Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah

Ayisha

Ayisha
You don't feel well! Go to sleep, and when you wake up find for me the verse, that tells us to wash the feet of Messengers?

I feel fine Raj. Who said there was a verse telling us that? I certainly didnt but now you mention it, find me the verse that tells you to raise Muhammed above all other messengers as im still waiting for that and countless others you have mde claim to AND the one where it says he was witness for all the WORLDS which you claimed earlier, oh and while you're at it, the one that says you can use a computer.

think about it! )

Ayisha

Though nowhere in Quran Allah has ordered that. Now before that statement you were disobeying Quran and even now you are disobeying Quran. You are a disbeliever, that has been proved on various accounts.
Thank you or raising yourself to position of God and declaring me a disbeliever, I think you will find you have certainly disobeyed Quran.

Ayisha
Which verse of Quran tells you to do such an act? You really are not following Quran.
There is no verse which tells me to do this act, i would do it of a mark of respect to any messenger of God. There is no verse telling me to communicate by computer or to ride a bus or wear shoes either or fly in a plane, but my disobedience to Quran obviously knows no bounds

You cannot hide weakness of your argument behind my English. I said Muhammad is the "most Exalted" amongst the Messengers, and it has nothing to do with Allah. You are proven a deceiver and Liar once again, every one knows who is reading the thread that we are discussing the status of messengers and not comparing messengers with Allah. Your deceitful attempt goes null and void, once again.

Your quote from page 24

Prophet is sent as a witness for all mankind, to all the worlds
O prophet, we have sent you as a witness, a bearer of good news, as well as a warner.

Ayisha regarding 944, it is you who can never understand the elevated status of beloved of Allah.

When reading whole Surah, it could be concluded that Muhammad Peace is upon him is disheartened by the attitude of people who do not give him due respect and do not believe in his teachings, in response. Allah mentions his favors upon his prophet, and one of them is 944, at the time this Ayat was revealed very few believed in its truthfulness, but as the Skies and Earth saw, soon His name was the most EXALTED one, still is and will remain in the future, no matter whatever tactics the Jealous people try using to down grade him.

Yes everyone reading this can surely see who said what

I wonder if you can explain verses 941-3 for me seeing as you have claimed what verse 4 is about.

Ayisha
Off course, this is a free-minds forum, and most of them will call Messengers, a Post man, compare them to Donkeys, or present them as part timers, well then it is my Duty to show them from quran what is the Status of them in eyes of Allah, and Allhamdullilah I have done my job, satisfactorily, your irritation and panic shows it. I am sure even if Posted this thread at Sunni forums, they would also not be feeling comfortable with it, as No where does this thread elevate the Status of Muhammad to semi God, or to a person who is to be worshiped.
so you have done your duty and you are not Quran alone, why are you still here? I have no irritation and no panic, amusement yes, panic no. You have not done your duty in showing ANY verse that raises Muhammed specifically above other messengers of Allah, you have managed to say Allah gives some a higher status and in that verse he mentions Jesus, so why are you not exalting Jesus above the rest? bring me a verse that specifically says Muhammed is higher in status than other messengers otherwise its you that is not actually following Quran, not me.

The verse which I chose to show you that Allah, has awarded different status for different Messengers, one does not need to be scholar in Arabic, to understand it.
I know, and it says about Jesus and Moses, not Muhammed.

I will repeat it for You
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat2_files/2_253.gif

Moses and Jesus have high status, but yet others are raised to higher ranks.
where does it say that? Where does it say Muhammed was raised to higher rank? Does Allah expect telepathy in this verse?

This verse clearly demolishes the claim of free-minders that Allah do not, make distinction between Messengers.
No it doesnt

We believe in all of them and that what they brought with them is from Allah and that they preached to the people to come to Allah and obey Him. The believers are to oppose what the Jews have done, for they accepted Moses, but disbelieved in Jesus. They are to also oppose the Christians, for they accepted Jesus, but disbelieved in Muhammad (peace is upon him). They are also to oppose Munafiqeens. They have to accept them all without any distinction.
Yes they all preached to worship the One God and the Jews changed it with their tongues by adding hadith and the Christians changed it to worhip of the prophet and the muslims raised the status of Muhammed in a similar way

But Allah clearly tells us that some of them are preferred over others, and you cannot deny this fact.
Does He? where? where does Allah tell us to 'prefer' one prophet over others?

And Why Muhammad over all others, more than enough proves from Quran have been provided for that.
You have provided NO proof! Not one single verse that says Muhammed is higher than any other prophet, not one!

Therefore there is no contradiction in Allah's Ayats as you keep on parroting.
I have not once said there is any contradiction in Allahs ayat, not once raj so you are a liar which can be clearly seen by anyone reading this thread.

No, not me Allah says it.
where? where does Allah say that because Muhammed was sent to all mankind he is better?

I am no sunni, shia or Quranist,etc. I am just a Muslim as Allah has announced in Quran.
Me too

The purpose of this thread was to make aware many Muslims that they should mention the name of Muhammad Peace is upon Him, with respect and honor, which most of free-minders failed to do in past. And I don't think so I have failed in the quest.

You have failed as you have not convinced anyone and not managed to bring one single verse to back up your claim. As for sallalahu alayhi wa salam, the jury is still out on that waiting Mazhars translation of it complete as far as im aware, although he does seem to be avoiding it. Maybe you could translate it for us and also the verse you claim tells you to do this 'act' ??

No one in these forums has ever not given Muhammed respect, we follow Quran so how can anyone who follows Quran NOT respect the messenger that delivered it?

Raaajah

I wonder some times how illogical and self centered are people some times.
Ayisha

Thank you or raising yourself to position of God and declaring me a disbeliever, I think you will find you have certainly disobeyed Quran.

Irrelevant.
Ayisha

There is no verse which tells me to do this act, i would do it of a mark of respect to any messenger of God. There is no verse telling me to communicate by computer or to ride a bus or wear shoes either or fly in a plane, but my disobedience to Quran obviously knows no bounds

Therefore you do an act which is not supported from Quran. You also admit it is not possible to have Ayat for each and every detail in Quran. Just keep this in mind.
Ayisha

Your quote from page 24
Yes everyone reading this can surely see who said what

What? you are exposed, every one knows we were talking about status of messengers, and not comparing Allah with Messengers, that is not logical or even thinkable.
Ayisha

why are you still here?

Do you have authority to send me away?
Ayisha

Quote
This verse clearly demolishes the claim of free-minders that Allah do not, make distinction between Messengers.
No it doesnt

I know, and it says about Jesus and Moses, not Muhammed

Even for a short while, if we take that this Ayat is about Jesus and Musa, still it demolishes the claim, that Allah makes no distinction amongst his Messengers.
Ayisha

But Allah clearly tells us that some of them are preferred over others, and you cannot deny this fact.
Does He? where? where does Allah tell us to 'prefer' one prophet over others?

I have shown you many times. Verse 2253 and 1755

Your Lord is the best knower of everyone in the heavens and the earth. In accordance with this knowledge, we preferred some prophets over others. For example, we gave David the Psalms.

Allah has preferred some over others, this is a fact which you cannot deny!

Ayisha

You have provided NO proof! Not one single verse that says Muhammed is higher than any other prophet, not one!

I have provided many, but since your short sightedness is hindrance in accepting, let us try this way,
Do you agree from above verses that Allah prefers some messengers over others, let us not mention the name of Muhammad peace is upon him yet, cause it irritates some.
So Ayisha, Does Allah prefer some messengers over others, according to above Ayats?
Yes or No? if NO why?

Simple.

Ayisha

I wonder some times how illogical and self centered are people some times.
I know, it's amazing. You have been totally illogical all the way through this discussion

AyishaIrrelevant.
Not irrelevant at all, you have been illogical and self centred to the point of declaring me a disbeliever

Therefore you do an act which is not supported from Quran.
are you completely stupid Raj or just typing complete rubbish? Is it 'supported in Quran' that you can use your computer? find me the verse!

You also admit it is not possible to have Ayat for each and every detail in Quran. Just keep this in mind.

I think you need to wake up or get someone to explain in your own language what you have just said as it's complete nonsense.

Ayisha
What? you are exposed, every one knows we were talking about status of messengers, and not comparing Allah with Messengers, that is not logical or even thinkable.

I know it is and you said it.

Ayisha
Do you have authority to send me away?
did I 'send you away' or did I ask why you're still here? Do you have authority to declare me a disbeliever?

Ayisha
Even for a short while, if we take that this Ayat is about Jesus and Musa, still it demolishes the claim, that Allah makes no distinction amongst his Messengers.
this ayat IS about Moses and Jesus as it says and we take this for ever, not for a short while, its there in Quran, or don't you see that Raj? Would you like to change one of the names to Muhammed perhaps thinking God forgot to name Muhammed when saying how He raised some to higher ranks? You are talking complete rubbish now, in fact there is no change in that.

Ayisha
I have shown you many times. Verse 2253 and 1755

Your Lord is the best knower of everyone in the heavens and the earth. In accordance with this knowledge, we preferred some prophets over others. For example, we gave David the Psalms.

Allah has preferred some over others, this is a fact which you cannot deny!
great now you have David! So we have Moses, Jesus and David.

Now look here

6.83 And this was Our argument which we gave to Ibrahim against his people; We exalt in dignity whom We please; surely your Lord is Wise, Knowing.

6.84 And We gave to him Ishaq and Yaqoub; each did We guide, and Nuh did We guide before, and of his descendants, Dawood and Sulaiman and Ayub and Yusuf and Haroun; and thus do We reward those who do good (to others).

6.85 And Zakariya and Yahya and Isa and Ilyas; every one was of the good;

6.86 And Ismail and Al-Yasha and Yunus and Lut; and every one We made to excel (in) the worlds

What I made bold is the same word used as 'preferred' in 1755

17.17 How many generations have We destroyed since Noah! And Allah sufficeth as Knower and Beholder of the sins of His slaves.
17.18 Whoso desireth that (life) which hasteneth away, We hasten for him therein what We will for whom We please. And afterward We have appointed for him hell; he will endure the heat thereof, condemned, rejected.
17.19 And whoso desireth the Hereafter and striveth for it with the effort necessary, being a believer; for such, their effort findeth favour (with their Lord)
17.20 Each do We supply, both these and those, from the bounty of thy Lord. And the bounty of thy Lord can never be walled up.
17.21 See how We prefer one of them above another, and verily the Hereafter will be greater in degrees and greater in preferment.

should we also praise the pious ordinary people that Allah has 'preferred' over others? Or those that have been granted more of Allah's bounty?

17.22 Set not up with Allah any other god (O man) lest thou sit down reproved, forsaken.

17.23 And your Lord has commanded that you shall not serve (any) but Him, and goodness to your parents. If either or both of them reach old age with you, say not to them (so much as) "Ugh" nor chide them, and speak to them a generous word

Ayisha You have provided NO proof! Not one single verse that says Muhammed is higher than any other prophet, not one!

I have provided many, but since your short sightedness is hindrance in accepting, let us try this way,
Do you agree from above verses that Allah prefers some messengers over others, let us not mention the name of Muhammad peace is upon him yet, cause it irritates some.

It must be your shortsightedness hindering your acceptance of the clear FACT you have not provided ONE SINGLE VERSE which says Muhammed is higher than any other prophet now you want to play games, ok play! The mention of Muhammed does not cause me any irritation so stop lying and making false accusations. here i will prove that to you

MUHAMMED MUHAMMED MUHAMMED MUHAMMED MUHAMMED MUHAMMED MUHAMMED MUHAMMED

There you go you can see, no irritation at all.

So Ayisha, Does Allah prefer some messengers over others, according to above Ayats?
Yes or No? if NO why?

Simple.

Raj, just ONE verse please, I have proven above that you cannot give one verse that names Muhammed in a higher rank than other messengers and I have provided proof that Allah 'preferred' all those named over all mankind. Allah tells you what He gave some but not once does He tell YOU to PREFER Muhammed over all other messengers and no amount of twisting His words will make a verse appear. I check the verse YOU claim mean Muhammed daily and still they say Moses Jesus and David and the above verse I gave you shows ALL those messengers and prophets where raised above all mankind BECAUSE ALLAH PREFERRED them over the rest of mankind.

So play you game, take it as I answer yes to your question and lets see what you come up with now, considering you have said in this post that it is not possible to have an ayat for each and every detail of Quran laugh

Raaajah

Rajah

So Ayisha, Does Allah prefer some messengers over others, according to above Ayats?
Yes or No? if NO why?
Simple.

Ayisha

...take it as I answer yes to your question....

Jazaakallah...

So up to now You agree

That Messengers of Allah are above all the human beings, they are not ordinary persons.
(and additionally You will be one of those in line to wash their feet).
Among these Messengers Allah prefers some over others,due to different reasons.

Ayisha

RajahAyisha
Jazaakallah...

So up to now You agree

That Messengers of Allah are above all the human beings, they are not ordinary persons.
(and additionally You will be one of those in line to wash their feet).
Among these Messengers Allah prefers some over others,due to different reasons.

Is that it?

Raj, 1) I have never disputed that EVER and that was NOT the subject we have discussed all these pages, so now you are doing the same as Mazhar and claiming we were discussing something totally different to what we where and praising Allah that i have now agreed! I stated the feet washing OVER 2 weeks ago on another thread, this has NEVER been the issue and you damned well know it! Everyone here sees what you are doing and so does Allah, Alhamdulillah!
2) Allah blessed some with things that others were not blessed with. I have again never disputed that and that is again not the issue we have been discussing

I take it again you still cannot provide a verse stating Muhammed is more 'preferred' over all other prophets?

Raj, please go and ask Allah for guidence and read the book with an open heart, sincerely, and then come back with some logic, stop wasting my time.

Raaajah

Patience Ayisha,

Every one knows what you disputed and what you did not?

For example just few posts back you were of the view that, Allah does not make any distinction among Messengers, but now you have totally different view.
Few posts back you were comparing Messengers with Donkeys, now you are ready to Wash their feet.

Therefore little patience dear. Otherwise this was said from day one, which took you about 15 pages to understand and Admit.

NOW IT IS CLEAR UP TO HERE THAT

Messengers are above ordinary Human beings. (and you ready to wash their feet)
Allah prefers some of the Messengers over others, due to different reasons. (This demolishes your claim that Allah makes no distinction among Messengers)

and now the question Why Muhammad? to answer this question we had to recognize that Allah prefers some Messengers over others, and has Given some Higher ranks than others, which at last you admitted and hope you will not run from this as usual.

I take it again you still cannot provide a verse stating Muhammed is more 'preferred' over all other prophets?

I have provided you many Ayats, but you have just bypassed them conveniently, therefore I will not do the same this time, I will just post a Single or Two Ayats and we discuss them and then move on further

This is a proclamation for people who are devout
And We have not sent you except as a mercy to the worlds.

http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat21_files/21_107.gif

And during a part of the night wake up for its recitation - a supererogatory service for thee, soon will thy Lord raise thee to a Maqaam Mahmooud

http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat17_files/17_79.gif

Blessed is HE who has sent down Al-Furq?n to HIS servant, that he may be a Warner to all the worlds

http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat25_files/25_1.gif

Now to start with, these three verses talk about the Elevated status of Muhammad Peace is upon him.

Your Turn, but please be logical and if you have any thing other than bashing me or Mazhar, stage is all yours.

Ayisha

Patience Ayisha,

Every one knows what you disputed and what you did not?
yes they do, was that a question?

For example just few posts back you were of the view that, Allah does not make any distinction among Messengers, but now you have totally different view.

no, I was of the view that WE should not make any distinction among messengers, I still am of that view.

Few posts back you were comparing Messengers with Donkeys, now you are ready to Wash their feet.
No i have not 'compared' messengers to donkeys, i did say that if THE MESSAGE was brought BY a donkey OR fell off a TREE or was written on the side of a mountain I would still believe in THE MESSAGE.

Therefore little patience dear. Otherwise this was said from day one, which took you about 15 pages to understand and Admit.
I obviously have a great deal of patience, 'dear', as for 15 pages I have said the same things but it took you 15 pages to accept what i said, and here you are still trying to twist it to make it something else.

NOW IT IS CLEAR UP TO HERE THAT

Messengers are above ordinary Human beings. (and you ready to wash their feet)
never disputed
Allah prefers some of the Messengers over others, due to different reasons. (This demolishes your claim that Allah makes no distinction among Messengers)
disputed that WE make a distinction

and now the question Why Muhammad?
oooh goody, are we going to get the long awaited verse that says raise Muhammed higher than any other prophet and send him worship and praise him above all creation??

to answer this question we had to recognize that Allah prefers some Messengers over others, and has Given some Higher ranks than others, which at last you admitted and hope you will not run from this as usual.

I have provided you many Ayats, but you have just bypassed them conveniently,
erm no raj, none of those ayat contained the name Muhammed, they did however contain Jesus, Moses and David and i provided one naming all other messengers and prophets that Allah had blessed above all mankind, but sadly even that one didnt name Muhammed as THE MOST Exalted as you claim him to be.

therefore I will not do the same this time, I will just post a Single or Two Ayats and we discuss them and then move on further

This is a proclamation for people who are devout
And We have not sent you except as a mercy to the worlds.

ok, this is Mazhars translation and you need to apply a bit of logic, which you are sadly lacking. i will try to help you a little

Does Muhammed go to Mars, Venus, Pluto and other 'worlds' to preach the message?

3.108, does this verse mean that Allah wants Muhammed to go and recite His words to other planets?

3.96 is the House built at mecca (Bacca) also on other planets as it says its for 'the worlds' too or do the aliens from other worlds visit earth to do hajj?

6.90, 12104, Quran is a reminder for 'the worlds' so do they read it in Arabic or is it translated into Martian, Venusian etc for them?

21.71 the land Allah blessed for Abraham and his nephew Lot seems to be for all 'the worlds', do Aliens visit it and are there any contracts dividing that land between the 'worlds'?

21.91 Mary and her son were a sign for all the worlds, do these and Muhammed battle it out who goes to which world or is there a set schedule divised by Allah?
(Interestingly enough we now have 3 of high rank who were here 'for all the worlds', where is the praise to Mary and Jesus raj?)

25.1 is the reminder that is for all the worlds, not the bringer of the reminder.

29.15 God saved Nur and family and the ship as a sign for all the worlds, so was the video of it sent to the other planets or had they got satellite set up then?

38.87, 68.52, 81.27 Quran again a reminder for the worlds.

Now to start with, these three verses talk about the Elevated status of Muhammad Peace is upon him.
Ok great! yalla, get on with answering my questions above based on 2 of your verses. Don't foget to use LOGIC Raj ;D

Your Turn, but please be logical and if you have any thing other than bashing me or Mazhar, stage is all yours.

I am logical, so now you use some logic in answering my very logical questions based on the verses I have showed you that use 'all the worlds' as the same word in Arabic that you have given me.

Mazhar

Raajah, very relevant post, but translation is quite weak.

After negation, there is exceptive particle Illa which makes the next word to be taken in absolute sense.

Mazhar A. Nurani "And We have not sent you, the Messenger Muhammad except as Mercy Personified for the known worlds, all that exists".

Ayisha

Raajah, very relevant post, but translation is quite weak.

After negation, there is exceptive particle Illa which makes the next word to be taken in absolute sense.

Mazhar A. Nurani "And We have not sent you, the Messenger Muhammad except as Mercy Personified for the known worlds, all that exists".

But the other 'worlds' did exist then Mazhar and where known, so please feel free to answer my questions I posed to raj if you wish

Mazhar

But the other 'worlds' did exist then Mazhar and where known, so please feel free to answer my questions I posed to raj if you wish

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/001.%20Al%20Fateha/1.02a.gif

The Infinite Glory and Praise eternally is entirely and exclusively for Allah, the Sustainer Lord of the Known/Existing Worlds-All that exists.

Mazhar

Does Muhammed go to Mars, Venus, Pluto and other 'worlds' to preach the message?

3.108, does this verse mean that Allah wants Muhammed to go and recite His words to other planets?

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.036.gif
and for you people the dwelling-place and your means of livelihood is in the Earth up to an appointed time".

Ayisha

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/001.%20Al%20Fateha/1.02a.gif

The Infinite Glory and Praise eternally is entirely and exclusively for Allah, the Sustainer Lord of the Known/Existing Worlds-All that exists.

That doesnt answer any of my questions, nor is it to do with Muhammed. I KNOW that Allah is Lord and Sustainer AND Creator of all the WORLDS and the entire UNIVERSE, but it doesn't answer what i asked.

However, I would like to draw your attention to the first sentence and ask why the praise on Muhammed when it is clear that "The Infinite Glory and Praise eternally is entirely and exclusively for Allah, "

is it exclusive 'but' ?

Ayisha

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.036.gif
and for you people the dwelling-place and your means of livelihood is in the Earth up to an appointed time".

Again doesnt answer my questions raised based on the translation Raj gave. In fact its nothing to do with any of it and considering your translations also show that Muhammed was for 'all the worlds' I would expect a little more of a detailed answer.

This verse is saying WE are here on Earth, which is understood, but what about Muhammed and jesus and mary and Quran and noah's ship, all for 'all the worlds' so do they all go to other 'worlds' and just we stay here or what?

Raaajah

I will not allow you to play your dirty tricks this time.

I have posted three Ayats, your main objection to the Ayats is, these are not for Muhammad, alright let us first make clear to whom these three Ayats are related to?

Ayisha

erm no raj, none of those ayat contained the name Muhammed, they did however contain Jesus, Moses and David and i provided one naming all other messengers and prophets that Allah had blessed above all mankind, but sadly even that one didnt name Muhammed as THE MOST Exalted as you claim him to be.

Where is Jesus,Moses or DAvid in the three Ayats I mentioned above? why are you making yourself a laughing stock? I will come to the Ayat that you have mentioned and brust your bubble, but right now stop playing dirty old tricks, and answer me

If these three Ayats are not for Muhammad? whom do these address?

Ayisha

ok, this is Mazhars translation and you need to apply a bit of logic, which you are sadly lacking. i will try to help you a little

No. This is not Mazhar's translation. Stop being stupid.

Ayisha

Does Muhammed go to Mars, Venus, Pluto and other 'worlds' to preach the message?

Sure, I will answer that, from Quran, but as of now, concentrate on these three verses, prove it to me that they are not for Muhammad? as you claim.

So this time a straight forward answer is what is needed, if you want a healthy conversation.

First read these three Ayats, i posted, and then answer the question above.

Raaajah

Ayisha

But the other 'worlds' did exist then Mazhar and where known, so please feel free to answer my questions I posed to raj if you wish

Ayisha

Again doesnt answer my questions raised based on the translation Raj gave. In fact its nothing to do with any of it and considering your translations also show that Muhammed was for 'all the worlds' I would expect a little more of a detailed answer.

Patience is the word. As of now answer the question above.

Ayisha

I will not allow you to play your dirty tricks this time.
My 'dirty tricks'? You mean the ones where I apply logic and refute your silly claims then ask you questions you can never answer?

I have posted three Ayats, your main objection to the Ayats is, these are not for Muhammad, alright let us first make clear to whom these three Ayats are related to?
Where did i say that? Did you even bother reading what I wrote Raj? This foolish claim is proof you have no idea what you are talking about, or its YOU up to your dirty tricks yet again.

Ayisha
Where is Jesus,Moses or DAvid in the three Ayats I mentioned above? why are you making yourself a laughing stock? I will come to the Ayat that you have mentioned and brust your bubble, but right now stop playing dirty old tricks, and answer me
More proof you either didnt read what I said, or didnt read what I was answering or are again up to your dirty tricks. My reply was not related to the 3 ayat you posted. I asked for ayat which proved you claim that Allah 'preferred' Muhammed over any other messenger and you claimed you have posted many. go and read again where you claimed you have posted many ayat BEFORE you posted those 3, claiming they were proof but they contained names of all BUT Muhammed as I said. You are the laughing stock Raj, you are claiming I answered your 3 ayat before you even posted them rotfl yalla Raj, 'brust' my bubble.

If these three Ayats are not for Muhammad? whom do these address?
where did I say they weren't? I didn't, I asked you questions based on them which you obviously are unable to answer

AyishaNo. This is not Mazhar's translation. Stop being stupid.
I put them in search and nothing came up anywhere, so they are not known or accepted translations. You gave verse numbers but in your stupidity or part of your dirty little tickery, failed to give chapter numbers so in order to look at them I have to find which chapter they were from. i had to use Mazhar's site to find them, but I only searched the first one as I don't have all day and night to waste on you. Then I looked at the word used for 'all the worlds' and searched that to find the rest. Stop avoiding my questions Raj

Ayisha
Sure, I will answer that, from Quran, but as of now, concentrate on these three verses, prove it to me that they are not for Muhammad? as you claim.
I didn't claim they weren't Raj. Prove to me I claimed those 3 ayat are not for Muhammed. You are again playing your dirty tricks where you ask a question, I answer it and raise a question for you and you come back claiming I didnt answer it and ask me more based on what I didnt say. Tired old dirty tricks raj that everyone reading can see. So, answer that question based on Quran like you just claimed you can.

So this time a straight forward answer is what is needed, if you want a healthy conversation.

First read these three Ayats, i posted, and then answer the question above.

I did. Healthy conversation with you is an impossibility as you have proven over and over as you don't read or understand anything, cannot answer anything and accuse me of saying things I didnt. How can I have a healthy conversation with one that is totally illogical, tells blatant lies and is unable to answer anything?

Ayisha

AyishaAyisha
Patience is the word. As of now answer the question above.

I have, now you answer mine. I have lots of patience Raj, one has to when one is dealing with an obvious idiot who is unable to use logic and never answers any questions.

stillearning

AOA Rajaah
I recently started reading this thread but after about 19 pages jumped to the last pages, apologies if I have missed any thing, but the the whole discussion is just going round is circles. Whislt I have no wish to get involved in prolonging this circular argument. Few observations and questions, particularly for you and Mazhar.

Could you please clarify what you mean by praising Mohd? From what I have read so far you appear to be clear that we should not be praying to Mohd or assigning any supernatural powers. My understanding also is that everyone seems to accept that Mohd was a worthy of praise for obvious reasons. Indeed I could add that most humans at one time or other are worthy of praise for their actions or qualities. However where I am not sure (and I assume others have found the same problem) what is different about your praise.

I agree with you that, despite my disagreement with some of its founder members view on issues such as Hajj etc, that this is the best muslim site. For me at least from my not so frequent visits. I would assume that you like I are in constant search of truth and are gracious enough to accept mistakes, for it enhances the quality of discussion. Hence if you categorically claim that a word is Armaic and then discover that it is actually Greek then wriggling around try to claim to the contrary. I am afraid weakens the merits of the rest of your points. As it then appears that the discussion is not bout establishing the truth but the glory of winning the debate.

AOA Mazhar
Sorry most of your points have been beyond my comprehension. HoweverI did agree initially about your insertion about the part time messanger but once the explanations of the original point were stated it became clear what the author meant. I think it would have been sesensible to accept its merits. For whislt the judge will always retain the title of a judge, even after he/she has departed this world. He /she cannot continue to perform the duties of a judge.

I found your persistent use of the english lady in reference to Aysha as patronising and hint of racism. I cannot see the relevance of ones ethnic origin to this discussion.

Regards

Raaajah

More proof you either didnt read what I said, or didnt read what I was answering or are again up to your dirty tricks. My reply was not related to the 3 ayat you posted.

What else can be proof of your Ignorance? Sigh!

After reading this, what I said
Rajah

I have provided you many Ayats, but you have just bypassed them conveniently, therefore I will not do the same this time, I will just post a Single or Two Ayats and we discuss them and then move on further

Rajah

Now to start with, these three verses talk about the Elevated status of Muhammad Peace is upon him.

Rajah

First read these three Ayats, i posted, and then answer the question above.

and you

My reply was not related to the 3 ayat you posted.

Do you read before you post? you are proving yourself to be mental midget. No healthy conversation can be carried out with a person who even does not bothers to read the views of opposing side and poses as a bigot.