Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No

WayFinder

Peace WayFinder,

Are you trying to convince us that when we read X AND Y we should automatically infer that Y is included in X. What kind of author would do something like this?

Please provide the translation of the verse 2231 and then we will analyze the truthfulness of your translation.

Peace Guest,

You do not need to translate the whole verse.. Because the keypoint that is being critical in this discussion here is just a pronoun...

anzala=he revealed
AAalaykum =upon you(plural)
mina=from
alkitabi =The Book
wa = and
lhikmati=the wisdom
yaAAithukum = He instrusts you(plural)
bi=with
hi = IT (singular masculine)

The verse tells us the God instructs us through Al-kitaab and Al-Hikmah, which at first sight seems to be 2 separate things... However, when GOD uses a pronoun to refer to these 2(AL-Kitab and Al-Hikmah), He uses a SINGULAR pronoun which is HI... Whereas, if AlKitaab and AlHikmah were 2 separate things, then the pronoun used should be DUAL PLURAL, that is HIMAA to refer to these 2 separate things...

Moreover, there is a clear verse which says that AL-HIKMAH is indeed included in the BOOK. In Sura 17, we are given a clear demonstration of the word ?Al-Hekmah? as being the ability to differentiate between right and wrong and the wisdom to choose what is right. If we read the verses from 22 to 39, we find God commanding us not to worship except Him, to honor our parents, to give due alms to our relatives, the needy, the poor, and the traveling alien but without being extravagant or stingy, not to kill our children for fear of poverty, not to commit adultery, nor to abuse the orphan?s money, to trade equitably and fairly, to verify everything before following it blindly and not to act vainly. After such valuable advice God informs us that these virtues are indeed what wisdom is all about.

Mazhar

You do not need to translate the whole verse.. Because the keypoint that is being critical in this discussion here is just a pronoun...

anzala=he revealed
AAalaykum =upon you(plural)
mina=from
alkitabi =The Book
wa = and
lhikmati=the wisdom
yaAAithukum = He instrusts you(plural)
bi=with
hi = IT (singular masculine)
The verse tells us the God instructs us through Al-kitaab and Al-Hikmah, which at first sight seems to be 2 separate things... However, when GOD uses a pronoun to refer to these 2(AL-Kitab and Al-Hikmah), He uses a SINGULAR pronoun which is HI... Whereas, if AlKitaab and AlHikmah were 2 separate things, then the pronoun used should be DUAL PLURAL, that is HIMAA to refer to these 2 separate things... Wayfinder

Without going into other merits of the proposition that "al hikmate" is contained in the Book, the above grammatical conclusion is certainly incorrect, and is caused by ignoring the Relative Pronoun "Maa" before verb "anzala" "that which He/Allah has sent".

WayFinder

Without going into other merits of the proposition that "al hikmate" is contained in the Book, the above grammatical conclusion is certainly incorrect, and is caused by ignoring the Relative Pronoun "Maa" before verb "anzala" "that which He/Allah has sent".

Thank you... you are right on this one.

guest

yaAAithukum = He instrusts you(plural)

Peace WayFinder,

What is instrust? Did you mean something else. Thanks.

Ayisha

Peace WayFinder,

What is instrust? Did you mean something else. Thanks.

instructs

guest

anzala=he revealed
AAalaykum =upon you(plural)
mina=from
alkitabi =The Book
wa = and
lhikmati=the wisdom
yaAAithukum = He instrusts you(plural)
bi=with
hi = IT (singular masculine)

Peace WayFinder,

The ?with it? refers to the Book like in verse 72. The wisdom is used to fetch correct instructions from the Book. The Book and the wisdom are two separate things. You did not provide adequate rationale to disprove this understanding.

Just to clarify the Book contains wisdom = Wb
To unlock Wb we need wisdom that is not in the Book = Wnb
Therefore, whenever we have ?Book and wisdom? it refers to two different things.
This also explains why some people gets the message and why some people do not get the message. Allah grants Wnb to whoever is seeking it. Then Wnb opens doors for Wb.

72 - This scripture has been revealed to you - you shall not harbor doubt about it in your heart - that you may warn with it, and to provide a reminder for the believers.

WayFinder

Peace WayFinder,

The ?with it? refers to the Book like in verse 72. The wisdom is used to fetch correct instructions from the Book. The Book and the wisdom are two separate things. You did not provide adequate rationale to disprove this understanding.

Just to clarify the Book contains wisdom = Wb
To unlock Wb we need wisdom that is not in the Book = Wnb
Therefore, whenever we have ?Book and wisdom? it refers to two different things.
This also explains why some people gets the message and why some people do not get the message. Allah grants Wnb to whoever is seeking it. Then Wnb opens doors for Wb.

72 - This scripture has been revealed to you - you shall not harbor doubt about it in your heart - that you may warn with it, and to provide a reminder for the believers.

Salam,

1.Where do you get the idea of unlocking?
2. Did you read my post regarding emphasis?

Raaajah

Way Finder

Messengers are NOT SUPPOSED to explain each and everything... They are only supposed to deliver what God has revealed as explanation... Most of God's commandment to them were already known and in practice at that time... The concepts had been delievered gradually over time through revelation.

What you and Ayisha fail to understand is that the Book was not revealed as a book. This was pointed out earlier, that both of you conveniently ignored, in order to undermine the role of Messengers to that of Parrots, which I will not let happen.

Let us see when the first aayts was revealed to Muhammad (PIUH)

Recite in the name of your Lord who created -Created man from a clinging substance-Recite, and your Lord is the most Generous Who taught by the pen -

So when he told this to his closer ones or to public, what do they understood of this?
What is the explanation in it? who will explain it?

Allah answers us in 2129

Off course not every detail of life could possibly be addressed in the Qur?an.

and let us just take another random example from Quran
From Al-Imran
Then whoever argues with you about it after knowledge has come to you - say, "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then supplicate earnestly and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars."

Let us see How will the Arabic teacher explain this as it is already explained according to him? considering that these ayats are just revealed.

and this one

Al-Imran
Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.

Ayisha

Raj, you have failed to answer my simple question on page 3

What do you think Al Hikmah is Raj?

Now you keep insisting I answer your questions at least 3 times, I would appreciate you answering mine just once please.

Ayisha

Raj, do you disagree with the verses that say the book is explained in detail?

If wisdom was to extract from the book, where is this expanation extracted to?

Where is this meaning that was explained from the book that according to you does not contain wisdom and is not fully detailed with every example?

Ayisha

Way Finder
What you and Ayisha fail to understand is that the Book was not revealed as a book. This was pointed out earlier, that both of you conveniently ignored, in order to undermine the role of Messengers to that of Parrots, which I will not let happen.
according to Mazhar it was sent as a complete book on the night of power/decree along with the appearance of the messenger in body form.

No one is trying to undermine anyone, but Allah said Muhammed was the messenger who recited this Quran and was to add nothing else.

Let us see when the first aayts was revealed to Muhammad (PIUH)

Recite in the name of your Lord who created -Created man from a clinging substance-Recite, and your Lord is the most Generous Who taught by the pen -

So when he told this to his closer ones or to public, what do they understood of this?
What is the explanation in it? who will explain it?
so where is Muhmmed's explanation of it?

Allah answers us in 2129
Allah answers this by telling of Abraham asking for a messenger?

Off course not every detail of life could possibly be addressed in the Qur?an.
According to Allah it is fully detailed with every kind of example, for those who think and reflect on its verses and have understanding.

and let us just take another random example from Quran
From Al-Imran
Then whoever argues with you about it after knowledge has come to you - say, "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then supplicate earnestly and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars."

Let us see How will the Arabic teacher explain this as it is already explained according to him? considering that these ayats are just revealed.

and this one

Al-Imran
Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.

So again, where is this explanation if not in the book?

Raaajah

Ayisha

according to Mazhar it was sent as a complete book on the night of power/decree along with the appearance of the messenger in body form.

Let us see how he explains this, I doubt he meant what you are extracting from it?

No one is trying to undermine anyone, but Allah said Muhammed was the messenger who recited this Quran and was to add nothing else.

He is not adding any thing, NO one can. He is just explaining it as Allah told him to do so in 2129.

Ayisha

so where is Muhmmed's explanation of it?

I asked you first!

Ayisha

According to Allah it is fully detailed with every kind of example, for those who think and reflect on its verses and have understanding

You said something else in another thread. Remember? You said you cannot find the Ayats regrading using computers, brushing teeth ETC.
Ayisha

So again, where is this explanation if not in the book?

I asked you first!

Ayisha Please let me Know which Quran do you read more Often, I mean to say translated by Whom? or even if you have an Arabic copy, (sure you have) Just glance to the Surah names and their numbering and verses their order, Does something strikes to your mind?

WayFinder

Peace Raaajah

Let us see when the first aayts was revealed to Muhammad (PIUH)

Recite in the name of your Lord who created -Created man from a clinging substance-Recite, and your Lord is the most Generous Who taught by the pen -

Who told you it was the first verse to be revealed? I do not see any side note along the verses in the quran to determine which one was revealed first.
What to read when they have NOTHING to read?
Why God is then saying that he taught man by the PEN is the same surah??

Whats all this? No Book but still mention of PEN..

Seems fishy

Ayisha

Ayisha
Let us see how he explains this, I doubt he meant what you are extracting from it?
what do you extract from this

97.1 It is a fact that We had descended this Book/Grand Qur'aan in the Night of the Apportionment

He is not adding any thing, NO one can. He is just explaining it as Allah told him to do so in 2129.
If he is not adding anything then he is not adding any explanation and he is reciting it as it came, word for word.

2.129 "Our Lord! send amongst them a Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise."

This is about Abraham, Muhammed wasnt there then

AyishaI asked you first!
No raj, I am saying it IN the book so how can you ask ME where the explanation is OUTSIDE the book. You say its NOT in the book, so where is it?

Ayisha
You said something else in another thread. Remember? You said you cannot find the Ayats regrading using computers, brushing teeth ETC.

lame raj.

every kind of example does not mean everything that man will do in his lifetime including using computers, mobile phones, cars, trains, planes. It means the examples of the WISDOM used in life.

Ayisha
I asked you first!
No Raj, you didnt. YOU are saying there is some other explanation outside of Quran, not me, so where is it?

Ayisha Please let me Know which Quran do you read more Often, I mean to say translated by Whom? or even if you have an Arabic copy, (sure you have) Just glance to the Surah names and their numbering and verses their order, Does something strikes to your mind?

Koran NJ Dawood
Yusef Ali
Pickthall and every other translator on open burhan
Corpus Quran

All have Arabic but not the first one, thats the one I read in bed.

No Raj, what should strike my mind, or do we go on here for another 5 pages and still get no answers?

raj, what do YOU think Hikmah is and WHERE is this explanation that Muhammed explained each ayat?

Please answer these simple questions I have asked MANY times now and don't make it any more obvious that you have no idea what the hell you're on about.

Ayisha

Why am i not surprised Raj ran away again? -\

Raaajah

Way Finder

Who told you it was the first verse to be revealed? I do not see any side note along the verses in the quran to determine which one was revealed first.

Then there might be a first Verse, lets talk about that, or you think there was no first verse.

Way Finder

What to read when they have NOTHING to read?
3. Why God is then saying that he taught man by the PEN is the same surah??

That is for you to analyze? because every thing is explained

WayFinder

Ayisha
Then there might be a first Verse, lets talk about that, or you think there was no first verse.

Speculation is for stock markets... not for quran studies. Since God did not include a chronological index of revelation... I do not have to bother about it as I have better thing to do of what

Raaajah

Way Finder

Speculation is for stock markets... not for quran studies. Since God did not include a chronological index of revelation... I do not have to bother about it as I have better thing to do of what

I thought you were much mature and intelligent then Ayisha, any ways

In which order do you read the Quran? Just jumping from one verse to another of different Surahs, or do you read it in some order?
Now don't try to tell me that it was revealed in the same order from Allah, I am sure you will be not that insane.

Ayisha
I am RAjput, Who never runs, but dies with honor, in battle field or other wise.
Secondly I am not at your wish and command. I have other things to take care about, the time you spend ON INTERNET, creates doubts in my mind, how do you take care of your husband, children, cooking etc.

WayFinder

Way Finder
I thought you were much mature and intelligent then Ayisha, any ways

Maybe not more that Ayisha... But definitely more that you... LOL... thats a joke... I do not consider myself above anyone and I would not like to convey a message.

In which order do you read the Quran? Just jumping from one verse to another of different Surahs, or do you read it in some order?

I rarely read the Quran in a specific order.. Most of the time, when I want to read, I will just open the Book and read where it leads me.. No matter where I read.. it does not change the message... Moreover, most of the time, I am studying the book which is different from general reading.. therefore, I am jumping from verse to verse.. without sticking to a particular surah so that I can gather all the verses which address a particular topic.

Now don't try to tell me that it was revealed in the same order from Allah, I am sure you will be not that insane.

No... The quran was revealed in stages... according to the needs of the current audience of that time... However, as soon as the verse was revealed, its placement in the Book was revealed at the same time... That means, when the 2500th verse was revealed, its placement somewhere in some surah is also revealed with it.. for example the 2500th verse could find its proper place in the first 20 verses of the Book. It is always Allah who did the compilation and arrangement each time he revealed a verse.

Verse 7516-19

7516 Do not move your tongue with it to make haste.
7517 It is for Us to COMPILE/COLLECT (jam3ahu) it and relate it.
7518 So when We relate it, you shall follow its revelation.
7519 Then it is for Us to clarify it.

The verses above give you crucial answers for the following

Who revealed the quran... who collected/compiled/arranged it... who recite it and who explained/clarified it...
The verb Jama3a means to gather collect to combine to compile group to join unite to assemble bring together rally to add add up to compose set
typeset

Take some time and ask Allah to guide you to the best for yourself...

Raaajah

Way Finder

Maybe not more that Ayisha... But definitely more that you... LOL... thats a joke... I do not consider myself above anyone and I would not like to convey a message.

Well you have already conveyed your message, I told you what I think of you and you told me about your thought.

Way Finder

I rarely read the Quran in a specific order.. Most of the time, when I want to read, I will just open the Book and read where it leads me.. No matter where I read.. it does not change the message... Moreover, most of the time, I am studying the book which is different from general reading.. therefore, I am jumping from verse to verse.. without sticking to a particular surah so that I can gather all the verses which address a particular topic.

You just said that Quran is in the order as Allah has placed it and now you tell me You don't read it in Allah's order, why?
Did Allah not knew it was easier if the Quran was revealed Topic wise? and you have not to jump from verse to verse.
Give me a practical example for it?

Way Finder

No... The quran was revealed in stages... according to the needs of the current audience of that time... However, as soon as the verse was revealed, its placement in the Book was revealed at the same time...

Do you understand what you just wrote above?

Quran was revealed in stages you agree and then you say as soon the verse was revealed its placement was revealed,
The Quran took many years to be revealed, this means according to you verses were revealed in chronological order as they are in Quran now? Is that what you are saying?

The difference between Verse 1 and verse 2500 hundred would be in years. In those times who explained the Verses of Quran? as the people at that time could not Jump from one verse to another, searching topic wise as you can do, to find out what Allah means.