Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah
-
The red marked perception is because people want to assign meanings, to the words of Allah, of their own choice and are not ready to make difference between Mushrik-statue-hand sculpted idol worshippers and Kaafir.
did you forget to give me the words used in the Arabic for hand sculptured stone statues or are you assigning a meaning of your own to this?Never equate chiristians with a Mushrik notwithstanding what they said or thought about Easa alahissalam. Allah says this;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.017.gif
Indeed those people refused to believe/denounced allegiance who said this, "Indeed Allah is he Al-Maseiha, son of Maryam"AlMaida-17
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.073.gif
Indeed those people in fact refused to accept/believe who said that Allah is third entity in the trinity,
Almaida-73
I dare not substitute the word used by Allah "Kafara" with "sharaka"
Some christians not only believe Jesus is the son of God but God in the flesh, he is God and they worship him as God, Mary is called the 'Mother of God'. Jesus is 'the only way to get to God', they pray TO God Through Jesus, He is 3 in one, like the egg is shell, white and yolk but one egg.
3.79 confirms Jesus never asked this, nor did Muhammed, but this is what the people did and still do just the same as some Muslims 'elevate' Muhammed to a similar status but insist they dont because they 'dont think he is God/son of God' but what they DO is no different, although of course they think it is. In effect they say one thing but DO another. -
Quotes prior to this have been discussed in detail.
I FOLLOW QURAN, I FOLLOW GOD. I HAVE READ QURAN MORE THAN ONCE SO I KNOW IN QURAN ALLAH SHOWED HE NAMED JESUS AND JOHN. I also know from Torah that Allah changed Abrahams name from Abram to Abraham and yes there were others.
You should read it once more and keep on reading it every day.
Therefore You agree that Allah choses the names of His Messengers. But when it comes to Muhammad peace is upon him, you suddenly panic. You have agreed that coming of Muhammad was the part of future plan of Allah, you cannot back up from that now. I have shown evidences that Allah choses the names of his Messengers, SHOW ME A CONTRARY VERSE TO THIS and I will just accept that I am wrong on this part. Simple! isn't it?Do you understand that Raj?
The POINT I have been trying to make that YOU keep IGNORING is that there is NO VERSE where Allah NAMED Muhammed. Allah did NOT tell Muhammeds parents they will have a son who will be a messenger of Allah and they are to name him Muhammed, it did NOT happen so who is the LIAR Raj?
No! I donot understand, your problem towards Muhammad. Refer above for the rest. Just one verse in your support and contrary to what I said, Just one verse.
I BELIEVE MUHAMMED WAS A MESSENGER OF ALLAH, does that make you happy now raj? I have said this many times and any idiot except you will know I cannot follow Quran without believing this. he was named Muhammed by his parents, NOT by Allah telling his parents what to name him!
More than happy. You just need an Ayat to confirm what you are saying. Simple!
He calls him BY HIS NAME, are you really so stupid Raj or so blinded by idolatry? IT WAS HIS NAME.
the names of Prophets are chosen by Allah! I have provided evidences from Quran. Your time now.
The verses you provided donot support your argument an iota.
So Ayisha without being sentimental Just show me one verse from Quran that Allah did not Authenticate the name Muhammad or even show me Allah doesnot choses the names of his prophets.
This will help you not calling others "fanatics", Stupids, and idiots. -
You should read it once more and keep on reading it every day.
I doTherefore You agree that Allah choses the names of His Messengers.
SOME yes.But when it comes to Muhammad peace is upon him, you suddenly panic.
Panic? Why would I panic, you made a claim you cant back up, you are panicking.You have agreed that coming of Muhammad was the part of future plan of Allah, you cannot back up from that now.
I have not tried to 'back up' from that, I have not disputed that! Do you understand anything? The coming of A MESSENGER after Jesus and Moses and all the rest was planned, yes.
I have shown evidences that Allah choses the names of his Messengers,
You have shown me evidence He named Jesus and John, you have shown no evidence he names ALL the prophets to come and you have shown no evidence that He named Muhammed.SHOW ME A CONTRARY VERSE TO THIS and I will just accept that I am wrong on this part. Simple! isn't it?
Yes very simple, show me the verse where God says he named Muhammed and told Muhammed's parents before his birth.No! I donot understand, your problem towards Muhammad.
I have no problem at all with Muhammed, i do have a problem with you claiming God did and said things there is NO evidence for. You claim its a 'story' that his name was Muhammed from birth yet come up with a story yourself that he wasnt called Muhammed until God said it in Quran! ) you have insisted that Parklytos was the Aramaic and mother tongue of Jesus then back tracked to agreeing it was Greek, you are running round in circles trying to prove something you cant. The onus is on you to prove your claim, not on me to disprove it, it is already disproved by you being unable to show any evidence. What you are doing is the same as telling me Egyptiar fly Gatwick to Luxor on Thursday and showing me AlItalia timetable for Rome to London as proof. )
Refer above for the rest. Just one verse in your support and contrary to what I said, Just one verse.
thats all I ask, one verse to prove your claim, you cant, end of arguement.More than happy. You just need an Ayat to confirm what you are saying. Simple!
yes just one ayat to confirm what you're saying would be greatthe names of Prophets are chosen by Allah! I have provided evidences from Quran. Your time now.
You have provided evidence of 2, neither were Muhammed, try again.The verses you provided donot support your argument an iota.
So Ayisha without being sentimental Just show me one verse from Quran that Allah did not Authenticate the name Muhammad or even show me Allah doesnot choses the names of his prophets.
This will help you not calling others "fanatics", Stupids, and idiots.So calling me a liar is ok when I have not lied is it?
just get on with a verse proving your claim that God NAMED Muhammed with this name, from Quran, and told to Muhammeds parents before his birth and also one about your other claim that he was a prophet from birth but didnt know it and also provide proof of what his name for the first 40 years was if it wasnt Muhammed.
I think you have gone so round in circles you are so twisted up you cant prove anything Raj. Chill out, read Quran.
-
Since you take your time to find the verse.
Muslims 'elevate' Muhammed
I have fond one that yet again goes against your argument
944
We exalted you to an honorable positionand the verse you keep on posting about Idolizing, have you even read this Surah, or even some verses near to it, it would have saved you a lot of time..
12106 And most of them believe not in Allah without associating (other as partners) with Him!
Is this verse about those who Love Muhammad? or say that His path is the Path of Allah
12107
Have they guaranteed that an overwhelming retribution from GOD will not strike them, or the Hour will not come to them suddenly, when they least expect it?
12108
Say, "This is my path I invite to GOD, on the basis of a clear proof, and so do those who follow me. GOD be glorified. I am not an idol worshiper."Just to praise Muhammad as Allah Praised him, makes one an Idol worshiper?
Say "If you love God then follow me so God will love you and forgive your sins." God is Forgiver, Merciful.
Allah has blessed the believers by raising in their midst a messenger from among them, to recite for them His revelations, and to purify them, and to teach them the scripture and wisdom. Before this, they had gone totally astray
Say If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline or the dwellings in which ye delight - are dearer to you than God, or His Apostle, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until God brings about His decision and God guides not the rebellious.
and don't know what to say about persons who deny clear Signs of Allah.
-
You have nothing left in your argument, it is killed.
Many and many verses of Quran have proven that Muhammad Peace is upon him was not to be compared with animals, neither he was mere post man nor a part time messenger. You are obviously wrong in calling him any of that.
Muhammad was name given by his parents? I need proof for that, Which verse says that
(this is non commonsensical tactic of Quranists, and I have to follow that when dealing such non sense)I have provided evidence from Quran that Allah authenticated the name Muhammad, if he can change the name of Abrahim A.S, he could have also changed the name given by (Pagans). I also provided evidence from Quran that Allah chooses the name of Prophets. While you on contrary just keep on clutching the straws.
That issue of Parklytos has been discussed in detail.I will be waiting for that single verse from you whole my life.
-
did you forget to give me the words used in the Arabic for hand sculptured stone statues or are you assigning a meaning of your own to this?
Arabic words will come tomorrow, InshaAllah. However do you accept that in English statues means something hand sculpted, carved.
-
Since you take your time to find the verse.
Raj, just go find the verse to back up your claim.I have fond one that yet again goes against your argument
944
We exalted you to an honorable positionand what honourable position was it Raj? messenger of Allah was his position and there were other messengers of Allah. The word you have used as exaulted is also used in 263 and 293 and 4154 for a mountain 'raised' and in 4332 for some other men. This does not prove he was 'raised' higher than any other messenger of Allah. Chapter 9 He raised Idris to a high position.
and the verse you keep on posting about Idolizing, have you even read this Surah, or even some verses near to it, it would have saved you a lot of time..
12106 And most of them believe not in Allah without associating (other as partners) with Him!
Is this verse about those who Love Muhammad? or say that His path is the Path of Allah
12107
Have they guaranteed that an overwhelming retribution from GOD will not strike them, or the Hour will not come to them suddenly, when they least expect it?
12108
Say, "This is my path I invite to GOD, on the basis of a clear proof, and so do those who follow me. GOD be glorified. I am not an idol worshiper."Just to praise Muhammad as Allah Praised him, makes one an Idol worshiper?
Say "If you love God then follow me so God will love you and forgive your sins." God is Forgiver, Merciful.
Allah has blessed the believers by raising in their midst a messenger from among them, to recite for them His revelations, and to purify them, and to teach them the scripture and wisdom. Before this, they had gone totally astray
Say If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline or the dwellings in which ye delight - are dearer to you than God, or His Apostle, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until God brings about His decision and God guides not the rebellious.
and don't know what to say about persons who deny clear Signs of Allah.
These verses show Muhammed followed Gods path, a straight path, he wasnt an idol worshipper, he worshipped only GOD and that you are to follow THAT. Allah praised many, you dont go praising everyone Allah raised to a high status as Messenger of Allah, you ONLY do it with Muhammed. The verses I gave you are part of the 'every similitude' to make you think and see what you are doing. Muhammed knew full well there were other mesengers before him that Allah 'raised' to a high position, position of messenger like him, he did not utter praises each time thier names were mentioned as you do when his is mentioned. You raise him to a higher position than other messengers and you should not. There is NO verse from God or implied instructions from Muhammed telling you to do this, yet you do, you idolize him.
-
Arabic words will come tomorrow, InshaAllah. However do you accept that in English statues means something hand sculpted, carved.
Why not now, it cant be that hard to do for one so proficient in Arabic such as yourself is it? i dont need the full linguistic bits, just the words in Arabic, typed if possible please.
Statues can be hand carved or molded.
At the time Quran came people worshipped rocks, stones, stars, the sun, the moon, trees, and people, anything so telling you to not worship statues and leaving out the rest is rediculous. Your claiming this meant only hand carved statues allows you to worship another human being or the sun etc, where Allah has stated he has given you every kind of similitude, every example for those who think.
-
and what honourable position was it Raj? messenger of Allah was his position and there were other messengers of Allah.
I just can't repeat whole thread once again for you.
You raise him to a higher position than other messengers and you should not. There is NO verse from God....
Not me Allah does that and I for the last time for you I repeat my argument
These messengers; we blessed/elevated some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit.Is a prophet who was sent to guide 1,000 people equal to one who sent to guide 30,000 people, or to one sent to guide all of humanity? Let's take an example. Is the teacher of first-grade students equal to a teacher of fourth-grade students? Are the teachers of higher classes equal to professors or university teachers? All belong to the same administration and work under the same general program, their aim being to educate students. Yet, in view of the teacher's knowledge, they are not equal. Each is different from the other according to his learning, ability, and achievement. From the point of view of the aim of prophethood, all the prophets of Allah are equal. However, because of differences in rank and knowledge, they are different.
and to determine their rank read the following verses
And We have sent you not except as a mercy for all the worlds 21107
If it is been said for any other prophet please show me?
And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.
It is specially for Muhammad Peace is upon him.Now if you have some thing new, you are welcome, otherwise it is over from me for this particular subject. Yeah if you found the verse just please tell me.
and in the last following is a Ayat that exposes those who think of Muhammad as an ordinary person
Translation from Haqeeqat.org
And those who wronged/distorted the facts kept their whispers to people secret, "Is this man but a human being/ordinary person like you people?
Is it then you people come to the illusion while you people have the faculty of vision"Translation from Rashad Khalifa
Their minds are heedless. And the transgressors confer secretly "Is he not just a human being like you? Would you accept the magic that is presented to you?"Translation from Progressive-Muslims
Their hearts are preoccupied, and those who are wicked confer privately "Is he not a human being like you? Would you accept this magic while you know?"Do you just saw Ayisha what Adjectives Allah uses for those who think Muhammad Peace is upon him is an ordinary man?
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat21_files/21_3.gif
May Allah Guide you and Us.
So Ayisha if there ain't any thing new, then from me it is bye bye to your posts.
-
You have nothing left in your argument, it is killed.
I take it that means you are ending this because you cannot prove anything you have claimed. your arguement was dead before it left your keyboard.Many and many verses of Quran have proven that Muhammad Peace is upon him was not to be compared with animals, neither he was mere post man nor a part time messenger. You are obviously wrong in calling him any of that.
I didnt compare him to animals, are you blind or just blindly arrogant and blindly ignorant? He was here to deliver a message, he was a messenger, the message was Quran and nothing else. For 23 years of his life do you think everything he said was part of the message or that he never said anything else for 23 years but Quran verses? The message came to him and was recited by him 'in stages' so at those times he was performing his job as messenger, at other times he was still the messenger of Allah although not reciting the message but following it.Muhammad was name given by his parents? I need proof for that, Which verse says that
(this is non commonsensical tactic of Quranists, and I have to follow that when dealing such non sense)
no raj, you made the claim the name Muhammed was given to him by Allah and that was not his name until Allah called it him in Quran, you have yet to provide proof of that. It is a typical tactic of hadithist to make a claim they cannot back up and when it is refuted as nonsense they ask for proof while being unable to back up their original claim.I have provided evidence from Quran that Allah authenticated the name Muhammad, if he can change the name of Abrahim A.S, he could have also changed the name given by (Pagans).
You have provided proof Allah gave both Jesus and John thier names to their parents before thier birth. you have provided no proof of this with Muhammed. Yes He changed Abrahams name, it is not proof He gave Muhammed the name before his birth, but yes He could have and if He did then you can show me proof and the proof of what his name was given by pagans
I also provided evidence from Quran that Allah chooses the name of Prophets. While you on contrary just keep on clutching the straws.
You have provided proof Allah gave both Jesus and John thier names to their parents before thier birth. you have provided no proof of this with Muhammed.That issue of Parklytos has been discussed in detail.
yes and you were proven wrongI will be waiting for that single verse from you whole my life.
And I will be waiting for the proof of your original false claim my whole life. -
I just can't repeat whole thread once again for you.
you are doing, all in a bid to cover that you cannot provide proof of your false claims.Not me Allah does that and I for the last time for you I repeat my argument
These messengers; we blessed/elevated some of them more than others. For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit.
So once again to prove Muhammed had a higher rank than any other prophet you provide a verse about Jesus? Muhammed wasnt Jesus raj.Is a prophet who was sent to guide 1,000 people equal to one who sent to guide 30,000 people, or to one sent to guide all of humanity? Let's take an example. Is the teacher of first-grade students equal to a teacher of fourth-grade students? Are the teachers of higher classes equal to professors or university teachers? All belong to the same administration and work under the same general program, their aim being to educate students. Yet, in view of the teacher's knowledge, they are not equal. Each is different from the other according to his learning, ability, and achievement. From the point of view of the aim of prophethood, all the prophets of Allah are equal. However, because of differences in rank and knowledge, they are different.
Now because there is no proof that Allah raised Muhammed higher than any other prophet you are giving the sunni (your own) interpretations based on nothing but conjecture, well done raj, exposed for what you are. They are all equal but some are more equal than others, hilarious. laughand to determine their rank read the following verses
And We have sent you not except as a mercy for all the worlds 21107
If it is been said for any other prophet please show me?
And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.
It is specially for Muhammad Peace is upon him.
Read the whole of it raj.Now if you have some thing new, you are welcome, otherwise it is over from me for this particular subject. Yeah if you found the verse just please tell me.
Of course it is over for you because you cannot prove anything you claim. Go back to worshipping a man and leave me to worship Allah in peace.and in the last following is a Ayat that exposes those who think of Muhammad as an ordinary person
Translation from Haqeeqat.org
And those who wronged/distorted the facts kept their whispers to people secret, "Is this man but a human being/ordinary person like you people?
Is it then you people come to the illusion while you people have the faculty of vision"Translation from Rashad Khalifa
Their minds are heedless. And the transgressors confer secretly "Is he not just a human being like you? Would you accept the magic that is presented to you?"Translation from Progressive-Muslims
Their hearts are preoccupied, and those who are wicked confer privately "Is he not a human being like you? Would you accept this magic while you know?"Do you just saw Ayisha what Adjectives Allah uses for those who think Muhammad Peace is upon him is an ordinary man?
You really need to read more Raj. These verses are saying these people do not believe the WORDS he is reciting because he is an ordinary man like them, they think its from him and not from Allah. Just as you seem to really ;D They want proof like the prophets of old
021.005
YUSUFALI "Nay," they say, "(these are) medleys of dream! - Nay, He forged it! - Nay, He is (but) a poet! Let him then bring us a Sign like the ones that were sent to (Prophets) of old!"He was a human being raj.
May Allah Guide you and Us.
So Ayisha if there ain't any thing new, then from me it is bye bye to your posts.
Bye Raj
-
I just noticed 3 Stars with my name and "Truth seeker", I was delighted, from inquirer/beginner i have been elevated to Truth seeker, I thought I really had done something special, may be SAVAGE-Carrot was amused, but suddenly when I glanced at the name of Ayisha as a "Advance Truth seeker" with 4 stars, soon I realized, this has nothing to do with Quality but just the Quantity. laugh laugh
-
Why not now, it cant be that hard to do for one so proficient in Arabic such as yourself is it? i dont need the full linguistic bits, just the words in Arabic, typed if possible please.
I could not give you the words, by quote from Qur'aan, since just about 15 minutes were left for end time of Sehr and I had yet to take a cup of tea.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.074.gif
And when Iebra'heim said for his father, Azar, "Do you adopt sculpted/hand carved statues/figurines considering it as iela'aha?Complete text 674
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/026.%20Ash%20Shoara/026.%20A2.gif
And when he said for his father and his nation, "What is that which you people worship?"http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/026.%20Ash%20Shoara/26.71.gif
They said, "We worship statues, therefore/for that reason We keep shading for them by sitting around those/as devotee".http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/021.%20Al%20Anmbia/21.52.gif
when he said for his father and his people;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/021.%20Al%20Anmbia/21.52a.gif
"What are these statues, the one for which you people remain around attached"http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/037.%20As%20Safaat/37.95.gif
He asked them , "Do you people worship/exhibit allegiance to what you people sculpt?
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/029.%20Al%20Ankaboot/029.%20A5.gif
Those which you people are worshipping/demonstrating allegiance to other than Allah are only still statues and you people create falsity.2917
-
I could not give you the words, by quote from Qur'aan, since just about 15 minutes were left for end time of Sehr and I had yet to take a cup of tea.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.074.gif
And when Iebra'heim said for his father, Azar, "Do you adopt sculpted/hand carved statues/figurines considering it as iela'aha?Complete text 674
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/026.%20Ash%20Shoara/026.%20A2.gif
And when he said for his father and his nation, "What is that which you people worship?"http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/026.%20Ash%20Shoara/26.71.gif
They said, "We worship statues, therefore/for that reason We keep shading for them by sitting around those/as devotee".http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/021.%20Al%20Anmbia/21.52.gif
when he said for his father and his people;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/021.%20Al%20Anmbia/21.52a.gif
"What are these statues, the one for which you people remain around attached"http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/037.%20As%20Safaat/37.95.gif
He asked them , "Do you people worship/exhibit allegiance to what you people sculpt?
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/029.%20Al%20Ankaboot/029.%20A5.gif
Those which you people are worshipping/demonstrating allegiance to other than Allah are only still statues and you people create falsity.2917
But they are not any of the verses I quoted Mazhar. So now you are saying based on these verses, that any verse in Quran relating to taking other 'idols' beside Allah, or being mushriq in any way ONLY refers to hand carved statues and not other human beings? taking another human being as partner to Allah, like Christians do, is ok is it? ???
-
But they are not any of the verses I quoted Mazhar. So now you are saying based on these verses, that any verse in Quran relating to taking other 'idols' beside Allah, or being mushriq in any way ONLY refers to hand carved statues and not other human beings? taking another human being as partner to Allah, like Christians do, is ok is it?
Mazhar Sahib, you show her more, she will ask for more.
May Allah guide her.