Jesus had a temper, which showed itself when he overturned the tables and hit people in the temple. He was also quite rude to his mother at times. So he broke at least two commandment. However you look at it Jesus was a human being (at least in part) with all the feelings and emotions that go with being human.
Now which emote best applies? ??? or rotfl oh here it is whatever or yeah
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Jesus addresses his mother, aka the virgin Mary, John 2v4 - "Woman, what concern is that of mine? My hour has not come yet".
10 Commandments of Moses in Exodus - "Honour thy father and thy mother".
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Salamunalaykom. Instead of just copying and pasting information, i suggest you research statistics for yourself. THERE IS MORE MEN IN THE WORLD THAN WOMEN. Yes there are countries with more women than men, such as Australia. From birth up until about age 50, men and women are equal in numbers, but 50 onwards men dye off before women. So there is more old women than old men, so thats why there is more women. But please, dont act like muslim men go around and marry these old women. In countries such as China and India, there is more MEN than WOMEN.
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In Islam, limited polygyny is permitted; whereas polyandry is completely prohibited.
Depends on your interpretation.
There is really no Quranic verse to back that.In fact, there are societies in places like Indonesia where this 'polyandry' does occur and the group, though Islamic in nature, is matriarchal in structure. It isn't common but it does happen.
It's also been documented in Tibet and other regions with similar social structuring.
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Jesus addresses his mother, aka the virgin Mary, John 2v4 - "Woman, what concern is that of mine? My hour has not come yet".
10 Commandments of Moses in Exodus - "Honour thy father and thy mother".
Salam,
As far as I know, the use of the word "Women" alone can not be something rude. Anyways, what I always found baffling is how right after this, he gives a demonstration of water to wine conversion. His mom did not even force him or request him any further, he does it all on his own. He just said that he doesnt care, and its not even an appropriate time, yet he goes on to make wine out of water. May be further study on the scriptures will reveal more details.
Peace
----------------- Student of Allah
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Saying "treating each wife equally" is stupid because it can mean equally badly. Polygamy is stupid, a man only has one penis so of course if he's f**king a different woman he isn't being a husband to his first wife.
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Well, nice try!
But what about DIVORCEED and WIDOWS who are almost forced to either stay SINGLE for (maybe) the whole rest of their lives or (“alternatively”) to go and (try to) maybe SEDUCE their dream partner just because the society (societIES) in which they live is (are) seem to have agreed on “MONOgamy” as a rule..?
Ingrid, I’m NOT joking; I appreciate the fact that You censored (most of) the “f word”, but I wonder WHY You didn’t return our above greetings..? Salam means Peace, ‘alaykoum means “upon You”, did You just NOT know it, or have You left out greeting us back ON PURPOSE..?
Moreover what about the fact that the author of the article I shared actually TOUCHED the argument raised by You (although shortly) + he even wrote that he does NOT see a problem in female Polygamy per se, BUT he also mentioned that according to scientific research a woman is MORE LIKELY to catch a Papillomavirus (for those of You who do NOT know it.. That’s a dangerous disease) if she has actual intimate relations with more than “only” 1 man within an ‘idda/ a specific TIME PERIOD..?
Take care & I’m looking forward to Your answer,
Salamun ‘alaykoum