Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No

Ayisha

So you announce that you had not me in mind as 2 while saying this

I have not announced anything, you make the announcements based on what you misunderstand and with your guilt you claimed I said that you had said something which I didnt and you didnt. hypno

Mazhar

O kay, however, people have eyes also to see for themselves.

Ayisha

O kay, however, people have eyes also to see for themselves.

yay something we agree on! bravo

Raaajah

Ayisha

Sense and logic are not something one would link with Raj or Mazhar though, particularly Raj

Look who is saying that rotfl

Can you quote where I have said this even for once that the Messenger of Allah explained anything himself from verses aside from the Wisdom provided from Allah?
You are a Liar!

Mazhar

If not will you have moral courage to take the above allegation back?

Moral courage and Ayisha are two separate things, as are Al-Hikmah and Al-Kitab.

Raaajah

Way Finder

Did you just invented this? Why do you make such baseless claims... Ar-Rahmaan as a name existed from pre-islamic times... it is even ENGRAVED in stone in an inscription known as the inscription of Abraha... Do your research before making claims. I will see whether you would be blind on this one in your next reply to me.

Way Finder I think before making big claims, we should check what others wrote.
Did I said that the name Ar-Rehman not existed in pre-Islamic times? show me if I had? I said the audience of Muhammad was not well aware of it.

according to Brett Marlowe Stortroen word "Rahmanan" appears in pre-Islamic inscriptions from South Arabia.
It is not Rahmaan.
They audience were surprised why to use name Rehmaan, for the reason i mentioned above,
also even if they knew this name they were not accepting it to be used by Muhammad peace is upon him, as they thought it was a different God Muhammad is talking about in Quran. Therefore Muhammad peace is upon him Explained to them.

Ayisha

Can you quote where I have said this even for once that the Messenger of Allah explained anything himself from verses aside from the Wisdom provided from Allah?
You are a Liar!

No Raj you are a liar

I said "that there was explanation done by the prophet himself aside from the explained verses from Allah."

your post on page 3
"Prophet Muhammad Peace is upon him only spoke exact words of the Quran? How would he explain it then? he would probably have to use other words which weren't exact words of the Quran, therefore for sure Al-Kitab and Al-Hikmah are two separate things.

You can only have two choice

The Prophet only read the verbatim text of the Qur'an as it was revealed without explaining it,
The Prophet read the verbatim text of the Qur'an and also explained it."

another post on page 3
"So you think Allah explained it by himself? or he gave Prophet the Wisdom to explain it?"

page 4
"Allah does not come down to earth like JESUS CHRIST to explain each and every thing, he sends Messengers with his Message and gives them WISDOM to explain it. "

I said "But Allah says HE has explained it IN the Book itself "

you said "Come on Ayisha I can give you various examples from just this site, let leave the Ummah, where there has been no consensus after debating whole 40 pages.
Allah sent the Quran, he send the Messengers with wisdom to explain them, and we also require Wisdom to understand it."

I said "BOOK is full of Wisdom."

you said "Yes, but it requires Wisdom to extract from it. Allah did not came to earth to explain anything, neither was it in BOOK shape, it was revealed step by step in many years bit by bit, and every bit needed explanation, which was done by the Messenger. They did not had intelligent people like you Ayisha that time who, could understand the Quran from Quran itself, in case when it was not revealed as a Whole."

I asked the question that is still unanswered "so where has it been extracted to?"

So you see no one has said that Muhammed did not have Wisdom but you have disagreed that ALLAH explained it IN the book and have insisted that Muhammed FURTHER EXPLAINED the fully explained verses as you disbelieve Allah when He said HE has fully explained them IN the book. muscle

Ayisha

Way Finder
Way Finder I think before making big claims, we should check what others wrote.
Did I said that the name Ar-Rehman not existed in pre-Islamic times? show me if I had? I said the audience of Muhammad was not well aware of it.

according to Brett Marlowe Stortroen word "Rahmanan" appears in pre-Islamic inscriptions from South Arabia.
It is not Rahmaan.
They audience were surprised why to use name Rehmaan, for the reason i mentioned above,
also even if they knew this name they were not accepting it to be used by Muhammad peace is upon him, as they thought it was a different God Muhammad is talking about in Quran. Therefore Muhammad peace is upon him Explained to them.

So where is this explanation raj?

Raaajah

Ayisha

So you see no one has said that Muhammed did not have Wisdom but you have disagreed that ALLAH explained it IN the book and have insisted that Muhammed FURTHER EXPLAINED the fully explained verses as you disbelieve Allah when He said HE has fully explained them IN the book.

He has fully explained them in Book for those whom he have bestowed the Wisdom, to the Messengers and Messengers will further explain it to audience.

Rajah

Can you quote where I have said this even for once that the Messenger of Allah explained anything himself from verses aside from the Wisdom provided from Allah?

Ayisha you are just behaving like a kid,
There are lot of verses which cannot be understood without Wisdom.

Let us consider verses about Ramadan? are you not having a debate on this very forum that it should be of 10 days, 30 Days etc.
Let Us consider Salat? is there not a debate here on this forum and many other forums, weather they are 2, 3, 5 or even if there is No Salat at all.

Come out of your fancy world, world of theories and lies, live in a practical life.

Raaajah

Ayisha

So where is this explanation raj?

Way Finder
Way Finder I think before making big claims, we should check what others wrote.
Did I said that the name Ar-Rehman not existed in pre-Islamic times? show me if I had? I said the audience of Muhammad was not well aware of it.

according to Brett Marlowe Stortroen word "Rahmanan" appears in pre-Islamic inscriptions from South Arabia.
It is not Rahmaan.
They audience were surprised why to use name Rehmaan, for the reason i mentioned above,
also even if they knew this name they were not accepting it to be used by Muhammad peace is upon him, as they thought it was a different God Muhammad is talking about in Quran. Therefore Muhammad peace is upon him Explained to them.

Are you Way Finder? let him answer first.

Ayisha

He has fully explained them in Book for those whom he have bestowed the Wisdom, to the Messengers and Messengers will further explain it to audience.
so where are these explanations Raj?

How many times is that now i have asked this and it is still not answered? cant you answer a simple question based on what you have been claiming for, is it 7 pages now?

Ayisha you are just behaving like a kid,
There are lot of verses which cannot be understood without Wisdom.

So where are the explanations Raj? you are the one behaving like a child insisting on things you refuse to back up. I have backed up everything I have said and I have answered all questions asked.

Let us consider verses about Ramadan? are you not having a debate on this very forum that it should be of 10 days, 30 Days etc.
Am I? sorry i wasnt aware I have said anything like that, please quote it and post the link so i can see, then I can answer this

Let Us consider Salat? is there not a debate here on this forum and many other forums, weather they are 2, 3, 5 or even if there is No Salat at all.
there probably is, but again I have not been involved in them either

Come out of your fancy world, world of theories and lies, live in a practical life.

You are the one in a fantasy world with theories and lies you can never back up when asked. I am actually fine in the real world believing in what Allah says in Quran, and when He says He has fully explained them I believe Him, not you who claims He cannot explain them and needs a messenger to do that for Him.

Ayisha

Ayisha
Are you Way Finder? let him answer first.

Again? rotfl so typical

goodnight raj laugh

Raaajah

Ayisha

Am I? sorry i wasnt aware I have said anything like that, please quote it and post the link so i can see, then I can answer this

You does not explicitly mean You here, it means many of us.

ayisha

there probably is, but again I have not been involved in them either

answered above.

The above of your quotes still tell that you are feeling sleepy, and acting childishly

So how many days you fast?
How many times you pray daily?

Just don't answer me, if you don't like answer yourself and then analyze where do you get those answers, if from Quran, please let us Know.

Ayisha

so where are these explanations Raj?

So if it is your admittance that we cannot understand it on our own, until Wisdom of Allah is not with us. I provide you the explanations, that are available.

It is Good Morning here ignore

WayFinder

Way Finder
Way Finder I think before making big claims, we should check what others wrote.
Did I said that the name Ar-Rehman not existed in pre-Islamic times? show me if I had? I said the audience of Muhammad was not well aware of it.

according to Brett Marlowe Stortroen word "Rahmanan" appears in pre-Islamic inscriptions from South Arabia.
It is not Rahmaan.
They audience were surprised why to use name Rehmaan, for the reason i mentioned above,
also even if they knew this name they were not accepting it to be used by Muhammad peace is upon him, as they thought it was a different God Muhammad is talking about in Quran. Therefore Muhammad peace is upon him Explained to them.

This is pure conjecture... The inscription is clearly written in ancient arabic therefore it was common to the arabs... Similar to the name Allah itself... Arabs knew all these... the problem was their focus... and association to these names... this is what Muhammad came to change and rectify. The name Ar-Rahman is even present is some pre-islamic poetry in sabaen. Moreover, the name was also very well known among the people of the Book. So just because one or two men seems to believe it otherwise does not change this fact. From the inscription itself... It suggests that Ar-Rahman was even a deity in the pre-islamic arabia since the writing has been made in the name of Ar-Rahman.

So spare us with bogus claims and conjecture.

Ayisha

Let us consider verses about Ramadan? are you not having a debate on this very forum that it should be of 10 days, 30 Days etc.

Am I? sorry i wasnt aware I have said anything like that, please quote it and post the link so i can see, then I can answer this

You does not explicitly mean You here, it means many of us.

Then why are you asking me specifically?

ayishaanswered above.
this is not specific to me, the above was.

The above of your quotes still tell that you are feeling sleepy, and acting childishly
your confusion as to what you asked me specifically tells me you are confused.

So how many days you fast?
How many times you pray daily?
Is that your business?

Just don't answer me, if you don't like answer yourself and then analyze where do you get those answers, if from Quran, please let us Know.
Yes it's from Quran, where do you get yours from?

Ayisha = so where are these explanations Raj?

So if it is your admittance that we cannot understand it on our own, until Wisdom of Allah is not with us. I provide you the explanations, that are available.
Where have I admitted anything and where have you provided any available explanations? Is that in another book too? So you still have not answered my simple question and obviously CANNOT.

It is Good Morning here ignore
Yes it is here too, that was about 4am, I am up again for fajr and its now 5.48am, having trouble sleeping tonight, too hot.

guest

Peace

In case you are right... Then I would say that this wisdom cannot be transmitted from one person to another... And again... I always attach hikmah to its root meaning as well as other related words such as hukm(law),haakim(judge) etc which has to do with legislation... Therefore, Hikmah, if taken from your perspective could mean 'sound judgement' and this as I think it is, cannot be transmitted... But can be bestowed only from God.

Peace WayFinder,

The wisdom itself cannot be transmitted but the implementation of the wisdom can be transmitted. For example, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) implementation of Allah?s system on earth can be transmitted. In fact, this is what has happened after he died. Then the system got corrupted by satanic influence. One example of transmission is five times salat during a day, the timing, and the reestablishment of correct way of performing salat. We still follow his implementation of salat. Correct implementation based on his wisdom. Another example is lunar calendar for Ramadan, 30 days fasting, breaking fast right after sunset??.

guest

@Rajaah and others

Why have most of you disregarded the fact that HIKMAH(from ha-kaf-meem) is more related to legislation, hence the word hukm(law),haakim(judge),hakeem(wise) etc... This has nothing to do with explaining!

Ha-Kaf-Miim = To restrain from, exercise authority, command, give judgment, judge, be wise. To restrain/prevent/withhold a person from acting in an evil or corrupt manner, to judge or give judgement, pass sentence, decide judicially, exercise judicial authority/jurisdiction/rule/dominion/government, order or ordain or decree a thing, to be wise, to be sound in judgement, possess knowledge or science and wisdom, render a thing firm/stable/sound/free from defect or imperfection by the exercise of skill.

So why I am always seeing hikmah linked with explanation?? This does not make any sense.

Peace WayFinder,

Wisdom is all inclusive. It is legislation as well as explanation and more. Please seek wisdom from Allah for correct understanding and do not rely on dictionary only.

guest

so WHERE is the explanation of the verses to give us a CORRECT understanding?

This is what Raj cannot answer, can you?

Peace Ayisha,

Here is some example of correct understanding of verses

Preservation five daily salat time, way to conduct them, ?.
Ramadan ~30 days fasting, breakfast right after sunset,?..
Hajj when to perform them and how
Pre-wash for salat
Salat during war
And many more

The correct understanding has been preserved for us. We do them just the way Prophet Muhammad did them.

WayFinder

Peace WayFinder,

Wisdom is all inclusive. It is legislation as well as explanation and more. Please seek wisdom from Allah for correct understanding and do not rely on dictionary only.

I am quite sure you are mixing knowledge with wisdom... hikmah as i said has no relation at all with explanation but legislation... wisdom in our case would mean sound judgement regarding legal aspects/judgement for the people... and as you said yourself.. this cannot be transmitted... this is bestowed... for example a few man came to messenger to settle a dispute... According to his sound judgement, he judge between them correctly.. none would be able to replicate this... it was according to his own judgement... and the criterias upon which he based his judgement remains unknown...

Moreover, in Quran.. we see hikmah also alongside with MULK (kingdom) which against point us towards legislation and establishing/managing a society through sound judgement... The correct understanding according to me for the Hikmah is sound judgement with clairvoyance*. Again, this hikmah cannot be copied.. it is God given.

Most of the things you mentioned above such as fasting, salah etc has nothing to do with legislation... But rather you are pointing me towards explanation/detailment. And this is not hikmah as it has strayed from the root meaning.

*1. (noun) clairvoyance, second sight, extrasensory perception, E.S.P., ESP
apparent power to perceive things that are not present to the senses
Synonyms second sight, clairvoyance, extrasensory perception

guest

I am quite sure you are mixing knowledge with wisdom... hikmah as i said has no relation at all with explanation but legislation... wisdom in our case would mean sound judgement regarding legal aspects/judgement for the people... and as you said yourself.. this cannot be transmitted... this is bestowed... for example a few man came to messenger to settle a dispute... According to his sound judgement, he judge between them correctly.. none would be able to replicate this... it was according to his own judgement... and the criterias upon which he based his judgement remains unknown...

Moreover, in Quran.. we see hikmah also alongside with MULK (kingdom) which against point us towards legislation and establishing/managing a society through sound judgement... The correct understanding according to me for the Hikmah is sound judgement with clairvoyance*. Again, this hikmah cannot be copied.. it is God given.

Most of the things you mentioned above such as fasting, salah etc has nothing to do with legislation... But rather you are pointing me towards explanation/detailment. And this is not hikmah as it has strayed from the root meaning.

*1. (noun) clairvoyance, second sight, extrasensory perception, E.S.P., ESP
apparent power to perceive things that are not present to the senses
Synonyms second sight, clairvoyance, extrasensory perception

Peace WayFinder,

With your view how do you explain the following two verses

3112 - We have endowed Luqm?n with wisdom "You shall be appreciative of GOD." Whoever is appreciative is appreciative for his own good. As for those who turn unappreciative, GOD is in no need, Praiseworthy.

1739 - This is some of the wisdom inspired to you by your Lord. You shall not set up another god beside GOD, lest you end up in Gehenna, blamed and defeated.

WayFinder

Peace WayFinder,

With your view how do you explain the following two verses

3112 - We have endowed Luqm?n with wisdom "You shall be appreciative of GOD." Whoever is appreciative is appreciative for his own good. As for those who turn unappreciative, GOD is in no need, Praiseworthy.

1739 - This is some of the wisdom inspired to you by your Lord. You shall not set up another god beside GOD, lest you end up in Gehenna, blamed and defeated.

I do not see any contradiction between these verses and what I said.. Infact, to be appreciative and thankful is also clairvoyance.. Every wise person would recognise this...

As for 1739, the hikmah in question is being detailed in the verses above it and 1739 is concluding the list. All of which are talking about sound judgement....

Maybe... if I say the right mindset one has to develop... This is the hikmah as presented in the Book.