al Masjid al Haram and al Masjid al Aqsa

RA786

Well I read this Book created by One of the Free-minders...(i think it was Lyth)?
called the National Republic...
I guess it pretty much sums it all up and explains safa and mawrah as being Stone for sacrfices...AND sighns/markers which is then connected with the Temple Mount Rock Dome in Jerusalam.

It goes into the Calendar and Ramadan....which I was totally confused...
(Ramadan AND the Night of Decree/Conception of Jesus IS in December/winter Solance?!??! as well as 10 days?) ??? )

you can read it here http//free-minds.org/sites/default/files/TNR.pdf

So IF the Hajj AND Qibla IS supposed to be at the Rock Dome...Do we Circle that and say La-illaha-illala-wadahulashareek-alah? rotfl

(to be honest I was looking foreward to Circle a Building 7 times screaming the Shahada! yes)
and what about Praying/Prostrating at it like We (or used to) do at the Ka'bah?
Do you Freeminders Prostrate to the Dome of Rock?
Do you Freeminders Plan on going to the Dome of Rock for Hajj anytime Soon?
Has ANYone here on this site ever went to do the Hajj their yet?

Peace/Salaam

herbman

Peace RA786,

If you use the search tool, you will find lots of debates about qibla/masjid alharam/Becca/Safa and Marwa /Hajj etc..

My personal conclusion are

qibla (accept God direction= the good path) , doing good things and prohibit the wrong is the good direction
masjid al haram= is not a location, I am studying it and my searches lead me to massajid ="religious practice" while haram is the forbiden, other seems to think it means "The Institution of Obedience".
Becca= with crowd
safa and marwa (stone, camel or goat, clarification, and extraction), for this one I am more with bro 1CELOSTNOWFOUND findings.
Hajj= argumentation/debate
hajj al beit= debate/argue for God's "social" system

Peace

RA786

Peace RA786,

If you use the search tool, you will find lots of debates about qibla/masjid alharam/Becca/Safa and Marwa /Hajj etc..

My personal conclusion are

qibla (accept God direction= the good path) , doing good things and prohibit the wrong is the good direction
masjid al haram= is not a location, I am studying it and my searches lead me to massajid ="religious practice" while haram is the forbiden, other seems to think it means "The Institution of Obedience".
Becca= with crowd
safa and marwa (stone, camel or goat, clarification, and extraction), for this one I am more with bro 1CELOSTNOWFOUND findings.
Hajj= argumentation/debate
hajj al beit= debate/argue for God's "social" system

Peace

Salaam herbman, Thanks for your reply.
I dont agree about your view of the Qibla. It would seem odd to me for God to repeat himself in different ways...like when he says "Do Good and forbid evil"...and later on say "Qibla"...(meaning the same)...instead of just using one word all the time if he was going to say that.
and then also in Context. why would the People of the Book Argue about Gods Change the path of Direction, and then Change it back later? and then Visit the Holy Shrine ? ???

Its seems much to vauge and broad terms that are almost identical. incredibly simple, and I think incompatible with the Context..
(But I am not well read in this subject, im just speaking of things I dont really know... )

If Hajj is a Debate/Argument for God's System... what is the purpose of shaving our heads, meeting at a place, sacrificing something, and only if we have the funds to do so? It doesnt seem like that makes much sense to me...

herbman

Peace RA,

This should answer your questions

2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of hardship and adversity and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous.

szuberi

Masjid Al Aqsa is a reference to the mosque of the prophet in medina and not the one in jerusalem. verse 171 says that masjid al aqsa is the one whose surroundings Allah has blessed? Now we all know the surroundings of jerusalem are not blessed at all....lol

the jerusalem mosque was not even built during the times of the prophet himself.

kgwithnob

Masjid Al Aqsa is a reference to the mosque of the prophet in medina and not the one in jerusalem. verse 171 says that masjid al aqsa is the one whose surroundings Allah has blessed? Now we all know the surroundings of jerusalem are not blessed at all....lol

the jerusalem mosque was not even built during the times of the prophet himself.

The above highlighting is from me.

Salaam Dear szuberi,

Do you think the Prophet's mosque was already built while the Prophet himself still living in Mecca before he immigrated to Medina?

Peace,
Khalil

szuberi

wasalam brother

lets see the verse again in full..

171 Glory be to the One who took His servant by night from the masjid al haram to the masjid al aqsa which We had blessed around, so that We may show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearer, the Seer

there are two things to note in this verse.

the night journey of the prophet from masjiid al haram to masjid al aqsa
masjid al aqsa is the masjid whose surroundings are blessed by Allah

hadith followers use this verse to propogate the night journey of the prophet on a flying carpet to the seven heavens and then enroute to the non existent masjid in jerusalem at the time. this cant be true since the surroundings of the masjid in jerusalem have been marred by bloodshed and voilence and shirk from day one.....nor the event of the night journey to the heavens is mentioned in anyway in the Quran. so this reference to the distant temple can be none other than the masjid in medina.

whether the actual masjid was in place completely at that time in medina is not 100% revelant. the reference is for a gathering/worship place that is distant and is blessed by God. the hijra is mentioned in the Quran and so is yathrib.

exodus

My latest view on meaning of Al-Masjid Al-Haram is "people"

It may refer to an attribution of the life form on Earth.

almarh0m

Peace

(quote )
"Do you Freeminders Prostrate to the Dome of Rock?" .

Nope , perhaps some do and some don't . I , bow ( respect ) and obey ( prostrate ) to "The Law" wherever I am . My understanding is that

Rukuu and Sujuud mean "respect and "obey" the law where-ever we are . I am comfortable with " The Inviolable Institution " or simply "The Law" for Masjid al Haram .

I stop praying facing The Rock and Black-Stone in Makkah ages ago .

Peace to you all .

almarh0m

afridi220

Peace

(quote )
"Do you Freeminders Prostrate to the Dome of Rock?" .

Nope , perhaps some do and some don't . I , bow ( respect ) and obey ( prostrate ) to "The Law" wherever I am . My understanding is that

Rukuu and Sujuud mean "respect and "obey" the law where-ever we are . I am comfortable with " The Inviolable Institution " or simply "The Law" for Masjid al Haram .

I stop praying facing The Rock and Black-Stone in Makkah ages ago .

Peace to you all .

almarh0m

Please sir if you don't mind can you translat Al marhom for me?

raginggaijin

This is from the Jewish Encyclopedia under 'Festivals'.

http//www.jewishencyclopedia.com/index.jsp

The Hebrews designated a festival by the word "ag" (the Arabic "ajj&quot, originally implying a choragic rhythmic procession around the shrine of an idol or an altar (see Wellhausen, "Skizzen und Vorarbeiten," 3106); but later, without specific reference to this usage, connoting a day or season of joy ("ag" and "simah" are correlatives; comp. Amos 710; Deut.1614). As fixed festivals occurred at appointed times, they came to be known as "mo'adim" or "mo'ade Yhwh"; and these became the technical terms for the prescribed holidays, with one exception (Lev. 232) always connoting festivals to the exclusion of the Sabbath and New Moon (Ex. 1310, 2315, 3418; Num. 92- 7; Num. 282; Deut. 166; Isa. 114, Isa. 3320), while "ag" denotes more specifically the three agricultural festivals (Ex. 2314), or the Festival of Unleavened Bread and Tabernacles (Lev. 236, Lev. 2334), or the latter only (Judges 2119; Ezek. Xlv25; II Chron. 53; see Bertheau on II Chron. 78-9).
?You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. As I commanded you, you shall eat unleavened bread for seven days at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. None shall appear before me empty-handed.? Exo. 2315
??e-a hammaw ti?mr ?i?a ym?m t?al maw ka??er i??i lmw? e? h?? k?-w y? mimmiryim wl?-yr?? fnay r?qm? Exo 2315
?You shall keep the Feast of Harvest, of the firstfruits of your labor, of what you sow in the field. You shall keep the Feast of Ingathering at the end of the year, when you gather in from the field the fruit of your labor.? Exo. 2316
?wa haqq?r bik?r? ma?ey ??er tizra? baeh wa h?sif b? ha??n? b?sp ?e-ma?ey min-haeh? Exo. 2316
?You shall observe the Feast of Weeks, the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year?s end.? Exo. 3422
?wa ?u? ta?eh l bik?r? q?r i?m wa h?s?f tq?fa ha??n?? Exo. 3422
Agricultural Festivals.
The harvest is the natural provocation for the farmer to rejoice and to manifest his gratitude to the Godhead. The oldest traditions (Judges 2119; I Sam. 13) mention a yearly festival of thanksgiving ("hillulim" Judges 927) after the vintage; and it is this festival which even later is called the festival (I Kings 82, 865; 1232, 1233; comp. Ezek. xlv. 25; Neh. 814). It was celebrated first by dancing in the vineyards (Judges xxi. 21); later, by processions to festal halls ("leshakot"; I Sam. 922), with music (Isa. 3029)?at Shiloh, for example (I Sam. 13), at Beth -el (I Kings 1232), and at Jerusalem (I Kings 638, 82; Isa. 291). As these festivals increased, the necessity arose of regulating them and of fixing them for certain seasons of the year; hence, in Isa. 291 allusion is made to a regular cycle of the "aggim" circuiting the year.

Hajj/Hag Ha-Sukkot Exo. 109, Exo. 51, Exo. 318, Exo. 134, Exo. 2314-17, Exo 3422-24, Deut 1613-16, Neh. 89-12, Neh. 21, Lev. 239-21, Est. 89
Surah 2059
Baca (Hebrew 'emeq habakka&#039 Psalm 841-12, Surah 396

The Jewish Encyclopedia was very informative on circambulation

Extension of Sukkot.

The seventh day of the festival is distinguished as the "great Hosha'na" (the Gospel accounts of Jesus' entry on Palm Sunday seem to have confused this with Pesa&#7717, or "the day of the palm-and willow-branches" (Suk. 42-45). Carrying in their hands branches at least eleven feet long, the celebrants make seven circuits around the desk, chanting "Hosha'na" (Ps. cxviii. 25), and then beat the floor with the branches. This custom, said to be of Mosaic origin, is undoubtedly an adaptation of a Babylonian rite (Yer. 'Ab. Zarah iv.).

Read more http//www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=125&letter=F&search=festivals#ixzz14zyFgyVJ

The Quran details exactly what we are to do for Hajj, and what to do if you cannot make the trip.
None of the pagan rituals are in the Quran, and that includes stoning an idol or circambulation.

Allah also gives warning
"And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say Surely Allah?s guidance, that is the guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper." Surah 2120

The Royal Institute of British Architects wrote papers on Jerusalem and the Arabian country in 1878-79. They discuss the Byzantine-Christian architecture of the Dome of the Rock in the first part, as well as the mine El-Marwah in their journeys around Midian towards Mecca.

http//books.google.com/books?id=6utEAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=mochura+arabia&source=bl&ots=Wy07wOGHko&sig=k10Pd0IhYv6YNfcyDXmU8RKMWMM&hl=en&ei=57KcS8DZLoOIsgOUo_l9&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=mochura%20arabia&f=false

http//books.google.com/books?id=4cxrdTIsUaIC&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=el+bada+el+maru&source=bl&ots=Tu09ZMGcwC&sig=DZvZgqs4luabSRI6BlTYWxF2q20&hl=en&ei=AB_YTJTdG5GcsQPkypWNCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=el%20bada%20el%20maru&f=false

Map of ancient Arabia
http//www.wdl.org/en/item/2923/zoom.html

Be careful of the Yahudians posing as Muslims to lead you astray. That includes all those who say the Dome of the Rock is our qiblah.

Al-Aqsa Masjid is the Temple destroyed twice. Surah 171,174-7,1760
"Subhana allathee asra biAAabdihi laylan mina almasjidi alharami ila almasjidi al-aqsa allathee barakna hawlahu linuriyahu min ayatina innahu huwa alssameeAAu albaseeru" Surah 171

The Kaaba is the place of sacrifice, where offerings are taken Surah 595-97, 2233
Sacrifice (nusukin) Surah 2196, 6162, 2234

Again, the Quran is clear on what to do if you can make the trip, and if you cannot.

Peace.

mmkhan

Salaam all,

wasalam brother

lets see the verse again in full..

171 Glory be to the One who took His servant by night from the masjid al haram to the masjid al aqsa which We had blessed around, so that We may show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearer, the Seer

there are two things to note in this verse.

the night journey of the prophet from masjiid al haram to masjid al aqsa
masjid al aqsa is the masjid whose surroundings are blessed by Allah

Where is "The Prophet" in 171 ??? Do you mean "His Servant" means "The Prophet" ??? Then how about 191 ??? Again "The Prophet" here ???

May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.

Mohammed M. Khan

raginggaijin

Salaam all,

Where is "The Prophet" in 171 ??? Do you mean "His Servant" means "The Prophet" ??? Then how about 191 ??? Again "The Prophet" here ???

May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.

Mohammed M. Khan

Please clarify something for me, as I fear I am misunderstanding.

Are you saying the 'servant' spoken of in Surah 171 is not the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?
If you are saying this, could you share with us who you believe it is?

The revelation of Allah, the word of an honored Messenger Surah 6940-43, 8119

Peace.

mmkhan

Salaaman ragin....n,

Sorry for late reply...

Yes, it is true that 171 is not referring to Prophet Mohammed... Just read on, again you will find 'Abd' in 173, whom is it referring to?

Please clarify something for me, as I fear I am misunderstanding.

Are you saying the 'servant' spoken of in Surah 171 is not the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?
If you are saying this, could you share with us who you believe it is?

The revelation of Allah, the word of an honored Messenger Surah 6940-43, 8119

Peace.

The word "Abd" could refer to anyone... Look at 192

192

'Abd' refers to Prophet Zakariyya WITH THE NAME after Abd.

If it is no one is mentioned with the name in 171, then how could you it is referring to Prophet Mohammed.

Abd simply means 'a Servant'. Please look at 4172, 1675, 1865, 1993, 9610 and lot more...

May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.

Mohammed M. Khan

raginggaijin

Salaaman ragin....n,

Sorry for late reply...

Yes, it is true that 171 is not referring to Prophet Mohammed... Just read on, again you will find 'Abd' in 173, whom is it referring to?

The word "Abd" could refer to anyone... Look at 192

192

'Abd' refers to Prophet Zakariyya WITH THE NAME after Abd.

If it is no one is mentioned with the name in 171, then how could you it is referring to Prophet Mohammed.

Abd simply means 'a Servant'. Please look at 4172, 1675, 1865, 1993, 9610 and lot more...

May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.

Mohammed M. Khan

Your choice. No one made you take that path or say the things you do. I am clear of what you set up with Allah.

"And when We said to thee, 'Surely thy Lord encompasses men,' and We made the vision that We showed thee and the tree cursed in the Koran to be only a trial for men; and We frighten them, but it only increases them in great insolence." Surah 1760

Peace.

mmkhan

Salaam,

Your choice. No one made you take that path or say the things you do. I am clear of what you set up with Allah.

Me??? o Set up partner with Allah??? & Allah knows best.

1039
1040
1041

1039 But, they have denied about that which they had no knowledge, nor has its explanation come to them. It is also how those before them denied, so see how was the retribution of the wicked!

1040 And there are some of them who believe in it, and some of them do not believe in it. Your Lord is better aware of the transgressors.

1041 And if they deny you, then say I have my deeds, and you have your deeds. You are innocent from what I do, and I am innocent from what you do.

May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.

Mohammed M. Khan

raginggaijin

"He has sent down upon you in the Book 'When you hear God's signs being disbelieved and made mock of, do not sit with them until they plunge into some other talk, or else you will surely be like to them.' God will gather the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in Gehenna." Surah 4140

"And when you see those who enter into false discourses about Our communications, withdraw from them until they enter into some other discourse, and if the Shaitan causes you to forget, then do not sit after recollection with the unjust people." Surah 668

"And when they hear idle talk they turn aside from it and say We shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds; peace be on you, we do not desire the ignorant." Surah 2855

"And the servants of the Beneficent God are they who walk on the earth in humbleness, and when the ignorant address them, they say Peace." Surah 2563

Peace.

almarh0m

Peace

For those who insisted that "al Masjid al Haram & al Masjid al Aqsa" as physical buldings, will need to prove with evidence from the Qur'an that indeed these supposedly holy structures, one is located in present day Makkah and the other in Jerussalem existed during the life time of the messenger. As I suggested from the lead post of this thread, al Masjid al Haram & al Masjid al Aqsa, are The Inviolable Institution of Obedience or "The Law", which formed the starting point or the launching-pad for any believers who wish to undertake the spiritual and intellectually jorney towards the farhthest place of sujud that is "al Masjid al Aqsa" as mentioned in 17/1.

Perhaps it is worth re-iterating here that "The Law" which all Mu'min follows but not necessarily all Muslims do are the the basic and well known law which are Among others 318 "Allah (Himself) is Witness that there is no Allah save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no Allah save Him the Almighty, the Wise". as well as ...............

22 "This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil)"
23 "Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them".

The above verses are the first to inform us that The Qur'an is a "Book of Guidance" as well as the first that mentioned the word salat,
which I took to mean as a commitment and to follow closely ( commitment to follow the law of Allah) which brings us to 1736, where we can only do what we know or believe in things that we can verify . Once we understood the above verses, if we wish to progress to a higher understanding and perhaps attaining wisdom, we could start by implementing Allah's commandments as he made clear for us below;

"Say Come, I will recite unto you that which your Lord hath made a sacred duty for you That ye ascribe no thing as partner unto Him and that ye do good to parents, and that ye slay not your children because of penury - We provide for you and for them - and that ye draw not nigh to lewd things whether open or concealed. And that ye slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred, save in the course of justice. This He hath command you, in order that ye may discern". ( Q.6151).
and

"And approach not the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better, till he reach maturity. Give full measure and full weight, in justice. We task not any soul beyond its scope. And if ye give your word, do justice thereunto, even though it be (against) a kinsman; and fulfil the covenant of Allah. This He commandeth you that haply ye may remember".(Q.6152).

"And (He commandeth you, saying) This is My straight path, so follow it. Follow not other ways, lest ye be parted from His way. This hath He ordained for you, that ye may ward off (evil)". (Q.6153).

Now having read all those verses relevant to "The Inviolable Institution of Obedience or The Law" and Allah's recommendation to follow his commandments, the natural progression for the true believers to achieve the desire of 'Enlightentment' or Self Realisation/Self Transcendence as per 171, as well as what verses from chapter 534-18 described. which are written below

" 4 It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired,
5 Which one of mighty powers hath taught him,
6 One vigorous; and he grew clear to view
7 When he was on the uppermost horizon.
8 Then he drew nigh and came down
9 Till he was (distant) two bows' length or even nearer,
10 And He revealed unto His slave that which He revealed.
11 The heart lied not (in seeing) what it saw.
12 Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he seeth?
13 And verily he saw him yet another time
14 By the lote-tree of the utmost boundary,
15 Nigh unto which is the Garden of Abode.
16 When that which shroudeth did enshroud the lote-tree,
17 The eye turned not aside nor yet was overbold.
18 Verily he saw one of the greater revelations of his Lord.

All these verses cited above confirmed that The Messenger himself went through the normal learning processes from basic knowledge to the fulfilment of his intellectual and spiritual potential, which is by reaching "Al Masjid Al Aqsa" .

Why is the physical structure in Makkah called Al Masjid al Haram, cannot be the one so named in The Qur'an ? Please read this

"

"Qad Nar? Taqalluba Wajhika F As-Sam'i Falanuwalliyannaka Qiblatan Tarh Fawalli Wajhaka Shara Al-Masjidi Al-armi Wa aythu M Kuntum Fawall Wujhakum Sharahu Wa 'Inna Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Layalamna 'Annahu Al-aqqu Min Rabbihim Wa M Allhu Bighfilin Amm Ya`malna". (Q2144).

"We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces (when ye pray) toward it. Lo! Those who have received the Scripture know that (this revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do".

"And even if thou broughtest unto those who have received the Scripture all kinds of portents, they would not follow thy qiblah, nor canst thou be a follower of their qiblah; nor are some of them followers of the qiblah of others. And if thou shouldst follow their desires after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, then surely wert thou of the evil-doers". ( Q.2145).

"Those unto whom We gave the Scripture recognise (this revelation) as they recognise their sons. But lo! a party of them knowingly conceal the truth". (Q2146)

From here why we can see that it is a physical Impossibity to to keep facing Al Masjid Al Haram if indeed the so called holy mosque was the one at Makkah. And "The Focal Point" for all Muslims and Mu'min is The Law of Allah and "Not Some physical" holy buildings somewhere in Saudi arabia. If only people would read and think of just these 2 verses regarding this topic, i.e 2144 and ...

" It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and each and every act of obedience to Allah, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masakin (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat ), and gives the Zakat, and who fulfil their covenant when they make it, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of fighting (during the battles). Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqun (the pious - See V.22). (Q1177).

Wassalamu' ala mani'taba'al hudaa

almarh0m

exodus

Wassalamu' ala mani'taba'al hudaa

Is there an English meaning of this phrase? If it's a greeting, can you explain your basic reason of attitude of using latin alphabet written Arabic phrase as greeting in an English forum.

Peace.

raginggaijin

For those who insisted that "al Masjid al Haram & al Masjid al Aqsa" as physical buldings, will need to prove with evidence from the Qur'an that indeed these supposedly holy structures, one is located in present day Makkah and the other in Jerussalem existed during the life time of the messenger.

Read the Quran.

Nowhere in the Quran does it designate 'maqami' as a fixed position like a rock or a pair of feet indented in the ground, but as a sphere of duty, a place of importance established for service to Allah.
Established place of service to Allah (maqami) Surah 6135, 1414, 1779, 37164
"And there is none of us but has an assigned place," Surah 37164

"Say 'O my people, act according to your station (makanatikum); I am acting. And assuredly you will know who shall possess the Abode Ultimate. Surely the evildoers will not prosper.'" Surah 6135
"and We will surely make you to dwell in the land after them -- that, for him who fears My station (maqamee) and fears My threat.'" Surah 1414
"And as for the night, keep vigil a part of it, as a work of supererogation for thee; it may be that thy Lord will raise thee up to a laudable station (maqaman)." Surah 1779

We are told Bacca, a holy place, contains the dwelling (maqami) of Abraham. Surah 396-97
Abraham (pbuh) asked Allah to bless the city where the House (bayt) was, and to raise up a Messenger from his lineage. Surah 2127-129
According to the Quran, the location of the place of Abraham (pbuh) is a sign for mankind. Surah 396-97
Abraham's wife lived there as well. Surah 1173

The Valley of Baca is spoken of as well in Psalm 841-12
"Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
in whose heart are the highways to Zion.
As they go through the Valley of Baca
they make it a place of springs;
the early rain also covers it with pools.
They go from strength to strength;
each one appears before God in Zion.
LORD God of hosts, hear my prayer;
give ear, O God of Jacob!" Psalm 845-8

Baca (Hebrew 'emeq habakka&#039 Psalm 841-12, Surah 396

I am told this ?Valley of Baca? is not the same spoken of in the Quran. After all, Zion is in Jerusalem, right?
Let us turn to the Bible to see if their teachings refute their claims.

We know the Temple in Jerusalem is not the station of Abraham, as Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Farthest Mosque found in Jerusalem, is named in the Quran. Surah 171

"Subhana allathee asra biAAabdihi laylan mina almasjidi alharami ila almasjidi alaqsa allathee barakna hawlahu linuriyahu min ayatina innahu huwa alssameeAAu albaseeru" Surah 171

Allah gives description of this Temple and its destruction ? twice ? in the Quran. It is the Temple of the Children of Israel. 174-7,1760

"Waqadayna ila banee israeela fee alkitabi latufsidunna fee alardi marratayni walataAAlunna AAuluwwan kabeeran
Faitha jaa waAAdu oolahuma baAAathna AAalaykum AAibadan lana olee basin shadeedin fajasoo khilala alddiyari wakana waAAdan mafAAoolan
Thumma radadna lakumu alkarrata AAalayhim waamdadnakum biamwalin wabaneena wajaAAalnakum akthara nafeeran
In ahsantum ahsantum lianfusikum wain asatum falaha faitha jaa waAAdu alakhirati liyasoooo wujoohakum waliyadkhuloo almasjida kama dakhaloohu awwala marratin waliyutabbiroo ma AAalaw tatbeeran" Surah 174-7

This Temple was created by Solomon (pbuh) and is the qiblah - place of devotion - of the Bani Israel and the Yahudians.

Solomon's qiblah I Kings 822-44

People say there is no indication of Pilgrimage in the Bible, yet the Quran shows Moses (pbuh) designated a specific day to contend with the Magi of Pharoah.

"'Your tryst shall be upon the Day of the Adornment (yawmu alzzeenati). Let the people be mustered at the high noon.'" Surah 2059

If it is in the Quran, which verifies the previous Books, we will find some indication of this in the previous Books.

Moses (pbuh) asked Pharaoh to take his people 3 days into the wilderness to give thanks to Allah, PRIOR to their leaving Egypt, before given their rites of devotion Hag Sukkot, Hag ha-Mazzot, and Hag Shabu'ot?

Hajj/Hag Ha-Sukkot Exo. 109, Exo. 51, Exo. 318, Exo. 134, Exo. 2314-17, Exo 3422-24, Deut 1613-16, Neh. 89-12, Neh. 21, Lev. 239-21, Est. 89

"And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness." Exo. 51
"And Moses said, We will go with our young and with our old, with our sons and with our daughters, with our flocks and with our herds will we go; for we must hold a feast unto the LORD." Exo. 109

The Hebrews designated a festival by the word "ag" (the Arabic "ajj&quot, originally implying a choragic rhythmic procession around the shrine of an idol or an altar (see Wellhausen, "Skizzen und Vorarbeiten," 3106); but later, without specific reference to this usage, connoting a day or season of joy ("ag" and "simah" are correlatives; comp. Amos 710; Deut.1614). "Hag" denotes more specifically the three agricultural festivals (Ex. 2314), or the Festival of Unleavened Bread and Tabernacles (Lev. 236, Lev. 2334), or the latter only (Judges 2119; Eze. 1125; II Chron. 53; II Chr. 78-9). (Jewish Encyclopedia)

?You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. As I commanded you, you shall eat unleavened bread for seven days at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. None shall appear before me empty-handed.? Exo. 2315
??e-a hammaw ti?mr ?i?a ym?m t?al maw ka??er i??i lmw? e? h?? k?-w y? mimmiryim wl?-yr?? fnay r?qm? Exo 2315
?You shall keep the Feast of Harvest, of the first fruits of your labor, of what you sow in the field. You shall keep the Feast of Ingathering at the end of the year, when you gather in from the field the fruit of your labor.? Exo. 2316
?wa haqq?r bik?r? ma?ey ??er tizra? baeh wa h?sif b? ha??n? b?sp ?e-ma?ey min-haeh? Exo. 2316
?You shall observe the Feast of Weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year?s end.? Exo. 3422
?wa ?u? ta?eh l bik?r? q?r i?m wa h?s?f tq?fa ha??n?? Exo. 3422

Moses and Aaron (pbut) were told to turn their homes in Egypt into places of devotion (qiblatan) Surah 1087
Prior to their acts revealed unto them through Moses and Aaron (pbut), they performed a different act of devotion.
Allah is clear He gave each nation acts of devotion (shaAAa-iri) Surah 52, 2232, 2234, 2236, 2267
Yahudians follow their rites given by Allah through Moses and Aaron (pbut).

We are Muslims. We perform the rites of Allah (shaAAa-iri Allahi) as He described in the Quran.
Hajj Surah 2158, 2189, 2196-197, 397, 51-2, 595-97, 91-5, 919, 2225-30. 2267, 6310, 7320
Pilgrimage a duty to those able to make their way there Surah 397
What to do if you cannot make Hajj Surah 2196-197
Hajj is annual Surah 2196-197
Days/Months well known Surah 2197, 936, 2228
Holy months are consecutive Surah 91-5, 936-37
Months of pilgrimage Surah 1062
Sacred month of Hajj Surah 2194, 2217, 52, 597, 91-5
Day of Greater Pilgrimage (beginning of 4 months) Surah 93
Fasting if you hunt during Hajj Surah 595
The Kaaba is the place of sacrifice Surah 595-97, 2233
Sacrifice (nusukin) Surah 2196, 6162, 2234

The Kaaba, the House, is named in the Quran. Surah 595-97
Allah is clear the Kaaba is the place of sacrifice/donation Surah 595-97, 2233

We know the Sacred Mosque was around during Muhammad's time because it is written in the Quran "O you who believe, the idolators are surely unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs." Surah 928

The qiblah of Muslims who follow the Quran is Masjid Al-Haram.
We are to face Masjid Al-Haram, the Sacred Mosque. Surah 2144,149,150. Allah tells us this three (3) times.
Allah tells us three (3) times "This is truth from thy Lord, so be thou not of the doubters." Surah 2144,147,149

Masjid Al-Haram surrounds the Kaaba.

"they give food, for the love of Him, to the needy, the orphan, the captive" Surah 768

There is reference to the House of Allah in the Bible, even though the polytheists are adverse to admitting it..
Isaiah 11-18 speaks of the Yahudians, the destruction of their lands and homes, and their festivals while in exile.

"Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city." Isa. 17

This was during the exile of the Yahudians after the first destruction of the Temple, and prior to their liberation by Cyrus the Persian.

"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them." Isa. 111-14

With the Temple destroyed, where would the Bani Israel go for their ?solemn meeting?
What courts of Allah were ?trampled? in new moon feasts when the Temple was destroyed by the armies of Nebuchadnezzar?

Cyrus the Persian is named Messiah in Isaiah 451 ? liberator of the Yahud during their captivity in Babylon. He decreed the reconstruction of the Temple. His successor Darius I, known as Dhul-Qarnain in the Quran, is credited with creation of the wall of Derbent in the Caucasus Mountains and is written in the Torah/Tanakh to have completed construction of the Temple in Jerusalem.

May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.

Peace.