Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No
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Ayisha
Then there might be a first Verse, lets talk about that, or you think there was no first verse.Speculation is for stock markets... not for quran studies. Since God did not include a chronological index of revelation... I do not have to bother about it as I have better thing to do of what
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Way Finder
Speculation is for stock markets... not for quran studies. Since God did not include a chronological index of revelation... I do not have to bother about it as I have better thing to do of what
I thought you were much mature and intelligent then Ayisha, any ways
In which order do you read the Quran? Just jumping from one verse to another of different Surahs, or do you read it in some order?
Now don't try to tell me that it was revealed in the same order from Allah, I am sure you will be not that insane.Ayisha
I am RAjput, Who never runs, but dies with honor, in battle field or other wise.
Secondly I am not at your wish and command. I have other things to take care about, the time you spend ON INTERNET, creates doubts in my mind, how do you take care of your husband, children, cooking etc. -
Way Finder
I thought you were much mature and intelligent then Ayisha, any waysMaybe not more that Ayisha... But definitely more that you... LOL... thats a joke... I do not consider myself above anyone and I would not like to convey a message.
In which order do you read the Quran? Just jumping from one verse to another of different Surahs, or do you read it in some order?
I rarely read the Quran in a specific order.. Most of the time, when I want to read, I will just open the Book and read where it leads me.. No matter where I read.. it does not change the message... Moreover, most of the time, I am studying the book which is different from general reading.. therefore, I am jumping from verse to verse.. without sticking to a particular surah so that I can gather all the verses which address a particular topic.
Now don't try to tell me that it was revealed in the same order from Allah, I am sure you will be not that insane.
No... The quran was revealed in stages... according to the needs of the current audience of that time... However, as soon as the verse was revealed, its placement in the Book was revealed at the same time... That means, when the 2500th verse was revealed, its placement somewhere in some surah is also revealed with it.. for example the 2500th verse could find its proper place in the first 20 verses of the Book. It is always Allah who did the compilation and arrangement each time he revealed a verse.
Verse 7516-19
7516 Do not move your tongue with it to make haste.
7517 It is for Us to COMPILE/COLLECT (jam3ahu) it and relate it.
7518 So when We relate it, you shall follow its revelation.
7519 Then it is for Us to clarify it.The verses above give you crucial answers for the following
Who revealed the quran... who collected/compiled/arranged it... who recite it and who explained/clarified it...
The verb Jama3a means to gather collect to combine to compile group to join unite to assemble bring together rally to add add up to compose set
typesetTake some time and ask Allah to guide you to the best for yourself...
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Way Finder
Maybe not more that Ayisha... But definitely more that you... LOL... thats a joke... I do not consider myself above anyone and I would not like to convey a message.
Well you have already conveyed your message, I told you what I think of you and you told me about your thought.
Way Finder
I rarely read the Quran in a specific order.. Most of the time, when I want to read, I will just open the Book and read where it leads me.. No matter where I read.. it does not change the message... Moreover, most of the time, I am studying the book which is different from general reading.. therefore, I am jumping from verse to verse.. without sticking to a particular surah so that I can gather all the verses which address a particular topic.
You just said that Quran is in the order as Allah has placed it and now you tell me You don't read it in Allah's order, why?
Did Allah not knew it was easier if the Quran was revealed Topic wise? and you have not to jump from verse to verse.
Give me a practical example for it?Way Finder
No... The quran was revealed in stages... according to the needs of the current audience of that time... However, as soon as the verse was revealed, its placement in the Book was revealed at the same time...
Do you understand what you just wrote above?
Quran was revealed in stages you agree and then you say as soon the verse was revealed its placement was revealed,
The Quran took many years to be revealed, this means according to you verses were revealed in chronological order as they are in Quran now? Is that what you are saying?The difference between Verse 1 and verse 2500 hundred would be in years. In those times who explained the Verses of Quran? as the people at that time could not Jump from one verse to another, searching topic wise as you can do, to find out what Allah means.
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Way Finder
Well you have already conveyed your message, I told you what I think of you and you told me about your thought.I should have kept this joke for myself... P
Way Finder
You just said that Quran is in the order as Allah has placed itYes... and I never at any point stated it to be otherwise... As far as the arrangement of the Surahs/verses are concerned
and now you tell me You don't read it in Allah's order, why?
Let me tell you that you just misunderstood the whole thing... Of course if I need to recite the Book from A to Z, I would read it in its present order... the same order God's has arranged it...
However, I specifically made it clear that I do not read the Quran as such... that is from A to Z... Because more of the time I am researching through it, therefore I jump from verse to verse and Surah to Surah... this has nothing to do with the established arrangement/order of the Quran... this is just the way I use the Quran for my research... So, do not try to confuse everything here.
Did Allah not knew it was easier if the Quran was revealed Topic wise?
Maybe you could ask Him that question directly... He would be in a better position to answer you as the author of the Book. In the Quran, several mechanisms has been used to promote research and learning... But the Book remain a close Book for many who chose to view it as such.
and you have not to jump from verse to verse.
Give me a practical example for it?The rulings for Jihaad is an excellent example. It is spread across several verses in different surahs. This is why you have to 'jump' .. this is the way the Book explain itself.
Way Finder
Do you understand what you just wrote above?Definitely, otherwise i would not be writing it in the first place
Quran was revealed in stages you agree and then you say as soon the verse was revealed its placement was revealed
I also said 'at the same time'... look at the example again.
The Quran took many years to be revealed, this means according to you verses were revealed in chronological order as they are in Quran now? Is that what you are saying?
No... the verses were revealed according to their own circumstances and needs of the audience... but as soon as it was revealed, the messenger also ordered where to write the verse in the list of already revealed verses. A verse being revealed the 2500th position does not mean it will be written in the 2500th position... It might be written at the 15th position for example... this is how the arrangement was being carried out gradually as well.
The difference between Verse 1 and verse 2500 hundred would be in years.
Does not affect anything at all..
In those times who explained the Verses of Quran? as the people at that time could not Jump from one verse to another, searching topic wise as you can do, to find out what Allah means.
If explanation was needed, they were asked to the messenger... then God brings the explanation which he delivered.
Seems you are also having problems understanding the methodology involved in the revelation, arrangement and compilation of the Book... Rest assured, you are not the only one... Some from among the Messenger audience also suffered the same problem.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.106a.gif
We do not change the place of ayah or leave guarding it until We bring there/that place one better suited there than her or similar to that. are indeed a fabricator"-Read 16101]read with 16101
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/016.%20A5.gifAnd when We change the place/location of an Ayah with the place/location of another Ayah,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/016.%20A6.gif
and Allah is well aware of what He has gradually revealed; , on replacement of location of an Ayah with the location of another Ayah they say alleging "You are indeed a fabricator".
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/Temp%2001%2016.101b.gif
No, you have not substituted the locations/fabricated, the fact of the matter is that most of them do not know . -
Way Finder
I thought you were much mature and intelligent then Ayisha, any waysIn which order do you read the Quran? Just jumping from one verse to another of different Surahs, or do you read it in some order?
Now don't try to tell me that it was revealed in the same order from Allah, I am sure you will be not that insane.more waffle and questions to again avoid answering any
Ayisha
I am RAjput, Who never runs, but dies with honor, in battle field or other wise.
you run at every question RAJ! You NEVER answer any, you die with dishonour in every battleSecondly I am not at your wish and command. I have other things to take care about, the time you spend ON INTERNET, creates doubts in my mind, how do you take care of your husband, children, cooking etc.
YOU demand answers from me even when they have been answered a few times, you have done this more than once or twice. When YOU are asked a question you avoid it then run.
The time I spend ON the INTERNET is not your business and neither are my kids, my husband or my cooking and this is again avoidance of the questions I asked. The time you spend running from questions creates doubts in my mind that you know anything at all about things you are talking about.
Now answer the questions I have been asking the last few days please, or will you run again?
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No... the verses were revealed according to their own circumstances and needs of the audience... but as soon as it was revealed, the messenger also ordered where to write the verse in the list of already revealed verses. A verse being revealed the 2500th position does not mean it will be written in the 2500th position... It might be written at the 15th position for example... this is how the arrangement was being carried out gradually as well.
Therefore it is very clear that Messenger was the one who was explaining the Ayats to the audience, because they were revealed according to need and circumstances of audiences in pieces.
You may Like to tell us what were circumstances and what is the meaning of this Ayat? considering it was revealed at that time before Quran was Finalized, collected and Compiled.
al-Imran
Then whoever argues with you about it after knowledge has come to you - say, "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then supplicate earnestly and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars."and the other verse I quoted in previous post.
Regarding verses of Surah 75
7516 Do not move your tongue with it to make haste.
7517 It is for Us to COMPILE/COLLECT (jam3ahu) it and relate it.
7518 So when We relate it, you shall follow its revelation.
7519 Then it is for Us to clarify it.According to your understanding these verses were not the last verses of Quran neither were they the earliest, if it is telling Messenger to hold his tongue as you are presuming then it makes no SENSE at all.
It says to Messenger Allah is the one responsible for collecting and compiling the Quran, and every one knows that Allah did not came to earth to collect and compile it, Companions of Messenger and the Messenger did it, similarly Allah did not came to earth to explain the audience, he gave the Messenger the Wisdom, through which he understood the Message and forwarded it.
By degrees shall We teach thee to declare, so thou shalt not forget, Except as God wills For He knoweth what is manifest and what is hidden
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Posted on September 4,2010
Thanks Guest and Siki,
So siki. what is that Wisdom, which was given to Messenger of Allah along with Scripture and how can we use it now?Posted on August 31,2010
GuestWhat is this Wisdom?
Ayisha
So will you stop babbling now. -
Therefore it is very clear that Messenger was the one who was explaining the Ayats to the audience, because they were revealed according to need and circumstances of audiences in pieces.
this is ignoring all verses when Allah says He is the one that explains itYou may Like to tell us what were circumstances and what is the meaning of this Ayat? considering it was revealed at that time before Quran was Finalized, collected and Compiled.
al-Imran
Then whoever argues with you about it after knowledge has come to you - say, "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then supplicate earnestly and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars."and the other verse I quoted in previous post.
Regarding verses of Surah 75
7516 Do not move your tongue with it to make haste.
7517 It is for Us to COMPILE/COLLECT (jam3ahu) it and relate it.
7518 So when We relate it, you shall follow its revelation.
7519 Then it is for Us to clarify it.According to your understanding these verses were not the last verses of Quran neither were they the earliest, if it is telling Messenger to hold his tongue as you are presuming then it makes no SENSE at all.
It says to Messenger Allah is the one responsible for collecting and compiling the Quran, and every one knows that Allah did not came to earth to collect and compile it, Companions of Messenger and the Messenger did it, similarly Allah did not came to earth to explain the audience, he gave the Messenger the Wisdom, through which he understood the Message and forwarded it.
By degrees shall We teach thee to declare, so thou shalt not forget, Except as God wills For He knoweth what is manifest and what is hidden
your babble has no base Raj. Allah says He is the one explaining it and collecting it and compiling it and you say "Allah did not came to earth to collect and compile it" so how was the message itself revealed Raj? through email perhaps? a few phone calls? How did this message GET here in the first place if Allah had nothing to do with it at all according to your ramblings? You think He sent a message then left it to be sorted by humans when He clearly says IN that message that it is up to HIM to explain it and compile it?
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Therefore it is very clear that Messenger was the one who was explaining the Ayats to the audience, because they were revealed according to need and circumstances of audiences in pieces.
Pheew... I said, the messenger delivered the explanation... I wonder why you pick and choose from my replies... Anyways, your question has been answered in my post on the use of 'perception/point of view' in the quran... please review it...
You may Like to tell us what were circumstances and what is the meaning of this Ayat? considering it was revealed at that time before Quran was Finalized, collected and Compiled.
The circumstances were specific to the time of these people... it is not needed anymore here.. for example, when the people embarassed the prophet by seeking vain talk with him each time they came to visit him... A verse was revealed to this effect... and what was being required for them at that particular time was being delivered to them... There are dozens of verses starting with .. What matters is the final arrangement of the verses... not the circumstance on which they were revealed... Moreover, it is us USELESS for you to speak regarding circumstance of revelation because YOU DO NOT HAVE the circumstance of revelation for each and every of the 6200 verses of the Quran... So why are you bothering about it unless you had all of them in your possession... Most of the time, you will just get this note
According to your understanding these verses were not the last verses of Quran neither were they the earliest, if it is telling Messenger to hold his tongue as you are presuming then it makes no SENSE at all.
This is your assumption.. I did not tell ANYTHING regarding the position of this verse as well as its revelation... this is beyond my knowledge.. as I told you... I have no idea which came first or which came last... Allah knows best... If He has not included the chronological index in the quran... then there is a DIVINE reason for this.
It says to Messenger Allah is the one responsible for collecting and compiling the Quran, and every one knows that Allah did not came to earth to collect and compile it, Companions of Messenger and the Messenger did it, similarly Allah did not came to earth to explain the audience, he gave the Messenger the Wisdom, through which he understood the Message and forwarded it.
Indeed... Allah uses a mechanism to achieve what He aims to. Regarding explanation, refer back to my post on perception.. I would not like repeating again.
Peace
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@Rajaaah
I am taking patience in hand to deal correctly with you.. and i would not like you to pick and choose from my replies.. You should not throw blind eye on the replies which are true... and just pick some part of it and make a story... For example, you asked me why do I need to jump from verse to verse and give you example from quran which I did... but what happens after that? Should you remain silent after I gave you what you asked for? The best you could do was to acknowledge as it makes sense or to tell me where you disagree about it if ever you disagree.. but playing the blind.. I do not like that... Moreover, God also do not like this .. And this is the exact reason why there will be many people who will be resurrected as blind and these people would complain about them being blind... as they used to see on earth... This is because they pretended to be blind when clear verses were presented to them.
Anyways, just an advice... if the attitude continues... I would not bother answering you anymore...
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Take some time and ask Allah to guide you to the best for yourself...
Peace WayFinder,
With this statement aren?t you talking about wisdom that is outside the Book? In fact, this is the wisdom (Wnb) that is necessary to acquire wisdom of the Book. Otherwise, you would have said read the Book and you are guaranteed the wisdom (correcr understanding), no matter what.
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Peace WayFinder,
With this statement aren?t you talking about wisdom that is outside the Book? In fact, this is the wisdom (Wnb) that is necessary to acquire wisdom of the Book. Otherwise, you would have said read the Book and you are guaranteed the wisdom (correcr understanding), no matter what.
No way... I am talking about guidance... wisdom is something else.
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Peace WayFinder,
With this statement aren?t you talking about wisdom that is outside the Book? In fact, this is the wisdom (Wnb) that is necessary to acquire wisdom of the Book. Otherwise, you would have said read the Book and you are guaranteed the wisdom (correcr understanding), no matter what.
22.46 Do they not travel through the land, so that their hearts (and minds) may thus learn wisdom and their ears may thus learn to hear? Truly it is not their eyes that are blind, but their hearts which are in their breasts.
22.47 Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But Allah will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoningNo one has said anywhere that there is no wisdom outside the book!
The verses explain there is wisdom IN the book and those with wisdom can understand the bookMy repeated and still unanswered question is, where is the explanation that the messenger gave of the verses?
The ones claiming this are the ones ignoring the verses that say the book is full of wisdom and that Allah has explained it. Yes it takes wisdom to understand it as it should be, but Allah grants that wisdom to whom He pleases and YES the messangers all were granted wisdom, no one has said otherwise.
Once one has the wisdom to understand the verses, does it change the verses in any way? Would an explanation of someone else be any better than the explanation of Allah? Of course not!
No, reading the book does not guarantee getting wisdom to understand it otherwise anyone that reads it will have the wisdom to understand it, which they obviously do not. There were obviously many around at the time that didnt understand it and even if the meaning was related to them in a thousand ways they still never would and there were those that heard and understood, because they were wise.
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In which order do you read the Quran? Just jumping from one verse to another of different Surahs, or do you read it in some order?
RaaajahI rarely read the Quran in a specific order.. Most of the time, when I want to read, I will just open the Book and read where it leads me.. No matter where I read.. it does not change the message... Moreover, most of the time, I am studying the book which is different from general reading.. therefore, I am jumping from verse to verse.. without sticking to a particular surah so that I can gather all the verses which address a particular topic.
WayfinderGrand Qur'aan must be read/recited in the order it has been sequenced and compiled by Allah through His Messenger for the posterity. Only by that sequence one will get the explanation of each and every word and statement and ultimately the wisdom. And this is how the knowledge is acquired from any book. For any word and concept, compile all statements in the sequence they are mentioned in Qur'aan, and one will comrehensively understand that word and concept.
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No one has said anywhere that there is no wisdom outside the book!
Peace Ayisha,
Do you then accept that Scripture and wisdom are separate things, when Allah says ?scripture and wisdom?? This is such a simple, clear, unambiguous sentence but unfortunately many do not get it.
The ones claiming this are the ones ignoring the verses that say the book is full of wisdom and that Allah has explained it.
This understanding contradicts the verse that says Allah is the teacher of the Quran
Yes it takes wisdom to understand it as it should be, but Allah grants that wisdom to whom He pleases and YES the messangers all were granted wisdom, no one has said otherwise.
I agree.
Once one has the wisdom to understand the verses, does it change the verses in any way? Would an explanation of someone else be any better than the explanation of Allah? Of course not!
No, the verse does not change! Only your understanding of the verse changes i.e. you have correct understanding of the verse. There is no better, only correct or incorrect. Beware of the compromiser!
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Allah says He is the one explaining it and collecting it and compiling it and you say "Allah did not came to earth to collect and compile it" so how was the message itself revealed Raj? through email perhaps? a few phone calls? How did this message GET here in the first place if Allah had nothing to do with it at all according to your ramblings? You think He sent a message then left it to be sorted by humans when He clearly says IN that message that it is up to HIM to explain it and compile it?
Message was revealed via a Messenger (and his name happened to be "Jabraeel" to Muhammad Peace is upon him, if some one does not know this basic, she can only be Ayisha.
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Way Finder
The circumstances were specific to the time of these people... it is not needed anymore here.. for example, when the people embarassed the prophet by seeking vain talk with him each time they came to visit him... A verse was revealed to this effect...
How do you know? which Ayat tells you that this is for particular time, and other one is for future. i don't want to be harsh but you are just talking non sense. How do you know that the Ayat I am talking about was for that time only?
Way Finder
This is your assumption.. I did not tell ANYTHING regarding the position of this verse as well as its revelation... this is beyond my knowledge..
Now you are cheating as well, you said if an ayat was revealed at # 2500, it was placed at the place as it had to be because Allah finalized the order, and Surah 75 is almost in middle of the present order, which was the order of Allah, according to you.
You said thisA verse being revealed the 2500th position does not mean it will be written in the 2500th position... It might be written at the 15th position for example... this is how the arrangement was being carried out gradually as well.
the verses were revealed according to their own circumstances and needs of the audience... but as soon as it was revealed, the messenger also ordered where to write the verse in the list of already revealed verses. A verse being revealed the 2500th position does not mean it will be written in the 2500th position... It might be written at the 15th position for example..
Way Finder
Anyways, just an advice... if the attitude continues... I would not bother answering you anymore..
and from me it is over now, until you don't explain the above.