Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah

Mazhar

Peace "Rajah",
The point your missing is that theres a difference between Muhammad the man and Muhammad the messenger. Muhammad wasnt a messenger 24 hrs a day. ONLY AT SPECIFIC TIMES WHILST HE DELIVERS THE PURE MESSAGE OF GOD WAS HE A MESSENGER AND IN THAT RELATION HES TO BE OBEYED BECAUSE AT THAT MOMENT HIS HUMAN ACTIVITY IS SHUT OFF AND GOD IS DIRECTLY COMMUNICATING THROUGH HIM. The folloiwng verses prove this
No believing man or believing woman, if GOD and His messenger issue any command, has any choice regarding that command. Anyone who disobeys GOD and His messenger has gone far astray.
And then the very next verse

Srange! A Judge of the Superior Courts of Pakistan and USA is a Judge all the time, notwithstanding where is he at a given point in time. But the Messenger of Allah is not the Messenger 24 hours a day!!!

Ayisha

We move on further (I am trying to take the translations for the verses according to progressive muslims)

Progressive Muslims"
So that you may believe in God and His messenger, and that you may support Him, honour Him, and glorify Him, morning and night. verse 489

"Honour" him, o; oh; a problem there for you Zenje and "glorify" him

This verse is talking about GOD, not Muhammed! respect (not support) honor and glorify morning and night, glorify is ONLY for God

Mazhar

This verse is talking about GOD, not Muhammed! respect (not support) honor and glorify morning and night, glorify is ONLY for God

On whose authority have you said this? Put the Arabic text first and then please tell us what that says.

Ayisha

On whose authority have you said this? Put the Arabic text first and then please tell us what that says.

How does one change the size in here? ???

In order that ye (O men) may believe in Allah and His Messenger, that ye may assist respect and honour Him, and celebrate His praise morning and evening.

every instance of Glorify in Quran is referring to GOD, we glorify ONLY God, we celebrate the praises morning and night ONLY of God.

The word translated as assist or support is to do this in a RESPECTFUL manner, one is to respect, honour glorify HIM.

please Mazhar I would be interested in your views and your translation in how you can show me this is meant for Muhammed and not God. (simple terms please!) peace

Mazhar

How does one change the size in here?

In order that ye (O men) may believe in Allah and His Messenger, that ye may assist respect and honour Him, and celebrate His praise morning and evening.

every instance of Glorify in Quran is referring to GOD, we glorify ONLY God, we celebrate the praises morning and night ONLY of God.

That is good, that to understand a particular Ayat, if some difficulty arises, due to particles used therein, in determining their type and thus meanings, one should take recourse to other Aayat of Qur'aan or the context itself.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.9.gif
so that you people may incline yourselves to believe in Allah and the Messenger of Him,

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.9a.gif
and so that you people may protectively shield him with dignity and revere him/the Messenger

Had the translators taken care to have first seen the perception and meanings infolded in the Root they might not have attributed the Pronoun to Allah.

Read this part of Ayat with 7157
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.157k.gif
Therefore/for reason those who accepted/believed in him and they revered him and helped him

Captain_Awesome

Since reasonable time has been passed, and No opposing comment was posted, therefore i take it for granted that we all agree that Allah has blessed some messangers more than others and has raised the ranks of some more than others.

And who are you to decide who Allah has blessed more? The Quran clearly states that we are not to differentiate between prophets. They are all the same to us.

Raaajah

And who are you to decide who Allah has blessed more? The Quran clearly states that we are not to differentiate between prophets. They are all the same to us.

Awesome! it would have been better if you had read all the thread, and particularly the Ayats regarding the subject, before passing on your valuable comments!

Ayisha

That is good, that to understand a particular Ayat, if some difficulty arises, due to particles used therein, in determining their type and thus meanings, one should take recourse to other Aayat of Qur'aan or the context itself.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.9.gif
so that you people may incline yourselves to believe in Allah and the Messenger of Him,

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.9a.gif
and so that you people may protectively shield him with dignity and revere him/the Messenger

Had the translators taken care to have first seen the perception and meanings infolded in the Root they might not have attributed the Pronoun to Allah.

Read this part of Ayat with 7157
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.157k.gif
Therefore/for reason those who accepted/believed in him and they revered him and helped him

which word there says 'rever' him?

I accept we are to honour, respect and support (when he was alive) Muhammed but not glorify or rever, it makes a total mockery of the many verses we are told to make no distinction and those that say he is only a messenger to deliver a message and those that warn what the christians did in giving Jesus divinity. Saying this means put Muhammed on some higher pedestal than other prophets ignores those verses and the warnings given.

Captain_Awesome

Awesome! it would have been better if you had read all the thread, and particularly the Ayats regarding the subject, before passing on your valuable comments!

You would look a lot less stupid if the post you just replied to would have contained some sort of argument or refutation. I asked you a simple question, and I do not intend to search through seven pages for something you can sum up in a couple of sentences.

Pro tip Drop the hostility. It makes you look insecure.

Peace.

Ayisha

You would look a lot less stupid if the post you just replied to would have contained some sort of argument or refutation. I asked you a simple question, and I do not intend to search through seven pages for something you can sum up in a couple of sentences.

Pro tip Drop the hostility. It makes you look insecure.

Peace.

Agreed

Raj
First we would like to consider what is the meaning of word "Muhammad" it is "the praised one" in Arabic.
now we move to Quranic verse 472

Yusuf Ali
But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.

to dismay of those who do not like Muhammad to be praised word "Muhammad" is used in this very verse.

Allah himself calls the Prophet in Quran by the name "Muhammad" which means "the Praised one". Allah ho Akbar!
his NAME was Muhammed BEFORE prophet hood, why would Allah call him anything else?

Raj
You quoted verse 2870 but this verse is about oneness of Allah and no one is raising the status of Prophet to be that of God.
What we are discussing is the due respect for the Prophet and Love for him.
But you ARE raising his status by adding him to call to prayer and to the prayer itself and praising him as you do Allah. No one is disputing love and respect for the prophets, for ALL prophets, just not to raise one higher than the rest.

Raj
So it is clear no one is making Muhammad an Idol; but
we can not take away the respect and Honor he deserves according to Quran, and again Quran says

Progressive Muslims"
Say "If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your clan, and money which you have gathered, and a trade which you would fear if it declines, and homes which you find pleasing; if these are dearer to you than God and His messenger and striving in the cause of God, then wait until God brings His decision. God does not guide the wicked people

I am sorry but this is not my translation if sounds hard on those who do not think Muhammad as dear and criticise those who Love Muhammad and respect him.

His messenger can also mean ANY of them as Allah does not say 'Muhammed' specifically. In glorifying Muhammed to be more special and more deserving of love than others you ARE making an idol of him whether you think so or not.

Boost
Love for the Prophet, respect for the prophet is quite different from Shirk.
Do you love and respect them all equally?

Raj
Yes I have to because Quran says it, but than again Allah in Quran points out

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the (Prophetic) Messenger of Allah and the Last of the Prophets; and Allah has full knowledge of all things. (3340)

He is Prophet and Messenger that makes him higher than those who are only messengers or only Prophets and than he is the Last Prophetic messenger among those who were both Prophets and messengers.
This does NOT make him higher and you are contradicting Allah and your first sentence, 'yes i HAVE to, BUT'

Mazhar

which word there says 'rever' him?

I accept we are to honour, respect and support (when he was alive) Muhammed but not glorify or rever, it makes a total mockery of the many verses we are told to make no distinction and those that say he is only a messenger to deliver a message and those that warn what the christians did in giving Jesus divinity. Saying this means put Muhammed on some higher pedestal than other prophets ignores those verses and the warnings given.

Put mouse on this Arabic word which is singular of the plural verb used in the verse, your dictionary will give you this meanings;

respect, venerate, revere.

Mazhar

For urdu readers

Ayisha

Put mouse on this Arabic word which is singular of the plural verb used in the verse, your dictionary will give you this meanings;

respect, venerate, revere.

ok, respect is different to venerate or revere

saints are venerated which raises them to a higher level akin to God.

1 to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion
synonyms see revere

Origin
1615?25; < L venertus, ptp. of venerr to solicit the goodwill of (a god), worship, revere,

re?vere
1
?verb (used with object), -vered, -ver?ing.
to regard with respect tinged with awe;

Origin
1655?65; < L reverr, equiv. to re- re- + verr to stand in awe of, fear, feel reverence

This is why this can ONLY mean God.

Raaajah

Awesome

You would look a lot less stupid if the post you just replied to would have contained some sort of argument or refutation. I asked you a simple question, and I do not intend to search through seven pages for something you can sum up in a couple of sentences.

Pro tip Drop the hostility. It makes you look insecure.

Peace

In normal circumstanses your post doesnot need slightest attention, but as Ayisha has agreed to you, therefore let me respond it you once again,
You will find the question to your answer in this thread, how can you address such a lazy person, who doesnot bothers to read the thread and starts asking questions, which have already been answered in the thread.
It is not me, it is Allah who says, that some are blessed more than others.

And who are you to decide who Allah has blessed more

Raaajah

CaptainAwesome for your eyes only

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit.

and if you want to know who is at the higher rank, read the thread please.

Ayisha

CaptainAwesome for your eyes only

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit.

and if you want to know who is at the higher rank, read the thread please.

then based on that we should revere Moses more as God actually spoke to him or Jesus more as God gave him miracles. GOD may have blessed some WITH more things such as actually hearing God speak or being able to perform miracles by God's leave, but it is not saying that WE should because there are numerous verses telling you NOT to distinguish one from another. This is saying that GOD Himself gave some prophets more than others, not that we should raise one to a higher level than others. Being blessed with more FROM GOD does not make one higher, it just means that God gave some more 'blessings' in the form of miracles etc than others.

I have been 'blessed' with 3 kids does that mean I have been 'blessed' to a higher level than those with only 1 or 2? Should those with only 1 or 2 revere me for being 'blessed' with more kids?

To raise Muhammed to a higher level than other prophets is contradictory to those verses that tell you not to distinguish (this is God telling US, not God saying what HE did) one from another. Quran tells you they are all MEN like us, human like us, and warns of what the Christians did with Jesus who was also a man like them but they REVERED him above others and made him into GOD in the flesh.

Raaajah

To raise Muhammed to a higher level than other prophets is contradictory to those verses that tell you not to distinguish....

It only feels contradictory because you have not read the whole thread yet.
But as of know can you or AWESOME deny this word of Allah

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit.

Allah Ho Akbar.

Ayisha

It only feels contradictory because you have not read the whole thread yet.
But as of know can you or AWESOME deny this word of Allah

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit.

Allah Ho Akbar.

You didnt read the rest of my post then?

Ok lets revere Moses and Jesus as they are the ones this verse claims to revere according to you

Honestly, i thought I left Muhammed worshippers behind when I joined this site, its seems they are still alive and fighting while in the disguise of God Aloners

Raaajah

You didnt read the rest of my post then?
Ok lets revere Moses and Jesus as they are the ones this verse claims to revere according to you
Honestly, i thought I left Muhammed worshippers behind when I joined this site, its seems they are still alive and fighting while in the disguise of God Aloners

may Allah give them more courage and stability in their love for the Messenger, to whom Allah calls "Mercy for All"

You have not read the Ayat with open heart and mind, ash, but i read your post.

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit......

Some messengers are more blessed then others, thus your and other Quran aloners claim becomes void.
God spoke to one.. this may be leads us to Musa
And Jesus supported with profound Miracles
But still after mentioning of these two, it says some are raised to higher RANKS.

Who are these for that I told you to read the thread but you won't.

One is offcourse Muhammad is peace is upon him

al-Quran
And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.

And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.

Allah Ho Akbar

Mazhar

ok, respect is different to venerate or revere

saints are venerated which raises them to a higher level akin to God.

1 to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion
synonyms see revere

Origin
1615?25; < L venertus, ptp. of venerr to solicit the goodwill of (a god), worship, revere,

re?vere
1
?verb (used with object), -vered, -ver?ing.
to regard with respect tinged with awe;

Origin
1655?65; < L reverr, equiv. to re- re- + verr to stand in awe of, fear, feel reverence

This is why this can ONLY mean God.

re?vere
(past and past participle re?vered, present participle re?ver?ing, 3rd person present singular re?veres)
transitive verb
treat somebody with admiring respect to regard somebody with admiration and deep respect

Microsoft? Encarta? 2006. ? 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation.

That is good, that to understand a particular Ayat, if some difficulty arises, due to particles used therein, in determining their type and thus meanings, one should take recourse to other Aayat of Qur'aan or the context itself.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.9.gif
so that you people may incline yourselves to believe in Allah and the Messenger of Him,

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.9a.gif
and so that you people may protectively shield him with dignity and revere him/the Messenger

Had the translators taken care to have first seen the perception and meanings infolded in the Root they might not have attributed the Pronoun to Allah.

Read this part of Ayat with 7157
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.157k.gif
Therefore/for reason those who accepted/believed in him and they revered him and helped him

First word for obvious reason can never be construed with reference to Allah. And then is Prefixed Conjunction particle which refers back to the person mentioned earlier. The first word is used for the Messenger in 7157. The verbal noun of verb is , in English its equivalent, near words would be adoration, reverence. When we mention him high and elevated, we don't do it at our own, but to reiterate what Allah has said about him;

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/094.%20Ash%20Shrah/94.4.gif
and We have since raised high for you the mention/remembrance/repute of you .

We will never be able to mention him in as dignified a manner as Allah mentions him. And unfortunate are those who do not wish to realize the elevated and exalted position of him.