a good sunni is
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I like this argument. To know what's a good Sunni, we have to know what is Sunnism, and how's its system.
Just like 'a good Zionist', its meaning could be killing hundred of Palestinians... >D
Sunniism constitutes a 'majority' among "moslem" population.
Just like "Rabbanic Judaism" constitutes a majority among Judaism population.
And "Zionist" among Israelites, although not all Jews are "Rabbanic Judaism" and not all Israelites are Zionists.As thus they (feel) that they own the ISLAM (tm) rights.
Those infidel Ahmadiya, Jainisim, Sufis, Shiites and others are not Islam they are Ahmadiya, Jainism, Sufis and SHiites.When people refer to "Islam" nowadays it actually refers to "Sunniism".
Suniism as thus "Islam" constitute much similarity to "Rabanic Judaism" as shown on this paper
http//www.houseofdavid.ca/isl_jud.htm -
The earliest mention of it is found among the Jews when they divided into Karaite Jews and Rabbanical Jews and later on with the Christians when they divided into Protestants and Catholics.
Corrections,
- Jews and Judaism is not the same, I think you refer to Karaite Judaism and Rabbanical Judaism
- The 'christians' were once considered as 'heretical sect within Judaism, the term "christians" or "messianic people" were actually derogetary terms to label "Those heretics who believed that those bastard Iashua were actually the Messiah". Quite similar to the "ahmadiya" considered as 'heretical sect' within today Sunniism.
- Judaism back then were also divided with myriad of other sects, some of them are Phariseec Judaism, Saducee Judaisn, Essenian Judaism (John the baptist were considered borned within Essenian sects). Among all of those sects the Phariseec were the most organized. Infact I think they're the one who lay the 'foundation of organized religion' in the first place which soon to be followed by (traditional) Christians and Islam (read Sunniism and Shiaism)
- Christians / messianic people started to gain ground over Judaism, and by then the "christians" were already divided into hundreds of small sects. That's why there are need to host 'nicean council' to form a (forced) uniformity within Christianism as Christianism were about to be declared as Roman Empire Official Religion.
- Organized Christian religion divided to two as Roman Empire were divided into Western Roman Empire (Rome) and Eastern Roman Empire / Byzantium (Constantinople) this split is still visible right now with Roman Catholic (west) and Orthodox (east) church.
- Catholic and Protestant split happens much later and it's actually a split within Western Christians / Roman Catholic.
- Sunni and Shiite splits were also politically motivated, Sunni were those who follow "Muawiyah ruling" and Shiites were those who follow "Ali Ibn Abi Thaleeb" ruling.
- Sunni and Shiites continue to splites among smaller-smaller sect, notable one are Ahmadiya which considered to be a spin off from Sunniism.
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if a 'good sunni' is one who follows the koran by 'obeying' and 'following' muhammad - help me to understand how anyone can really claim to be a 'good sunni' as we only have snippets of things that muhammad apparently said and did. how about all the things that he said and did that have not been recorded? there are so many hadiths from only one of his wives, aisha. how about khadija, and others? abu huraira followed him around for 2 years but i am sure he wasn't with him 24hrs 7 days - how about the things that muhammad said after or before or when abu huraira wasn't around?
no woman would be considered a 'good sunni' as muhammad was a man. if it is 'sunna' for a man to grow a beard, well how about a woman who also has to 'follow' muhammad? if it is not sunna of the prophet to wear gold, then it is also not sunna of the prophet to be wearing jeans.
it seems 'good sunni' is really a oxymoron if it defines those who follow the hadiths.
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let's first define a bad sunni.A bad sunni is anyone who uses logic and reasoning and studies Koran first ( and if it is difficult to understand), then Handpicks hadith.
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let's first define a bad sunni.A bad sunni is anyone who uses logic and reasoning and studies Koran first ( and if it is difficult to understand), then Handpicks hadith.
And DEAD SUNNI is those who uses logic and reject totally the hadith and dare enough to say it in public.
I revised that DEAD SUNNI is those who dare to challenge even the slightest dogma which being mandated to be mandatory (FARD / WAJIB) by the Sunni clerics, eventhough he/she still believed in the (Sunni version) of the Hadith. Just like these poor folks below..
http//www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/05/31/pakistan-massacre-minority-ahmadis -
if a 'good sunni' is one who follows the koran by 'obeying' and 'following' muhammad - help me to understand how anyone can really claim to be a 'good sunni' as we only have snippets of things that muhammad apparently said and did. how about all the things that he said and did that have not been recorded? there are so many hadiths from only one of his wives, aisha. how about khadija, and others? abu huraira followed him around for 2 years but i am sure he wasn't with him 24hrs 7 days - how about the things that muhammad said after or before or when abu huraira wasn't around?
no woman would be considered a 'good sunni' as muhammad was a man. if it is 'sunna' for a man to grow a beard, well how about a woman who also has to 'follow' muhammad? if it is not sunna of the prophet to wear gold, then it is also not sunna of the prophet to be wearing jeans.
it seems 'good sunni' is really a oxymoron if it defines those who follow the hadiths.
Peace,
Respect.Exactly.
I have also come up with a good question.We all are aware that there is a whole "book" of how to perform ablution and it's inside the summorized sahih hadeeth by Bukhary.
What it interests me, is this if all those people wrote down how messenger Muhammad washed his nose, mouth, neck, arms three times, .... how come there is no hadeeth that says that messenger Muhammad one day performed ablution only according to The Qur'an?I always hear about hadeeth which is added to The Qur'an.
I never hear nor read in those hadeeth that messenger Muhammad did something exactly according to The Qur'an.God knows best.
Peace. -
Just because you don't hear it don't mean it don't exist. what's up with the narrow views of others.. chill out people.
Peace,
Respect.You're right, I should leave the definition of a good sunni to a sunni and take care of my own business.
I did hear sunnis define us here on this forum .....Peace.
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Peace,
Respect.You're right, I should leave the definition of a good sunni to a sunni and take care of my own business.
I did hear sunnis define us here on this forum .....Peace.
Salaam,
Does that mean we should join the "let's label and define" game like them? Like Sarah said, chill.
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Peace,
Respect.Exactly.
I have also come up with a good question.We all are aware that there is a whole "book" of how to perform ablution and it's inside the summorized sahih hadeeth by Bukhary.
What it interests me, is this if all those people wrote down how messenger Muhammad washed his nose, mouth, neck, arms three times, .... how come there is no hadeeth that says that messenger Muhammad one day performed ablution only according to The Qur'an?I always hear about hadeeth which is added to The Qur'an.
I never hear nor read in those hadeeth that messenger Muhammad did something exactly according to The Qur'an.God knows best.
Peace.Not only that Alen there are entire books dedicated to what water is considered 'pure' water to do ablution with! I kid you not!
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Peace,
Respect.@ born again, I am chilling, in fact I'm chilling then most people around me and even on this forum. I could actually export chill-factor to others .....
@ Ayisha, I know. The moment I even see the sahih hadeeth by strange men, I become sleepy, more serious then last week.Peace.
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This thread, and ones like it.
Even if you don't agree that it's rife, does it's mere existence on this forum not suggest an irony?
Aha this evening two suni guys told me that one who don?t offer prayers is not a Muslim and one who is not Muslim is not Human, when I asked him how you can prove your statement one of them said go and asked any Mufti. &
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when you point out the fallacy, the contradictions, the flaws in thinking and such, I would not consider that 'sunni bashing'.
i feel sad, i feel angry, i feel frustrated looking at the muslim 'community' if you can call it that - we are supposed to be the best community but look at us. why???? if the majority of the muslims are following the koran, why are we not the best?
so much pain, so much suffering - why? it is because majority of the people decided to set aside the Koran - the essense, the teaching and decided to follow hadiths, scholars, and such.
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when you point out the fallacy, the contradictions, the flaws in thinking and such, I would not consider that 'sunni bashing'.
But threads like this one go beyond that. It extends to ridiculing traditionalists and mocking their supposed lack of intelligence. This thread alone contains views that sunnis are not even Muslims. How is that any different to those sunnis who make takfeer on anything that moves?
i feel sad, i feel angry, i feel frustrated looking at the muslim 'community' if you can call it that - we are supposed to be the best community but look at us. why???? if the majority of the muslims are following the koran, why are we not the best?
so much pain, so much suffering - why? it is because majority of the people decided to set aside the Koran - the essense, the teaching and decided to follow hadiths, scholars, and such.
Traditionalists feel the same pain. They differ in how to solve the problem. What I find ironic is that if you are of the Quran-only understanding, by definition you must believe in pluralism. No two people can understand AQ the same way, so you must leave room for people to find guidance themselves. Yet, we have threads that mock the beliefs of others. That's not pluralism. Not in the Islamic sense anyway.