Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah

Mazhar

Mazhar salam.

Brother i don't think you are dumb enough to understand what i am trying to ask/point out, i think you are intentionally avoiding,

What i am trying to convey is ,

A judge acts as a judge ,only in jurisdiction of his court on matters which are assigned to him by his superior authorities, He does not go about acting like a judge at other places 24/7. Now can you find a similitude in God's messengers?

siki

And conversely you are not even trying to understand what I am saying. You perhaps even dont want to apply a little mind as to what a Judge means what to say of anything else. Judge does not go to other places to act like judge. Petitioners come to the judge. What I am saying is that a Judge is called and accepted as Judge all the time, twenty four hours, whether or not he is administering justice or performing/acting as judge.

Raaajah

what information raj? that rasool is a title? or that the 'names' of Allah are also titles? The Merciful, is that a name or a title? the Judge, is that a name or a title?

the 99 names you mentioned.

make your mind up, Greek or Aramaic Raj? it cant be both now can it?

Don't try to make things up, ash.

What you need to find is the Aramaic for 'praiser' or 'praised one' if you are sticking with that.

That always happen, when one does not read the whole post. For that we have to go to the particular verse John 1416. as I mentioned before

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever?

what i was saying is that "Periklytos" in Greek also means "the honored" one, therefore the word that was actually used had to be Periklytos in Greek translation, and not "Paracletos".

the real word would not be Greek as Jesus (and John) both spoke ARAMAIC and not GREEK,

Yes, although there are difference of opinion on this

Ibn Taymiyah and Ibn al-Qayyim were of the view that he did not speak any language other than Hebrew.
The Messiah was a Hebrew and did not speak anything but Hebrew.
the one says that the language of the Messiah was Aramaic or Greek is mistaken.

and those who say he spoke aramaic have this in their favor
Among the Aramaic words attributed to the Messiah in the Gospels are
? ?Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani???which means, ?My God, my God, why have you forsaken me???
(Matthew 2746)

Mazhar

This name in Arabic was told in Quran but Jesus didnt speak Arabic, he spoke Hebrew/Aramaic, so the word used in Hebrew/Aramaic would not be 'Ahmed' it would be the Hebrew/Aramaic for 'praiser' which has been translated as 'comforter' wrongly in English. Similarly, where Quran says in Arabic that God said such and such to Moses, or Moses asked God such and such, it would not have been said in Arabic, it would have been said in Hebrew as that was the language of Moses, but God is telling you/us about this in Arabic as Muhammed spoke Arabic, no good telling him the exact words in Hebrew really is it?

This reply is caused by simply forgetting a worldwide accepted principal that Personal Names are never translated in any other language.

Ayisha

This reply is caused by simply forgetting a worldwide accepted principal that Personal Names are never translated in any other language.

Jesus=Isa, Abraham = Ibrahim, The praiser = Ahmed, are you quite sure about that Mazhar?

Mazhar

Jesus=Isa, Abraham = Ibrahim, The praiser = Ahmed, are you quite sure about that Mazhar?

Do you not agree that personal/location Names are not translated in other languages?

Raaajah

Quote
What you need to find is the Aramaic for 'praiser' or 'praised one' if you are sticking with that.

Quoted
Of special interest always is what the name for Muhammad was in his mother tongue, Palestinian Aramaic. For this we have to look to the Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures. According to the present day Aramaic scriptures, the word for Muhammad would read "Paraqleyta" or "Paraklytos" in Greek and "Menahem" in Hebrew! In the ancient Aramaic scriptures, before these changes, it read "Ahmad," then Munahammana" which is the Aramaic/Syriac rendering for the name "Muhammad." These are names, not simply words, and they mean "Comforter" or "Muhammad" in Arabic.

Ayisha

what information raj? that rasool is a title? or that the 'names' of Allah are also titles? The Merciful, is that a name or a title? the Judge, is that a name or a title?

the 99 names you mentioned.

Is The Merciful, Allah's name? Is The Compassionate Allah's name? or are they titles?

make your mind up, Greek or Aramaic Raj? it cant be both now can it?

Don't try to make things up, ash.

Not making anything up raj, its there in black and white you claimed Paraklytos was in Aramaic the mother tongue of Jesus then you said you knew it was Greek. So which is it today?

What you need to find is the Aramaic for 'praiser' or 'praised one' if you are sticking with that.

That always happen, when one does not read the whole post. For that we have to go to the particular verse John 1416. as I mentioned before

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever?

what i was saying is that "Periklytos" in Greek also means "the honored" one, therefore the word that was actually used had to be Periklytos in Greek translation, and not "Paracletos".
the particular spelling of the word is irrelevant raj, why does it have to be paraklytos (greek) when Jesus and John spoke Aramaic?

the real word would not be Greek as Jesus (and John) both spoke ARAMAIC and not GREEK,

Yes, although there are difference of opinion on this

Ibn Taymiyah and Ibn al-Qayyim were of the view that he did not speak any language other than Hebrew.
The Messiah was a Hebrew and did not speak anything but Hebrew.
the one says that the language of the Messiah was Aramaic or Greek is mistaken.
ok so why would he still say a Greek word if he spoke Hebrew?

and those who say he spoke aramaic have this in their favor
Among the Aramaic words attributed to the Messiah in the Gospels are
? ?Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani???which means, ?My God, my God, why have you forsaken me???
(Matthew 2746)

So do we conclude Jesus spoke Hebrew and Aramaic and that Parklytos, whichever spelling, is Greek? And that Paraklytos means 'comforter' in English? and that the word you to cheerfully delighted in showing us earlier as the name 'Muhammed' in Hebrew cannot be the Parklytos Greek word?

FYI
There were/are different forms of Hebrew, Jesus spoke primarily Aramaic and some Hebrew and it is possible that considering where he lived he may have spoken a little Greek as the Roman Empire were Greek speaking. The Greek NT 'original' documents are believed to be 4th century and Paul's stuff was in Greek for the Greek audience. It is still debated that the original texts were in Aramaic and translated to Greek. The oldest copy of the Bible known so far is the Codex Sinaiticus which dates back to 4th century and is in Greek, but that doesnt mean the original text was in Greek.

Have a look for yourself http//codexsinaiticus.org/en/

Ayisha

Quoted
Of special interest always is what the name for Muhammad was in his mother tongue, Palestinian Aramaic. For this we have to look to the Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures. According to the present day Aramaic scriptures, the word for Muhammad would read "Paraqleyta" or "Paraklytos" in Greek and "Menahem" in Hebrew! In the ancient Aramaic scriptures, before these changes, it read "Ahmad," then Munahammana" which is the Aramaic/Syriac rendering for the name "Muhammad." These are names, not simply words, and they mean "Comforter" or "Muhammad" in Arabic.

I did say spare me the online slanging site raj

Ayisha

Do you not agree that personal/location Names are not translated in other languages?

Is Isa Aramaic or Hebrew?

Raaajah

I did say spare me the online slanging site raj

I don't know what rubbish you are talking about?

"we have not the least doubt the word "Perikalutas" rendered in english as "comforter was not the one uttered by Jesus christ, but it was "parakeletos", meaning "illustrios" or "renowned" in every respect to the word "Ahmad" Sir William Muir says that the word Ahmad must have been errenously employed as translation of Perikalutas in some arabic version of New testament, and it was forged by some ignorant Monk in Muhmmad's time (Muir, life of Muhamaet)
www.aail.org

the particular spelling of the word is irrelevant raj, why does it have to be paraklytos (greek) when Jesus and John spoke Aramaic?

are you kidding? or you really not getting it? are you reading what is being posted?

ok so why would he still say a Greek word if he spoke Hebrew?

Now Iam sure you are not reading even a single word, and just trying to reply as fast as you can.
and Yes,
Where did you got 99 names of Allah? you did not respond?

The name Prasied one used by allah for the Messenger, was well known to the people of scriptures as the Ayat of Allah has shown us, which you donot consider?
Just answer me that do you believe in the following ayat

follow the messenger, the gentile prophet , whom they find written in their Torah and Gospel.......

if you do? How is Muhammad pointed out in the Torah and Gospel?
Why Allah calls him by the name of Muhammad in Quran?
What is the meaning of word Muhammad?

Raaajah

I did say spare me the online slanging site raj

Any site can have helpful material, this is just a way to have an excuse, for not reading material that doesnot fits your thoughts, decide on merit.

Ayisha

I don't know what rubbish you are talking about?

"we have not the least doubt the word "Perikalutas" rendered in english as "comforter was not the one uttered by Jesus christ, but it was "parakeletos", meaning "illustrios" or "renowned" in every respect to the word "Ahmad" Sir William Muir says that the word Ahmad must have been errenously employed as translation of Perikalutas in some arabic version of New testament, and it was forged by some ignorant Monk in Muhmmad's time (Muir, life of Muhamaet)
www.aail.org

That wasn't the same you posted before Raj. Have you actually read this?

are you kidding? or you really not getting it? are you reading what is being posted?
are you?

Now Iam sure you are not reading even a single word, and just trying to reply as fast as you can.
dont judge others by your own actions.

and Yes,
Where did you got 99 names of Allah? you did not respond?
I'm surprised you have never heard of them

The name Prasied one used by allah for the Messenger, was well known to the people of scriptures as the Ayat of Allah has shown us, which you donot consider?
we have had 'Praiser' 'Praised one' 'comforter' 'honoured' the name of the man is Muhammed, what it 'means' in other languages is not relevant, and Jesus used 'Ahmed' according to Quran. I think there is a total mix up of languages here now.

Just answer me that do you believe in the following ayat

follow the messenger, the gentile prophet , whom they find written in their Torah and Gospel.......
its from Quran, of course I believe in it

if you do? How is Muhammad pointed out in the Torah and Gospel?
Do you know? considering you are of those that claim these books are no longer 'valid' and have been 'corrupted'?

Why Allah calls him by the name of Muhammad in Quran?
because that was his name, no point in saying 'oh fred' to a man named Muhammed is there?

What is the meaning of word Muhammad?
in what language?

Raaajah

I'm surprised you have never heard of them

and where did you heared it? what verse of Quran? why find it hard to answer?

That wasn't the same you posted before Raj. Have you actually read this?

Read what? Muir?

and Jesus used 'Ahmed' according to Quran.

When Quran says it, can't be wrong? and that is why, it was tried to make you understand that the actaul word used by Jesus was equivalent to Muhammad and not some other as Corrupted or mis translated in Greek, Is this hard to understand?

and just like before you have not answered any questions asked by me?

if you do? How is Muhammad pointed out in the Torah and Gospel?
Why Allah calls him by the name of Muhammad in Quran?
What is the meaning of word Muhammad?

in what language?

for last question, offcourse Muhammad is name of an Arab, called by Allah in his Arabic book for his beloved.

Ayisha

and where did you heared it? what verse of Quran? why find it hard to answer?
Not hard to answer Raj but does it really have an bearing on this discussion? Why are you finding it so hard to answer if the Merciful is a name or a title? just about every 'islamic' website and book discusses the 99 names of Allah and you are claiming never to have heard of this?

Read what? Muir?
drink more water raj

first you posted this

"Of special interest always is what the name for Muhammad was in his mother tongue, Palestinian Aramaic. For this we have to look to the Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures. According to the present day Aramaic scriptures, the word for Muhammad would read "Paraqleyta" or "Paraklytos" in Greek and "Menahem" in Hebrew! In the ancient Aramaic scriptures, before these changes, it read "Ahmad," then Munahammana" which is the Aramaic/Syriac rendering for the name "Muhammad." These are names, not simply words, and they mean "Comforter" or "Muhammad" in Arabic."

from the great 'answering Christianity site, then you posted this

""we have not the least doubt the word "Perikalutas" rendered in english as "comforter was not the one uttered by Jesus christ, but it was "parakeletos", meaning "illustrios" or "renowned" in every respect to the word "Ahmad" Sir William Muir says that the word Ahmad must have been errenously employed as translation of Perikalutas in some arabic version of New testament, and it was forged by some ignorant Monk in Muhmmad's time (Muir, life of Muhamaet)
www.aail.org"

I have highlighted Muir for you.

When Quran says it, can't be wrong?
are you saying it can? I do wish you would be careful with your question marks as it makes it difficult to understand if you are making a statement or asking a question

and that is why, it was tried to make you understand that the actaul word used by Jesus was equivalent to Muhammad and not some other as Corrupted or mis translated in Greek, Is this hard to understand?
No but it seems you didnt understand that is what I had said in the first place ) You are the one claiming it was in Jesus mother tongue of Aramaic then agreed it was a Greek word not Aramaic. You are the one it seems would rather invent an arguement when there was none. )

and just like before you have not answered any questions asked by me?
Raj there are tons of unanswered questions that you have ignored, and I have answered all yours more than once as you dont understand the answers when I give them, what makes you think you have a right to demand anything from me that you cant respectfully do yourself?

for last question, offcourse Muhammad is name of an Arab, called by Allah in his Arabic book for his beloved.

But his name was Muhammed BEFORE his prophethood and BEFORE he got the message of Quran, or do you deny that too?

Mazhar

Is Isa Aramaic or Hebrew?

It is a non Arab name, therefore you will find in Qur'aan that it is always written in the same way, no declension.

san

Is The Merciful, Allah's name? Is The Compassionate Allah's name? or are they titles?

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Names, or more accurately Asma, are means by which you distinguish something (or a concept) from another, or at least that's how i understand it.

What do you mean by "title"? By the way, it's not such number as "99" that matters (as it is claimed in a "hadith", i have yet to verify it).

The best names of Allah are, imho, very important to understand, because these are to be remembered in our daily tasbih, we can understand Allah better through our understanding of these names. I'm not sure "title" would fit here...

Mazhar

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Names, or more accurately Asma, are means by which you distinguish something (or a concept) from another, or at least that's how i understand it.

What do you mean by "title"? By the way, it's not such number as "99" that matters (as it is claimed in a "hadith", i have yet to verify it).

The best names of Allah are, imho, very important to understand, because these are to be remembered in our daily tasbih, we can understand Allah better through our understanding of these names. I'm not sure "title" would fit here...

I hope this will give asssurance that you are right.

ti?tle
noun (plural ti?tles)

name a name that identifies a book, movie, play, painting, musical composition, or other literary or artistic work
descriptive heading a descriptive heading for something such as a book chapter, a magazine article, or a speech
publishing Same as title page
published or recorded work a work published or recorded by a company
this spring's new titles
designation added to name a word added to and usually preceding somebody's name to indicate his or her rank, social status, or profession, or as a courtesy, e.g. "Mr.", "Ms.", "Dr.", or "Lord."
name describing position a name that describes somebody's job or position in a company or organization
a job title
championship the status of champion in a sport or competition
a title fight
law right to possess property a legal right to possess and dispose of property
law evidence of property rights the evidence of legal right to property
law document a document giving the legal right to property
law right or proof of right a legitimate right, or something providing proof or justification for a claim
law claim based on right a claim based on a legitimate right
law division a division of a law, statute, or law book
law law heading a heading for a lawsuit or legal action, or one that names a document or statute
christianity requirement of ordination a source of income or office in the church required of a candidate by the Church of England before ordination
christianity Roman Catholic church in Rome a Roman Catholic church in or near Rome that has a bishop or cardinal as its nominal head

ti?tles, plural noun
movies tv credits or subtitles on screen the written presentation on the screen of credits, narration, or subtitles in a movie or television program

transitive verb (past and past participle ti?tled, present participle ti?tling, 3rd person present singular ti?tles)

name somebody or something to give a name or title to somebody or something
call somebody by title to call somebody by a particular title

Ayisha

It is a non Arab name, therefore you will find in Qur'aan that it is always written in the same way, no declension.

but was it 'Isa' in Aramaic? You said names are not translated into another language but they actually are, just in the same way GOD is translated to Allah or Elli or Deus or Aknatu, its still the same ONE.

Ayisha

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Names, or more accurately Asma, are means by which you distinguish something (or a concept) from another, or at least that's how i understand it.
Yes that is a name but what i'm getting at is raj is convinced Muhammed was the name given to Muhammed by God in Quran, where I am saying he had that name before Quran and his prophethood. When raj asked what was the name I said 'rasool' and it was corrected that this is a 'title' or 'job description' which I agree with, so then I asked is The Merciful etc the 'name' of Allah or a title. Is Allah even a name? None of this is of course relevant to any of this discussion, its that raj has gone off on a tangent to 'prove me wrong' in whatever I say so im just following him ;D

What do you mean by "title"? By the way, it's not such number as "99" that matters (as it is claimed in a "hadith", i have yet to verify it).
Title like 'Judge' is a title of a Judge, its what he does. or Mr. is a title or Dr. is a title. The Judge is a 'title' of Allah.

The best names of Allah are, imho, very important to understand, because these are to be remembered in our daily tasbih, we can understand Allah better through our understanding of these names. I'm not sure "title" would fit here...
I agree they are very important to understand and title may not fit for all but 'name' doesnt fit either for me.

All irrelevant though, He has given these 'titles/names' in Quran for Himself, i'm not disputing any of them although some in their quest to 'prove me wrong whatever' seem to think I do ;D

all good fun peace

Raaajah

Ayisha

But his name was Muhammed BEFORE his prophethood and BEFORE he got the message of Quran, or do you deny that too?

I think it is nearly impossible to have a productive discussion with you.

Please read this Verse not just with open eyes but open heart and mind,

follow the messenger, the gentile prophet , whom they find written in their Torah and Gospel.......

Is the verse about Past, present or future,? (at the time of revelation). It was already been decided in the greater plan of Allah, that a Person will come in Future, who will be Prophet of Allah, and to your and many's bad luck his name was "Muhammad" as called by Allah in Quran.

And your un answered questions?

What does Muhammad means?
Why Allah calls him by the name of Muhammad in Quran?
How is that person predicted or written in Gospels as mentioned in Quran? (If you belkieve in this (ayt).
Where did you find 99 names of Allah in Quran?

are you saying it can? I do wish you would be careful with your question marks as it makes it difficult to understand if you are making a statement or asking a question

Yes Teacher