Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah
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Please Mazhar do not lower yourself from the status higher than that of Raj that I have granted you and accuse me of bias, prejudice, blindness or hypocrisy. I am neither biased or prejudiced and why should I be? You think I have something against Muhammed specifically? If you do then you cannot be more wrong as I am against Christians also doing the same with Jesus, another prophet of God and that one I was raised with!
I could of course say exactly the same to you, that you also don't listen to Quran but to your own biases and prejudices for the elevated status granted by Allah, according to you, when there are numerous verses against US doing this. Maybe this is a left over bit of sunni-ism that you cant let go of.
Allah says HE has given some higher rank, he also says the same about some people too. He does not say that WE should see them as any different though.
I will give you, despite knowing you are an English lady, meanings of bias and prejuidice, but firt please tell me which was the thread where you had given your reservations and past experience about the christian days. I have checked this thread, it is not there, but I had glanced that somewhere.
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This is because that you wish not to listen to Qur'aan but to your own biases and prejudices against the elevated stature granted by Allah to some.
Please Mazhar do not lower yourself from the status higher than that of Raj that I have granted you and accuse me of bias, prejudice, blindness or hypocrisy. I am neither biased or prejudiced and why should I be?Do you think both red parts are/mean one and the same thing?
"Prejudice"- A performed opinion based on insufficient knowledge-Noun- earlier qualified by not to listen to Qur'aan that gives the complete knowlege.
Prejudiced-transitive verb-
"Bias"-an unfair preference.-Noun
as verb_to influence someone unfairly.
In my quote both are used as nouns, for reason of having glanced some post of you about past experience of christians.
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I will give you, despite knowing you are an English lady, meanings of bias and prejuidice, but firt please tell me which was the thread where you had given your reservations and past experience about the christian days. I have checked this thread, it is not there, but I had glanced that somewhere.
glanced it somewhere? you should have read it not glanced at it, it was directed at you.
its in the Azhan thread the recent one if thats the post you mean.
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However let me know that do really the English people equate bias and prejudice with blindness or hypocrisy?
No but you have mentioned munafiq and that you are following quran to not be one of them in reference to one of these threads which implied to me that I was, blindness was possibly raj. To say please do not do something doesnt necessary mean that you have done it.
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I will give you, despite knowing you are an English lady, meanings of bias and prejuidice, but firt please tell me which was the thread where you had given your reservations and past experience about the christian days. I have checked this thread, it is not there, but I had glanced that somewhere.
isn't that prejudice in itself to ASSUME that an english lady SHOULD HAVE some certain biases and prejudices based on her background?
well, i was never christian, and i second everything ayisha has said in this thread. do you want to examine my background now too, just in case? peace -
You have said it again.
You have the same arguement the hadithists have in accepting Muhammeds word, calling it Muhammeds words, Quran is the word of Allah and no one else, Muhammed is speaking the words of Allah not his own, he is confirming things with Allahs words, Allah is speaking through him, Allah says Muhammed has affirmed the messengers because Allah is telling you HE (Allah) is affirming the messengers through Muhammed, its not from the mind of Muhammed it is Allah speaking through him and that is where this problem lies in those who think that Muhammeds words are in there OR that everything he said in his life was from Allah. Muhammed said nothing from himself that is in Quran, not one single word, every word in it is from Allah just like a ventriloquist uses a doll, its not the doll speaking its the ventriloquist making the doll appear to speak.Red part will make traditionalists rejoice.
Allah is not speaking to us through him. He/Muhammad is speaking to us conveying the Kalam/Hadith of Allah, communicated to him. When someone speaks to others communicating some statement it is called his "". When people call the stories compiled by Hadith writers as "" of the Messenger, I say, that is not his "". His "" is Grand Qur'aan. And this is what Allah says not me I just conveyed His words;
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that undoubtedly that/Grand Qur'aan is certainly the Oral and written word/narration by the Exalted Messenger;Even a little change in describing something causes lot of difference in the perception that one may build in his mind. Without worrying much what traditionalists keep thinking and doing, we must not deviate from the straight words spoken by the Messenger of Allah. What he said, and is quoted in the Qur'aan, is that his life and death, i.e. every moment of his life, is for Allah-the Sustainer Lord of Worlds and that it is in line with what is stated in Qur'aan since he said I follow nothing but Qur'aan.
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isn't that prejudice in itself to ASSUME that an english lady SHOULD HAVE some certain biases and prejudices based on her background?
well, i was never christian, and i second everything ayisha has said in this thread. do you want to examine my background now too, just in case? peaceMadam,
Biases and prejudices are not something which could be injected into blood through a syringe. There is always a background-expereience which develops it.
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Red part will make traditionalists rejoice.
why? its saying the opposite of what they believe.Allah is not speaking to us through him. He/Muhammad is speaking to us conveying the Kalam/Hadith of Allah, communicated to him. When someone speaks to others communicating some statement it is called his "". When people call the stories compiled by Hadith writers as "" of the Messenger, I say, that is not his "". His "" is Grand Qur'aan. And this is what Allah says not me I just conveyed His words;
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that undoubtedly that/Grand Qur'aan is certainly the Oral and written word/narration by the Exalted Messenger;Even a little change in describing something causes lot of difference in the perception that one may build in his mind. Without worrying much what traditionalists keep thinking and doing, we must not deviate from the straight words spoken by the Messenger of Allah. What he said, and is quoted in the Qur'aan, is that his life and death, i.e. every moment of his life, is for Allah-the Sustainer Lord of Worlds and that it is in line with what is stated in Qur'aan since he said I follow nothing but Qur'aan.
brickwall
Then please read and explain this
Look at verses with his name in them
Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets and Allah has full knowledge of all things
Did muhammed change this and say 'I am not the father of any of you' and change the grammar to first person? NO because its Allah speaking.
But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.
Did he change this to say 'send down to me'? No because its Allah speaking.
even those verses that start with 'Say oh Muhammed' he didnt even miss out the 'say oh Muhammed' and just say it
NONE of Quran is from Muhammed it is from Allah only. Allah confirms previous Books, Allah confirms previous prophets, Allah confirms THIS prophet is speaking the words of Allah.
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Mazhar,
Is Quran the Word of Allah or not?
Did Muhammed narrate it in his own words?
Did Muhammed add words or take words away?
Did Muhammed change anything to make it understandable to his audience?
Did Muhammed recite it exactly as he received it?Where did I say anything of the above sort.
Did Muhammed recite it exactly as he received it?
With your this quote read again what I have written above. I care for the connotation of words. You generalize those. The Qur'aan is full of his quotes, that he did not say to people anything of his own perception, data, information, knowledge he had in his memory before having recieved the communications. People wanted him to oblige from that, he refused saying he follows only Qur'aan including its recitation to people.
"Speak" means to utter words by articulating sounds, communicate something orally. Allah does not do this with us. All words written in direct to second person or by insertion of Qul are conveyed to us by the Messenger of Allah.
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Where did I say anything of the above sort.With your this quote read again what I have written above. I care for the connotation of words. You generalize those. The Qur'aan is full of his quotes, that he did not say to people anything of his own perception, data, information, knowledge he had in his memory before having recieved the communications. People wanted him to oblige from that, he refused saying he follows only Qur'aan including its recitation to people.
"Speak" means to utter words by articulating sounds, communicate something orally. Allah does not do this with us. All words written in direct to second person or by insertion of Qul are conveyed to us by the Messenger of Allah.
Then Allah IS speaking through him! it is not Muhammed that is affirming anything it is Allah affirming everything through Muhammed! And above again you say Quran is full of his (Muhammed's) quotes while at the same time you are saying this is Allah's words. brickwall
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Then Allah IS speaking through him! it is not Muhammed that is affirming anything it is Allah affirming everything through Muhammed! And above again you say Quran is full of his (Muhammed's) quotes while at the same time you are saying this is Allah's words. brickwall
For an English lady, Arabic could perhaps sometimes be confusing but I don't know simple English sentences are not being taken in straight forward meanings. Qur'aan is a written document. It has many quotes of what people said or were asked to say, quote meaning "repeat somebody's exact words to repeat or copy the exact words spoken or written by somebody". When I will say there is a quote of what Firaun said to Musa alahissalam, those are not the words/or statement of Allah, but a quote in the Qur'aan. The arguments Musa alahissalam stated, they are the quote not words of Allah.
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For an English lady, Arabic could perhaps sometimes be confusing but I don't know simple English sentences are not being taken in straight forward meanings. Qur'aan is a written document. It has many quotes of what people said or were asked to say, quote meaning "repeat somebody's exact words to repeat or copy the exact words spoken or written by somebody". When I will say there is a quote of what Firaun said to Musa alahissalam, those are not the words/or statement of Allah, but a quote in the Qur'aan. The arguments Musa alahissalam stated, they are the quote not words of Allah.
Ok so based on that you dont think Quran is the full 100% Words of Allah as recited to the prophet Muhammed. brickwall
I understand what quote and repeat means and yes Quran is now a written document, but it is a written record of a recitation from Allah to Muhammed to us, correct?
The quote of what Moses or anyone else said is quoted by Allah to Muhammed to us. It is not Moses telling Muhammed what he said, it is Allah telling Muhammed what Moses said. It is not Muhammed quoting what Moses said it is Allah quoting what Moses said and quoting it to Muhammed to us. It is the words of Allah, not Muhammed. Allah recited the entire book, quotes repeats and all, to Muhammed for him to recite it to us as is.
Even though there are things in there that Moses said or Jesus said, they did not say them to Muhammed. Allah quotes them to Muhammed. Moses and Jesus did not pop in mid recitation and say what they had said, Allah quoted what they said = Quran is 100% the word of Allah.
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Ok so based on that you dont think Quran is the full 100% Words of Allah as recited to the prophet Muhammed.
The only problem or striking against the wall is because an English Lady is failing to understand what is the difference between "Words of Allah" and the "words quoted by Allah". A man said, "Indeed that is a sort of your dissimulation. Indeed the dissimulation of you women is great". These are not the "Words of Allah", if you take that way you stand included in such women. This is a quote by Allah, and I have put in parentheses
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Ok so based on that you dont think Quran is the full 100% Words of Allah as recited to the prophet Muhammed.
The only problem or striking against the wall is because an English Lady is failing to understand what is the difference between "Words of Allah" and the "words quoted by Allah". A man said, "Indeed that is a sort of your dissimulation. Indeed the dissimulation of you women is great". These are not the "Words of Allah", if you take that way you stand included in such women. This is a quote by Allah, and I have put in parentheses
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Red part will make traditionalists rejoice.
Allah is not speaking to us through him. He/Muhammad is speaking to us conveying the Kalam/Hadith of Allah, communicated to him. When someone speaks to others communicating some statement it is called his "". When people call the stories compiled by Hadith writers as "" of the Messenger, I say, that is not his "". His "" is Grand Qur'aan. And this is what Allah says not me I just conveyed His words;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/069.%20Al%20Haqata/69.40a.gif
that undoubtedly that/Grand Qur'aan is certainly the Oral and written word/narration by the Exalted Messenger;Even a little change in describing something causes lot of difference in the perception that one may build in his mind. Without worrying much what traditionalists keep thinking and doing, we must not deviate from the straight words spoken by the Messenger of Allah. What he said, and is quoted in the Qur'aan, is that his life and death, i.e. every moment of his life, is for Allah-the Sustainer Lord of Worlds and that it is in line with what is stated in Qur'aan since he said I follow nothing but Qur'aan.
Ok so based on that you dont think Quran is the full 100% Words of Allah as recited to the prophet Muhammed.
The only problem or striking against the wall is because an English Lady is failing to understand what is the difference between "Words of Allah" and the "words quoted by Allah". A man said, "Indeed that is a sort of your dissimulation. Indeed the dissimulation of you women is great". These are not the "Words of Allah", if you take that way you stand included in such women. This is a quote by Allah, and I have put in parentheses
brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall
The exalted postion of the Messenger has all along history caused many to keep boiling. It is not a new phenomenon.
069.040
YUSUFALI That this is verily the word of an honoured messenger;
PICKTHAL That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger.
SHAKIR Most surely, it is the Word brought by an honored Messenger,069.041
YUSUFALI It is not the word of a poet little it is ye believe!
PICKTHAL It is not poet's speech - little is it that ye believe!
SHAKIR And it is not the word of a poet; little is it that you believe; -
The exalted postion of the Messenger has all along history caused many to keep boiling. It is not a new phenomenon.
All along history some people have exalted the prophet Muhammed above other prophets when Allah and Quran tells you we make no distinction among any of them, this has caused many to keep boiling in their persuit to idolize Muhammed above all prophets.
069.040
YUSUFALI That this is verily the word of an honoured messenger;
PICKTHAL That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger.
SHAKIR Most surely, it is the Word brought by an honored Messenger,069.041
YUSUFALI It is not the word of a poet little it is ye believe!
PICKTHAL It is not poet's speech - little is it that ye believe!
SHAKIR And it is not the word of a poet; little is it that you believe;So what is it here you are trying to show Mazhar, that the Quran is the words of Muhammed or that he was an honoured messenger?
069.043
YUSUFALI (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds.
PICKTHAL It is a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.
SHAKIR It is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.069.044
YUSUFALI And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name,
PICKTHAL And if he had invented false sayings concerning Us,
SHAKIR And if he had fabricated against Us some of the sayings,069.045
YUSUFALI We should certainly seize him by his right hand,
PICKTHAL We assuredly had taken him by the right hand
SHAKIR We would certainly have seized him by the right hand,069.046
YUSUFALI And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart
PICKTHAL And then severed his life-artery,
SHAKIR Then We would certainly have cut off his aorta. -
captain
From what I've gathered, you seem to think that Prophet Muhammed is the most honorable messenger because he was the only prophet sent to the whole humanity. And you back this up with the quranic verse saying that some messengers were more blessed than others, right? These would have been good arguments if there wouldn't have been a verse telling us clearly to not differentiate between them. A quick glance through the thread shows that you have yet to answer this verse directly. Since we know that the Quran doesn't itself... I would love it if you would explain how we can elevate Muhammed over. Other prophets without differentiating.
First I will repeat the argument posted in one of my previous post
Is a prophet who was sent to guide 1,000 people equal to one who sent to guide 30,000 people, or to one sent to guide all of humanity? Let's take an example. Is the teacher of first-grade students equal to a teacher of fourth-grade students? Are the teachers of higher classes equal to professors or university teachers? All belong to the same administration and work under the same general program, their aim being to educate students. Yet, in view of the teacher's knowledge, they are not equal. Each is different from the other according to his learning, ability, and achievement. From the point of view of the aim of prophethood, all the prophets of Allah are equal. However, because of differences in rank and knowledge, they are different.
and to determine thir rank read the following verses
And We have sent you not except as a mercy for all the worlds 21107
If it is been said for any other prophet please show me?
And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.
It is specially for Muhammad Peace is upon himand NOW ONE QUESTION TO AYISHA AND CAPTAIN FOR YOU BOTh, and you Can include Princess in it
What was the name Given to the Person by Allah, whose duty was to CONVEY the MEssage?
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This is the distinction and individuality of him that he is the affirmer of all the Messengers of Allah, who were in time and place sent to individual communities. A fact of past gets certified and sanctified and attains legality and force of truth and fact only when it is affirmed by an authority. MazharThe authority doing the affirmation is Allah, Muhammed is a vessel for that message. Jesus also confirmed what was sent before him and so did all other prophets, this is a condition of all prophets, not just Muhammed. Ayesha
Show me where the Messengers of Allah affirmed the messengership of Messengers respectively earlier than them. Except the Last Messenger . Message and Messenger are different even in English. Don't overlap them.
This is because that you wish not to listen to Qur'aan but to your own biases and prejudices against the elevated stature granted by Allah to some.
I am not saying this it is the message of Muhammad . Allah does not certify to us. It is the Messenger who certifies and affirms for us. It is the will of Allah that He will not communicate with us directly but through the chosen and elevated allegiant of Him. We have to listen to him and accept his word which is nothing but accepting the word of Allah. Allah says he, Muhammad has affirmed the Messengers, but you do not wish to accept the simple and plains words of Allah
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No, they falsely slander, he is neither possessed nor a poet, the fact of the matter is that he has come with a Statement of Proven/Absolute Fact
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and he/Muhammad has affirmed/sanctified The MessengersAs-Safaat