Was Moses in Egypt?????
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Peace,
261
And remember ye said "O Moses! we cannot endure one kind of food (always); so beseech thy Lord for us to produce for us of what the earth groweth-its pot-herbs and cucumbers its garlic lentils and onions." He said "will ye exchange the better for the worse? Go ye down to any town and ye shall find what ye want!" They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of Allah. This because they went on rejecting the signs of Allah and slaying His messengers without just cause. This because They rebelled and went on transgressing.
Waith qultum ya moosa lan nasbira AAala taAAamin wahidin faodAAu lana rabbaka yukhrij lana mimma tunbitu alardu min baqliha waqiththaiha wafoomiha waAAadasiha wabasaliha qala atastabdiloona allathee huwa adna biallathee huwa khayrun ihbitoo misran fainna lakum ma saaltum waduribat AAalayhimu alththillatu waalmaskanatu wabaoo bighadabin mina Allahi thalika biannahum kanoo yakfuroona biayati Allahi wayaqtuloona alnnabiyyeena bighayri alhaqqi thalika bima AAasaw wakanoo yaAAtadoona
PRL = Miim-Sad-Ra (e.g. misra, maseeru) = he made it (namely a town) a limit/boundary between two things, partition, barrier, limit, great town, Egypt.
misr n. 261, 1087, 1221, 1299, 4351
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Peace,
PRL = Miim-Sad-Ra (e.g. misra, maseeru) = he made it (namely a town) a limit/boundary between two things, partition, barrier, limit, great town, Egypt.
misr n. 261, 1087, 1221, 1299, 4351
Qaryatin -- community/tribe
Al-Madnati -- the city/town http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=21125
Those 3,300+ year old tablets confirm Egypt was known by that name in the ancient world according to other empires (Hittites, Canaanites, Assyrians, etc) and themselves as they still are called by that name to this day.
As per the verse in question, for best meaning context (259-261) and cross-reference not dictionaries written between 13th and 19th century CE which also have a definition of Egypt. In addition, look at the complaint and reply; to paraphrase -- if you want cucumbers go back to Egypt!
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Peace,
Qaryatin -- community/tribe
Al-Madnati -- the city/town http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=21125
Those 3,300+ year old tablets confirm Egypt was known by that name in the ancient world according to other empires (Hittites, Canaanites, Assyrians, etc) and themselves as they still are called by that name to this day.
As per the verse in question, for best meaning context (259-261) and cross-reference not dictionaries written between 13th and 19th century CE which also have a definition of Egypt. In addition, look at the complaint and reply; to paraphrase -- if you want cucumbers go back to Egypt!
Peace,
I do not reject this fact
"Those 3,300+ year old tablets confirm Egypt was known by that name in the ancient world according to other empires (Hittites, Canaanites, Assyrians, etc) and themselves as they still are called by that name to this day."
Tablets are mobile stuff (normal there were letters), they can be found in Egypt but they can be from anywhere else.
Why are they written in Akkadian and not in anciant egyptian? Because there were send from Assyria, Palestine, Babylonia etc...
Taking that into account how do you know "sar Misrii" is pointing to the "King of Egypt" and not to any other "little king" in the region! Is it because there were found in Egypt?But the question remaining is
Is MISR exclusively used for Egypt and no other place?
Regards
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I have a Question....
Doest The Quran say that Pharoah's Main Archetect (Mentions him by name) Built a temple for him?
From Wikipedia
Haman (Islam)
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In the Qur'an, Haman was the chief minister of Pharaoh at the time of Moses. The name Haman appears six times in the Qur'an.According to the Qur'an, both Haman and Pharaoh had armies responsible for killing sons of the Israelites. God sent Moses to invite Pharaoh and Haman to worship him, and to seek protection of the Israelites Haman and Pharaoh were tormenting. Referring to Moses as a sorcerer and a liar, Pharaoh and Haman rejected Moses' call to worship the true God and refused to set the children of Israel free. Like Pharaoh, Haman eventually drowned.
Interaction with Moses
God desires to overthrow Haman and Pharaoh by the oppressed Israelites, and to make them heirs to their power and wealth. There is an irony in the fact that the infant Moses is picked up from the river by the household of the Pharaoh. Pharaoh wanted to kill the infant but changed his mind at the plea of his wife. Haman is singled out as a member of this household.As a young man, Moses kills an Egyptian, and subsequently flees to Midian. He later comes back as a messenger of God to Pharaoh and Haman saying "Send with us the children of Israel, and do not torment them" (Qur'an 2047). Pharaoh inquires Moses about the identity and characteristics of his God after which commands Haman to kindle a fire to bake clay for bricks (Qur'an 283 in order to build a lofty tower he can climb to be able to see the God of Moses (Qur'an 2838; 4036-7).
Moses is not only sent to Pharaoh and Haman, but also to Korah (Arabic Qarun) (Qur'an 4024). According to Anthony Hearle Johns, "there is a vivid scene presenting the response of the three of them to Moses' message, 'A sorcerer! A liar! ... Kill the sons of those who believe along with him, and let their women live" (q 4024-5), and Pharaoh turns to Korah and Hmn, saying, 'Let me kill Moses, let him cry out to his lord' (q 402. In q 2939 Haman, Korah and Pharaoh are named along with the peoples of Midian (q 2936), d (q.v.) and Thamd (q.v.; q 293, as among those who rejected the prophets sent to them and were punished Korah was swallowed up by the earth (q 2881) and Hmn drowned with Pharaoh (q 2940)."
Identity
Scholars disagree over the identity of Haman and the meaning of his name According to G. Vajda, for an unexplained reason, the Qur'an confuses Haman with the minister of King Ahasuerus of the Persian empire whose story is mentioned in the Biblical book of Esther According to Anthony Hearle Johns however"There is, however, no reason, other than the paradigmatic one of hostility to the Israelites, to make any direct connection between him and the eponymous minister of Ahasuerus referred to in Esther (31-6) who persuaded his ruler to issue an edict to exterminate the Jews of the Persian Empire because Mordechai refused to pay him homage. One suggestion is that Hmn is an Arabized echo of the Egyptian H-Amen, the title of a high priest second only in rank to Pharaoh (Asad, Message, 590, n. 6). The name, however, may have become a time-honored designation for any court official hostile to the Jews and belief in the one God. His role is marginally elaborated in the "stories of the prophets" literature (qisas al-anbiya, see Kis, Tales, 213, 226-7, 229)."
"Fir'uan (Pharaoh) said "O chiefs! I know not that you have an Allah other then me. So kindle for me (a fire), 'O' Haman, to bake (bricks out of) clay, and set up for me a Srhan (a lofty tower or a palace) in order that I may (climb) look at (or look for) the Allah of Moses; and verily, I think that he (Moses) is one of the liars."
(Sura 28. Al-Qasas Section 4 Ayat 3
And Fir'uan said; "O Ham'an! Build me a tower that I may arrive at ways > the ways of the heavens and I may look upon the Allah of Moses But verily I think him to be a liar."
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/haman43.jpg
Here Is a Good Website to check out, Read, Refute, or Varify...There are also some videos on youtube about the Issue.
http//www.classicalislam.com/pages/articles/pyramids.htmI was watching a video that was explaining how one of the Egytian kings Pharoah's Left egypt to concure new land, and as a way to cover it up he created the story of Moses Since Many people in the future would ask questions about such a giant group of egyptians leaving egypt...So they created the sotry of moses as a cover story and then created judaism to rule from new countries...
However I dont subscribe to this belief...I feel there is Little to No Basis and it is from the Zeitigist Movies, which seems to have many errors and fallacies... But Whether it was a REAL King from Egypt or it was Moses (an EX-Prince of Egypt) what does it matter?
Both Were Suposidily, Egyptian Royals who went on an Exodus and Suposidily Left the Oppressive Egypt with a bunch of People...and wanted to create a new place of Dwelling...So whether it was REALLY Moses or the Roayal Egyptian...or BOTH...what difference does it make?
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Peace all,
No it makes no difference at all.
I personnaly think that in the Reading God is intentionnaly vague on geographical location and these stories are but (real) examples for humanity, these stories can be translocated anywhere on earth where any king/governor could oppress people for their origin/religion e.g. Hitler and nazism in Germany, Appartheid in South Africa, Arabs in Palestine etc...
Peace
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As-salam,
Yes Brother, I agree.
I think They are Multiple meanings in the Quran.
Yes, I think there really was a Specific Pharoah mentioned in the Quran and a Specific Muhammad and Musa...
But I also believe that at the SAME time, Pharoah can also be Modern Pharoah.Just Like there really was a place called Babylon (original)...But also today there are many Cities/Systems that resemble and Embody the Attributes of Babylon thus making them "Modern Day Babylon".
Personnaly, I Do believe in Emulation of the Prophets...But not to the extant of the Sunnis and Shia..
For example, I believe there really was a Moses (pbuh), But I also feel that at certain times in my life and in your life.....we are Moses.
(not LITERALLY) but Symbolicly. We share some of the similar trails that Moses went through and share the similair exodus.
Emulation meaning, Every Prophet has a different story of how they came to Islam and their trials... We as Believers Sometimes share or try to share their traits and charactoristics. Sometimes we even share their Similar struggles.Sometimes we are Muhammad. (agin not LITERALLY THEE Muhammad) but symbolically represent Muhammad by enduring some of the trials he went through and his quest for freedom, and submission to Allah.
(That type of emulation)Every Generation has its Pharoah and its Babylon. Its the Prinicap that matters. D
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Peace,
I do not reject this fact
"Those 3,300+ year old tablets confirm Egypt was known by that name in the ancient world according to other empires (Hittites, Canaanites, Assyrians, etc) and themselves as they still are called by that name to this day."
Tablets are mobile stuff (normal there were letters), they can be found in Egypt but they can be from anywhere else.
Why are they written in Akkadian and not in anciant egyptian? Because there were send from Assyria, Palestine, Babylonia etc...
Taking that into account how do you know "sar Misrii" is pointing to the "King of Egypt" and not to any other "little king" in the region! Is it because there were found in Egypt?But the question remaining is
Is MISR exclusively used for Egypt and no other place?
Regards
Yes, that's to whom the letters were being addressed (interesting character)...
Rebel Pharaoh Sneak Peek
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0KlSDNmPgEAkenaten The religious Revolution
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbBbrhQ4WQA&feature=relatedNice song...
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSWyAK5NjW0 -
Its amazing that there have been many discoveries in Eygpt, but no where has there been anything writen on the so called isrealie slaves that did all the work there. I think the only mention of Isreal by name was a tablet which mentioned isreal conquered, which I saw on a documentary. Can it be that Egyptians did not want to document a dark past?
peace -
Thank you herbman for great info.. All those facts proves Moses was not in Egypt IMO. Actually God is giving us very clear clues for finding the proper info about story of Moses in Quran.
Also, these facts clearing that why Egypt Kingdom continued to date of Romans..instead of ended via river flood much before Christ.
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Peace herbman,
Quran 8910
And with Pharaoh, Lord of Stakes?Quran 3812
Before them (were many who) rejected messengers, the People of Noah, and `Ad, and Pharaoh, the Lord of Stakes.God knows what a pyramid is and what a stake is!!!!
please see persepolis stakes/pillars
http//www.hansrossel.com/fotos/fotografie/iran/ir_d5.htm
I don't think God referred Pharaoh as the Lord of Stakes to the pyramids. It was to the Obelisk which can only be found in Egypt and they resemble giant stakes.
http//www.egipto.com/obeliscos/biblio.html
The hieroglyphs inscribed on the obelisk were the title and the name of the ruling pharaoh.
http//www.jimloy.com/hiero/usrtsn0.htm
Hope this help.
Peace peace
tauhid101. -
I don't think God referred Pharaoh as the Lord of Stakes to the pyramids. It was to the Obelisk which can only be found in Egypt and they resemble giant stakes.
Only one obelisk could be assigned to a pharaoh, thus we can't assign all obelisks into one pharaoh's name. Calling a pharaoh as a "owner of obeliskS" is not logic.
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Peace exodus,
Only one obelisk could be assigned to a pharaoh, thus we can't assign all obelisks into one pharaoh's name. Calling a pharaoh as a "owner of obeliskS" is not logic.
Do you mean the verse 8910? Definitely we could not assign all the obelisks into one pharaoh's name. The word "pharaoh" was a title, like a "king" or a "emperor" it's not the ruler's name and from different dynasty
Pharaoh Tuthmosis I, Karnak Temple, Luxor
Pharaoh Ramses II, Luxor Temple
Pharaoh Hatshepsut, Karnak Temple, Luxor
Pharaoh Senusret I, Al-Masalla area of Al-Matariyyah district in Heliopolis, Cairo
Pharaoh Ramses III, Luxor Museum
Pharaoh Ramses II, Gezira Island, Cairo, 20.4 m
Pharaoh Ramses II, Cairo International Airport, 16.97 m
Pharaoh Seti II, Karnak Temple, Luxor, 7 m
Pharaoh Senusret I, Faiyum (ancient site of Crocodilopolis), 12.9 m.http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obelisk#Egyptian
Now if only we can ascertain which pharaoh was with Haman and Qarun? Doesn't the obelisk looks like a giant stake to you, exodus? The truth is there in Egypt for thousand of years. It is not about whether it's logical or not but only the Truth from God.
If and when you accept this to be the Truth from God, then you might want to read the "discoveries" by Ron Wyatt
http//www.wyattmuseum.com/red-sea-crossing.htm
Peace peace
tauhid101. -
Peace exodus,
Do you mean the verse 8910? Definitely we could not assign all the obelisks into one pharaoh's name. The word "pharaoh" was a title, like a "king" or a "emperor" it's not the ruler's name and from different dynasty
It's highly possible that "Fraun" is a proper name of a king instead of a title. We have no any strong evidence for assuming "Fraun" as a title just by Qur'an.
Peace.
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It's highly possible that "Fraun" is a proper name of a king instead of a title. We have no any strong evidence for assuming "Fraun" as a title just by Qur'an.
Peace.
Did Allah have to put in every slight detail of what was well known at the time? Pharaoh of Egypt has been a title for the king of Egypt since before Moses. There is plenty enough strong evidence for that! There is also evidence in the previous books Allah tells you He also authored before Quran. Quran is not a stand alone revelation and that is proven by the many references to what is in those other revelations before it.
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Did Allah have to put in every slight detail of what was well known at the time? Pharaoh of Egypt has been a title for the king of Egypt since before Moses. There is plenty enough strong evidence for that! There is also evidence in the previous books Allah tells you He also authored before Quran. Quran is not a stand alone revelation and that is proven by the many references to what is in those other revelations before it.
We have two of choices
- Describe traditions using God's words
- Describe God's words using traditions
I generally choose first one.
The Fire; they are exposed to it morning and evening; and on the day when the Hour upriseth (it is said) Cause Pharaoh's folk to enter the most awful doom.
If "Pharaoh" is just a title, can you confirm that all generations of Pharaoh deserved most awful doom?
Peace.
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We have two of choices
- Describe traditions using God's words
- Describe God's words using traditions
I generally choose first one.
The Fire; they are exposed to it morning and evening; and on the day when the Hour upriseth (it is said) Cause Pharaoh's folk to enter the most awful doom.
If "Pharaoh" is just a title, can you confirm that all generations of Pharaoh deserved most awful doom?
Peace.
no of course not, can you confirm that all desert arabs are worst in hypocrisy?
It is speaking about a time in history that was past when Quran was revealed, it is talking about those that worshipped pharaoh as a God, all pharoahs, not just one. It is a title and that verse is talking about the one that was in the time of Moses which was a different pharaoh to the one in Chapter 12 (called the king of Egypt), which can be found in Genesis chapter 40. -
Did Allah have to put in every slight detail of what was well known at the time? Pharaoh of Egypt has been a title for the king of Egypt since before Moses. There is plenty enough strong evidence for that! There is also evidence in the previous books Allah tells you He also authored before Quran. Quran is not a stand alone revelation and that is proven by the many references to what is in those other revelations before it.
Salam,
I would be very interested by your thought and would like you to explain this fact
{We thus took vengeance upon them by drowning them in a fast current (of water), for their denial of Our signs, and their disregard of them * And We let the people who were persecuted inherit the east of the land and the west of it which We have blessed. And the good word of your Lord was completed towards the Children of Israel for their patience; and We destroyed what Pharaoh and his people were doing, and what they contrived.}....
The above verses are telling us, in words that are as clear a the sun, that the Israelites INHERITED the land AFTER pharaoh's reign came to a watery end.
Answer me this Is there any proof od the Israelites ever having ruled Egypt???
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Salam,
I would be very interested by your thought and would like you to explain this fact
{We thus took vengeance upon them by drowning them in a fast current (of water), for their denial of Our signs, and their disregard of them * And We let the people who were persecuted inherit the east of the land and the west of it which We have blessed. And the good word of your Lord was completed towards the Children of Israel for their patience; and We destroyed what Pharaoh and his people were doing, and what they contrived.}....The above verses are telling us, in words that are as clear a the sun, that the Israelites INHERITED the land AFTER pharaoh's reign came to a watery end.
Answer me this Is there any proof od the Israelites ever having ruled Egypt???
The land that was blessed was Israel. This watery end was not the end of Pharaoh, only of that one, there were more after and Cleopatra was the last known Pharaoh. It was after Moses freeing his people that the revelation came to him of the 10 commandments on Mount Sinai and Israel and Egypt have fought over this land which is to the west of Israel and now part of Egypt. Moses was in Sinai for 40 years, this was Israeli land at that time.
Prior to this Joseph (father of Jacob (Jacob was later named Israel)) had been a high official in Egypt and is thought to be the Imhotep that saved Egypt from the famine years. There has always been history between Egypt and Israel and you have to bear in mind that borders now are not the same as borders then. Egypt was much larger than it is now.
Sorry if that doenst answer your question, got to go out so it was quick. peace
